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GMAT is such bullshit

Fuck this example math problem. For any integer k > 1,...
white therapy
  08/27/11
you're too dumb to solve a simple math problem, therefore th...
Insecure internet-worthy boltzmann
  08/27/11
lol solve this simple problem bro without google
white therapy
  08/27/11
i think the answer should be 8. x=99, y=300 prime factors...
lascivious crystalline goyim hell
  08/27/11
sorry bro
white therapy
  08/27/11
i think it's 16. since the prime numbers do not have to ...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
this. Congrats if you didnt google.
white therapy
  08/27/11
nope. didn't google. i took it last year, so it's still fres...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
Fuck my ass brother. Seriously. Can you?
white therapy
  08/27/11
I know all the math, but stuff like "oh you max the dig...
white therapy
  08/27/11
yeah, the key to gmat quant is knowing how to simplify the p...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
Ya man. I just had a question about 2 cars types and 4 color...
white therapy
  08/27/11
Without a calculator how the hell does one get 2^9?
Maize Philosopher-king
  08/27/11
bro...
Silver crackhouse psychic
  08/27/11
it helps to memorize these for the gmat. i memorized every e...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
keep dividing by 2 brother. thats how I do it.
white therapy
  08/27/11
You definitely want to memorize powers of 2 up to 2^10=1024....
Bright business firm nibblets
  08/27/11
i use game systems - the X in 2^X is one number ahead of the...
Fuchsia Rehab Place Of Business
  08/27/11
stopped playing at 64, ps1 :(
sienna flatulent puppy
  08/27/11
damn dude, why?? you've missed so much and great things are...
Fuchsia Rehab Place Of Business
  08/27/11
ikr brother. i guess i just started occupying free time with...
sienna flatulent puppy
  08/27/11
jesus christ STUPID 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 ...
high-end canary famous landscape painting university
  08/27/11
How long have you been studying for the GMAT brother?
Maize Philosopher-king
  08/27/11
2-3 weeks?
white therapy
  08/27/11
What material have you reviewed? When do you plan to take t...
Maize Philosopher-king
  08/27/11
Manhattan. 2 weeks. FML. 680 yesterday. Getting so much s...
white therapy
  08/27/11
Have you completed the books?
Maize Philosopher-king
  08/27/11
Ya bro. Twice. 700+ SAT math. FML
white therapy
  08/27/11
manhattan gmat books for verbal, especially for sentence cor...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
The manhattan practice tests online cuz old GMAT questions, ...
white therapy
  08/27/11
definitely tough part about the test. i don't think the gmat...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
I need 720+ brother. I' upper 600s with a TON of mistakes an...
white therapy
  08/27/11
you're on a good track if you're getting high 600's despite ...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
Brother. I've done 3 exams. On my last 2, I have gotten the ...
white therapy
  08/27/11
ok; that's obviously a HUGE problem. gotta get the first 4 t...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
Brother. I could have sworn to you yesterday that 2/25 was n...
white therapy
  08/27/11
about to start business school
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
I can get around a 44 verbal and 44 math score. That should ...
white therapy
  08/27/11
what schools are you gunning for? your verbal is fine (proba...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
...
white therapy
  08/27/11
good luck. i applied to 4 of those schools and will be start...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
80 percentile math is 48. Shit man. If I could get there I'd...
white therapy
  08/27/11
2 years banking, 3 years at a long/short equity hedge fund. ...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
...
white therapy
  08/27/11
to be honest, bro, it will be very tough to get into a M7 bu...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
...
white therapy
  08/27/11
a place like accenture is fine, but the work needs to be som...
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
...
white therapy
  08/27/11
wow, fuck that shit. i got an 800M back in the day and i'm n...
Electric deer antler wrinkle
  08/27/11
Lol@ the tards t hat post here
shivering yarmulke factory reset button
  08/27/11
This isn't a math forum you ching chang chong, ching chong c...
purple home
  08/27/11
ching chong ding dong fuck you
sienna flatulent puppy
  08/27/11
just take the GRE bro
Federal digit ratio
  08/27/11
Man, problems like the one above is a daily reminder of how ...
Jet diverse chapel
  08/27/11
TBF, that is a hard problem designed to separate HBS from St...
white therapy
  08/27/11
I would definitely not have correctly answered that problem,...
Nubile copper queen of the night
  08/27/11
Quant is so unforgiving though. http://www.mba.com/the-gmat/...
white therapy
  08/27/11
yup. it's the chinese and indians.
Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested
  08/27/11
Somewhat true. I'll probably put a few weeks of prep in and...
Nubile copper queen of the night
  08/27/11


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:02 PM
Author: white therapy

Fuck this example math problem.

