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REMINDER: top trial lawyers arent generally the top 10% T14 type
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 10:26 PM Author: At-the-ready Trump Supporter Foreskin am clerking and the best AUSA in my district went to a TTTT (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15960215) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 10:27 PM Author: Gold trip location nah ding, check out Bartlit Beck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15960224) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 10:27 PM Author: Ruddy Insecure Principal's Office Puppy "Bartlit Beck is the nation's premier law firm"
lol |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 10:32 PM Author: bright trailer park r00d (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15960274) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 12:37 AM Author: obsidian crusty meetinghouse lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15961364) |
Date: September 3rd, 2010 10:43 PM Author: Elite Ticket Booth You can't teach superb public speaking skills and swagger. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15960382) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 1:34 AM Author: sapphire charismatic gaping indian lodge cr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15961683) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 10:44 PM Author: Hilarious anal locus double fault why would a superstudying dork be the best at trial lawyering? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15960387) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 10:44 PM Author: medicated floppy prole no shit. the peeps who won mock trial and shit were not at the top of the class (or at least not the very top). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15960390) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 10:45 PM Author: Hilarious anal locus double fault isn't mock trial ridiculed at T14 schools? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15960402) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 10:48 PM Author: medicated floppy prole i think this is a bit general. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15960421) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 10:50 PM Author: Hilarious anal locus double fault Perhaps.
Also I'm not sure the people who do mock trial are necessarily the best trial lawyers either, but there's probably a correlation. |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 10:51 PM Author: medicated floppy prole i would just assume that interest, drive, etc. would create a fairly strong positive correlation between people who are good trial lawyers and those who choose to participate in mock trial. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15960449) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 10:52 PM Author: Hilarious anal locus double fault probably right.
I bet Law Review doesn't tend to have many great trial lawyers. |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 11:50 PM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house Who the hell has the time to do all the cite-checking and writing from LR
and then turn around a properly prepare for Mock Trial.
The two require a different set of skills and you don't have enough time to excel at BOTH and still maintain your studies. |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 12:12 PM Author: flickering electric travel guidebook hominid "i would just assume that interest, drive, etc. would create a fairly strong positive correlation between people who are good trial lawyers and those who choose to participate in mock trial." without even introducing evidence to the contrary, i want to point out that this is Mom Logic, and so almost certainly wrong |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 11:49 PM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house Because they suck at trial advocacy in general. At least Stanford did when my partner and I beat the shit outta them in a National Competition.
However, their defense mechanism is "well of course non-14 school would be good at trial advocacy, they're not a top tier school so their students don't spend time studying for anything else"
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Date: September 4th, 2010 2:22 AM Author: Cerebral point regret you're a fucking idiot. moot court and mock trial teams at T6 schools don't attract the best talent at those schools because they are not seen as very prestigious. at your TTT schools, moot court and mock trial are a BIG FUCKING DEAL which is why they attract the most talented students at those schools. so those chumps you saw from stanford were not anywhere close to the best stanford had to offer. but continue getting your self-confidence from somewhere, TTToileteer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15961973) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:33 AM Author: ungodly transparent den tcr. Some TTTs even treat moot court / mock trial as a class and give students credit for it. I once did a moot court competition against some TTT florida school and the student told me he was getting 2 credits for moot court. LOL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962362) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:40 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino i am a shitty law student at a shitty school, THEREFORE i will be a great lawyer.
TTT logic is excellent. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:36 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house Thank you all for proving my point.
"I suck at something, THEREFORE I must trash it so that I can feel better about myself and maintain my over-inflated sense of prestige.
insecure logic is excellent. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:53 AM Author: ungodly transparent den PS: I soundly beat that TTT student despite the fact tht he received credit for it and spent prob. 3-4 times the amount of time prepping. HTH. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:55 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house PS: I, too, beat the shit out of students from lower ranked schools and even T-14 schools.
PPS: Nobody really cares.
HTFH |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:14 AM Author: ungodly transparent den This is some real circular, TTT logic considering you implied we were only bashing TTTs bc they're better than us at moot court. Idiot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962775) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:21 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house You must not know what "circular logic" means.
The original point of this sub-thread was that Mock Trial is bashed by t-14s.
I replied that the possible cause of such disparating remarks was a case of rotten grapes.
You bragged about beating a "TTT" school in a competition.
I replied that I have beaten lower and HIGHER ranked schools.
