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fastest way to get ride of acne/clear up skin

for the past month, i've had acne that i just can't get rid ...
tripping spruce parlor
  01/27/05
sandpaper.
Ocher National Mental Disorder
  01/27/05
Quit taking loads to the face, to start.
deep coffee pot
  01/27/05
Moisturizer is more likely to make you break out, not less.
tan sanctuary ratface
  01/27/05
correct.
startling boiling water
  01/27/05
Skin also breaks out when it is dry and irritated, so moistu...
amethyst office
  01/27/05
Eh, even so it should definitely be kept at a minimum. If d...
tan sanctuary ratface
  01/27/05
dryness is a problem because of the weather and dry heat in ...
tripping spruce parlor
  01/27/05
Well, a quick fix just might not be possible for you.
tan sanctuary ratface
  01/27/05
you are wrong
saffron supple macaca deer antler
  01/27/05
There are exceptions but for the most part, nope. Too bad.
tan sanctuary ratface
  01/27/05
Not if it is for the right skin type (for example, if skin i...
Racy Fuchsia Kitchen Wrinkle
  01/27/05
depends on the moisturizer, depends on the face.
violet floppy stage
  01/27/05
.
white principal's office
  01/27/05
get a facial from an esthetician. it worked for the zitti...
Turquoise hilarious lodge
  01/27/05
i've heard these do wonders. like a chemical peel or someth...
startling boiling water
  01/27/05
he would get some acid peel, then they would steam his face,...
Turquoise hilarious lodge
  01/27/05
I got a (very mild) peel two weeks ago, it has made a huge d...
Racy Fuchsia Kitchen Wrinkle
  01/27/05
facials are awesome
deep coffee pot
  01/27/05
yeah i need something quick. vitamins usually take a week or...
tripping spruce parlor
  01/27/05
A megastrong version of Clearasil or something to that effec...
tan sanctuary ratface
  01/27/05
One of my friends saw a doctor about acne recently, and the ...
amethyst office
  01/27/05
If it's only temporary, not severe, and you need something q...
Out-of-control hissy fit crotch
  01/28/05
Slit your throat. Acne problem solved.
sooty geriatric business firm
  01/27/05
My daughter is struggling with this right now. Get a bar of ...
orange hall
  01/28/05
acne is very treatable; containable 1. go to a dermatolog...
saffron supple macaca deer antler
  01/27/05
retin-A is not over the coutner right? my problem is tempora...
tripping spruce parlor
  01/27/05
same here so i don't use the retin a very often, it's lasted...
saffron supple macaca deer antler
  01/27/05
That's not how Retin A works. Retin A works over time by pee...
navy submissive step-uncle's house
  01/30/05
you are correct except it doesn't take very long to notice a...
saffron supple macaca deer antler
  01/31/05
i bet it's stress related.
saffron supple macaca deer antler
  01/27/05
thoght it would be after finals...but then i spent winter br...
tripping spruce parlor
  01/27/05
i know. i still think its stress. try peter thomas roth's...
saffron supple macaca deer antler
  01/27/05
stop masturbating.
Mentally impaired travel guidebook plaza
  01/27/05
You getting enough sleep? This seriously has to do with it....
Spectacular Stead
  01/27/05
proactiv
honey-headed doobsian hell tattoo
  01/27/05
Go to a dermatologist. Go to a facialist. If you can't d...
Racy Fuchsia Kitchen Wrinkle
  01/27/05
Definitely try Proactiv. One of my friends had his face com...
Out-of-control hissy fit crotch
  01/28/05
Go to Wal-Mart and buy Blue Green Algae, also sometimes call...
Big harsh fortuitous meteor old irish cottage
  01/28/05
Proactiv is awesome. It works the best out of anything I've...
azure menage juggernaut
  01/28/05
most of all, no alcohol, no overnight parties and smoking. t...
Shimmering set
  01/28/05
Like anything it will work for some but not for others. Cer...
passionate fiercely-loyal station
  01/28/05
Clinique Total Turnaround Visible Skin Renewer, twice a day.
stubborn zippy cruise ship
  01/28/05
Clinique sucks. I would recommend Murad's acne spot treatme...
bull headed sienna institution
  01/28/05
Is your entire purpose on this board to contradict me? Cl...
stubborn zippy cruise ship
  01/28/05
What? I don't even remember ever seeing you. Do youhave an ...
bull headed sienna institution
  01/30/05
Buy Accutane online from a Mexican pharmacy. Don't get preg...
balding base roast beef
  01/28/05
Oh yes, accutane is great. You cn get a prescription for it...
bull headed sienna institution
  01/28/05
dont off yourself
Swashbuckling Piazza Internal Respiration
  01/28/05
F-ing law school stress is making me break out. Sun is th...
Swashbuckling Piazza Internal Respiration
  01/28/05
Accutane is supposed to be "the cure" for acne, bu...
Out-of-control hissy fit crotch
  01/28/05
To the OP
Out-of-control hissy fit crotch
  01/28/05
Proactive tore my face up horribly when I had really bad ACN...
odious sable jew church building
  02/01/05
Acne solution --- clear skin
razzle-dazzle brilliant partner theater stage
  01/30/05
"it doesnt cost anything" that's what you think...
bull headed sienna institution
  01/30/05
Ortho-Tricyclen
Fantasy-prone amber spot athletic conference
  01/30/05
Proactiv is a frikken scam. You can get the same results buy...
white principal's office
  10/19/05
Try not being a fat greasy poindexter. I hope this helps.
Motley therapy center
  10/19/05


