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Report URGES limiting of PAYE for rich doctors, lawyers
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Date: June 12th, 2013 2:45 PM Author: obsidian razzle-dazzle national security agency locus http://chronicle.com/article/Obamas-Loan-Repayment-Plan/135144/
"If left unchanged," the report says, "the program is set to provide huge financial windfalls to people who, far from being needy, are among the most financially well-off graduates in today's job market."
"We don't think this program is going to do what it was intended to do," Mr. Holt said. "This is a back-loaded benefit, and it's helping people who are most able to pay. The question we need to ask is whether this is how we want the government appropriating money."
"You've essentially created," Mr. Delisle said, "what is basically a risk-free proposition" for students wanting to take out huge loans to attend expensive graduate programs. |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 2:49 PM Author: Embarrassed to the bone massive tattoo This shit needs to be all or nothing.
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Date: June 12th, 2013 2:51 PM Author: Chocolate Contagious Partner Newt fuck you faggots with your big loans who lived in 2000 dollar apts during med/law/business school because you assumed you would be raking big bucks in the future. you assumed wrongly. pay your fucking bills, deadbeats. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381162) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 2:55 PM Author: heady corn cake genital piercing U mad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381183) |
Date: June 12th, 2013 2:55 PM Author: heady corn cake genital piercing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381182) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:08 PM Author: vibrant hairy legs Paye is not a longterm solution. Also interesting:
" The New American Foundation study found that under the new income-based repayment rules, high-income borrowers will not incur any incremental cost in borrowing an additional dollar after they reach $60,000 in loans even if they have a six-figure income over most of their repayment term." |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:17 PM Author: obsidian razzle-dazzle national security agency locus lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381290) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:52 PM Author: magenta curious dopamine I'm so glad I don't have to worry about my debt any more. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381554) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:53 PM Author: obsidian razzle-dazzle national security agency locus Cross 70K and it's free (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381562) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:14 PM Author: Iridescent ape So many middle class $70-100k bros would be fucked without IBR. Technically they can "afford" to make $2600/mo payments but they would have to live like someone with a $10/hr job for the next 10 yrs while accumulating no safety net and putting major life plans on hold. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381281) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:18 PM Author: twisted jew oh well? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381295) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:23 PM Author: Iridescent ape (boomer) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381312) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:25 PM Author: twisted jew 25. I didn't waste my money on an expensive graduate degree like some of the dumb shits on this board. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381330) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:28 PM Author: Iridescent ape People like you are dumb as fuck. Most of you just lucked out into not spending money on a degree cuz you are proles who just happened to go to a cheap state school, then after-the-fact tell yourself how smart you are when really it was just by coincidence. And if you had mommy and daddy pay for your school then just kill yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381345) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:33 PM Author: twisted jew LJL. The guy who didn't blow $100K+ on crappy higher education is the one who is dumb as fuck, got it. I carefully weighed the costs and benefits before i made my decision not to go. You didn't, and i sure as fuck shouldn't have to pay for your idiocy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381378) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:35 PM Author: Iridescent ape You are a dumb nigger who can't differentiate outcomes from being smart. You lucked into it. I don't believe you did some expansive cost and benefit analysis, because one wasn't even possible during the time period I'm referring. Just lol. Who could have predicted that 2008-2009 would happen in law. You a fuckin fortune teller now too? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381399) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:40 PM Author: twisted jew Uh, people had been warning about saturation in the legal market for a long time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381437) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:50 PM Author: Indecent knife Boomers are so stupid. Who teh fuck htey thing gonna buy thay house when all the kids move away if not for freshly minted Gen Y docs/lawyers who had PAYE save them (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381534) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 4:17 PM Author: duck-like pit pocket flask hedge funds, foreign investment trusts, landlords... that's what is increasingly happening today, in any case. we'll move away from the model where average individuals have much expectation of "owning" real property, as opposed to being tenants of a mega-firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23415689) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:26 PM Author: heady corn cake genital piercing Then it doesn't make sense for anyone to attend higher education in the first place. The people who get good outcomes from graduate school shouldn't have to live like they're a high school dropout. If that was the outcome graduate school applications would plummet and no one except the rich would go. The gov't wants to provide incentives for higher education.