For any integer k > 1, the term “length of an integer” refers to the number of positive prime factors, not necessarily distinct, whose product is equal to k. For example, if k = 24, the length of k is equal to 4, since 24 = 2 × 2 × 2 × 3. If x and y are positive integers such that x > 1, y > 1, and x + 3y < 1000, what is the maximum possible sum of the length of x and the length of y?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849133)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:07 PM
Author: Insecure internet-worthy boltzmann

you're too dumb to solve a simple math problem, therefore the GMAT is bullshit?

polisci shitheads are hilarious

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849165)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:08 PM
Author: white therapy

lol solve this simple problem bro without google

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849177)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:08 PM
Author: lascivious crystalline goyim hell

i think the answer should be 8. x=99, y=300

prime factors of 99: 11, 3, 3

prime factors of 300: 3, 5, 2, 2, 5

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849181)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:10 PM
Author: white therapy

sorry bro

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849198)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:16 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

i think it's 16.

since the prime numbers do not have to be distinct, we can say that x=2^9, which is 512. so that's a length of 9. y can then be 2^7, which is 128 since x+3y will still be less than 1000. so 9+7=16.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849240)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:20 PM
Author: white therapy

this.

Congrats if you didnt google.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849262)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:20 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

nope. didn't google. i took it last year, so it's still fresh on my mind.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849266)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:22 PM
Author: white therapy

Fuck my ass brother. Seriously. Can you?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849268)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:23 PM
Author: white therapy

I know all the math, but stuff like "oh you max the digits I need the highest value for x that is divisible by 2 and then take the remaining highest y that is divisible by 2 and then see how those prime factors add up.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849271)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:25 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

yeah, the key to gmat quant is knowing how to simplify the problem right after reading it. given that you only have an average of 2 minutes per problem, that's the key factor. the actual math, as you very well know, is pretty simple.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849279)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:31 PM
Author: white therapy

Ya man. I just had a question about 2 cars types and 4 colors and each car had to be in a different color. I completely missed that fact there are only 8 options. That would have made it so much easier.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849314)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:24 PM
Author: Maize Philosopher-king

Without a calculator how the hell does one get 2^9?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849273)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:27 PM
Author: Silver crackhouse psychic

bro...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849293)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:27 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

it helps to memorize these for the gmat. i memorized every exponent of 2 up to the 10th power and every perfect square up to 20.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849296)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:27 PM
Author: white therapy

keep dividing by 2 brother. thats how I do it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849297)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:47 PM
Author: Bright business firm nibblets

You definitely want to memorize powers of 2 up to 2^10=1024. I would memorize all squares up to ~25 also, eg. 17^2=289

Actually squares up to 20 is prob good enough

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849420)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:48 PM
Author: Fuchsia Rehab Place Of Business

i use game systems - the X in 2^X is one number ahead of the generation of video game consoles (SNES is 2^5, but is part of the 4th generation)

2-bit

4-bit (pong / magnavox odyssey -- 2^2)

8-bit (Ataria 2600 / Intellivision -- 2^3)

16-bit (NES / Sega Master System -- 2^4)

32-bit (SNES / Genesis -- 2^5)

64-bit (N64 / Playstation -- 2^6)

128-bit (GameCube / Xbox / PS2 / Dreamcast-- 2^7)

256-bit (Xbox360 / PS3 / Wii -- 2^8)

and from here it's easy to double 256 and get 512 -- 2^9

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849434)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:55 PM
Author: sienna flatulent puppy

stopped playing at 64, ps1 :(

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849518)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 8:01 PM
Author: Fuchsia Rehab Place Of Business

damn dude, why?? you've missed so much and great things are yet to come

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849599)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 8:06 PM
Author: sienna flatulent puppy

ikr brother. i guess i just started occupying free time with reading, watching films, doing outdoorsy alpha shit, drinking w/ bros, etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849657)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:53 PM
Author: high-end canary famous landscape painting university

jesus christ STUPID

2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048

no calculator necessary for non-dumbs

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849489)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:08 PM
Author: Maize Philosopher-king

How long have you been studying for the GMAT brother?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849176)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:08 PM
Author: white therapy

2-3 weeks?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849182)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:10 PM
Author: Maize Philosopher-king

What material have you reviewed? When do you plan to take the test?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849197)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:11 PM
Author: white therapy

Manhattan.

2 weeks. FML. 680 yesterday. Getting so much simple shit still wrong and my time on math is horrible. I get to problem #25 when I'm out of time. On verbal I finish with 20min left.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849208)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:16 PM
Author: Maize Philosopher-king

Have you completed the books?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849236)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:16 PM
Author: white therapy

Ya bro. Twice. 700+ SAT math. FML

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849239)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:24 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

manhattan gmat books for verbal, especially for sentence correction, are very good. but i do NOT recommend it at all for math because the questions are different from the actual gmat. hard to explain, but my math score on manhattan practice exams were very different from actual scores.

buy the official gmat guide books, and also do some practice tests on the gmat club forum. and of course, make sure you do the 2 practice CAT exams available on the mba.com website. those scores are extremely accurate indicators of your actual score on test day.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849276)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:27 PM
Author: white therapy

The manhattan practice tests online cuz old GMAT questions, though their books use fake GMAT questions. I also practice with the GMAT QUANT official problem book and the GMAT official guide book. I "get" all the concepts but miss things on questions on how to apply them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849290)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:28 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

definitely tough part about the test. i don't think the gmat is as easy as xo posters make it out to be. you just gotta practice until your face explodes; that's what i did, and i'm naturally not a great test taker but did great on the gmat.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849303)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:30 PM
Author: white therapy

I need 720+ brother. I' upper 600s with a TON of mistakes and not even doing a third of the math. BUT I also haven't improved in the past week. Fuck my math.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849310)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:32 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

you're on a good track if you're getting high 600's despite not even doing a third of the math. you're probably spending too much time on the easier questions and then getting bogged down on the tough ones. in my case, i made sure i got the first 5 problems right, and then allotted a MAX of 3 minutes on any math question. if i still couldn't get it after that time, i made an educated guess and moved on.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849319)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:34 PM
Author: white therapy

Brother. I've done 3 exams. On my last 2, I have gotten the first math question wrong both times. You the first one is simple.

