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Taking ?'s on Chicago and Chicago firms
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:19 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig OCI is coming up, here to help if anyone's interested. I'll bump closer to OCI too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035503) |
Date: July 7th, 2012 4:23 PM Author: Lascivious Burgundy Rehab Reading Party is Baker #1 in Chicago for tax? what they pay? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035517) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:30 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig Definitely used to be but now I'd say Mayer Brown is probably #1 because they are really the only game in town on tax controversy matters and that has become a big practice of late. For pure tax, I'd say Baker is right up there in Chicago, top 3 for sure.
EDIT: also look at Skadden and Sidley.
Baker pays market ($160k), not sure about bonuses. |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:38 PM Author: mahogany selfie best bang for your buck neighborhood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035603) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:46 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig I really gotta go Lakeview on this one. You live in Chicago for 1) lakefront, 2) good restaurants, 3) parks, 4) fun. Lakeview has all of that and is cheaper than Lincoln Park by quite a bit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035662) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:51 PM Author: mahogany selfie thoughts on bucktown? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035695) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:56 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig Really like it overall but wouldn't live there. I think stuff is still overpriced there, I think you can find comparable stuff in Lincoln Park to be perfectly honest. A little too yuppy/hispterish for my blood, I don't go there much, never lived there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035727) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:57 PM Author: mahogany selfie i agree with both of these assessments. thoughts on south loop? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035733) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:02 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig I really don't like the South Loop. Still too bland, it's like a cheaper Streeterville. I don't get a strong neighborhood vibe there and Chicago is all about the neighborhoods. That's what makes it a cool place to live. One nice thing about the South Loop is access to Grant Park and the museum campus.
I will say this- the neighborhood is only going to improve. Not a bad place to buy and flip in 4 years with a decent return. |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:57 PM Author: arousing kitchen how is the vibe different from LP/Lakeview? is it true that it's "cut off" from the rest of the city? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035734) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:05 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig I could see why someone would say that but I somewhat disagree on "cutoff". It definitely isn't cutoff like Hyde Park is cutoff. I wouldn't want to live in Bucktown without a car, however, but it's doable.
The vibe is different because it has more of the no-character, off-the-rack condo buildings that shot up overnight whereas LP/Lakeview have actual character and legacy buildings that make them nicer overall, in my opinion. Bucktown was created by young professionals looking to buy, that neighborhood once sucked and the second it turned, people began buying in droves so all those condo buildings went up overnight. It was quite a boom, friends of mine made killings. It's like a potemkin village, however, seems cheap. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 12:01 PM Author: aromatic mother deer antler Long commute to work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21040433) |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 3:49 PM Author: supple green gay wizard Cr s actually west town/Ukrainian village imho (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21041966) |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 4:27 PM Author: misanthropic crackhouse with biglaw and chicago's low COL, just live whereever you feel like living. Does paying 1400/month versus 1700/month matter that much in the end? Especially if you don't need a car in the 1700/month place (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21042393) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:48 PM Author: arousing kitchen top 3 neighborhoods in Chicago for young professionals? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035671) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:11 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig 1) River North because you can walk to work and all the cool new places open there. You're right in the thick of everything and the entire city is very quickly accessible.
2) Lincoln Park if you want a neighborhood environment and like a little quiet. This means NOT living on Halsted, Lincoln, Clark, etc., and living more off the beaten path. Some awesome spots in LP.
3) Old Town. I really like it, it's a hybrid of LP and River North, in my opinion, and offers the best of everything including easy park/lake access plus good restaurants.
This list is cliche but I wanted to give you an honest assessment. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 2:50 PM Author: Dashing laser beams mental disorder which bars/clubs have the hottest chicks in chicago? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21041452) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 4:48 PM Author: chrome histrionic associate DESCRIBE the bonus market (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035673) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:00 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig Kirkland really does shatter. My friends there have never been unhappy. You have to kill yourself to get super paid, however.
Mayer is #2, way above NYC/Cravath scale but probably below Kirkland. I believe first years were at $28,000 or something, MB has always bonused well.
Sidley is a notch above Cravath but lower than Mayer and way below K&E.
Winston bonuses aren't that hot at all. Jenner bonuses also suck but I think their base salary is higher for third years on.