I concluded by stating that nobody gives a shit.
Not seeing any conclusory statements. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:59 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino the point is that most people will not be top trial lawyers period. your pointing out that most top 14 magna students won't be top trial lawyers won't help your or your TTT friends be top trial lawyers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962707) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:04 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house Being a "top trial lawyer" is as subjective as being considered a "top corporate lawyer" or a "top M&A lawyer".
Even if you properly laid out the objective criteria for what is a "top trial lawyer" you haven't disproven anything in this thread considering the very nature of being "top" of anything means that the MAJORITY of people involved in the matter are ranked beneath you.
The point of this thread is:
Your grades and LSAT score are not a strong or even reasonable predictor of your ability or potential to be a "top trial lawyer". |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:06 AM Author: Bespoke aromatic reading party *facepalm* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962740) |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 10:58 AM Author: hideous potus center yale gives credit for moot court (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#16002693) |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 11:51 PM Author: Galvanic french theatre Being in the top 10% at a highly ranked school all but requires being a total striver.
Developing excellent trial skills all but requires taking an unprestigious job starting out (non-white collar crim, personal injury, etc.).
A striver will not pursue an unprestigious job.
Thus, it is highly unlikely that such a person will be in a position to develop excellent trial skills. |
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Date: September 3rd, 2010 11:53 PM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house Plus there is the fact mid-law to BIGLAW are handling large/complicated matters that cost too much to have some junior associate go to trial over.
IF AND WHEN the case goes to trial, chances are it is a bet-the-farm-issue that you only want the Senior Partner handling. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 12:05 AM Author: At-the-ready Trump Supporter Foreskin sounds like shit pure shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15961114) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 12:33 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house Wonderful retort, I'm awed by your persuasive skills. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15961341) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:41 AM Author: Bespoke aromatic reading party This. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962620) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 12:07 AM Author: nighttime razzle-dazzle station circlehead this
real lawyering is a talent that has nothing to do with lsat or grades |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 12:07 AM Author: At-the-ready Trump Supporter Foreskin how do you develop it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15961133) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 3:11 AM Author: Provocative elastic band practice public speaking...gaining and keeping an audience's interest is a skill that can only be improved through repetition. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962181) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:16 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house More importantly, you have to watch other practioners in action.
Reptition in addition to observation is the best learning too.
Not to mention that you need to have years of experience before you can do the RIGHT thing from habit. |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 10:52 AM Author: zombie-like unholy crackhouse do alot of jury trials. and watch the masters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#16002659) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 12:35 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house You must be new around here.
According to xoxo, life is either credited or TTT.
There is no in-between.
Unless you graduated above median from a t-14, then you are fucked for life and must pine away hoping to get a CB with shitlaw steve's firm.
P.S.
I almost forgot the obligatory hth |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 1:37 AM Author: Chocolate church this is what im banking on. i cant wait to do this, seriously. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15961696) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 3:21 AM Author: bearded mental disorder dilemma you'll fail. aspies don't understand the people who show up for jury duty (or why anybody would show up). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962203) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:42 AM Author: Self-centered Bawdyhouse Corn Cake lol ok (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962377) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 3:26 AM Author: walnut disturbing lay detail oriented, non emotional (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962217) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 3:17 AM Author: Mahogany goyim Yeah, but most here have no interest in being trial attorneys. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962195) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:23 AM Author: glittery cordovan business firm jap Trial work isn't that great.
For the most part you're dealing with lots of idiots. Jurors are idiots. The witnesses are usually idiots. If you're in state court, the judge is probably an idiot.
Go be a fucking marketer or car salesman if you like dealing with idiots for a living. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:30 AM Author: haunting frisky azn Top trial attorneys laugh at biglaw wages. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962357) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:33 AM Author: glittery cordovan business firm jap That's fine, but what does that have to do with what I said? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962361) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:35 AM Author: haunting frisky azn You wouldn't mind dealing with idiots all day if it resulted in a 7 or 8 figure income. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962363) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:35 AM Author: glittery cordovan business firm jap You still wouldn't like it. It would just make it easier to live with.
