Wachtell: 69.1

Cravath: 65.7

S&C: 65.0

DPW: 62.7

STB: 61.4

Paul Weiss: 59.8

Cleary: 58.2

Debevoise: 57.9

Skadden: 57.0

Survey results are across all offices, response rates are low, etc etc etc

http://www.americanlawyer.com/

http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?hubtype=Cover+Story&id=1153904735215

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6350147)

Why the fuck do t6 law school students think its "more prestigious" to work more hours (i.e. Cravath) to take home less pay (NYC COL)?

endlesspursuitofprestigeoverlifesatisfactionorrationalfinancialconsiderationspw3nd

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6350218)

sigh I'll probably do the same thing when it comes my turn : (

It's OK though. I also plan to have a midlife crisis at some point and move to montana. I'll buy a big fucking ranch and a pickup truck and just do outdoorsy things / read / write.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6350357)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6849329)

http://www.law.com/jsp/tal/PubArticleTAL.jsp?id=1127898310735

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6350791)

By W. DALE NELSON

Star-Tribune correspondent

March 17, 2004

LARAMIE -- Today's lawyers are "an unhappy lot" and many of them wish they had gone into some other line of work, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor told an overflow audience in a University of Wyoming concert hall Tuesday.

Speaking as the inaugural lecturer in a College of Law series on ethics and professionalism, O'Connor said ethical standards have declined since she went to law school in an era when people "trusted and respected" lawyers.

"Job dissatisfaction among lawyers is widespread, profound and growing worse," she said. Studies have shown that lawyers are three times as likely as those in other professions to suffer depression, and that drug dependency, divorce and suicide are also significantly more common among them, she told the audience.

A California study showed lawyers to be "profoundly pessimistic about the future of the legal profession" and found that only half said they would enter the profession if they had it to do over again, she said. Similarly, at the 30th anniversary of her Stanford Law School class, "the vast majority" said in response to a question that they would not do it over again if they had the choice to make.

In films, she said, lawyers are depicted as "bad people and bad professionals, unethical, disloyal or incompetent, and not too many Americans even remember that our society once actually trusted and respected lawyers."

"I think the decline of professionalism is partly responsible for this state of things," O'Connor said.

"Lawyers have to do more than know the law and the arts of practicing it," the justice said. "A great lawyer always remembers the moral and social aspects of an attorney's power and position."

"It has been said that a nation's laws are an expression of its highest ideals," said O'Connor, "while the conduct of some lawyers in the United States has sometimes been an expression of its lowest."

"A win-at-all costs mentality sometimes prevails," she said. "Many attorneys believe that zealously representing their client means pushing all the rules of ethics and decency to the limit.

"In contemporary practice, we often speak of our dealings with other lawyers as war, and act accordingly. But we ought not to look at litigation as war, or arguments as battles, or a trial as a siege."

"Civility is not a virtue that the majority of lawyers today choose to advertise," O'Connor said, deploring "the brutality of some in the legal profession today."

Carl M. Williams, a UW College of Law Graduate whose $1 million gift to the university made the lecture series and other ethics programs possible, deplored some advertising tactics in the profession. "I am put off by lawyers who come on the air and then cross over the line to deception" in their advertising, Williams.

O'Connor said she was sorry that because of the Supreme Court's schedule her appearance coincided with spring break, so that many law school students were absent. Despite spring break, however, there was a standing room only crowd in the Fine Arts Center Concert Hall, which seats nearly 700.

At a book signing by the justice beforehand, the line stretched clear across the spacious lobby of the center and snaked down a hallway to the east entrance of the building. A rough count showed somewhere between 150 to 200 people waiting. The justice's books are "The Majesty of the Law" and "Lazy B," her account of growing up on an Arizona ranch.

O'Connor, a Republican, served in the Arizona legislature and as an elected judge, was appointed to the state's Court of Appeals by Democratic Gov. Bruce Babbitt and was nominated to succeed retiring Justice Potter Stewart on the Supreme Court in 1981 by Republican President Ronald Reagan. She was the 102nd justice and the first woman to take a seat on the court.

Her appointment was confirmed by the Senate by a vote of 99-0, with Democratic Sen. Max Baucus of Montana absent. In an on-stage conversation with former Wyoming Sen. Alan Simpson, one of the members of the Judiciary Committee which also confirmed her unanimously, she said she thought Reagan, a horseman himself, "was intrigued by the cowgirl part of my background." Asked why the Senate action was unanimous, she said, "I think they were all a little hesitant about voting 'no'" because she was a woman.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6350699)

But,

Gibson: 55.9

O'Melveny: 57.0

MoFo: 56.4

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6350763)

But to answer your question, it mostly comes down the people you have to put up with. Working long hours is a lot more tolerable if you like your colleagues and staff, and if the firm emphasizes that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6350811)

Covington : 56.2

Arnold & Porter : 54.7

Hogan & Hartson : 56.0

Jones Day : 53.8

Akin Gump : 56.2

Williams & Connolly didn't participate, I guess.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6352141)

It's a real shock to the system to go from being in class or sutdying 35 hours a week and going out four times a week to working for 55-60 hours a week.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6352192)

HTFH

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6352248)

Also, just because accountants may work those hours doesnt mean that they are good hours.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6352276)

I don't know why positions on this board have to be so extreme - it always seems to be either "Biglaw is horrible and will ruin your life" or "Ha, if you can't work 80 hours a week and bill 75 of them you're a pussy whiner."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6352486)

Exactly, which is why you should not want to work 65 hours per week. Wouldnt you want more free time now than when you're 40 and everyone your age is married with kids and there isn't really much to do?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6352566)

Can anyone corroborate?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6352509)

Chambers is somewhat limited as well, but at least it can give you a good idea of the important practice areas and partners at each firm.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6352749)

Jenner: 56.3

Kirkland: 59.9

Sidley Austin: 58.8

Mayer Brown : 59.3

Winston Strawn : 55.8

Baker McKenzie: 56.4

McDermott Will: 56.2

Sonnenschein: 55.9

Not exact, but better than nothing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6360012)

An 8 hr a day job takes up most of your time. You have got to factor in getting ready for work, getting to and from work, etc, etc. So add on an addtional 1.5 hrs to your day right there. Eating three meals, add on 2 hrs more per day. Sleeping 6-8 hrs, and you've got anywhere from 6.5 to 4.5 hrs per day left over.

