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Want to hire someone for $300k/year marketing job; need advice
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:08 PM Author: Laughsome piazza I'm an investor in a start-up with a friend. It's a service business where each customer is worth ~$1k in revenue for the first year and ~$700/year thereafter. The service is valuable and there isn't much competition, but we want lots of customers fast. The industry is health care.
The business as it stands has a capacity of about 2k customers. After a couple of years, we will expand to another geographical area (within the same metro area probably) and open another office, with a capacity of another 2k (we can keep expanding like this, but would need to invest in new equipment etc).
I want to find someone willing to bring us customers for $300/pop, with a target of 1k customers/year. Basically, this would involve lots of bullshit on-the-ground marketing work, including possibly direct mailing, radio, billboards, email spam, and referrals from local businesses. We don't want the headache of figuring this out ourselves, so we just want to pay someone on a monthly basis for the # of customers they bring in.
The job would be strictly pay-for-performance, but if the guy is good we would be up to keep him on for the following year, and have him keep doing his thing as we expand.
What's the best way to go about advertising for such a job and getting high quality applicants? |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:11 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren do it yourself. honestly, if you get someone 1k clients per year good, he'll take all your clients some place else.
are you the service provider? |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:13 PM Author: Laughsome piazza it's not that type of thing. the guy would lack the specialized skills/reputation/expertise of my friend. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982121) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:14 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren are you looking to 1099 the sales guy or no?
also what exactly are you doing?
and why is the revenue stream higher the first year? very odd. no incentives?
How many months does a customer have to be with your agency to pay out the sales guy?
Also, please tell me you realize 1k sales is absurd, right? |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:18 PM Author: Laughsome piazza yes will 1099 him
the reason the revenue is higher the first year is that part of it comes from an upfront fee and the rest is approximately monthly (the exact breakdown is complicated)
i don't want to go into too much specific outable detail (which i know makes this thread very annoying), but basically my friend is in healthcare and is providing a health-related service. it's kind of niche - in the sense that he has very specialized education/training, not in the sense that this is some weird gimmick shit. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:19 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren botox? enemas?
also, just an fyi 1099ing him will probably be illegal and he'll probably rat you out after he fails to reach your absolutely absurd sales targets
You don't need one salesperson, you need at least 5. And you'll probably have to pay a base. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:20 PM Author: Laughsome piazza lol, no i said "niche" not "ubiquitous and played out". the marketing strategy etc would be somewhat analogous to botox in its early years, but this is not cosmetics related.
re the 1099, i don't know how this shit works and will read up on it so i don't say something ignorant. i wanted to avoid paying a base, because i want to light a fire under the guy's ass to bring us customers. i also wanted to, if possible, keep the number of employees at 1-2 so i can make it worth their while. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:21 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren you haven't done any market research. you're wasting my time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982178) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:23 PM Author: Laughsome piazza we already have like 300 customers dood, with extremely steady cash flow. we know how this thing works. we're getting new customers at a rate of like 15-20 a month just based on word of mouth. the only advertising we've done is some local magazine ads. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982195) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:24 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren please tell me you're inc'd.
Don't be cheap. hire a CPA. talk to him about this, rather than people on Autoadmit. You're asking a board rife with unemployed people who entered the oversaturated JD market for financial advice.
Also, do some fucking market research. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:26 PM Author: Laughsome piazza we are, and we have an accountant, i'm just not very involved in the day to day. my participation in this only increased over the summer. originally i had just provided half the seed money, about a year ago. the friend is doing all the real work. right now we're trying to figure out ways to get big.
also what do you mean market research? we know the target demographics for our customers, if that's what you mean.
re asking xoxo, this isn't my only source of advice. i'm just seeing if there are smart doods on here that have recommendations. i'll tell my friend to ask the accountant for his input as well, but i don't think he's much of a marketing expert. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:32 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren Jesus Fucking Christ. Is this flame?
Go to a business library. Read some case studies. See how many workers are average in given enterprise or that 1000 clients (not leads) is outrageous for one person. You have no concept of sales. Also, work there. You're wasting your own labor value.
