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Feel like my shitlaw firm has too high expectations of me
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 9:50 PM Author: irradiated green hominid Because i'm graduating from a good school and a semi-impressive resume. They said they will give me a significant bonus if I'm 'half as good as my resume' when I was inquiring about my salary, etc. for purposes of applying for school award. The problem is that I've learned the key to success in life is simply to over perform expectations. In this firm, I will know nothing about the area of law in which they practice (corporate), as I never took any courses in it besides corps and doing awful, and things will prob go over my head and I don't want them to think i'm a dumb. Is there any way to lower their expectations of me so I look good or what is the credited strategy for impressing when they already have too high expectations? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600422) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 9:51 PM Author: Navy dashing dopamine as a biglaw corporate drone, i'm curious - what is shitlaw corporate work? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600437) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 9:52 PM Author: Buff ladyboy private investor also curious abt this (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600451) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 9:54 PM Author: irradiated green hominid no idea. I don't even know if they'd qualify as shitlaw actually, they're in MFH, smaller firm, 7 lawyers. They do commercial/corporate law and some real estate. I'll be working for one partner primarily. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600482) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 9:55 PM Author: Navy dashing dopamine if they do *relatively* sophisticated work, it could be a pretty good job (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600492) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 9:58 PM Author: irradiated green hominid yeah. I think I prob sold myself short - I lost the job ad for this position, didn't think they'd give me an interview, they contacted me a little over a month later. I know they stated salary in the job ad, I could swear it was around $50K so when they asked salary expectations in the interview, that's what I cited and they seemed a bit surprised and asked if I could live on that. In this economy, as a graduating 3L without a job, I was happy to be working for a firm downtown and got along really well with the partner, my negotiating capacity was slim to none so I said yes, knew there's prob lots of others interviewing. But maybe I honestly miscalculated or didn't recall correctly - I think they were prob willing to offer more around $65-70, and they sent me an email saying if I do a good job there's room for significant bonuses and they want to retain me if I do well. I just feel a lot of pressure because I do like this firm, I just got the impression they were shitlaw based on the salary but the office is sweet.
Edi:; that said, they're not a large firm, I just looked up the partner I'm working for on Westlaw and only found a few cases, some small claims stuff. It's probably helping smaller/mid-size businesses, rather than the larger clientele that larger, more prestigious firms serve. They said they have one large real estate developer client. I guess they're not exactly shitlaw but they're not doing large corporate deals. |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:14 PM Author: pearly concupiscible corn cake church "...they want to retain me if i do well."
you mean this is a temp job? |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:35 PM Author: irradiated green hominid no, but they're looking to build from the bottom up, someone permanently to stay there, potentially make partner, etc. They only have 6-7 lawyers, whereas some BIGLAW firms will cut after a year or two. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600931) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:09 PM Author: Saffron Abode Pocket Flask that's not shitlaw, little breh (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600652) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:13 PM Author: wonderful dull dingle berry lay sounds like non-shitlaw work with shitlaw pay. In some ways better than straight shitlaw, in some ways even more demeaning. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600697) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 4:43 AM Author: Impressive Stead It's only shit law pay because he asked for 50K. I bet if he asked for 80-90K he would have gotten it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603719) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:25 PM Author: irradiated green hominid why not? I base shitlaw based on salary, clientele, and number of lawyers. I'm pretty sure the salary they were offering was $50K, clients are prob small-mid-size businesses and only 6-7 lawyers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600835) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:33 PM Author: bossy shrine $50k starting as a lawyer from a "good school?" define good school, brother. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600918) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 10:34 PM Author: irradiated green hominid T30 but just outside T14. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20600924) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:00 AM Author: wonderful dull dingle berry lay 50k for an attorney out of UCLA/UT/Vandy doing corporate work in MFH? that's obscenely poor pay. You get that the non-independently contracted security guards standing at the federal court house make that w/o high school diplomas, right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603580) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:10 AM Author: irradiated green hominid I know it is. But my salary will def increase after first year with them substantially (if not I'm leaving) and they said they'll throw in 'significant bonuses' this year if my work is good. You're right that I should have asked for higher but srly what firms ask 3Ls to state salary expectations AND I could have swore they posted $50K in the job ad. I wish I emailed them to ask them for the posting again before the interview. But I like the partner I'm working for & had nothing else besides a legal aid offer so can't be picky dood. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603607) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:45 AM Author: wonderful dull dingle berry lay Agreed little brah. Any experience is better than nothing. Also, do remember that other people don't know how much you're making. Spin the shit out of the position and boast about the 10 million dollar M&A deal you wrote some middling memo for and it will look like you worked at a corp boutique paying a little under market.