OBVIOUSLY though the system is broken and PAYE/IBR are fine but only IF the gov't can somehow cap tuition and otherwise stop the gravy train of student loan dollars to schools. Schools need to be held accountable for student outcomes. |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:30 PM Author: twisted jew I don't have an issue with graduate school attendance declining dramatically. The problem with most grad and professional schools is that the ROI is extremely low, which is why grads can't live well without government support. We should be asking why it makes sense for these people to go to school in the first place. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381361) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:34 PM Author: heady corn cake genital piercing I agree that there are a lot of BS grad programs. The problem is that schools raised tuition at will due to free flowing guaranteed student loan dollars.
It can make sense for students to go to these programs, and it should, if the cost is in line with the market for such degrees. Of course the gov't got involved and fucked everything up and now every single grad degree in anything is like $40k a year |
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Date: June 22nd, 2013 1:19 PM Author: Nighttime Boltzmann Quadroon Correct. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23450692) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 6:09 PM Author: Thriller crawly friendly grandma I don't agree with people taking out loans that they cannot repay, but we can't have a whole generation of people too poor to buy anything. When none of the young people can afford cars or homes or having kids, it hurts our whole economy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23382320) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 3:57 PM Author: Razzle elastic band locale Fucking Shitboomer. . .
*sharpens knife* |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:25 PM Author: dark motley rigpig basically me bro, but living like a $10/hr bro isn't that bad since i've never had the taste of civilized living. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381324) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:25 PM Author: Racy aquamarine school azn what kind of idiot would take out such a large debt if they arent guaranteed large salary? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381326) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:28 PM Author: heady corn cake genital piercing Lack of options? All grad school is ridiculously expensive, and the job market sucks.
The system is broken but it's not the students fault. They shuoldn't have to pay $300k for a law degree. The gov't fucked up the system and PAYE is the gov't's way of stopping the bleeding momentarily. |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:39 PM Author: Racy aquamarine school azn no one is making them do this. there are plenty of lucrative jobs for people with bachelors degrees (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381425) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:43 PM Author: heady corn cake genital piercing even assuming your statement is accurate, it doesn't change the fact that non-super rich students should have access to higher education without getting raped by nonsensical tuition increases at 8% interest (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381465) |
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Date: June 14th, 2013 5:44 AM Author: Provocative Pisswyrm Home Because morons like you continue to pay the ridiculous tuition rates, the schools can continue increasing what they charge. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23393486) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 4:03 PM Author: Razzle elastic band locale Ok, this is where you flame jumped the shark. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23415587) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 4:11 PM Author: heady corn cake genital piercing like I said above, there is effectively little choice for many students.
The more significant factors that allow schools to continue increasing what they charge are the broken student loan system and bankruptcy laws. These are what really need to be reformed. The students in the aggregate are really left without a choice, and it shouldn't be a choice they have to make. Graduate school being unaffordable for all but the super rich is an extremely new phenomemon created by boomers to squeeze more money out of others
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:55 PM Author: magenta curious dopamine One who realizes they don't have to pay it back due to IBR/PAYE. In other words, not an idiot at all.
Roll the dice on the taxpayer's dime bro. Privatized gains and socialized losses. |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:37 PM Author: Flickering autistic meetinghouse masturbator IMAGINE THAT!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381412) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:18 PM Author: excitant center haunted graveyard Good. Total loan debt have no marginal impact in loan payments after $70K is insane. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381297) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:23 PM Author: vibrant hairy legs I feel bad for recent graduates but the ibr/paye gravy train has to end and the feds have to institute tuition caps to break down the educational-industrial complex. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381313) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:24 PM Author: obsidian razzle-dazzle national security agency locus Recent grads are copping PAYE, no need to feel bad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381317) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:26 PM Author: Iridescent ape step 1. forgive most current student debt. step 2. kill off most fed backed loans, allow lenders to do risk assessment in giving loans (i.e. give loans to STEM bros, not critical theory bros).
....
