Cravath yield at Yale: 16 offers, 1 acceptance
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: February 25th, 2005 3:16 AM Author: Flushed business firm
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205148) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:19 AM Author: Geriatric pea-brained genital piercing
Cravath is a very good firm. It is not a mistake to go there.
Where did you transfer from/numbers?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205166) |
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Date: June 13th, 2005 7:00 PM Author: Laughsome house toaster
"Have you heard of Vault, big guy?"
Oh, my.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#3005068) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:20 AM Author: Cheese-eating Blue Nursing Home Brethren
You'll work hard, but it'll make you a better lawyer in whatever specialty you wind up in. I bet you have a pretty good idea what you want to focus on, and that it's something that lends itself to a biglaw practice more than most of your classmates.
And don't worry--if it turns out to not be a great fit, you'd have obscene options if you reinterviewed.
Also, paging GTO? He suggests that poor representation of Yale and Stanford at firms like Cravath implied poorer placement in NYC than Harvard. And, in Stanford's case, Northwestern as well.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205177) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:04 AM Author: French university
"Also, paging GTO? He suggests that poor representation of Yale and Stanford at firms like Cravath implied poorer placement in NYC than Harvard. And, in Stanford's case, Northwestern as well."
I wasn't pointing to poor placement at Cravath, I was pointing to poor placement at *all* Vault/AmLaw firms in the aggregate. The quality modifier in the rankings didn't have much of an impact at all, except at the extreme margins (ie. statistical ties) the quality/depth rankings ended up being the same as the depth rankings.
In other words, tons of Yalies turning down Cravath for Cleary makes absolutely no difference... A self selection problem only exists if tons of Yalies are turning down Cravath for Jacoby & Meyers or the Personal Injury Hotline.
And fyi, the poorer placement isn't due to their reputations -- the regression analysis on the national employment data makes it *very* clear what's going on here.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205362) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:32 AM Author: Cheese-eating Blue Nursing Home Brethren
The only obvious thing is geography. But I'm skeptical that it's that big a deal, in terms of options (though not in terms of outcomes). Okay, well I'll wait anxiously.
EDIT: I could also see alumni network. There might be a little more to that.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205434) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:37 AM Author: French university
I adjusted for region, as well as sectoral preferences.
The significant variables aren't related to student preferences, they're related to the schools themselves.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205444) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:31 AM Author: curious awkward abode
Ok, I just wanted to make sure you know that a law student piece w/ imperfect bluebooking = autoding.
I just noticed it when I opened the file to make sure it worked. I'll read the substance this weekend.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205428) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:39 AM Author: French university
Yeah I definitely will, thanks.
I just hope a journal would find the topic interesting... My big obstacle is that lower ranked schools might not be too interested in this, but without an offer from one of them it'll be extremely hard to be seriously considered by the high ranked schools, who would likely be very interested in this. Ugh.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205449) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:46 AM Author: French university
Doesn't look like any exist:
http://www.lawreview.org/
Seems like all the "general journals" are flagship law reviews, no secondary general journal. All the secondary ones seem to focus on specific topics.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205475) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:49 AM Author: French university
Speaking of secondary journals, this is the only on-point one that I'd be able to submit to:
http://www.law2.byu.edu/jel/
The other education journals either require exclusive publication rights (South Carolina) or are peer reviewed and do not allow submissions to other journals (Journal of Legal Education at GULC).
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205483) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:54 AM Author: French university
Ugh, and it looks like my article might be too long even after all the edits I did:
http://www.law.upenn.edu/labor/new%20website/submissions.html
So far I'm more than double over their word limit. I guess if I gutted the rankings themselves and just focused on what influences employment placement, I might be able to get it to work. Then again, I probably should just not bother since it's probably too much of a tangent for them. Ugh.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205499) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:22 AM Author: curious awkward abode
120.
A real xfer would never say something like this:
And, I'm a transfer, which means that ZERO members of the actual class of 2006 at Yale accepted offers from Cravath.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205186) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:47 AM Author: curious awkward abode
What would have been your second choice had you not landed CSM? Why'd you xfer -- do you want to clerk/academe (which UC is great for)?
Yea, but having your name there lessens the possibility of it being a fake.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205309) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:01 AM Author: curious awkward abode
Look at my moniker and email -- am I someone who has always wanted to be around Bruce and Akhil? Staying at the top is a valid concern, but you'd always be on the review. I assume you can't make YLJ?