Poast new message in this thread





Date: January 27th, 2005 12:55 AM
Author: tripping spruce parlor

for the past month, i've had acne that i just can't get rid of; my skin is usually sensitive but not this bad...i've tried clearasil and neosporin on them, i wash my face twice a day, use moisturizer, drink lots of water..but nothing. what's the strongest over the counter shit that will take care of this in 2-3 days?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010230)





Date: January 27th, 2005 12:56 AM
Author: Ocher National Mental Disorder

sandpaper.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010234)





Date: January 27th, 2005 12:56 AM
Author: deep coffee pot

Quit taking loads to the face, to start.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010235)





Date: January 27th, 2005 12:56 AM
Author: tan sanctuary ratface

Moisturizer is more likely to make you break out, not less.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010239)





Date: January 27th, 2005 12:58 AM
Author: startling boiling water

correct.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010245)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:00 AM
Author: amethyst office

Skin also breaks out when it is dry and irritated, so moisturizer can be a good thing if it is oil-free and won't clog pores.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010254)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:01 AM
Author: tan sanctuary ratface

Eh, even so it should definitely be kept at a minimum. If dryness is a problem it might be better just to switch to a less irritating face wash.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010262)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:02 AM
Author: tripping spruce parlor

dryness is a problem because of the weather and dry heat in my building (humidifier is in order...)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010271)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:03 AM
Author: tan sanctuary ratface

Well, a quick fix just might not be possible for you.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010277)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:25 AM
Author: saffron supple macaca deer antler

you are wrong

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010405)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:28 AM
Author: tan sanctuary ratface

There are exceptions but for the most part, nope. Too bad.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010424)





Date: January 27th, 2005 8:26 AM
Author: Racy Fuchsia Kitchen Wrinkle

Not if it is for the right skin type (for example, if skin is oily, use a non-oil based gel moisturizer).

If skin is too dry, it will overcompensate by producing oil to naturally moisturize. Which can cause breakouts. So it is better to use a moisturizer that isn't oil based so your skin doesn't react to being too dry.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2011276)





Date: January 27th, 2005 10:36 AM
Author: violet floppy stage

depends on the moisturizer, depends on the face.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2011521)





Date: January 27th, 2005 12:57 AM
Author: white principal's office

.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010241)





Date: January 27th, 2005 12:58 AM
Author: Turquoise hilarious lodge

get a facial from an esthetician.

it worked for the zittiest mofo i ever met. it will work for you.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010244)





Date: January 27th, 2005 12:59 AM
Author: startling boiling water

i've heard these do wonders. like a chemical peel or something? leaves the skin real smooth and shit?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010247)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:11 AM
Author: Turquoise hilarious lodge

he would get some acid peel, then they would steam his face, and then pop his zits. then they sold him about $150 worth of swedish skin care crap. he had to go a bunch of weeks in a row at first, but goes once a month now. his skin looks 1000% better.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010319)





Date: January 27th, 2005 8:27 AM
Author: Racy Fuchsia Kitchen Wrinkle

I got a (very mild) peel two weeks ago, it has made a huge difference on the smoothness of my skin.