Now if you work 12 hr days, you can see how little spare time you have leftover. Are you going to pick up your dry cleaning at 10:00PM? When are you going to pay your bills, go shopping, do your dishes, etc, etc? If you work 12 hr days, you will have AT MOST 2 hrs of spare time PER DAY.

Now it starts to get interesting. 14 hr days. This is a 70 hr week if you just work 5 days. You will do nothing but work and sleep. All meals will be at your desk. The weekends will be spent doing all of the errands that most people do during the week. You will have one night out per week (Saturday). You may be too tired to enjoy it.

16 hr days: you work until 2:00-3:00AM every weekday, or else you pull 14 hr days, go home between 12:00-1:00AM and work a full day Saturday. You have no life other than work. You are constantly tired, look and feel like sh*t. If you are not in a seriously commited relationship already, good luck. You don't have any time to meet someone, much less go on a date, and even if you did, he/she would think you are insane (which you might be).

This is reality, folks. It's a long way to the top if you wanna rock n roll.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6360292)

Why can't you pick up your dry cleaning while on your hour lunch break? What kind of bills are you paying that you can't pay from work on your computer? If you really think that you have to eat all your meals at your desk, then you won't have many dishes to clean, will you?

8 hours is nothing. 12 hours is a little rough, but very livable if you're organized. 14 hours is bad, but very few attorneys work 14 hours on a consistent basis.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6360329)

I have several friends in retail. They are working 70+ hour weeks making maybe 35k just to have the privilege of working up the ladder. I have several friends in investment banking who, while having the chance to make more than I could ever make, have to work 90+ hour weeks. That's when you are unable to live.

People all over our country work 12 hour days for much less than 150k a year. Stop being a spolied brat.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6360406)

I am just posting to clue people into the reality that 60 hr weeks are not tit. It may seem so on paper, but real life is very different.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6360438)

You don't need 2-3 hours to eat - you can eat while you work. People still work out all the time - especially at my firm. People still do things on friday nights and weekends. Its not college, but its not considerably worse than your average job and you get paid much more.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6360520)

And as long as we're comparing lawyers to other professions in NYC, you've got to admit that the other people who work similar hours often make much more than lawyers.

Again, I am happy to have the opportunity to do this and I know that things could be much worse. However, I also know many people who have been very rudely awakened by the lifestyle and do not think it is a fair bargain. Yes, many of these people do seem to be from privileged backgrounds. But so are most of the people who go to law school

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6360637)

Talk to someone that does roofing or who works at McDonalds for 40 hrs a week and gets paid shit. THAT is a real job.

"you've got to admit that the other people who work similar hours often make much more than lawyers"

No. Sometimes, yes. Often, no. We've been over this and over this on this board in all the Joe_Vaj threads. I know plenty of accountants who work 60 hours a week and they get paid about half what I will. lets not even start about ibanking analysts, who work many more hours, and consultants at any firm other than McKensie.

"I also know many people who have been very rudely awakened by the lifestyle and do not think it is a fair bargain. Yes, many of these people do seem to be from privileged backgrounds. But so are most of the people who go to law school"

Like I said, get over yourself. Most people can deal with 2-4 years of BIGLAW and then do something else. They may not be unhappy while they are there, but it isn't like they crumble to pieces. If you are working consistent 60 hours weeks - that's not that bad. The vast majority of associates at my V5 are mature, knew what they were getting into, and can deal with the tough times. Ocassionally you meet someone who made a poor career choice, but they probably wouldn't have been happy in any job.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6361038)

hahahahahah

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6361224)

The upside is that your weekends are amazing. Starting friday night you're living every moment. The work hard/play hard life-style is pretty sweet, if that's how you want to live.

However, work hard/play soft blows, and anymore than 60-65 hours a week is soul-sucking.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6360401)

have you ever worked at a firm?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6361252)

I genuinely don't think that anyone working in biglaw should devote a substantial period of time to housework and errands. You make enough money to outsource these functions, and should to whatever extent it's possible. Online shopping and bill pay are your friends. Get your drycleaning delivered or get before work in the morning and keep it in your office. That kind of thing. It's still hard, but you can increase your spare time each day by an hour or two if you aren't a cheapass and avoid that shit. You may also need to make your life a little simpler by living close to work or accepting that some errands may not get done.

The description about 16-hour days sounds right, though, those things blow hard.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6360738)

I think 12-hour days are quite doable for a person who doesn't have family responsibilities and is willing to be organized. At that point, it takes some effort to maintain a social life, but I think one is possible. Or at least I've managed to do it so far.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6360762)

It is doable for many that do. Frankly, many (most) attorneys simply don't care.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6360770)

Could someone who has a subscription to law.com or american lawyer paste the rest of the survey results (or paste a link to a non-password-protected page)?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=465663&forum_id=2#6846416)