Are you from TX, or just thing Susman is cool?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205354)
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Date: June 13th, 2005 7:03 PM Author: Shimmering aphrodisiac water buffalo plaza
you drool over billing 2500 hours a year?
nice fucking life.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#3005094) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:10 AM Author: curious awkward abode
SLS is similar to YLS in class size and accepting a relatively few # of xfers.
NYU/CLS would be totally different. There are 400 people per class and like 50 transfers.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205384) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:16 AM Author: curious awkward abode
SLS is too small to do that, though. CLS/NYU expand the class by like 10%. Stanford's class would expand by 30% if they did it similarly.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205402)
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Date: February 25th, 2005 2:03 PM Author: Cowardly heady private investor sound barrier
When I had my Cravath callback, one of my interviews was with an alum of my school, which also historically has had trouble recruiting there. We talked a bit about it and I think agreed that part of the reason was that Cravath had more of a sweatshop reputation than other comparable NYC firms...a reputation this person felt was undeserved, because, according to them, they work no more hours than DPW etc...
The person also mentioned that if you wanted a US attorney job, Cravath was not the feeder, but other firms were, so don't come to Cravath if that is your grand plan.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2207014) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:47 PM Author: coral dopamine telephone
You're definitely not crazy for going to Cravath. I'm also a YLS 2L, and I've noticed that people here make choices about firms that are quite strange and faddish. Wilmer is this year's big winner; in addition to its NYC crew, it also has another 8 or so YLS folks in DC. It's honestly pretty bizarre that people here prefer Cleary, Debevoise, and Paul Weiss over Cravath and S&C (in NYC); and Wilmer, O'Melveny, and Jenner over W&C, Covington, and Mayer (in DC). The only explanations for the madness are 3Ls' stories about working at their firms, and firms' efforts to raise their YLS profile. Wilmer and OMM, for example, are really really visible--Dellinger gave a talk here in the fall, and Wilmer organized a YLS reception during the ACS convention last summer.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2208033) |
Date: February 25th, 2005 3:19 AM Author: contagious hilarious faggotry
Well, thank God. The more smart kids, like Yalies, that stay the hell out of my way the better. I hope they all pursue appellate glory arguing about whether men can buttpeck each other and whether I can wipe my arse with the flag.
Cravath money is pretty good and the exit options are supposed to be amazing, assuming you dont make partner.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205164) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:23 AM Author: Laughsome house toaster
they have only 4 tax partners...
and what do you mean by "amazing exit options"?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205192) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:27 AM Author: contagious hilarious faggotry
Well I didnt say making partner was easy, obviously.
I always hear the Cravath name on a resume opens a ton of doors in many areas. In-house legal work, other law firms, starting your own law firm, going to consulting or banking or other business things, etc. etc. etc.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205208) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:28 AM Author: Laughsome house toaster
arguments like "cravath provides great exit options" usually sound like arguments of the form "Harvard Law School provides great exit options-- you can transfer down to any school so easily!"
ya dig?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205217) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:34 AM Author: contagious hilarious faggotry
so what? the reality is that not many people will be making partner at cravath. but "transferring down" from there will probably still give a better result than if one had gone to another firm.
and for the people who go into banking/business, maybe they'll make even more than if they'd made partner @ cravath.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205246) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:43 AM Author: Laughsome house toaster
oh, i'm just saying it's so specific to your practice area/client contacts taht generalizations as between *firms* is dumb.
e.g. Thacher Proffitt will provide much better exit options into e.g. the securitization divisions of the top i-banks than will wachtell, since wachtell just doesn't do much of that.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205298) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:47 AM Author: contagious hilarious faggotry
yeah that's very true, the whole practice groups thing. but cravath is supposedly pretty strong in almost all their groups, if not the very highest firm.
how about credit markets, especially junk bond trading. any idea if any law firms get involved with the legal end of that? that's been kinda catching my interest lately.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205308) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:49 AM Author: Laughsome house toaster
Latham & Watkins immediately comes to mind with respect to that.
Find out which firms act as counsel to the banks that issue thsoe securities.
Drexel Burnham Lambert was tops in that, but then they split-- mostly to DLJ-LA, and a few to UBS-LA. DLJ LA became CSFB LA. I think Latham does most of their work.
