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Big Law Hours
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Date: June 6th, 2013 2:38 AM Author: vigorous splenetic shrine What are typical biglaw hours? is M-F 8 to 7 typical? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339007) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 2:39 AM Author: Provocative Hell Goyim seems right. depends on practice group. also, litigation is better than corporate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339011) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 2:52 AM Author: flatulent chocolate trailer park macaca 9:30-8:30 is more likely in nyc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339042) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 6:58 AM Author: Carnelian glittery lodge police squad CR. And even though it's the same number of hours, this aspect of Biglaw drives me crazy. It's hard to have a life when your day starts this late. I left to start my own firm, and here I am poasting at 6:00 am, because this is when I naturally get up. Killed me getting home so late everyday. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339292) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 3:02 PM Author: electric principal's office And this right here is evidence of how people's circadian clocks differ. The thought of naturally getting up at 6a is as foreign to me as going to sleep at, say, 11a. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23347228) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 8:42 AM Author: Saffron drunken rigor More like 10-9 at my firm, but there is really no consistency from day to day. At 7pm my wife would call and ask if I would be home for dinner, and I wouldn't know. I hate this. I don't think I work that many hours on average, but the inconsistency can really ruin your life.
"On balance my life is totally fucked" |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 9:57 PM Author: Chest-beating spectacular ticket booth This is credited. The inconsistency is what makes it terrible. Friends/family "Are you available this weekend?" "I have zero idea" GF: "Home in time to get dinner?" "No idea" Leave on Friday with nothing going on, email at 2pm Saturday, scurry to office for 7 hours.
Shit wears on you. |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 9:59 PM Author: bat shit crazy blathering temple alpha titmfcr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23343270) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2017 9:21 PM Author: hyperventilating motley doctorate love of her life (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#32986378) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2017 9:34 PM Author: Brilliant dilemma PSA: There have been no improvements on this front since 2013, except that people don't bother asking anymore and just assume that you're not free (or, more likely, you're dead to them and they haven't thought about you in 5 years). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#32986472) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2017 9:37 PM Author: idiotic codepig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#32986490) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2017 9:38 PM Author: White Garrison Like 10-12 if you're any good (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#32986492) |
Date: June 6th, 2013 2:50 AM Author: Bateful mediation mother of the biglawyers i know, it seems like about half of them work long, but not brutal hours. the other half are getting life pwn3d. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339039) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 8:11 AM Author: overrated orchestra pit this. hours vary. and the thing that will kill you more certainly than anything else is to stand out as a superstar. but don't kid yourself. most people won't stand out, especially in the beginning. in our class, everyone was pretty equal parts sharp and clueless and earnest and bumbling. and there were differences in our hours, but it was more a crap shoot of what group you were in, how hands on/off the seniors, the economy, etc.
there were two guys who were seriously amazing though. one guy running deals by himself (and the partner) as a first year. both of them known as really solid, ahead of their years, and workhorses. one burned out after year two. the guy who's still around is a fourth year now and has billed, in every single year, at least 3000 hours. he's constantly inundated with stuff because the partners know they won't have to supervise much. not to mention, other associates are constantly calling him up for (often non-billable) help because he's encyclopedia britannica of securities land, and not nearly intimidating enough.
the way to get the least amount of work is to come across as well-intentioned and like you're trying hard, but aren't quite there. can't be glaringly awful or pegged a slacker, that'll get you noticed too. just be a little worse than everyone else, and enjoy billing 30-35 hours per week after the first year. also enjoy being fired after year 3 or 4. but hey, everyone still likes you! |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 8:43 AM Author: Saffron drunken rigor that superstar at your firm sounds like a loser IRL. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339439) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 9:23 AM Author: learning disabled copper pozpig why doesn't the superstar turn down some work? seems he would have the cache to do so. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339506) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 1:58 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle preventive strike keepsake machete I am sure the superstar does turn down work, just not enough. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23345112) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 12:42 PM Author: nofapping cobalt toaster Big dog partner is fucking that guy over by not guarding him more zealously. Maybe he's an aspie weirdo that they don't want in front of clients when it's time to actually bring in business.
There was a great econ paper I saw either here or ATL about law firm economics, and it made this point about how highly effective mid-levels are a problem because if you let them do too much they become huge threats to leave and take business with them so that they can make partner elsewhere faster. You also saw this in the ITE layoffs where rock stars (not me) were some of the cuts if they were clearly running laps around the partner with a certain client set and could've walked with business if they got sick of billing 300 a month on other stuff that didn't interest them.
