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Would you go Biglaw to AUSA?
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Date: February 2nd, 2012 11:18 PM Author: Nudist Aphrodisiac Dog Poop Would you go from Biglaw to AUSA? And why or why not? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19885815) |
Date: February 2nd, 2012 11:21 PM Author: violet ungodly resort generalized bond Less money with still a lot of hours.
But, more interesting and could be a way to transition into (a) partnership if you are getting white collar work or something, (b) some more chill govt job if you just want an easy decent paying fed gig. |
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Date: February 2nd, 2012 11:22 PM Author: Nudist Aphrodisiac Dog Poop See I keep hearing inconsistent stories from ppl. Some say AUSA is a chill job while others say its as hard as Biglaw.
It is definitely more interesting than Biglaw, but I have a feeling if I make the move its going to be just as many hours/stress. |
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Date: February 2nd, 2012 11:25 PM Author: violet ungodly resort generalized bond Depends on the place maybe. I really have no first or even second hand knowledge, just a lot of hearsay. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19885874) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 12:06 PM Author: Metal Codepig I think it's office dependent. If you're somewhere like NDIL, you're going to be busy tracking down all those mobsters. That office had to indict and convict the last two governors of Illinois. I imagine they're busy folks there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887786) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 12:07 PM Author: arousing brilliant pozpig That's my dreamjob. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887800) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 1:57 AM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard sdny = stress and hours
ednc = ? |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 11:47 AM Author: Painfully Honest Mind-boggling Brethren Weed Whacker EDNC = 8am -5pm work, 5:30 -10pm, skyrim. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887680) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 11:53 AM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard my dream job (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887703) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 11:57 AM Author: At-the-ready gunner At first I thought it said "EDNY", which is reputed to be a very tough place to work (long hours). With budget cuts, most AUSA jobs involve taking on more work than they used to have (civil and criminal). But, you can't put a price on the autonomy and the interesting work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887727) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 11:58 AM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard how much does ednc pay? someone told me cdcal pays $80k for a midlevel biglaw coming over. that seems ttt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887733) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 12:03 PM Author: At-the-ready gunner I don't know because the administrative pay scales for AUSAs never seem to be publicly available. Pay is based on your years of experience, what you were making when you came in, and your geographical location.
If by "midlevel biglaw" you mean around 4 years of experience, I suppose $80K might fit, but it does seem a bit low for CD Cal. Probably much lower cost of living in EDNC (and very cool place to live), so the pay scale may reflect that. I don't think $80K is an unrealistic expectation there. And you can certainly live happily on that money.
And again, think about not having to explain every decision you make to some d-bag partner or account for every minute of the day. |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 12:07 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard how critical are geographical ties to the district you're applying to? i would go to ednc or some other low key district but all my ties (job, clerkship, school) are to ttt big cities (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887796) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 12:15 PM Author: Painfully Honest Mind-boggling Brethren Weed Whacker If you're young: clerkships matter, litigation (trial preferably) experience matters, and the backing of current/former AUSAs. IF you have geographic ties for smaller districts, all the better.
I know someone working in WDNC making 86k starting. Negotiated it, probably could've received more. two clerkships, firm, between 4-6 years out. |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 12:17 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard am i better off if i go get a dct clerkship in the area i want to work, then apply to the ausa, instead of applying from my current biglaw in city on other side of country (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887846) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 12:17 PM Author: At-the-ready gunner It's not like a firm's interest in having people stay in the city. Connections to people in the US Attorney's Office are what matter for getting the job. This matters less in big cities. In the SDNY, for example, they'll take a Cravath associate with no experience other than doc review. In EDNC or smaller districts, they will hire someone with trial experience or at least substantive litigation experience + influential contacts with the office (e.g., fed judge, senator, etc.). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887844) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 12:18 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard im almost positive a cravath associate who only did doc review could not get sdny (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887847) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 12:19 PM Author: At-the-ready gunner I know one in particular who did nothing but doc review (perhaps drafted motions, maybe parts of a brief) at Cravath and is now prosecuting Mafia and drug kingpins in SDNY. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887854) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 4:49 PM Author: pea-brained casino Is he exempted from NYC concealed carry laws? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889361) |