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:36 AM Author: haunting frisky azn I don't enjoy being around intellectual law types (aspies). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962366) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:37 AM Author: glittery cordovan business firm jap You don't have to be around them. They're in their offices researching and writing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962368) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:39 AM Author: haunting frisky azn Well, I don't enjoy being in an intellectual environment, period. I'm a law student, but I don't enjoy the atmosphere at all. I'd rather be down at a local hole in the wall bar shooting the shit with the locals. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962372) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:47 AM Author: glittery cordovan business firm jap Then you need to work at a slip-and-fall, blue-car-red-car insurance defense firm. Or you need to do public sector criminal work, either as a prosecutor or public defender.
Everything else is going to require a fair amount of motion practice.
Condemnation work is probably the only other private sector area that has lots of jury trials. (But governments are not doing a lot of condemnations right now.) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:48 AM Author: haunting frisky azn I'm a JD/MBA student, brah. Not all that interested in legal work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962390) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:38 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino hahaha most of the accident lawyers you're talking about don't make 7 figs because they are "great trial lawyers," they do it through marketing and settling all their cases. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962371) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:40 AM Author: haunting frisky azn Who said they are great trial lawyers? My point is that no one here would have a problem dealing with poors, dumbs, uglies, olds, etc if it resulted in a 7 or 8 figure income. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962374) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:42 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino of course not, but no one here, or at your TTT, is going to make 7 figures as a trial lawyer either. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962379) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:43 AM Author: haunting frisky azn 1. I don't attend a TTT 2. You don't know who will make what. If you can foresee things like this, use those powers and select a winning lotto ticket and make $100mm+ overnight. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:46 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino 1. yes you do.
2. are you ten years old? |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:47 AM Author: haunting frisky azn 1. What's the name of my school (since you know everything)? 2. If you know everything about who will make what, use those powers to select the correct lotto numbers and make 9 figures. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:49 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino you don't know ANYTHING
*storms out of thread crying* |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:48 AM Author: Bespoke aromatic reading party Odds are overwhelming that neither you nor anyone you know is going to make 7 figures as a trial attorney.
If you think you can just overcome those odds, then it is you that should be playing the lottery. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:04 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house Actually,
The reason why they make 7 figs through "settling all their cases" is because insurance companies recognize that the lawyer is a great trial lawyer and they will get BIGVERDICTPWND.
Better to settle for $250k then risk getting popped for $500k in trial ONTOP of atty's fees. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:43 AM Author: Bespoke aromatic reading party As do guys who win the lottery. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962633) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:02 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house You are the reason why people believe lawyers are arrogant assholes.
Who the fuck do you think you are to judge somebody's intelligence?
Please edit or diaf. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:49 AM Author: Bespoke aromatic reading party Actually, it's often quite easy to judge someone's intelligence. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962665) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:51 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962673) |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 10:52 AM Author: Fluffy Theater International Law Enforcement Agency tbf, this may shock u but some ppl actually enjoy doing old-fashioned lawyerly trial work. and this may shock u further, but good trial-presence is actually a highly valuable/marketable skill. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#16002658) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:31 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino nfl players aren't usually top 10% at t14s, but you're not going to be one of those either. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962358) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:57 AM Author: nighttime razzle-dazzle station circlehead There's probably a thread on this, but has any NFL player ever attended a T14 law school? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962406) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 8:59 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino after an nfl career? seems very likely someone has. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962409) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:26 AM Author: Cowardly Range Mexican Supreme Court Justice Byron White played in the nfl for three seasons with the Detroit Lions and then entered Yale Law School. He even led the league in rushing in 1938. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962854) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:50 AM Author: Bespoke aromatic reading party Cr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962667) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:40 AM Author: Awkward swashbuckling love of her life home didn't John Edwards go to UNC? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962451) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:40 AM Author: racy pungent half-breed This shouldn't be surprising to anyone. Trial lawyers have to be able to relate to laypeople. That's not a skill tested on the LSAT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962452) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:41 AM Author: Awkward swashbuckling love of her life home and they're less risk averse (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962454) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:43 AM Author: racy pungent half-breed Also a credited point. And I would also guess that they are more likely to come from a working-class background, which might help them relate to a jury. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962459) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:05 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house So. . .what you are saying is that they are less likely to have a stick up their ass? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962499) |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 10:55 AM Author: zombie-like unholy crackhouse you have to be at least be able to fake being likeable to be a good trial attorney. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#16002669) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:53 AM Author: Bespoke aromatic reading party Additionally, "top" trial lawyers need to be extremely lucky. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962679) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:50 AM Author: Primrose house "Developing excellent trial skills all but requires taking an unprestigious job starting out (non-white collar crim, personal injury, etc.)."
