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Do rich URMs oppress poor URMs and white trash?
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:55 PM Author: vengeful filthpig they hoard all the AA for themselves even though they've had every advantage and there's no justification for it.
they are however more politically powerful than poor URMs and white trash, so they hoard the benefits of AA for themselves.
some wealthy URMs are just as bad as rich racist whites. |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:01 AM Author: vengeful filthpig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14330841) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:49 AM Author: vengeful filthpig Date: March 8th, 2010 10:24 AM Author: Antmatic
Why is Cautious T26 URM relevant to my case
Wealthy URMs do use their influence to keep benefits going to their kids, but so do wealthy whites, Asians, Hispanics, etc
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1244630&forum_id=2#14330959)
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Date: March 8th, 2010 7:44 PM Author: Filthy pistol a lot of URMs at top law schools are richer than i would have expected. i'd never met such rich black people in my life, it was sort of jarring. i wish they didn't benefit from aa but the schools don't care about the 'purposes' of the policy, they just need to boost minority numbers.
having said all that, every student should be assessed invididually, and some of them are objectively worthy of admission. antmatic is clearly a smart guy (dumb on politics but punditry =/= intellectual activity), your argument is stronger with cautious urm @ t-26. |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 9:19 PM Author: Galvanic Godawful Meetinghouse lol how do any URMs "hoard" AA for themselves? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14336430) |
Date: March 6th, 2010 11:56 PM Author: Mentally impaired orchid den clown dumb rich URMs should go to places like Dook where their dumb rich white brethren go (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14318554) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:57 PM Author: Massive theater candlestick maker And the dumb poors should go to the Muhreens or the Armee. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14318562) |
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Date: March 6th, 2010 11:59 PM Author: Mentally impaired orchid den clown fuck you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14318581) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:01 AM Author: slimy shaky location poors have a reason to have lower scores because their education has been worse. therefore you have a reason to think they can do better than their scores suggest.
give AA to the top performing poorz, not stupid as shit rich URMs who can't compete with their peers. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:02 AM Author: Mentally impaired orchid den clown cr. i should get AA, not faggot URMs from upper-crust suburbs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14318618) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:50 AM Author: Trip Learning Disabled Corner not really, man... if you are black and capable but miss out on AA due to lack of affluence, you are pretty much in the same boat of millions of other people, whites included, that get shafted by fake meritocracy.
well... not the same boat... but a similar one. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:54 AM Author: supple honey-headed blood rage chad your post makes no sense (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14318987) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 1:22 AM Author: Trip Learning Disabled Corner it makes perfect sense. access to higher education is based on outcomes which is largely based on material investment by parents and societies.
applicable intelligence is not inborn; it's almost entirely the result of education.
do you think every random, poor loser you see on the street (or even the majority of them) couldn't achieve comparable success if provided with the same upbringing, material comforts, education, etc. etc.?
Adult humans are work product in a very real sense, and in just as real a sense, you get what you pay for. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 1:23 AM Author: supple honey-headed blood rage chad lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14319211) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 1:30 AM Author: Trip Learning Disabled Corner are you a fucking idiot or is that "lol" just a front for some kind of blindingly intelligent insight which you decline to share? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14319269) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 6:18 PM Author: Mind-boggling Frisky Property Old Irish Cottage a guy i know grew up poor as fuck, and he white.
he is a smart motherfucker and works his ass off and makes a mil (mol) a year.
he was not albert einstein. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:03 AM Author: bull headed charcoal institution Rich people tend to find ways to maintain their advantage over more qualified poor people, yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14318629) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:04 AM Author: Mentally impaired orchid den clown but rarely is it so blatant and veiled as some kind of fairness thing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14318638) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 7:49 PM Author: Filthy pistol you may actually be swaying this middle class URM, but you need more data abt these URM's wealth. anecdotal is a start. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14335551) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:06 AM Author: Wine Vigorous Philosopher-king Tanning Salon I used to have this romanticized idea that other cultures place more of a premium on cohesivness and egalitarianism. This might be true. But you dont see it in urban america where every minority with some change to spare is rolling around in an escalade trying to prove his superiority over his minority brethren. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14318655) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:07 AM Author: Mentally impaired orchid den clown cr. blacks are the worst thing for blacks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14318661) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:19 AM Author: slimy shaky location (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14318759) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:43 AM Author: Trip Learning Disabled Corner Post is stupid and fundamentally flawed; assuming some inherent value in AA, the purpose is to correct imbalance between blacks and whites, not to attempt to level the playing field among blacks.
Black kids with a more affluent upbringing and private education are more likely to be able to handle top-level college/grad education anyway.