I don't think they do anything for acne though generally.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2011278)





Date: January 27th, 2005 12:59 AM
Author: deep coffee pot

facials are awesome

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010248)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:01 AM
Author: tripping spruce parlor

yeah i need something quick. vitamins usually take a week or so to get into your system, i use a masque that exfoliates twice a week...and still. i'm thinking a mega strong version of clearasil?

i thought having dry skin is just as bad for acne, because your skin produces oil naturally to compensate.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010265)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:02 AM
Author: tan sanctuary ratface

A megastrong version of Clearasil or something to that effect is most likely going to dry out your skin a LOT.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010274)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:09 AM
Author: amethyst office

One of my friends saw a doctor about acne recently, and the dr. told him to exfoliate less. That seemed kind of counterintuitive to me, but I guess it goes back to the irritation factor.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010304)





Date: January 28th, 2005 8:04 PM
Author: Out-of-control hissy fit crotch

If it's only temporary, not severe, and you need something quick, what worked wonders for my mild acne was an astringent called "Seabreeze." Do NOT get the blue one (for sensitive skin) because that one is absolute CRAP.

The regular one (the yellow one) will dry your breakouts overnight. For best and fastest results, apply it as many times during the day as you can. And when you apply it, if the cotton pad looks soiled, apply it again until it's totally clear. The next day you'll see that everything's dried up--guaranteed.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2021022)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:01 AM
Author: sooty geriatric business firm

Slit your throat. Acne problem solved.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010260)





Date: January 28th, 2005 5:14 PM
Author: orange hall

My daughter is struggling with this right now. Get a bar of either Aveeno facial soap (cheap) or Clinique's bar soap (expensive) and an exfoliating sponge (Target - package of 6 about $1.50) and wash your face with both every day. Follow up with a light moisturizing cream. I like Cliniques yellow gel moisturizing product; she likes Oil of Olay Total Effects Moisturiser - about $10 at Target or in the supermarket. Try and wear a light foundation or none at all.

Her acne has improved a lot but is not completely gone.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2020292)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:03 AM
Author: saffron supple macaca deer antler

acne is very treatable; containable

1. go to a dermatologist.

2. get retin-A

3. use it. (combine with moisturizer)

you're set.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010281)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:08 AM
Author: tripping spruce parlor

retin-A is not over the coutner right? my problem is temporary, started a month ago...im trying to figure out the cause...dont want to pay to go to the dermy unless this becomes an ongoing thing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010297)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:10 AM
Author: saffron supple macaca deer antler

same here so i don't use the retin a very often, it's lasted me forever but when i get a break out it zaps it away.

do you have insurance? if so, just get off your ass and go.

if not then i don't know - get high quality cleansing products from sephora or something. drink WATER. rotate your facial cleanser to another kind every couple months.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010316)





Date: January 30th, 2005 6:22 PM
Author: navy submissive step-uncle's house

That's not how Retin A works. Retin A works over time by peeling away a shallow layer of your skin. You're observing a coincidence.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2029822)





Date: January 31st, 2005 9:18 AM
Author: saffron supple macaca deer antler

you are correct except it doesn't take very long to notice a change. like a few days.

i know how it works.