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Date: March 1st, 2012 12:49 PM Author: excitant box office immigrant (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#20098292) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 12:16 PM Author: Painfully Honest Mind-boggling Brethren Weed Whacker EDNC is vast though. There is a station in raleigh, but you'll literally have to travel ALL THE TIME to cities that could be 2 hours away for court. That's the downside. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887841) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:11 PM Author: dark swashbuckling station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889943) |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 2:21 PM Author: infuriating round eye cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19894107) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 9:02 PM Author: Nudist Aphrodisiac Dog Poop Is there an internet site or anyway I can exactly know how much my starting salary will be if I only have one year of experience? This would be for an AUSA position in either SDNY or SD CAL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890895) |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 8:27 AM Author: Painfully Honest Mind-boggling Brethren Weed Whacker No. It is administratively determined (AD). You have to negotiate it. It will be between 44k (usually the bottom salary) and 54K depending on cost of living adjustments, how impressive your one year was (nobody is going to give a shit even if you were a Supreme Court clerk). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19892810) |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 11:43 AM Author: violet ungodly resort generalized bond ughhnnn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19893162) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 2:03 AM Author: Dashing sexy menage Hell yea. 10-3:30 with decent money, interesting work, good exit options. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19886863) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 11:52 AM Author: arousing brilliant pozpig Ever been in a trial :D? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887700) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 12:20 PM Author: Dashing sexy menage I watched Conrad Murray and Casey Anthony. The Feds never lose so there's that too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887859) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 12:21 PM Author: purple histrionic center lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19887862) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 5:44 PM Author: Anal Rebellious Native I cant imagine being a criminal AUSA is anything like BIGLAW. Just totally different. There's very little paper and writing in a criminal case. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889734) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 5:51 PM Author: Charismatic ladyboy Friend (good work ethic, not a slacker) from law school that is in a medium-sized city with a relatively heavy case load in comparison says that most days are 8-6. When in trial, though, it is worse than anything in biglaw. Typical trials are 2-3 weeks. Less than six trials a year.
Had some former (fairly senior) colleagues go AUSA and ended up doing big health care fraud cases. Those trials lasted a couple months but only 1 or 2 a year. |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:05 PM Author: Anal Rebellious Native Trial length depends on the types of cases you work on obv. Multi-defendant cases can go on and on. Immigration cases not so much. Guy I know estimated the average AUSA in the district where I clerked prob had 3-4 full blown trials a year. The sentencing guidelines promote pleading guilty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889911) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:09 PM Author: brass cocky idea he suggested crackhouse lol at this question. do you know how hard it is to go biglaw to AUSA in SDNY? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889937) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:12 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard but how hard is it to go from biglaw to AUSA in "non-competitive" district (ie not sdny, edny, cd cal) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889951) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:13 PM Author: dark swashbuckling station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889954) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:14 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard fine with me (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889957) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:15 PM Author: dark swashbuckling station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889963) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:17 PM Author: Anal Rebellious Native yerp, i clerked in a flyover and 90% of the criminal cases were drugs, guns, child porn, or some kind of fraud (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889972) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:18 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard people in cd cal do tons of illegal reentry etc... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889983) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:19 PM Author: Anal Rebellious Native right, immigration was the other common one--even in my flyover non border state (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889994) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:30 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard but if what you want is a routine 8-6 stable job, no billable hours, no TTT partners, seems fine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890055) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:31 PM Author: Anal Rebellious Native i would do AUSA almost anywhere in the country
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:45 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard me too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890199) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:25 PM Author: Charismatic ladyboy Friend of mine in San Diego interviewed for San Diego AUSA and was told that everyone there does border crimes for 2 years, no exceptions (this was like 7 years ago). That would get old fast. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890026) |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 12:59 PM Author: Anal Rebellious Native not surprised (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19893567) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:16 PM Author: brass cocky idea he suggested crackhouse i dunno. aren't you a litigator? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889966) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:17 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard yes but the only people i know who go to ausa offices are the ones who go to competitive districts. i never hear about people leaving biglaw to go to EDNC or whatever, which is what i want to do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19889974) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:21 PM Author: brass cocky idea he suggested crackhouse me too. i imagine the biggest problem for nyc biglaw lawyers is lack of connection to flyover regions. it's probably a lot easier to get ausa ohio coming from jones day with a d.ct clerkship in ohio and getting to know some local ausas. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890005) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:48 PM Author: Concupiscible Sooty Mediation Flyover districts tend to, from what I hear, hire more out of state prosecutors offices and local firms than big firms in huge cities. I'm sure it's doable, but the D. Wyoming is probably going to take a well-respected ADA in Cheyenne or an associate in a Denver firm over some random 4-th year Duke Law grad working in Antitrust at Skadden or Weil Gotshal in NYC. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890229) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:51 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard well i've been thinking of maybe getting a dct clerkship in the district i want, and then applying from there, but that seems really risky and stupid. i cant think of anything else. any other way to do it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890248) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:53 PM Author: Concupiscible Sooty Mediation Ties probably help. I know someone with no ties working at a well-regarded prosecutor's office in NYC who went to W.D. Wa. last year. He had very good reasons for wanting to move work there, though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890260) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:54 PM Author: brass cocky idea he suggested crackhouse how long at prosecutor's office? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890269) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:54 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard all my fucking ties are to ttt striver big cities. i think i may pick a state and just take the bar there to try and establish some tie (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890273) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 7:07 PM Author: dark swashbuckling station (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890332) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 7:08 PM Author: brass cocky idea he suggested crackhouse are there exit options from AUSA jobs in those districts? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890335) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 7:08 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard isn't local DA going to be same issue with zero ties? or is PRESTIGE and having a normal personality enough to get me a job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890337) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 7:09 PM Author: Fighting insanely creepy travel guidebook organic girlfriend fuck slaving away at 40k prosecuting DUIs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890341) |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 8:30 AM Author: Painfully Honest Mind-boggling Brethren Weed Whacker Just do a clerkship. If you did it in EDNC, with your work experience, you are looking at JSP-13 which is more than 81k. You could live like a fucking king on that much money in NC. Not so much in DC, but clerks get a sweet gig in low cost of living places especially if you come in with a couple years WE. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19892814) |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 10:07 AM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard i already have one year of clerkship experience at COA level and am a midlevel associate. where does that put me on the scale? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19892878) |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 11:23 AM Author: Anal Rebellious Native you come in at JSP-13 if you have two full years experience, which like the other poaster said, is like 80k+ in flyovers. You could make JSP-14 if you come in with 3 yrs exp. but there are new rules that prevent a chambers from having more than one JSP-14 law clerk now, I believe. So if the judge already has a career clerk who's been there and is making 14, you're probably precluded from getting that grade. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19893084) |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 11:38 AM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard not bad at all (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19893137) |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 11:43 AM Author: Anal Rebellious Native no, it's great money actually
career clerking in a cheap flyover seems cr |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 11:47 AM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard yeah, though judge could turn out to be an asshole.
and hours? CD Cal dct clerks work around the clock. My own clerkship was pretty INTENSE |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 11:50 AM Author: Anal Rebellious Native i clerked for two different flyover judges (a magistrate judge and a district judge) in places like NC. Both were extremely chill. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19893188) |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 11:52 AM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard what was clerking for a mag like? Ironically i think that would be a pretty good clerkship for learning the ins and outs of discovery issues, plus u do end up getting MSJs sometimes too?
what are you doing now?
been thinking about leaving biglaw to go dct in the flyover state I'd like to move to, and hopefully transition to ausa or at least to regional biglaw there |
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Date: February 4th, 2012 12:01 PM Author: Anal Rebellious Native clerking for a mag gave me a decent understand of the criminal procedure aspect, oddly enough. Mags handle all warrant requests, initial appearances, pleas and arraignments, pretrial detention issues and IA/detention issues on people who get picked up for violating their supervised release. And if you know anything about being an AUSA, 75% of their court time is probably one of these types of hearings. We'd also get referred motions to suppress occasionally too.
In my district, mags would get infrequent MSJ referrals, depending on the DJ's workload. We also had a general order referring social security, habeas, prisoner 1983 stuff to mags (which is generally all atrocious work). From what i gather, mags in my district generally got less civil work than others (mostly just the stuff i mentioned). I didnt get substantive civil discovery experience until i clerked for a district judge (which i am doing now).
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:54 PM Author: Fighting insanely creepy travel guidebook organic girlfriend TWIST: it's as a civil AUSA (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890275) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 6:56 PM Author: Vibrant frum haunted graveyard is there something wrong with that for non-strivers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#19890283) |
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Date: February 3rd, 2012 7:00 PM Author: Fighting insanely creepy travel guidebook organic girlfriend unless youre in an office that does a lot of affirmative civil litigation, the work is mostly defending the US against FTCA lawsuits and shit (ie guy hurt himself on federal property and is now suing). You arent in court nearly as much and you prob dont do as many trials.
that being said, i would still take the job in a heartbeat probably. |
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Date: July 27th, 2020 1:52 AM Author: Stubborn Prole (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1864053&forum_id=2#40665176) |