Ya. There were 9 questions I spent more than 3minutes on during my last test. I got 5 of those 9 right.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849330)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:37 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

ok; that's obviously a HUGE problem. gotta get the first 4 to 5 questions right.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849340)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:38 PM
Author: white therapy

Brother. I could have sworn to you yesterday that 2/25 was not between 5% and 10%.

PS. What are you doing now?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849345)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:39 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

about to start business school

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849358)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:33 PM
Author: white therapy

I can get around a 44 verbal and 44 math score. That should place me at 710 GMAT which is also ok I guess. But 44 in each is so far my best in each section.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849324)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:36 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

what schools are you gunning for? your verbal is fine (probably around 96-97%), but a 44 math score is in the low 70's percentile. the top schools want above 80% on both sections. if you can't crack 80% on math, make up for it by taking math classes at a local college and getting A's in them or demonstrating your quant skills in some other way (either through work, passing CFA exam, etc.).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849337)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:39 PM
Author: white therapy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849354)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:40 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

good luck. i applied to 4 of those schools and will be starting at one of them shortly.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849363)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:43 PM
Author: white therapy

80 percentile math is 48. Shit man. If I could get there I'd be around 750. I hope brother.

What field were u in? banking? consulting? other finance? What u gunning for?



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849386)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:45 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

2 years banking, 3 years at a long/short equity hedge fund. i'm gunning for top hedge funds, especially event-driven, special situations, and macro. i actually don't really need an MBA, but i think the education, network, and opportunities will be worthwhile.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849404)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:50 PM
Author: white therapy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849439)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:53 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

to be honest, bro, it will be very tough to get into a M7 business school with that background (assuming you're a white or asian male) unless you've done something exceptional outside of work. if you can get 730+ on your GMAT i highly recommend applying early decision to columbia. try to visit the school and express strong interest in them. columbia is obsessed with yield, and the selectivity is lowered for early applicants.

if you want front-office banking, stern is a fine choice as well. tuck is ok for banking, but its strength lies in consulting. their class is too small for my taste, but their alumni network is very loyal and strong.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849485)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:59 PM
Author: white therapy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849559)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 8:03 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

a place like accenture is fine, but the work needs to be somewhat front-office type roles where you're doing actual consulting, working with clients, etc.

it's gotten very tough for bros in finance/consulting. the elite b-schools are trying to diversify their class. i would have gotten into HBS and Stanford 2 or 3 years ago with my credentials but got waitlist pwnd this year. the deans of admissions at both schools told me i was a very strong candidate who would've gotten in during previous years but their schools are moving in a different direction.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849616)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 8:07 PM
Author: white therapy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849664)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:16 PM
Author: Electric deer antler wrinkle

wow, fuck that shit. i got an 800M back in the day and i'm not even sure how to approach that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849238)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:26 PM
Author: shivering yarmulke factory reset button

Lol@ the tards t hat post here



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849285)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:32 PM
Author: purple home

This isn't a math forum you ching chang chong, ching chong ching faggot.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849315)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:46 PM
Author: sienna flatulent puppy

ching chong ding dong fuck you

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849412)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:28 PM
Author: Federal digit ratio

just take the GRE bro

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849301)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:42 PM
Author: Jet diverse chapel

Man, problems like the one above is a daily reminder of how medium my intelligence is.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849379)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:44 PM
Author: white therapy

TBF, that is a hard problem designed to separate HBS from Stern.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849390)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 7:56 PM
Author: Nubile copper queen of the night

I would definitely not have correctly answered that problem, and still scored 740 on 2-3 days of study. What makes the GMAT so simple is that the verbal is a complete joke unless you're a fob indian/chinaman, so all you have to do is score around the 75th percentile or better on the quant and you should still break 700 without much trouble.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849523)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 8:00 PM
Author: white therapy

Quant is so unforgiving though. http://www.mba.com/the-gmat/gmat-scores-and-score-reports/what-your-percentile-ranking-means.aspx

47 math score is 76 percentile but a 47 verbal is several points above 99 percentile. Too many asians taking the GMAT.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849584)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 8:04 PM
Author: Medicated Grizzly Toilet Seat Idea He Suggested

yup. it's the chinese and indians.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849626)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 27th, 2011 8:04 PM
Author: Nubile copper queen of the night

Somewhat true. I'll probably put a few weeks of prep in and retake if I decide to go the MBA route in a year or two.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1743850&forum_id=2#18849635)