HTH

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2034033)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:11 AM
Author: saffron supple macaca deer antler

i bet it's stress related.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010321)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:14 AM
Author: tripping spruce parlor

thoght it would be after finals...but then i spent winter break (4 weeks) sitting on my ass watching reruns of friends and sleepign 15 hours a day. my acne actually got worse

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010340)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:28 AM
Author: saffron supple macaca deer antler

i know. i still think its stress.

try peter thomas roth's gycolic acne facial wash from sephora. follow with a toner recommended by sephora staff and an oil free moisturizer (ok if from drug store - like neutrogena oil free)

get a facial.

drink water.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010423)





Date: January 27th, 2005 1:14 AM
Author: Mentally impaired travel guidebook plaza

stop masturbating.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010343)





Date: January 27th, 2005 3:23 AM
Author: Spectacular Stead

You getting enough sleep? This seriously has to do with it. If you get more sleep you skin just looks a lot better. Try it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2010972)





Date: January 27th, 2005 3:41 AM
Author: honey-headed doobsian hell tattoo
Subject: proactiv

...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2011016)





Date: January 27th, 2005 8:13 AM
Author: Racy Fuchsia Kitchen Wrinkle

Go to a dermatologist. Go to a facialist.

If you can't do that, try Pro-Activ. It worked pretty well for the zits I got while studying for the bar exam.

If you don't want to do that, make sure you're cleaning with a cleanser for your skin type (whether that is oily/normal/combination/dry) and that you're using a moisturizer, and get good anti-zit creams for when you get breakouts. Taking a multivitamin, eating a good diet, and drinking plenty of water can help improve how your skin looks too.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2011265)





Date: January 28th, 2005 12:16 AM
Author: Out-of-control hissy fit crotch

Definitely try Proactiv.

One of my friends had his face completely ruined by acne, and he tried everything, I recommended him the astringent I was using at the time (for mild acne I had) and it did nothing for him, while it was working pretty well for me. Suddenly he showed up one day with a completely clear face, I was impressed. Then he told me he had tried proactiv.

Seemed like the single only thing that had ever worked for him.

I even know people who went on Accutane 3 or 4 times, and were still full of acne. Try proactiv and see how it goes. But that won't be in 2 days, probably one week. Oh, and you have to order it; it might take a week or two to get it. But if might be a long term solution.

Edit: BTW, if you're a prestige whore, proactiv was created by "two MDs from Stanford Medical School", so, it's supposed to be "good stuff.." haha..

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2016821)





Date: January 28th, 2005 12:36 AM
Author: Big harsh fortuitous meteor old irish cottage

Go to Wal-Mart and buy Blue Green Algae, also sometimes called Spirulina. Take 10 of those capsuls a day for a week. This should set you back about $20 for the week. This stuff does wonders for my face. Apparently my acne was caused by a poor diet and the algae fixed it. No guarantee that it will work for you, but my improvement was so rapid and so successful that you can only stand to gain if it works for you. After this initial attack does of algae, taking 5 pills a day should keep you acne-free.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2016933)





Date: January 28th, 2005 10:27 AM
Author: azure menage juggernaut

Proactiv is awesome. It works the best out of anything I've ever tried, the only drawback is that it's $50.

Also, you can get a facial from the beauty school and they'll have the teacher (a professional esthetician) handle the "extractions." It really helps a lot, right away, and it's like $20!

Another thing to think about - most drugstore products have Salicylic Acid as the acne fighting ingredient. Some people are sensitive to Salicylic acid. It makes me break out. So it's counterintuitive, but the stronger the acne product, the more I break out. Proactiv works for me because it uses Benzoyl Peroxide.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2018012)





Date: January 28th, 2005 4:34 PM
Author: Shimmering set

most of all, no alcohol, no overnight parties and smoking. try to sleep at 11 pm and sleep at least 7 hours.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2020092)





Date: January 28th, 2005 6:56 PM
Author: passionate fiercely-loyal station

Like anything it will work for some but not for others. Certainly didn't work for my cousin. She found that Accutane was the only thing that worked, but only for a few years. Now she has to take it again.

Antibiotics work for some. Retin A or Differin work for some.

Rotate what you use to wash your face every so often.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2020670)





Date: January 28th, 2005 6:26 PM
Author: stubborn zippy cruise ship

Clinique Total Turnaround Visible Skin Renewer, twice a day.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2020561)





Date: January 28th, 2005 6:33 PM
Author: bull headed sienna institution

Clinique sucks. I would recommend Murad's acne spot treatment, for individual zits. You'll see a difference overnight.

murad.com

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2020568)





Date: January 28th, 2005 8:06 PM
Author: stubborn zippy cruise ship

Is your entire purpose on this board to contradict me?