The central argument for AA isn't that some blacks need it purely because they're poor for historical reasons, it's that American blacks as a whole had their entire socioeconomic status set back by a couple hundred years by starting off as dispensable property, then outcasts/lynching targets, then plain old undesirables, and so forth through the years. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:48 AM Author: supple honey-headed blood rage chad i argue that the point of AA is acknowledging that due to no fault of their own, people do not start out on a level playing field. if you apply the same standard to everyone, some people will be excluded even though they're intelligent enough because they were arbitrarily given a worse education usually due to low ses. therefore, you relax the hard standards for those with indicia of intelligence and determination.
even if the point is uplifting race, you're probably better off targeting the URMs from the top of the poor people shit heap. they are most likely to be innately intelligent and have the drive to succeed.
the privileged urm who scored lower is never going to be able to compete against their more intelligent peers. helping them is a waste of time.
you can fix the more likely to finish school problem by providing good need based aid. many ivy schools, including places like harvard, do that these days.
hth
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:58 AM Author: Trip Learning Disabled Corner taken to its logical conclusion, your idea of AA should be race-blind and based more or less entirely on SES.
good luck convincing the US economy that it needs to dramatically increase its subsidy of higher education for EVERYBODY, regardless of parental resources and investment.
again, the purpose of AA is not to help poor blacks, or poor people in general; it's to help blacks in the aggregate. there will necessarily be "elites" who are luckier than others.
private institutions, as you observe, are free to take their own approach. many promising black kids from poor backgrounds are given beyond-free-ride financial aid at top schools.
"hth" is only appropriate when you have definitively shown someone to be wrong; it's out of place when you are debating a debatable subject. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 1:01 AM Author: supple honey-headed blood rage chad good luck not having AA banned in anymore states or held unconstitutional by the roberts court.
and a lot of fricken people have already expressed support for SES AA. see, the thing is, that's actually fair.
hth. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 1:15 AM Author: Trip Learning Disabled Corner SES AA is only "fair" if capitalism and the modern regime of private property is inherently unfair.
good fucking luck. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:48 AM Author: supple honey-headed blood rage chad http://www.law.ucla.edu/sander/systemic/final/sanderfinal.pdf
"The first student survey I conducted suggested that UCLA’s diversity programs had produced little socioeconomic variety; students of all races were predominantly upper crust. Black-white performance gaps were very large, and this had visible effects on classroom interaction."
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Date: March 7th, 2010 1:09 AM Author: Trip Learning Disabled Corner expected, within parameters. exactly the gap AA attempts to close over a long period of time. it distorts the whole process by disassociating pure, measurable "success" from access to higher education, but I think you will find it difficult to argue that there is no outstanding moral debt to blacks, due to US slavery practices, and especially due to its unique characterstics, widespread nature, and the fact of its relatively modern, post-enlightenment occurrence.
there is an intuitively clear sense why we think US slavery practices should be atoned for, as compared to the vast catalogue of other atrocities throughout history. quite reasonably, nobody thinks the italians need to make nice with everyone the romans fucked over.
there is also a clear imperative that if any country is going to shoulder such a burden, it should be America, because we consciously strive to put ourselves on moral high ground. |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 1:12 AM Author: supple honey-headed blood rage chad ok, you're flame, nm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14319095) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 1:13 AM Author: marvelous chapel his post makes good sense
in fact, it is the cr |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 1:16 AM Author: Trip Learning Disabled Corner i'm not flame, but I think you may have blinders on. a big part of understanding the world is realizing how fucking ugly it is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14319140) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:49 AM Author: supple honey-headed blood rage chad "The admission preferences extended to blacks are very large and do not successfully identify students who will perform better than one would predict based on their academic indices."
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:49 AM Author: Thriller Dragon Private Investor Except for that whole not living in Africa benefit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14318955) |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 12:52 AM Author: supple honey-headed blood rage chad also "correct imbalance between blacks and whites" leaves it most open to attack. people are more willing to help people who are disadvantaged than all people of a particular race, even if they are fucking rich to begin with.
also looks REALLY FUCKING BAD when you're also "correcting" the imbalance between blacks and asians. it's been widely documented that asians are harmed by AA. since when are blacks oppressed by fucking asians? why should asians be sacrificed to help blacks? |
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Date: March 7th, 2010 1:13 AM Author: Trip Learning Disabled Corner hi, we have often been heavy-handed in our dealings with asian countries, but it's sort of on an entirely different scale and dramatically different kind than having an entire 3rd-generation-plus race of slaves plopped into a largely hostile society and told "start running".
not like black slaves in America are unique in having been thoroughly screwed by on a grand scale, but can you really make an argument that the situation as regards them, and their offspring, isn't, nevertheless, unique? |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 7:50 PM Author: Filthy pistol rich black kid who goes to hotchkiss has the resources to overcome most lingering disadvantages (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14335575) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 10:17 PM Author: ebony temple Black kid that goes to hotchkiss is going to have his own issues. Being rich and black isn't easy. It's not as though rich blacks aren't treated weirdly by whites, too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14336991) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 11:43 AM Author: offensive deer antler electric furnace being a rich urm is the credited life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14331344) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 11:44 AM Author: buff cerebral point AA is not about income. hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14331352) |
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Date: March 8th, 2010 7:47 PM Author: Filthy pistol rich URM amirite? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1243384&forum_id=2#14335534) |