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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:39 AM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party e (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010127) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:41 AM Author: narrow-minded ape hi mott (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010135) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:42 AM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party Hello. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010136) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:42 AM Author: passionate address feces Will I get into a top post-bacc?
3.8+/1500+/175+/T6/decent UG/econ major with LOTS of math (3.9+ in math classes)/~30 years old. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:44 AM Author: embarrassed to the bone costumed boiling water i didnt think it really mattered where u did ur post-bacc classes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010149) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:51 AM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party no but some have linkages where you don't even take the mcat (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010181) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:09 PM Author: swashbuckling plum hairy legs messiness O RLY? Which ones? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010277) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:12 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party i think claremont has this. also bryn mayr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010293) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:19 PM Author: swashbuckling plum hairy legs messiness Nope: http://www.scrippscollege.edu/academics/catalog/special-programs.php#6 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010337) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:21 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party what does it say? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010345) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:27 PM Author: swashbuckling plum hairy legs messiness You still have to take the MCAT to gain admission to medical school. No back-doors exist. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010372) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:33 PM Author: narrow-minded ape Bryn Mawr's linkage with Dartmouth does not require you to take the MCAT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010419) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 4:18 PM Author: swashbuckling plum hairy legs messiness Link? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16011894) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 4:24 PM Author: narrow-minded ape http://www.brynmawr.edu/postbac/linkages.shtml
It doesn't specifically say which schools, but if I remember Dartmouth, Brown, and Rochester do not require it. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 5:10 PM Author: swashbuckling plum hairy legs messiness Doubtful. If LS tards have to take the LSAT without exceptions, I don't see why med students don't have to. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16012279) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:45 AM Author: lascivious therapy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010153) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:46 AM Author: embarrassed to the bone costumed boiling water this is a stupid post. Sorry. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010156) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:46 AM Author: lascivious therapy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010159) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:47 AM Author: embarrassed to the bone costumed boiling water explain (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010164) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:50 AM Author: lascivious therapy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010176) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:52 AM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party Everyone has their own approach to life. You sound like a striver. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010192) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:53 AM Author: lascivious therapy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010198) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:55 AM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party At some point in your life you're going to reflect on your decisions. For some people it's an achievement to take on a task like med school. And you know the saying that there is no such thing as a happy lawyer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010208) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:57 AM Author: embarrassed to the bone costumed boiling water titcr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010216) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:58 AM Author: lascivious therapy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010219) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:59 AM Author: embarrassed to the bone costumed boiling water u r a dense, 1-dimensional, stupid, miserable person (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010225) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:02 PM Author: lascivious therapy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010237) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:02 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party but theres tons who do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010240) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:04 PM Author: lascivious therapy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010253) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:03 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone costumed boiling water do u understand that how u feel doesn't make u right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010252) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:00 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party I disagree. And those doctors are shitty ass doctors probably from the younger generation. I've never met a single legit doctor who doesn't love what he does.
I actually would put the practice of medicine on par with the sports and entertainment fields in that you are doing what you love and it's really not a job. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:26 PM Author: arrogant cruel-hearted school cafeteria fanboi it's easy to convince yourself you love something when getting paid way too much money. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010368) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:03 PM Author: Supple striped hyena there's no point in doing anything at 48. you act like he's missing out on some golden years from 35-death when it's all shit anyway (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010251) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:07 PM Author: lascivious therapy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010264) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:08 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party he can defer his loans like everyone else. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010272) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:10 PM Author: lascivious therapy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010284) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:11 PM Author: Supple striped hyena "looking forward" to boringville, florida? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010287) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:19 PM Author: arrogant cruel-hearted school cafeteria fanboi med school loans are a joke when you're making 300k+. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010334) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:13 PM Author: Supple striped hyena then why don't you go do gay porn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010301) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:57 AM Author: Supple striped hyena his life is mostly over anyway; doesn't matter what he does after 35 since he's old (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010214) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:00 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party lol.
anyways some people are motivated by achievements, others by prestige, others by $$$$, etc. Just let the man be. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:47 AM Author: passionate address feces I work at V20 firm, bro. I think the fact that I've managed my life thus far that I have the financial flexibility to make a career change of this magnitude makes me a life winner. Thanks for the input, however. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010163) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:49 AM Author: lascivious therapy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010169) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:51 AM Author: passionate address feces Not sure what your point is. I have the capability to do it and I want to do it, not because of ITE or stiving for prestige, but because I think it would make me happy. What's the problem? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010185) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:59 AM Author: arrogant cruel-hearted school cafeteria fanboi lol, bullshit. I think it's a fine idea, but don't try and fucking tell us that this isn't the biggest striver move ever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010223) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:09 PM Author: Henna Curious Home Newt Leaving a prestigious and high paying job to pursue something you're more interested in seems like the epitome of opposing striverdom. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010279) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:16 PM Author: arrogant cruel-hearted school cafeteria fanboi lol @ "more interested". the only thing he's more interested in is respect/prestige and financial security. even "prestigious" biglaw is shit compared to medicine. even in biglaw he is in danger of being laid off. and medicine pays much more money.