= tuition will plummet to manageable levels again, bail out the generation that had to pay $50k/yr tuition |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:31 PM Author: vibrant hairy legs With a parental cosigner, banks will still lend to anyone in amounts that approximate a mortgage (remember no dischargeability). Just look at what banks are willing to lend to young people through credit cards and car loans. Tuition would not plummet. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381366) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:38 PM Author: Iridescent ape Please link to 18-26 year olds with $200k in unsecured credit lines. Yeah if your wealthy parents would co-sign for that much then maybe. But acting like a mortgage is similar to a (non-fed backed) student loan is nutty. If you don't pay your mortgage they just take your house. There isn't a ton of risk unless the value of the home depreciates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381415) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:43 PM Author: vibrant hairy legs The non-dischargeability of these loans makes them profitable. The Dept of education still collects on the defaulted loans and doesn't Lise money on them. The article in the OP points out that they get 1.22 for every dollar in default. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381469) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 6:01 PM Author: Purple Hospital (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23416265) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:33 PM Author: Chocolate Contagious Partner Newt fuck step 1. skip to step 2. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381377) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:33 PM Author: twisted jew (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381384) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:37 PM Author: Dull fiercely-loyal dog poop I don't understand where they are getting that. I looked into PAYE for my wife's med school loans and there was a definte marginal impact over 70k (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381405) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:46 PM Author: obsidian razzle-dazzle national security agency locus Well, there is clearly a line after which there is no marginal impact. http://imgur.com/W7CdVmW
70K is probably more likely to be the line for a TTT lawyer than any doctor. |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:48 PM Author: Dull fiercely-loyal dog poop I mean, obviously. I guess the article's language is loose. If you make 100k then no marginal impact over 70k? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381513) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 4:13 PM Author: vivacious property what is the marginal impact of 1.9% interest rates on each dollar borrowed? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23415661) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 4:15 PM Author: heady corn cake genital piercing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23415673) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 4:17 PM Author: pontificating parlour wtf 1800000000000000000 devastating pwn on this bootlicker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23415682) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 4:22 PM Author: excitant center haunted graveyard If you include the principal that needs to be repaid? It's certainly something.
Whereas if there is no repayment difference if you take out $100K or $300K, there is something seriously wrong there. |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 8:48 PM Author: vivacious property yeah man, just do loans that don't even keep up with inflation at rates where you basically only repay the principal bro.
the sad thing is that over a 30 year period the IBR borrower will probably pay MORE toward his loans than you will pay on yours. and you fucking complain about it. what a joke. |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 11:19 PM Author: heady corn cake genital piercing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23418698) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 11:56 PM Author: vivacious property where are you earl. you always do this in IBR/PAYE threads. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23419168) |
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Date: June 19th, 2013 4:42 PM Author: excitant center haunted graveyard it really depends on how much he makes. If he makes $70K with $300K in loans, he wont pay shit compared to paying the same amount off at 2% interest.
If he makes $70K and uses PAYE on $80K in loans, he might pay more than you would pay on $80K in loans at 2%.
The fact that he is paying the same amount for $80K or $300K is the problem. That would be a problem whether my interest rates are 2%, 6% or whether I pay all my loans tomorrow with cash. |
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Date: June 18th, 2013 12:49 PM Author: vivacious property (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23422073) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:40 PM Author: Embarrassed to the bone massive tattoo Better plan:
(1) All student loan debt is dischargeable in bankruptcy 5 to 7 years after first principal payment owed.
That's it.
Everything else will naturally follow after that. |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:44 PM Author: misanthropic mood jews RACING to this thread to structure variable-principal student loans so that you only pay "interest" for the first 15 years... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381479) |
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Date: June 14th, 2013 4:52 AM Author: Splenetic irradiated hunting ground windowlicker (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23393466) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 4:03 PM Author: Embarrassed to the bone massive tattoo I was using principal for shorthand to exclude interest capitalization during school.
It's easy enough to use the first post-separation payment.
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Date: June 14th, 2013 5:47 AM Author: Provocative Pisswyrm Home agree w/ the general idea (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23393487) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:45 PM Author: Lascivious sickened plaza dingle berry does this mean we're fukt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381482) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 3:49 PM Author: obsidian razzle-dazzle national security agency locus ya (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23381526) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 6:17 PM Author: Sadistic lettuce legal warrant They never allowed pre 2007 anyway. We're fucked (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23382377) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 4:01 PM Author: Flushed submissive business firm Nevermind that the US GOV makes a $50 billion PROFIT off student loans every year. This is the same bullshit "Rich doctor" arguments they made that led to them making loans non-dishchargeable.