Ignorance, not a legal defence, bro.
DO SOME MARKET RESEARCH. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:38 PM Author: Laughsome piazza look man, i don't need advice for how to figure out the tax treatment etc. of this employee. for that we will obviously consult a professional. i'm talking about ways to go about finding a suitable employee capable of getting us customers (or whether this is even possible).
ill see if i can find some relevant case studies but i'm pretty doubtful. this is a small business in a service industry, and we basically just need a guy to go around to gyms, spas, local offices, etc. and put our name out there, as well as figure out a good advertising strategy (billboards, radio, tv, newspapers, etc)
i just threw the 1k number because it's round. if we can get 5 guys to get 200 leads a piece, or 20 guys to get 50 leads, that's fine too, but we want to pay $300/lead flat.
you're right that i don't know anything about sales. that's the point of this thread and the google research i'm going to be doing in the next few days. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:43 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren DO MARKET RESEARCH.
YOURE LOOKING FOR ROBOSALESMAN (TO TRIPLE YOUR CLIENTS IN A YEAR) AND MARKETING (ADVERTISING).
THATS 2 SEPARATE JOBS. THEYRE EVALUATED DIFFERENTLY. MARKETING GENERALLY BRINGS IN LEADS AND HYPES UP INTEREST(excluding coldcalls). SALES BRINGS IN CLIENTS.
LEADS =/= CLIENTS
LULZ AT "GOOGLE RESEARCH". Most online business databases are proprietary and not free. Most business libraries have free access to these sites, but suit yourself bro. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:50 PM Author: Laughsome piazza - first, why would we be locked up? we're not doing anything illegal. any hiring that we do will be completely by the books and with the advice of professionals.
- we want to hire a guy who's going to be in charge of bringing us customers. whether that involves more of a sales approach (like direct mailing) or marketing (like radio ads) is irrelevant to me. it would only matter when it comes time to attribute individual customers to the marketing guy's efforts vs. other factors (like word of mouth). we would negotiate such terms in teh employment agreement with the employee.
- don't be so fixated on the "robosalesman" thing. if the initial # i threw out was wildly unrealistic, that's OK, we'll just revise our targets, hire more than 1 guy, or whatever. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:52 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren http://www.amazon.com/Ogilvy-Advertising-David/dp/039472903X
Buy this.
The guy's an obvious douchebag, but he knows what he's doing. Do marketing yourself since you don't seem to be doing much else. Let sales do sales. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:53 PM Author: Laughsome piazza ty - but is it still relevant in 2010?
btw, i see that you've edited a lot of your above posts after i had already started replying. what does this mean:
"Also, give up. You have no clue how healthcare works. You bribe duty nurses at hospitals and GP secretaries. HTH"
?
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:56 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren YES. Some of it's obvious, but it's right. Direct mailings are your bread and butter.
Hire sales. Do Marketing yourself. Do it before Sales. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:02 PM Author: Laughsome piazza interesting thanks for your perspectives in this thread (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982560) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:07 PM Author: rebellious forum hominid lol @ "kickbacks" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982614) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:11 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren it really kicks in with large accounts and intermediaries where the salesperson getting the account gives something under the table to XYZ, but this happens too. bribe would probably be a more appropriate word, I suppose. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982677) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:25 PM Author: Passionate Hilarious Heaven Puppy God, I hate people like you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982207) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:27 PM Author: Laughsome piazza why? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982229) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:06 PM Author: multi-colored yellow depressive mood if he hates you for the same reasons i hate you, then it has a lot to do with your idiocy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982603) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:35 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren Ditto. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982285) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:01 PM Author: multi-colored yellow depressive mood why would it be "illegal" to "1099 him"? be careful - i know a lot about this stuff. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982543) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:04 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren let's just say I do too.
If you give him an office (that he doesn't rent - how most insurance co's get around this) and he takes instruction (specific), he's not.