Clinique visible skin renewer will clear up your skin in a few weeks and then prevent pimples before you get them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2021029)





Date: January 30th, 2005 5:47 PM
Author: bull headed sienna institution

What? I don't even remember ever seeing you. Do youhave an alternatename or something?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2029534)





Date: January 28th, 2005 6:35 PM
Author: balding base roast beef

Buy Accutane online from a Mexican pharmacy. Don't get pregnant (in case you're a chick).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2020574)





Date: January 28th, 2005 6:37 PM
Author: bull headed sienna institution

Oh yes, accutane is great. You cn get a prescription for it too.

But you have to start avoiding sunlight while your on it, so you shouldn't take it if you live in a sunny place.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2020584)





Date: January 28th, 2005 6:58 PM
Author: Swashbuckling Piazza Internal Respiration

dont off yourself

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2020680)





Date: January 28th, 2005 6:58 PM
Author: Swashbuckling Piazza Internal Respiration

F-ing law school stress is making me break out.

Sun is the best remedy for me.

I need to go tanning.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2020678)





Date: January 28th, 2005 7:58 PM
Author: Out-of-control hissy fit crotch

Accutane is supposed to be "the cure" for acne, but the truth is that it really isn't. I've known people who've been on Accutane 3 or 4 times throughout a period of 3-5 years, and they still have TONS of acne!

It does work for some people, but for others it works for a few months and that's it.

I was shocked when this guy I met told me he had been on Accutane already 4 times, and he looked like a teenager in his worst stage of acne, even though he was like 29! Some people are just born for acne. The very best results I've seen in those whose acne is serious, is Proactiv.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2020994)





Date: January 28th, 2005 8:05 PM
Author: Out-of-control hissy fit crotch
Subject: To the OP

If it's only temporary, not severe, and you need something quick, what worked wonders for my mild acne was an astringent called "Sea Breeze." Do NOT get the blue one (for sensitive skin) because that one is absolute CRAP.

The regular one (the yellow one) will dry your breakouts overnight. For best and fastest results, apply it as many times during the day as you can. And when you apply it, if the cotton pad looks soiled, apply it again until it's totally clear. The next day you'll see that everything's dried up--guaranteed.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2021025)





Date: February 1st, 2005 3:44 AM
Author: odious sable jew church building

Proactive tore my face up horribly when I had really bad ACNE. It's just over the counter versions of the shit that a derm will prescribe for you when you first seem them usually. Acutane is a wonder drug for most people. I'm sure you all can google it...some of the journals are impressive. I had similar results.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2040290)





Date: January 30th, 2005 5:42 PM
Author: razzle-dazzle brilliant partner theater stage
Subject: Acne solution --- clear skin

Have sex. Lots of it, really.

The more sex you have, the more you release pent up frustrations and clogged facial glands. Sex a few times a week usually does the trick for me, and best of all it doesnt cost anything and you feel great afterward!



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2029505)





Date: January 30th, 2005 5:48 PM
Author: bull headed sienna institution

"it doesnt cost anything"

that's what you think.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2029545)





Date: January 30th, 2005 10:58 PM
Author: Fantasy-prone amber spot athletic conference
Subject: Ortho-Tricyclen

Birth control pill. Controls your hormones.

To treat existing acne...facials (hurts like hell) or proactiv works!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#2032341)





Date: October 19th, 2005 3:04 AM
Author: white principal's office

Proactiv is a frikken scam. You can get the same results buying an $4.99 acne wash w/ 2% salaclic (sp?) acid solution followed by moisturizer (very important step b/c if not done, then after acne clears up, skin dries out and ultimately acne worsens)... Recently discovered this and pretty happy with it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#4083213)





Date: October 19th, 2005 11:37 AM
Author: Motley therapy center

Try not being a fat greasy poindexter. I hope this helps.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=128975&forum_id=2#4083884)