There was a guy at my firm who was a second year and had started a company before LS and had really deep contacts in this industry, so he worked under the partner who was the "expert" in that industry in name only and this second year ran everything for their practice from the day he walked in the door. They did that dude so dirty. They basically said he got fired because he had the audacity to take a long weekend off for his wedding and this sub-100 IQ of counsel fucked up one of his deals while he was gone. Then gave him a bullshit speech about how Jack Welch fired x% of the F100 CEOs and they all knew he'd come back and dominate so it made sense to let him go do his thing elsewhere. Sadly he got kind of butthurt about it and left law and took a policy job. I really wished he had called all the clients, stolen them and gone to a better shop and made partner in 3 years just to spite them. |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 1:04 PM Author: overrated orchestra pit it's a few things. without saying too much about the firm, it's set up so that no single partner can "claim" associates, and associates have to work for several different partners.
also, the guy's nice. i don't know that he'll make partner cause he's not remotely schemey and needs a little more backbone. but he's not aspie or anything. just midwestern, nice, hardworking, and super competent. |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 1:44 PM Author: nofapping cobalt toaster No one was "claimed" at my firm either and we had "rotations" through different subgroups in our practice area. But somehow the big dog partners always managed to get their favorite associates assigned to their deals with enough bandwidth to put their work first and then do anything else when they had time. It's called being alpha. Your firm's pusscake partners should try it some time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23346680) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 8:16 AM Author: vibrant chartreuse private investor resort this is actually pretty variable (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339395) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 8:58 AM Author: irradiated coffee pot meetinghouse The hours do not even make my top 5 list of things that suck about biglaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339462) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 10:29 AM Author: Talented Rigpig Antidepressant Drug What five things are on the list? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339734) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 9:00 AM Author: topaz filthpig NYC big law people come in late just so they can stay past 8 and get free dinner and car service (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339464) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 9:58 PM Author: Sadistic Persian (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23343257) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 3:05 PM Author: electric principal's office (experienced lawyer) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23347244) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2017 9:38 PM Author: idiotic codepig (((NYC lawyer))) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#32986503) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 9:23 AM Author: learning disabled copper pozpig how do San Francisco IP litigators cope? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339507) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 10:00 PM Author: Chest-beating spectacular ticket booth By making the prole Ibankers write fake suicide notes in their diaries after absolutely SHATTERING the market, hitting the marina to moisten up every vag within a 10 mile radius with their EGGPLANT COCKS etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23343274) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 10:22 AM Author: learning disabled copper pozpig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339719) |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 10:33 AM Author: high-end bright brethren ape how do biglaw partners keep their marriages together?
I assume they work just as hard (if not harder) than associates so how does this work exactly? |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 10:38 AM Author: cerebral hideous knife To be fair,
Who ever said they do? |
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Date: June 6th, 2013 10:43 AM Author: Startling canary point messiness Marry another professional who works 10+ hrs a day (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23339781) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 1:57 AM Author: Blue personal credit line boiling water CR. And outsource the child-rearing to granparents and/or nannies.
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Date: June 7th, 2013 1:55 PM Author: dashing ocher marketing idea volcanic crater So instead of 1 super stressed out individual you have 2 stressed out people. Sounds like a nice recipe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23346748) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 1:54 AM Author: Cream lascivious organic girlfriend hall The ones where it "works" usually involve a spouse who stays home and handles all of the family duties so BIGLAW spouse can work super hard all the time. And the stay at home spouse has to want a certain lifestyle to put up with the hours. But obviously a lot of marriages do not work out and my firm seems to have a lot of folks who never married.
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Date: June 7th, 2013 9:05 AM Author: Flickering public bath I only work from about 10-7 most days. Then I go home, have dinner with the wife, watch a little TV, and then do another 2 hours of work after she goes to sleep.
One big variable no one ITT mentions is efficiency rate. If you actually get crap done most of your time "working" your hours will be better than if you're prone to spend half your day checking the web or gchatting with friends. The more productive you are, the less time you can get away with actually spending in the office. I go through stretches where I'm super productive and keeping ok hours and stretches where I'm slackerish and end up working for much longer (and always scrambling to catch up and do the stuff I should've gotten out of the way yesterday).