Plus, you need to enroll in PAYE. Not many borrowers know about it. The DOE doesn't publicize it much nor do most schools. |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 6:13 PM Author: Indecent knife If it's anything like IBR, it's really hard to stay on it, too. Lenders "lose" your IBR application on the reg. Just paid off my last loan a couple months ago, so fuck worry about dat shit no mo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23382354) |
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Date: June 12th, 2013 6:22 PM Author: Maroon seedy trailer park preventive strike Exact same shit that happened with the federal mortgage refinance program. What a shocker. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23382395) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 3:46 PM Author: heady corn cake genital piercing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23415443) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 11:20 PM Author: laughsome library OH FUCKING CUNT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23418716) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 11:29 PM Author: Sadistic lettuce legal warrant SISTERS CUNT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23418825) |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 11:22 PM Author: Mind-boggling Voyeur Station I could probably pay my loans back in 5-6 years if I lived like an absolute poor. Lately, I've been seriously considering PAYE, even though 20 years of payments sickens me.
Question: if I go on PAYE, can the Govt change the terms down the line? That seems entirely unlikely, but boomers have to fund their retirement soon, so I can imagine them fucking over the youngs in a number of ways. |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 11:23 PM Author: heady corn cake genital piercing by the time it becomes an issue ARE generation will be in power (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23418751) |
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Date: June 18th, 2013 12:52 PM Author: Indecent knife and we will all have discharged ARE debt one way or another, seeing as how we've got 30-40yrs before we have power you really think ARE generation is chill enough to use our power to help out Gen Z and Gen Aleph? |
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Date: June 17th, 2013 11:24 PM Author: obsidian razzle-dazzle national security agency locus My personal view is they cannot, but there seem to be widely divergent views on this point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23418766) |
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Date: June 18th, 2013 1:10 PM Author: vivacious property can you explain this? tyia. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23422177) |
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Date: June 18th, 2013 1:16 PM Author: obsidian razzle-dazzle national security agency locus The government doesn't sign a contract with forgiveness written into its terms. The government does have to accept your payments under PSLF/PAYE/IBR as qualified payments. Some think that would raise a fairness/reliance type argument if the rug was pulled out on the forgiveness or the terms were changed. Others think the government can do whatever it wants. The programs are pretty new, and nobody has applied for forgiveness yet. When future surgeons start having $300K+ forgiven while paying almost nothing during residency/fellowships and then immediately start making $350K a year, some think that we will see some big changes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23422208) |
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Date: June 18th, 2013 1:22 PM Author: vivacious property this is scholarship.
I wonder what kind of backlash we'd see if IBR/PAYE/PSLF went away. I would be completely screwed. |
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Date: June 18th, 2013 1:30 PM Author: obsidian razzle-dazzle national security agency locus Yeah, I'm not totally sure how they can avoid giving a windfall to people who don't need forgiveness (like many doctors) while still using loan forgiveness to prop up hopelessly overpriced programs in other fields (like law school). One thing they might do is limit what can qualify for PSLF. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23422278) |
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Date: June 18th, 2013 1:48 PM Author: vivacious property yeah I see limiting PSLF as a much more plausible step. IBR for 30 years means people are still going to pay a substantial amount of money back.
PSLF for people making close to 100K in government work is not the best incentive. |
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Date: June 18th, 2013 12:52 PM Author: Indecent knife the govt can do anything, sovereign immunity baby (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23422091) |
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Date: June 18th, 2013 1:34 PM Author: Appetizing affirmative action I thought if you have a high enough salary, like 200K, then you actually pay more monthly under IBR/PayE than you would under a normal repayment plan, because your disposable income is so high? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23422308) |
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Date: June 18th, 2013 1:50 PM Author: vivacious property The most you pay under IBR (and I think PAYE, someone can correct that if I'm wrong) is the max you would pay under a 10 year repayment plan.
so yes, high earners are paying more in monthly payments under IBR than they would under a standard 30 year plan.
But if you make that much, you don't need IBR anyway. |
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Date: June 19th, 2013 4:34 PM Author: vivacious property still lolin' at earl's mad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23431261) |
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Date: June 21st, 2013 6:02 PM Author: Sadistic lettuce legal warrant (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2279947&forum_id=2#23445981) |