Credited response. Think on this to cheer up ITE. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 9:58 AM Author: odious violent ceo set I think a scientific study would find that success as a trial lawyer is correlated with intelligence and discipline just like finishing 10% at a T14 is. But thanks for your anecdote. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962484) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:03 AM Author: racy pungent half-breed LSAT doesn't measure verbal communication skills, creativity, or ability to construct a compelling narrative. Why is it so hard for people to understand that being a top STUDENT doesn't make them some kind of lawyer-ubermensch? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962495) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:08 AM Author: nighttime razzle-dazzle station circlehead this. i love the nerd aspies here that are convinced that academic abilities somehow are the only abilities relevant to success (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962503) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:10 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house TBF,
What else do they have to support their self-esteem?
They can't play a sport
They probably don't/can't get a lot of pussy
They really don't have anything else that makes them stand out in life other than their "credited" scores on a standardized test. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:13 AM Author: racy pungent half-breed Yeah. For some of these people, it's their whole source of identity. That's why they react so strongly when someone points out that academic success is a completely separate thing from IRL success. That's when they start to discount and deny. It's pretty funny. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962520) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:25 AM Author: Self-centered Bawdyhouse Corn Cake I doubt it's a completely separate thing. For one thing, the top 10% at T14 has the best opportunities starting out. But the kind of intelligence and personality that the top of the class/Law Review student has is definitely a bit different from the top trial lawyer's.
Of the Law Review people at my school I can't imagine many being good at trial work. The mock trial types are on secondary journal at best. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:29 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino i think you're missing their point: being academically successful means you won't succeed in life whereas shitty grades mean you will be a great trial lawyer. do you see now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962562) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:31 AM Author: nighttime razzle-dazzle station circlehead i think we're just talking about the nerd rage in this subthread
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:52 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house Nice strawman you built there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962676) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:33 AM Author: racy pungent half-breed Well, maybe I chose those particular words poorly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962579) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:42 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house I think that is a matter of time management.
Trial Advocacy isn't something you can do in your "spare time" if you want to be successful (ie winning competitions)
Same goes LR at T14 or any other school.
You will have to pick which one to dedicate your time and energy towards. |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 12:33 PM Author: irradiated hissy fit national "LSAT doesn't measure verbal communication skills, creativity, or ability to construct a compelling narrative."
But I'd be willing to bet that the kinds of people who can do all these kinds of things very well are also the kinds of people who scored 170+ on their LSAT. |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 1:03 PM Author: racy pungent half-breed Why? A lot of those people come from backgrounds where they had very little contact with the blue-collar, average joes that sit on juries. Maybe they can come up with arguments/stories that are compelling to other intelligent people, but to be a great trial lawyer they have to have the ability to relate to the average person. That's not a skill that has any relationship to doing well on the LSAT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#16003432) |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 1:06 PM Author: irradiated hissy fit national There are plenty of people who rock the LSAT and also grew up blue collar or around many "average joes", or have an ability to relate to all people. These kinds of people make great trial lawyers.
Intelligence is directly related to your LSAT score. People who do poorly on the LSAT aren't going to be good trial lawyers, no matter how good of a common touch they have. The best trial lawyers know how to phrase intelligent arguments in ways that the common people will be able to understand. First step is actually coming up with the intelligent argument. Second step is phrasing it in average joespeak. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:57 AM Author: Bespoke aromatic reading party Definitely agree, but on top of that you need people skills which adds a new dimension. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962700) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:36 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino I hear David Boies only graduated 2nd in his class at YLS. Good thing he wasn't first or he'd have been a shitty trial lawyer. Ted Olson was probably at the very bottom of magna. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962594) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:41 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house Holy shit!
You pointed out two trial lawyers with top grades!
That completely disproves every contrary opinion in this thread! |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:45 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino most top trial lawyers are from top schools and have top grades
lawyers at W&C, Bartlitt Beck, KVN etc. these guys are all from top schools with top grades. when people with money argue in court about things that matter, these are the lawyers they hire. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:51 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house "most top trial lawyers are from top schools and have top grades"
I stopped reading after that drivel.
Please review the list of lawyers who are members of the American College of Trial Lawyers (an organization that requires at least 15 years of trial work before you can be INVITED to join).
"But they are partners in BIGLAW!!!!"