I would imagine that Skadden/Latham are at the same level nationwide. No idea about Jones Day. |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:05 PM Author: naked station How can SA maintain #2 while paying less than MB? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035776) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:08 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig Prestige, brother. Same reason Sullivan & Cromwell, Cravath, DPW and all of those can take a dump on their associates and keep them all.
Plus, Sidley is not a clear #2 in everything, you have to be a bit more practice specific in Chicago to get a better understanding. As far as pure overall firm prestige, however, yes, Sidley is definitely, solidly #2.
One thing that also helps is that Sidley's character/work environment is really top notch. People tend to be happier there on average, in my opinion. Awesome office, partners invest in people, high end work, stable, etc. It's really a phenomenal firm, end to end, and easily has the best Washington office of any of the Chicago firms and probably the best west coast outposts too. Sidley has become more national and less Chicago. |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:28 PM Author: Light puppy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035902) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:18 PM Author: mahogany selfie How expensive is it to keep a boat in Chicago? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035840) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:20 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig Too goddam expensive. It actually isn't impossible to get a good slip anymore because ITE owned some boaters but gas is expensive as shit and the sleep fee is high. I don't know the exact specifics but I would recommend going in with a friend and not taking it all yourself. Boating in Chicago is pretty badass, I must say. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035852) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:19 PM Author: mahogany selfie are there any good transactional boutique firms in chicago (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035845) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:29 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig Hmmm, that's a great question and one I feel like I don't have a great answer for.
Some of these are more BIGLAW than "boutique" but:
1) Goldberg Kohn especially for bankruptcy and real estate. Very good firm, but probably only 100 lawyers. They definitely work hard but it isn't a factory.
2) Ungaretti & Harris. Squarely midlaw but people there tend to like it, I don't think I would call them truly transactional focused, they do some lit too.
3) Chapman & Cutler. These guys are purely transactional, no litigation whatsoever. I think they do a lot of muni finance, however. |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:21 PM Author: Violent mustard hospital why has rahm chosen to be such a cataclysmic failure at keeping the city even marginally safe? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21035863) |
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Date: July 7th, 2012 5:31 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig 1) Not enough cops. They need another 1,500 minimum. Retirements have crushed the ranks, no money to bring more on board.
2) Current superintendent is really not smart at all. The guy 2 chiefs ago was very smart, knew how to use strategy to keep things down. This guy thinks NYPD stuff will work in Chicago and he is wrong because our gang issues are so much worse here.
3) It's really been hot as fuck since March but if your policing strategy is dependent on weather, you have larger problems.
4) Unfortunately they disbanded all of the specialized police units that were really effective but also did a bit of coloring outside the lines a time or two. Gangs knew better than to mess with the 4 dudes in unmarked cars wearing black kevlar and a badge on a chain. Those were the real police and they knew their stuff. They also got engaged in some not so good stuff and were ultimately disbanded. You need super specialization and good street level intel to make things work here, not just beat cops answering a back logged radio.
5) The Cook County Courts are completely and totally fucked up beyond belief. Guys commit felonies and are on the street instantly. It's a joke. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 12:00 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig I'm here all week (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21040425) |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 12:03 PM Author: aromatic mother deer antler Best biglaw firms for making partner in lit? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21040444) |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 1:25 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig Schiff Hardin #1. If you stick with it there, they will groom you. Smaller shop (but still big), no obscene hour expectations, good partner mentors. My friends have done well there.
Jenner second. Higher expectations but smaller classes these days makes it much easier to stand out. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 2:38 PM Author: orchid razzle indirect expression multi-billionaire Does schiff pay market? How are bonuses there? By no obscene hours expectations, do you mean target billables are around 2000? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21041391) |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 3:46 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig Schiff dropped to $145k but now pays $160k again.
Every chicago firm "targets" 2000, but 2000 gets you further at some places than others. I'd be scared of losing my job if I billed 2000 at kirkland.
As for bonuses at Schiff, I have no idea. I will say that the Chicago bonus outlooks is nothing special with the exception of Kirkland which is at the high end nationally and, at least in Chicago, followed by Mayer which may surprise some people. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 1:20 PM Author: chrome histrionic associate Average billables for associates at top firms?