Of course, there are super-rough stretches where you're slammed and working insane hours despite being productive... but they only come a few times a year if you're on top of things. |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 9:15 AM Author: obsidian electric furnace this is b/c you do litigation. if you do transactional corporate, you don't have control of your workflow. You can have two hours between 5 and 7 where you have nothing to do, then the other side flips a document and you have to work from 7 onwards. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23345522) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 9:18 AM Author: Flickering public bath tbf, this was one of the reasons I wanted lit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23345534) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 2:57 PM Author: vibrant chartreuse private investor resort Doing 2 more fucking hours of work every night after your wife goes to sleep is not 'only work from 10-7'. It's hell. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23347192) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 3:35 PM Author: Flickering public bath I'm sorry, do you think you're entitled to make $250k working 9-5?
I find my current schedule bearable. If you don't find yours bearable, quit. |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 3:07 PM Author: electric principal's office The efficiency issue and the billable hour are godawful concepts. Makes you want to spend every lunch in front of your desk because every minute spent with your friends is deemed as wasted. So completely different than 99% of jobs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23347262) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 3:38 PM Author: Flickering public bath Oh, you again. Mr. "being a biglawyer is worse than 99% of jobs."
Still no sense of real perspective. Still a whiny bitch.
BTW, if you view time spent with friends as wasted, you're doing it wrong. It's time spent at your desk skimming the web when you have work to do that's "time wasted." If you spend too much time procrastinating and bullshitting, don't complain if you no longer have oodles of guilt-free time for socializing. |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 3:45 PM Author: Cream lascivious organic girlfriend hall This is a good point. The folks that I see making partner are the ones who can bill 2,500 hours and still have some life (not much, but some) because they are super efficient and have the endurance to keep that going. These are the robots who did law review and moot court and were still up to speed on all their classes and outlines in law school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23347564) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 4:16 PM Author: burgundy big place of business pervert being efficient is all good in theory but your consistent schedule doesn't work for a lot of biglawyers, even those in litigation.
i can be as efficient as i want when i have work, but there would be days or weeks where i would be slow b/c all my cases didn't have immediate upcoming deadlines. it's stressful knowing that if you're billing 120-130/mo you're going to have to make up those hours eventually another month and that throws off the consistent schedule.
also, being efficient is fundamentally at odds with the billable hour model. i found a way to do work "efficiently" but not so efficiently that my hours are too low, even if, realistically, i could really write a motion in 3 hours instead of 10 hours and would rather do that and go home and enjoy my life. but no, i need 2000 hours and i only billed 120 last month so i need to stretch it to 10. that's not being efficient at all.
now, i just have to get my work done. how long it takes or how long it's supposed to take is totally irrelevant. i get it's all relative and when i was in biglaw, i didn't think things were that bad, and i'd say somebody who has a consistent 10-7 schedule where you work another couple of hours when you go home is on the better end for biglaw. but now that i look at it from being in-house, that schedule seems horrible and i could not deal w/ it again. |
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Date: June 9th, 2013 7:19 PM Author: Flickering public bath Yeah, I mostly agree. I don't see this as sustainable longterm, but it works ok for now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23361137) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 2:05 PM Author: Grizzly Multi-colored Locus 8:30-6:30 erryday. BigTex. Occasional weekends.
It's a lot of hours, but you get used to it. |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 3:53 PM Author: Ungodly concupiscible laser beams scourge upon the earth Same here. It's not that bad. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23347611) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2017 9:39 PM Author: White Garrison That's any old "job" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#32986505) |
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Date: June 7th, 2013 10:26 PM Author: outnumbered locale New York: 10-9/10 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#23350106) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2017 9:17 PM Author: appetizing mentally impaired area maybe I just do a lot of BIG LIT bet the company type cases, but my hours are way more erratic than the ones described here.
About half to 60% of the time I am working crazy and erratic hours, sometimes 7 days a week.
40% of the time I work 5 hour days and can stroll into the office at like 11.
But somehow it almost always works out to 2100 hours a year. |
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Date: April 3rd, 2017 9:43 PM Author: Startling canary point messiness The difference in predictability in biglaw lit vs transactional is greatly oversold. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#32986552) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2017 9:45 PM Author: appetizing mentally impaired area their hours sound a lot more predictable than mine.. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#32986571) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2017 9:38 PM Author: idiotic codepig Biglaw hours: 24/7. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#32986496) |
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Date: April 3rd, 2017 9:38 PM Author: appetizing mentally impaired area check your e-mails 24/7 but not actually work those hours... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2274750&forum_id=2#32986501) |