You can do this btw, but they can generally work for someone else at the same time. Problematic if there's local competition. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:05 PM Author: multi-colored yellow depressive mood good move here. you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and i'm pretty sure you realize that i know way more about this than you ever could, so you're stepping away. again, good call. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982595) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:12 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren LOL asshole. Not really. Most 1099s are misclassified (even though nothing generally happens), except in insurance, misc other sales in large companies, and subs.
I was fucking with the d00d about getting sodomized in prison, but if you run a small business with 3 people, the sales guy is almost definitely an employee, mostly since you won't want him working for the other guy in town (I'm assuming?) and because in practice he generally gets instructions from "the boss". You'd probably have to SS-8 yourself to find out for certain, and no one in their right mind does that.
I dealt with small business for years and in my job I currently deal with the aftermaths of persons failing to properly run their small businesses, so die in a fire. I just finished inc'ing another corporation this week, too.
One of the biggest 1099 frauds going is with illegals and their TINs. Again, unlikely to go anywhere.
Sorry about your tiny pink 120 credit accounting degree. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:32 PM Author: Mentally impaired sienna gunner "We don't want the headache of figuring this out ourselves, so we just want to pay someone on a monthly basis for the # of customers they bring in."
That's contrary to your assumption about getting instructions. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:37 PM Author: Sable Disgusting Library Brethren You don't know what an SS-8 is?
It's a form you fill out to have the IRS determine whether or not someone is an independent contractor.
Of course, I'm recommending compliance with all laws, but a CPA should be able to tell you about IC related IRC, you don't have to ask the IRS.
Also, you're confusing what I'm saying to do and what is commonly done. One's prescriptive and one's descriptive.
Yeah, sure you can drop a 1099 on a salesperson in a small business. I'm not recommending that, unless it's actually the case and the person's really an IC. You'll probably never get audited since it's a salesperson, unless you file a SS-8.
You can also run a red light at 2 AM. When you do so, similarly you probably don't call the police and tell them about it and ask if you violated any laws. |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:44 PM Author: Mentally impaired sienna gunner Jesus fucking Christ. Were you really intending to respond to my post?
Are you retarded? |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:26 PM Author: Mentally impaired sienna gunner "botox? enemas?"
Botox enemas.
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:09 PM Author: cordovan philosopher-king stead sales (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982086) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:10 PM Author: Free-loading Embarrassed To The Bone Background Story so call alec baldwin, then if he refuses (as he will, as he makes more than that) go for jack lemmon? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982094) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:11 PM Author: cordovan philosopher-king stead justin bieber (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982103) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:14 PM Author: shimmering orchestra pit electric furnace you call yourself a salesman, you sonuvabitch? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982127) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:15 PM Author: Laughsome piazza how do you hire someone for an independent sales job? i don't know anything about this shit, but i'd imagine you have to go through some faggot agency who doesn't guarantee results and/or has lots of weird terms and conditions. plus the setup i describe has the salesman profiting all the fruits of his work, whereas with an agency the guy would split it with his company and take home a small fraction, which kills his incentives. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982136) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:13 PM Author: useless bateful knife parlour Go to a marketing headhunter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982125) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:16 PM Author: Passionate Hilarious Heaven Puppy Sounds like you are starting a gym. The market is saturated, ape. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982140) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 9:59 PM Author: Bull headed alpha theater Something tells me this will crash and burn horribly (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982515) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:03 PM Author: Laughsome piazza actually it's already moving along decently, we just want to take it to the next level (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982571) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:04 PM Author: Bull headed alpha theater 1k sales/year sounds crazy, if the guy is likely to start off cold calling and shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15982586) |
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Date: September 6th, 2010 10:08 PM Author: Laughsome piazza no cold calling. it's not the type of business where customers will respond to being cold called.
as guvnor pointed out above, the most promising technique at first will be direct mailing. we'll also do a bunch of advertising, probably starting with newspaper ads and radio spots.
1k customers/year is a lot, but we already have ~300 in the first year and have a steady stream of new customers almost entirely through WOM/referrals |
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Date: September 7th, 2010 10:30 AM Author: fantasy-prone skinny woman crackhouse You're obviously FLAME. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1416327&forum_id=2#15985973) |