Therefore, if you want to be a big dick doing junk bond issuances, much better to go to the Latham than e.g. Wachtell. I don't think Cravath does too much of this, but i'm not sure-- i know they do tons of M&A.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205317) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:52 AM Author: contagious hilarious faggotry
oh yeah drexel burnham lambert, michael milken and all that. his odd-looking face is on my desk top at the moment!
latham, that's actually the first biglaw firm i ever heard of. they have a chicago office too, i wonder if that office gets involved in low grade bond issues and stuff.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205323) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 3:48 AM Author: contagious hilarious faggotry
i just mean the top biglaw firms in general, not necessarily cravath in particular.
never having gone to any of the firms it's pretty hard to say which one i'd pick, given the options. k&e is cool cuz i like chicago though.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205312) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 4:06 AM Author: Laughsome house toaster
"i have no idea what my chances will be at either one, since i'm not in law school yet."
The fact taht you are not in law school bars you from opining on your chances at getting a job at one of these firms, yet the fact that you are not in law school does not bar you from acting as an expert on various other aspects of legal careers??
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205366) |
Date: February 25th, 2005 9:32 AM Author: Copper Sanctuary
There's someone at CLS who transferred from Chicago Law. He's a gunner.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205856) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 10:27 AM Author: Federal kitchen
Yeah, I know who you're talking about. Wasn't too sad to see him go, in all honesty.
But I know the OP, if he is who he says he is, and I'm surprised he'd post in such a way. Prove it: post the initials of one of the people you were supposed to live with this year before you bailed for New Haven.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205954) |
Date: February 25th, 2005 10:31 AM Author: Razzmatazz dull site hairy legs
Hey mwallens, your story reminds of what happened with Columbia and Cravath in the mid-90's. A bunch of the Columbia law review staff working at Cravath one summer had a horrible experience, spread the word about their dissatisfaction, and in the following year Cravath was not able to recruit anyone from Columbia. Obviously, Cravath has repaired its reputation with Columbia since then, but something similar might be happening with Yale. Peer assessments have a strong influence on people's decisionmaking.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2205964) |
Date: February 25th, 2005 11:47 AM Author: Odious flesh casino
What the fuck is it with Wilmer?
We sent like 4 or 5 people there this past summer, and everyone who had an offer took it, turning down W&C among others.
What's the deal?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2206245) |
Date: February 25th, 2005 12:27 PM Author: spruce orchestra pit
Mwallens -
On the interview circuit, did you meet any Chicago grads who seemed offended (perhaps that's too strong of a word) by your decision to transfer?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2206431) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 1:17 PM Author: aromatic dog poop
Hey MW,
I'm going to be a 1L at YLS this fall. I'm not really interested in academia or clerking at all, and it seems like that isn't your path either. That said, do you find it a bit suffocating over there, and are you able to have your needs/interests met?
Thanks.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2206733) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 1:27 PM Author: Flushed business firm
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2206811) |
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Date: February 25th, 2005 1:57 PM Author: Cowardly heady private investor sound barrier
Congrats on Susman, I know someone headed there as well.
What was the Susman yield at YLS? Did many interview there?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2206983) |
Date: February 25th, 2005 4:41 PM Author: fear-inspiring sandwich
mwallens - where are the other YLS transfers from? I heard there's one from GW and one from Emory. Do you know what their class rank was?
I'm just curious since I applied and was rejected as a transfer.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2207987) |
Date: February 25th, 2005 6:21 PM Author: Amethyst national stock car
Hey, MWallens, same is true at Chicago.... even though the "yield" was higher than one, Cravath had to go pretty deep into the class to get people. No L.Rev'ers at CSM from the U of C.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2208803)
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Date: June 13th, 2005 9:48 PM Author: Abnormal police squad
actually i hear the same is true for all of ccn. sorry.
at any rate i cannot see why anyone would want to work there in the first place.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#3006511) |
Date: February 25th, 2005 11:21 PM Author: peach dingle berry pistol
I'm at Fordham right now. Fordham definitely had one kid with the initials "J.C." transfer to Harvard.
Another Fordham Law student transferred to Yale either last summer or the summer before. Do you know that person, M.Wallens?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#2210655) |
Date: June 13th, 2005 9:11 PM Author: twinkling filthy rigpig stage
Congrats, man.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=141092&forum_id=2#3006206) |
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