if he was a partner clearing over 800k and he was giving that up to pursue medicine, then perhaps I'd buy his bullshit. but he's just looking for massive jump in income/prestige, and that is pure fucking striving. can't say I blame him. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:20 PM Author: passionate address feces Do the math factoring in the time value of money. It's unlikely that this will be a winning financial move even if my law salary caps out at 200k after my ~8 years in biglaw come to an end. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010343) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:28 PM Author: arrogant cruel-hearted school cafeteria fanboi get a decent specialty and you can make 400k+ until age 70 or so. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010381) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:30 PM Author: passionate address feces Thank you again, Timothy. You're helping to remove any lingering doubts I had. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010397) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:23 PM Author: Supple striped hyena so will you meet up with dr. hoople in los angeles and give him a vigorous blowjob or what (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010355) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:25 PM Author: Henna Curious Home Newt This is wrong on so many levels. There's no real prestige/respect gap between biglaw and medicine. Even if there was, he'd be losing tons of prestige by spending most of his 30s as a student, which is never prestigious at that age, no matter the field. After that, there are years of residency making shit pay. At the end of it all, he probably won't even see a jump in income - most doctors aren't making more than 200-250k. This would be a terrible decision for a striver. The costs are far too high, with at most a small increase in prestige and pay at the end. I can't picture anyone being willing to do this if they didn't truly believe they would be happier with their work or feel more fulfilled by it because of the switch. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010360) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:32 PM Author: arrogant cruel-hearted school cafeteria fanboi nope, there is a huge prestige gap. ITE is a big factor. medicine is the only steady lucrative gig out there. in everything else you're always in danger of being laid off.
you get more respect/pussy as a med student/resident than biglawyer. women are fucking obsessed with doctors. people treat you like a god.
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:34 PM Author: alcoholic parlor maybe if you're turdskin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010428) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:35 PM Author: Henna Curious Home Newt You have a weird, idolized view of medicine that is barely related to reality. Yes, it's a great job, but it doesn't even come close to this absurd god-like baller swimming in pussy making a guaranteed 400k+ for life vision you've come up with. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010430) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:42 PM Author: arrogant cruel-hearted school cafeteria fanboi actually, it does. people love to downplay how fucking hard medicine PWNS everything else. but it really does. and with ITE, the distinction between medicine and every other career is evident. because medicine is shielded from market forces, their absurdly high salaries are guaranteed.
and trust me, bitches' pussies get wet just thinking about doctors. the lay prestige is unmatched. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:14 PM Author: passionate address feces It's not. Over the course of my life I will probably make less money due the 8-10 years of lost income and I will be a med student/resident during that time which isn't very high on the prestige ladder. While I hate my job and think what I is monkey work, by most people's standards I'm in a prestigious position already. Also, I would go to an state med school over Harvard or Hopkins for the savings. Really has nothing to do with striving. Most people would view me like the angry pumo, like a fucking moron. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010305) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:25 PM Author: arrogant cruel-hearted school cafeteria fanboi lol, I don't think you're a moron. That's what you want people to think, because it's better than being seen as the filthy striver you are. law has gone to complete shit and you know it and you're trying to jump ship.
You're getting out of a shitty career to one with more money and prestige. I'd say a lowly med student is more prestigious than a big lawyer because that med student is guaranteed to be making ridiculous money for the rest of his life. the same cannot be said about the biglawyer. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:30 PM Author: passionate address feces Okay, sounds like persuasive reasons to make the switch. Thank you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010391) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:32 PM Author: arrogant cruel-hearted school cafeteria fanboi of course, it's a no-brainer (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010417) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:48 PM Author: narrow-minded ape NoBama, which programs you looking at? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010495) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 1:04 PM Author: passionate address feces Bryn Mawr, Goucher, Penn, and a few others. I will only go somewhere that has good linkage opportunities. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010582) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 1:30 PM Author: narrow-minded ape cosigned.
How many years out of undergrad are you? |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:51 AM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party 120 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010186) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 11:50 AM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party Possibly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010178) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:00 PM Author: narrow-minded ape Mott, did you do a PB program? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010233) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:02 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party Yes I did. Not a formal one like those in discussion in the OP. I took the mcat and everything and got in. so i know how the whole process works.
trust me, you're not the only d00d trying to do this right now! |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:03 PM Author: narrow-minded ape nice man - you in med school right now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010248) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:07 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party Yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010263) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:10 PM Author: narrow-minded ape I applaud you, bro. I'm losing a lot of fucking sleep over this decision. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010281) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:17 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party I lost a lot of sleep too, but you have to look at it this way. Ask yourself what motivates you: do you want $$$$$, prestige, to be accepted, to have women, a family, etc etc. Are you motivated by achievement???? Because you could always be an attorney and make that 150K but you're going to hate your life, your going to hate what you do for a living, and you'll always be living in fear of losing your job. Same thing if you work in the financial sector.