I assure you the majority of them did not gain their trial experience from BIGLAW. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:55 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino this thread is not about biglaw. it's about whether they went to good schools and had good grades. AUSAs in the SDNY are great trial lawyers. they also went to top schools and got good grades.
this is true of lots of the biglaw partners you're talking about, regardless of where they got trial experience. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:57 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house Well now you raise a different question:
Are you a bad Trial lawyer if you have never practiced in "prestigious" trial positions such as AUSA?
It is undeniable that you have to have GREAT grades to get AUSA for SDNY, ask Jim Cramer.
But does the lawyer in Boise, Idaho who has been practicing for 30 years NOT qualify as a great tiral lawyer just because he's never worked for the FED? |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:05 AM Author: Aphrodisiac arrogant haunted graveyard deer antler I would bet about 1k that you didn't break 155 on the LSAT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962730) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:07 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house 123
So what? |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:06 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino if you're asking whether top AUSAs in SDNY are generally better than top lawyers in Boise Idaho, or whether there are many more top lawyers at the AUSA in SDNY than boise idaho (and therefore that my point that "generally top trial lawyers when to top schools and had top grades" is true), the answer is yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962738) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:09 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house That wasn't my point at all.
I never said the "top" trial lawyer in Boise, Idaho was BETTER than the "top" AUSA in SDNY. (altho it is possible, but I don't know how we could objectively measure their careers against one another)
I asked if the trial lawyer in Boise, Idaho is automatically excluded from being called a "top trial lawyer" simply because of his location and lack of experience working for a Federal Prosector's office. |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:10 AM Author: Bespoke aromatic reading party Um...no? Wow you're dumb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962758) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:15 AM Author: Adulterous digit ratio casino let's just call truce, okay bro? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962786) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:26 AM Author: Splenetic jet-lagged national security agency step-uncle's house No prob BroMontana. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962850) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:08 AM Author: Bespoke aromatic reading party edited to be nice :) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962748) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 10:50 AM Author: Aphrodisiac arrogant haunted graveyard deer antler you are amazingly dumb. i mean, holy shit. holy fucking shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962668) |
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Date: September 4th, 2010 11:03 AM Author: Bespoke aromatic reading party (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#15962722) |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 10:44 AM Author: Internet-worthy mad-dog skullcap I've actually looked at this quite a bit.
If we are really focused on the top 1-5% of trial lawyers, I think the vast majority of them crushed the competition in law school but they may not necessarily have gone to top law schools (though a lot of them did). This is very Chicago focused for the most part:
Boies had the highest GPA in the history of Northwestern Law before transferring to Yale for perhaps the most alpha reason in the history of the bar.
Ed Williams, perhaps the nation's best/most famous trial lawyer of all time was at the very top of his class at Georgetown.
Fred Bartlit had the highest gpa in the history of Illinois Law.
Phil Beck was top 5% or so at BU and edited the law review.
Dan Webb talked his way into Loyola Chicago and graduated first in his class.
What's interesting is that a lot of the top trial lawyers I have researched had middling grades in college or barely went to class and then owned it in LS. I think this is very telling. It shows their innate alpha nature and the fact that they aren't strivers but at the same time, they know when to turn it on and perform and are driven by competition. |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 11:04 AM Author: zombie-like unholy crackhouse these people are litigators, not trial attorneys. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#16002707) |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 12:01 PM Author: Internet-worthy mad-dog skullcap Tim Lincecum Andy Pettite Roy Oswalt
Those are baseball players, not pitchers. |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 12:31 PM Author: zombie-like unholy crackhouse after reading a bit about Boies he does seem to have a great tril lawyer skills, but he did complex litigation which limited his trial work. There are attorneys who have won more trials in a month than he has in his entire career. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#16003184) |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 11:08 AM Author: Fluffy Theater International Law Enforcement Agency What was Boies' alpha reason for transferring?
also - how did he get into NU if he's so dyslexic he can't even read his own notes? |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 12:12 PM Author: Laughsome Sanctuary Didn't he go there to bang a professor or something? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#16003112) |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 10:58 AM Author: Fluffy Theater International Law Enforcement Agency what an infuriatingly stupid exchange itt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#16002689) |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 12:35 PM Author: rose selfie garrison (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#16003207) |
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Date: September 9th, 2010 1:11 PM Author: Territorial cuckold fortuitous meteor YA, no shit. Law school cant turn one into a fearless, articulate, super ALPHA. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1413863&forum_id=2#16003462) |