App to other positions while you're working and when they ask about salary requirements say something like "I'm really impressed by the people and practice you have here, so salary isnt really that important of a factor for me. That said, I'd ask that you at least match my current salary of 85k." I know a girl who was making 55k and they totally bought this line and were like "Well, if you're taking the trouble to come to us, we feel like you should at least get a raise so we'll offer you 90." |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:53 AM Author: irradiated green hominid Thanks dood. Only my really close friends know how much I'm making here because I was discussing the job with them before I accepted, but besides that, you're right. I'm going to spin it... it looks prestigious - it's in a great location, great building, and I just remembered my firm did say that they work on multi-million dollar deals (they told me this after I accepted.. there's hardly any info about the firm online, they don't even have a website, and hardly any info on Westlaw. I think they just negotiate/mediate everything, so not a lot of info re. trial work they do.)
I will apply to other positions maybe after 10 months in.. want to see how I like it. They said they'll give me bonuses, but when do u think they'd do that, near the end of the year? Salary isn't everything for me actually, I just need experience at this point. I didn't even work for a firm in 2L (worked for the school) so it's no wonder I didn't have luck with 3L interviews. With some credible firm experience and good references/grades/school, I should be set if I want to lateral. |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 4:02 AM Author: wonderful dull dingle berry lay Just for the record, you won't even be close to set for lateraling in MFH. Not to be a dick, but there are literally HLS grads with 2 years of experience at Dewey that are going to stagnate on the market for significant periods of time because hiring is just that soft. That said, you'll be significantly further than where you were and that's something. Just gotta spin everything you have to the best of your ability, keep learning, and keep hustling for positions. If you play it smart and are hungrier than other ppl, you'll make it. Just don't get complacent, the MFH legal market is a complete clusterfuck right now.
All in all, I'd say you're in a good spot overall as a fresh grad. Pat yourself on the back. |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 4:05 AM Author: irradiated green hominid that's fair. thanks. you're a good poster on here, appreciate it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603685) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 4:08 AM Author: wonderful dull dingle berry lay haha, thanks. Just trying to give it to you straight. Also, procrastinating from doing this paper. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603690) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 4:13 AM Author: irradiated green hominid same (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603696) |
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Date: May 2nd, 2012 11:46 PM Author: Apoplectic Multi-billionaire lol you left money on the table. idiot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20601846) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:11 AM Author: irradiated green hominid Yeah but I just needed a job and went with what was stated in the job posting as the salary. I wasn't even sure id get the job, they said they had a lot of competition too (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603613) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 11:20 PM Author: Apoplectic Multi-billionaire dude if they are willing to hire you, they won't revoke the offer because you asked for more than they are willing to offer. they are prepared for some give and take. unless you ask for like 160k or something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20609840) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 11:21 PM Author: irradiated green hominid Yeah oh well. Water under the bridge now (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20609854) |
Date: May 3rd, 2012 1:35 AM Author: nudist glittery old irish cottage i think only shitlaw asks how much you expect to get paid during the interview (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603081) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 4:44 AM Author: Impressive Stead Most jobs do this. You gotta be prepared, and you always go pretty high. It's a negotiation. He should have asked for 100K they would have given him 80. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603720) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 10:44 PM Author: nudist glittery old irish cottage I don't thinks so. Yeah if it's someone with experience but not a law student (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20609472) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:14 AM Author: irradiated green hominid I feel like killing self now. But what could I do....I didn't know it was possible to negotiate salary as a 3L without an offer especially when I badly need a job and the salary was posted..unless it was incorrectly posted. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603623) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:17 AM Author: irradiated green hominid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603632) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:18 AM Author: irradiated green hominid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603635) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:19 AM Author: sexy hospital Don't worry about this. Worry about it when you are actually working, and if it is actually an issue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603637) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:22 AM Author: irradiated green hominid Thank you dooder. I am just being fucking neurotic due to exams right now. Can you give me your opinion re. my salary on this thing? I wasn't unreasonable, with NO job offer in March as a 3L to simply say my expected salary was what was printed on the job ad, right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603647) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:31 AM Author: sexy hospital You did the right thing. You have a job (a lot of 3Ls don't), decent money, and sounds like you are going to get great experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603655) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:34 AM Author: irradiated green hominid thank you. I haven't started this job yet and trying to stay positive about it but thus forum is making me more neurotic than anything. I guess the concentration of BIGLAW people here makes it a different environment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603660) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:52 AM Author: clear elastic band breh you did the best you could and all told it doesnt sound like a bad situation. now just try and perform competently, and in a few years you'll probably see a big salary bump. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603676) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:53 AM Author: irradiated green hominid thanks bro - i'm hoping in a year I'll see a good salary bump. see my above msg to other poster re. moving to a different firm if not.. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603678) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:20 AM Author: irradiated green hominid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603640) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 3:25 AM Author: irradiated green hominid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603650) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 6:18 AM Author: avocado zombie-like athletic conference preventive strike What's so great about your resume? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603793) |
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Date: May 3rd, 2012 6:21 AM Author: irradiated green hominid honestly idk. I don't have any corporate experience, but lots of leadership roles in student organizations/government/clinics. Also litigation experience with clinics, and an international moot competition. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1938920&forum_id=2#20603798) |