EDIT: Actually, what I really want to know is hours spent at the office for these firms. Is face time generally a big deal in Chicago? Any firms in particular more known for this? |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 2:20 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig As for hours:
K&E: I think if you're below 2,200 you might be in trouble. Probably don't distinguish yourself unless you're over 2,700. A good number will be at 2,900-3,000. K&E pushes their people very, very hard.
Sidley: I think 2,600 distinguishes you there, most are at 2200-2300. Not sure the bonus rewards you like it does at Kirkland.
Mayer: they cut the bonuses at 2,400, you won't get a higher bonus for exceeding it. They don't crush you as much there but a 300 hour month in banking/finance isn't unheard of.
Winston: grindhouse. Hours are tough there.
Jenner: also pushes people very hard, I think 2600 is a good number there.
Facetime? Probably depends on your group. I think it matters at Jenner, they do all these firm events and want you there. Kirkland doesn't give a fuck on facetime, same for Sidley. Mayer has a lot of work from home on weekends/nights but I'm sure deal teams get crushed on facetime. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 1:41 PM Author: titillating dull main people Compare Chicago to sf (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21041071) |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 2:40 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig I love SF. SF is smarter, more cosmopolitan, more international. I think you need to be earning more money in SF to live a high-end life than in Chicago. Better weather makes for a more outdoorsy life experience.
Chicago is more down to earth, more friendly and more parochial but I obviously like it better.
For a lawyer? Again, if you're an IP mastaman, SF is way better, same if you like the cutting edge technology stuff. Chicago is probably better for biglaw overall. I'd venture there are less expectations in chicago, less hours and your buck goes further. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 3:54 PM Author: chrome histrionic associate so you clearly know what you're talking about with Chicago firms. but do you have any decent basis for your claims about quantity of work in SF? your characterization runs counter to my conclusions after pretty extensive due diligence--at least if your earlier numbers about chicago requirements are accurate.
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Date: July 8th, 2012 4:03 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig Sorry bro, I really have no idea. Only a handful of my law school brehs wound up on the 9th or in SF so I really am shooting in the dark on that one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21042119) |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 4:26 PM Author: misanthropic crackhouse hours in biglaw are pretty uniform across markets despite all the fuss. I mean, most big firms have offices in each of these places
nyc probably wants more facetime in the late evenings.
Otherwise, most V20's = 2200 average, V20-50 = 2100 average, V50 and below is probably 2000
Also, I think jorts' numbers are a bit high, at least for averages. When firms/associates actually post their numbers in surveys, etc., it always ends up being lower, rarely above 2000 even. The truth is probably somewhere in between |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 2:52 PM Author: Appetizing parlour how often do NYC V5 bros lateral into chicago firms? my impression on this end is that it's pretty rare (like, more go to Texas or CA or random places if they leave NYC) but I'm interested if that's your impression too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21041473) |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 3:53 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig It definitely happens but I don't think the average chicago firm is going to be that impressed or really care about v5 especially if the person was a litigator. Probably different for certain high end corporate work.
I think the most important things for Chicago laterals would still be 1) ties to chicago, 2) school. I bet you it would be easier to lateral the chi offices of latham and skadden. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 3:35 PM Author: mahogany selfie how much are nonequity partners at the 5 or 6 best firms making? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21041833) |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 3:58 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig I think this is very practice specific and you'd make more if you were the service partner for a rainmaker.
Ill say this- I've been told that Jenner has really been pipelining people into the non-equity/service partner category and that they are a bit underpaid relative to their peers.
Firms with phenomenal appellate practices definitely comp the brief writers well even if they are just income. |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 4:13 PM Author: mahogany selfie what's a range broseph (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=1988413&forum_id=2#21042228) |
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Date: July 8th, 2012 4:17 PM Author: adventurous cyan pocket flask rigpig I'd say $400-700k. The bigger question is how long is the non-equity track. Some firms will rarely if ever keep someone non-equity for longer than 3-4 years tops but others will keep you there indefinitely. I'd say MB and Sidley are more the former and Kirkland has to be the latter because people are technically "income partners" when they are basically 6th years or something absurd like that. I think Jenner and Winston will keep people at "income" and not equity for quite a while too. $450-700 is nothing to sneeze at, however.
EDIT: keep in mind, this shit is a total black box. At Sidley, the equity partners don't even know what the other equity partners make which is part of the collegiality theme. At Kirkland, everybody knows what everybody makes. Same with Schiff. |