Now I have always been a loner and been motivated by achievement. My belief is that my interest in medicine (and in a specific field) is so much stronger than others' in med school that it will spark me to be the best which will ultimately lead to $$$$$$ for me. Just remember, not all doctors are created alike and the best are the most successful.. it's either that or you can toil in misery in the rat race for the rest of your life. That's how I looked at it and it was not longer a stressful decision for me to make. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:28 PM Author: narrow-minded ape Fuck d00d, that's what I've been trying to tell myself. Thank you for finally saying it.
I have wanted to do ophthalmology for years now - et it slide a bit in undergrad when law seemed more suitable. Now I have a matter of days to make an epic fucking decision. No matter what I do in life, no matter the accomplishment or achievement, no matter how good things may seem or possibly could be, regret of not finishing up the pre-med requirements and taking the MCAT just sits in my head like a fucking time bomb. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:39 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party That's why you need to do it, d00d.
Do you want to be the typical 20something working in a cubicle for a boss, having a great group of friends! being in coed leagues, always being in a relationship, facebooking all day, waiting for the weekend so you can be outdoors! and trying to get that first condo and maybe even be part of a homeowner's association! or do you want to be out in the true outdoors of the world working for yourself and having all the power and treating patients? It's your call man. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:48 PM Author: narrow-minded ape Just out of curiosity d00d, where did you end up doing the post-bacc courses?? I am thinking of trying to squeeze in at HES or see if it's possible to take courses at Dartmouth or UChicago, since I know they're on the quarter system. This is a late fucking decision, I know, but I think it might be time to take the plunge. I've been stressing over this situation since 2006 - and it seems nothing whatsoever can placate me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010488) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:50 PM Author: arrogant cruel-hearted school cafeteria fanboi strive on, striver. strive on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010503) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:50 PM Author: narrow-minded ape yes mom (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010506) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:50 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party I took them at schools in Los Angeles. UCLA, etc... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010504) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 2:14 PM Author: Henna Curious Home Newt You actually make the first option sound pretty fucking sweet. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16011035) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:04 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone costumed boiling water where did u go to LS? how old will u be when starting your MD training? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010256) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:08 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party I never went to law school. I started my post bacc when I was 24 and finished after 1.5 years then took mcat and applied.
so I will have an MD at age 32. Practicing by 36 or 37. Not too bad. |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:15 PM Author: narrow-minded ape What prompted you do go back, man? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010307) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:20 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party Dealing with all the bullshit of interviewing for jobs. I was in the same position as most on xoxo, the difference being that I wasn't stupid enough to rush right into law school after ug and incur 150k debt.
My whole experience was abysmal. Applying for jobs for which I was completely overqualified and having to beg for what others with connections got handed to them. I got sick of it and realized "hey look, here's a profession where my career is based upon my intelligence and hard work rather than on someone's subjective whims, and I can control my destiny." |
Date: September 10th, 2010 12:01 PM Author: Supple striped hyena thoughts on rocky vista for-profit DO medical school? thoughts on DO docs in general, are they untrustworthy TTTs |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:03 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party I don't know much about DO schools, however I can tell you now that a DO is not much weaker than an MD. This wasn't the case a generation or two ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010244) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:03 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone costumed boiling water not a doctor but where I live - which is a pretty affluent suburb - there are quite a few, very successful physicians who went to TTT DOs and even a few Mexico/Carribbean graduates.
Seems to me that if u can pass the boards - doesn't really matter much where you went (assuming u want to do private practice and not research/academia) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:09 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party yeah but the problem is that you have no chance at a "prestigious" or "sought after" speciality if you go to the caribbean/mexico. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010275) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:12 PM Author: Supple striped hyena what if you're the dumbest person in the world and you just want general practice. carib MD, or rocky bottom DO (which looks like UCI law, but not free) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010292) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:13 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party then those schools are fine. there's a huge shortage of doctors in rural and not heavily populated cities across the nation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010298) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:15 PM Author: Supple striped hyena which is less nigger though, esp when it comes time to get a residency anywhere. TTT DO or carib MD (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010306) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:18 PM Author: Talented Blue Library Reading Party probably the MD, but a well respected DO (phil osteopatthic) can get you many specialties. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010329) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:27 PM Author: irate cracking kitchen i did not apply to pcom. they make you write bullshit essays about DO but they have low mcat average even among DO schools. if i end up at a Do school i am joining the military. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010375) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:34 PM Author: Supple striped hyena u only want to make 100k right? b/c hot russian women will sleep with you for 20 pullups? why would you kare what TTT medical degree you even get, just get something, anything. aren't you going to australia, canada, or europe? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010422) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 12:27 PM Author: alcoholic parlor Residencies are in short supply and no more will be added for the next decade or so. Do not go to the carribean (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16010376) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 5:15 PM Author: Big affirmative action DOs have their own residency system, dooder (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1419528&forum_id=2#16012306) |
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Date: September 10th, 2010 5:32 PM Author: shaky space potus which is more important for medical school admissions?
GPA or MCAT |