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corporate biglawyers - what is the cr practice group
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Date: February 20th, 2015 10:59 AM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles for a first year? by corporate, i mean non-litigation.
assume that the firm does rotations. not flame, which do you think provides the best exposure for figuring out what you want to do? is the obvious answer m&a? it seems like a lot of people push banking regulatory work... |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:00 AM Author: Rusted irate parlour ABL
Anything But Litigation |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:02 AM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355599) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:03 AM Author: Rusted irate parlour It was. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355607) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:24 AM Author: violent grizzly theater stage And it most certainly is. OP needs to grow a beard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355749) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:30 AM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles what does this meme mean? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355779) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:21 PM Author: Thriller kink-friendly stead hide out. go to witness protection. self help GROW A BEARD. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27360226) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 7:39 PM Author: jet-lagged range (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27365129) |
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Date: January 29th, 2016 3:02 AM Author: Bearded Address Feces (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#29705359) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:48 AM Author: apoplectic cuckold If you want to be as well rounded/marketable as possible when you head in house, try to get some exposure to everything that you can on the corporate side of the firm - banking/lending, M&A (try to get on some deals with different types of underlying assets/companies), basic corporate structuring/governance). Also, if you can find a way to get on a bankruptcy matter or two (perhaps even to help out with some due diligence), do it. That is good stuff to know a little bit about. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355874) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:49 AM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles ty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355881) |
Date: February 20th, 2015 11:00 AM Author: black tripping ladyboy transactional IP (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355583) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:01 AM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles even for non-patent? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355593) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:27 PM Author: Milky Sanctuary Pervert This is the most mind numbingly boring work you can do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356422) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:01 AM Author: wonderful brunch i think m&A.
stay the hell away from banking/lending/finance. |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:02 AM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles interesting. why? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355596) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:11 AM Author: black tripping ladyboy M&A is def better than Finance but the hours are hell. Also, as a first year is fairly low level work (checklists, signature pages, hounding specialist for comments, running changes though drafts)
Specialist (IP, ERISA, Tax) who support M&A get a feel for what M&A is like but dont have nearly as many hours usually get a bit more higher level work.
That said, you will bill more in M&A and have a clearer path to Partner.
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:16 AM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles you're saying the hours are even more brutal in finance? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355693) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:22 AM Author: black tripping ladyboy no M&A is worse at least it was in my time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355727) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 9:21 PM Author: Galvanic set police squad Finance is worse than m&a at my firm but in general m&a/finance/cap markets have bad and unpredictable hours (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27365876) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:16 AM Author: wonderful brunch hours suck for finance too. i had a couple hundred hour weeks when I rotated through there. there's so much competition for the work that firms fall all over themselves to get the deal done at lightening speed. clients, knowing lawyers bill by the hour and are willing to murder themselves to maintain the relationship, will pretty much always demand the deal gets done unreasonably quickly.
finance sucks. you always end up negotiating the same points, it doesn't expose you to a lot of areas of law that inhouse jobs are going to be looking for and the material is dry as hell. the partners that do this kind of work typically suck as well because anyone who could decide to do finance law forever must have something wrong with them. Plus the clients generally don't have a lot of respect for you because you're seen as a necessary evil making mountains out of molehills over discrete terms in the deal that won't have any real impact on the borrower/bank 99% of the time. |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:20 AM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles thank you for this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355723) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:34 AM Author: wonderful brunch no problem. oh, and i should have added, another thing that totally sucks about the practice is that it can be extremely stressful. what appear to be minor f-ups can have huge consequences. that associate that cost JPM $1.5 billion? A third year finance associate. not too many other groups where a fuck up in routine processes can have that big of an impact. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355798) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:41 AM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles to the extent that you are willing to share, what was the general route you took and are you glad you took it? would you have done things differently given the chance? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355831) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 12:08 PM Author: wonderful brunch my route was basically to avoid litigation and to try to join a group that has the best/most lucrative exit options. My firm had a rotation system so I didn't need to worry about getting stuck with the first choice I made. I also came out during ITE which had a big impact on my strategy. I actually jumped on an opportunity to tour the restructuring group in order to ensure that I didn't get stealthed. But regardless of where you go, whether they rotate or not, I wouldn't be shy about letting people know you're happy to help out with stuff that isn't strictly in your group's practice area. if you can work with people outside of your group do it as long as it doesn't hurt the relationships you have with people in your own group. the broader your skill set the more likely it is you'll be able to exit into another firm or field that you think seems the most promising. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356000) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:27 AM Author: Twinkling water buffalo corn cake as an M&A lawyer, i fucking HATE finance lawyers with a passion (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355762) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:31 AM Author: wonderful brunch same. and there are groups at certain firms, Kirkland and Weil stand out for me, where I've had to restrain myself from walking over to their offices and throwing haymakers all over the place after getting off the phone with them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355784) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:33 AM Author: Twinkling water buffalo corn cake tcr on all accounts (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355796) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:13 PM Author: Gold institution Looks like we're up to three members of our K&E haters club. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356349) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 2:50 PM Author: Twinkling water buffalo corn cake welcome, pumo friend! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356996) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 5:22 PM Author: wonderful brunch glad to be a part of the team. from what I can gather, there are many, many others that would take great joy in joining this club. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358043) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:59 AM Author: Gold institution M&A sucks. A shit ton of diligence and then negotiating the same 10 reps and the indeminty survival period in a short 80 page merger agreement over and over. I dont understand at all why people want to do it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355953) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 12:00 PM Author: Twinkling water buffalo corn cake (finance lawyer) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355958) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 12:02 PM Author: Gold institution (guy who thinks getting consents to change of control is real work) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355970) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 12:05 PM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles what would you recommend? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355989) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:13 PM Author: Gold institution Depends on your firm, your personality and your goals (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356351) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:16 PM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles mfh v20, handsome intellectual INTJ, just looking to develop a financial cushion and then find some semblance of balance in my mid 30s (late 20s now). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356367) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:21 PM Author: Gold institution If you're only looking for best exit options from NY V20, then M&A is definitely the best route. But depending on which specific firm you're at, your soul may be crushed in the process. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356381) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:23 PM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles yeah. this is what i gather. care to speak about anywhere particularly bad? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356394) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:25 PM Author: Gold institution Cravath, S&C, STB, Skadden, K&E, Paul Weiss (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356413) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:35 PM Author: purple spot turdskin what makes them bad/worse than, say L&W/Weil? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356477) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 2:02 PM Author: Gold institution Worse personalities, more sweat shoppish. Weil may be bad as well, I just have never had any experience with their M&A group (as someone noted above their finance group is full of pricks though) and don't know anyone there well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356633) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:47 PM Author: wonderful brunch i don't know whether i'd put skadden on this list. i mean the hours can definitely suck, but they do a lot of diligence heavy deals and lever them up with a bunch of juniors so the work is easy as hell for them. they then get to say they worked on the mega merger of the year or whatever which i think, combined with skadden's name recognition in the field, gives you a big leg up when lateraling/exiting. sitting around a table ordering take out with a bunch of dudes in your twenties isn't how i'd want to spend every friday night/weekend but you're hardly stressed out of your mind either. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356535) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 2:03 PM Author: Gold institution Fair enough. But 3 years of dili would crush my spirit. Others may view it differently. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356642) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:06 AM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355626) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:23 AM Author: Bat shit crazy new version mood crossfit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355738) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:25 AM Author: violent grizzly theater stage (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355751) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:35 AM Author: Flatulent idea he suggested insurance. chill, laid back transactional non-lit work, and you get to fly to the cayman islands several times a year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355801) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:38 AM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles is it actually that "chill"? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27355818) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:16 PM Author: Gold institution That's not a real practice area (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356365) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 9:15 PM Author: Stimulating menage What? There are people at my firm that's all they do is draft coinsurance agreements,etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27359385) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 12:46 PM Author: purple spot turdskin Ttg is cr. great exit ops... Always work available, less cyclical than other corp. groups. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356236) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 12:48 PM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles tech transactions? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356247) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:12 PM Author: purple spot turdskin yeah. tech transactions is CR (but obv. depends on what firm... wsgr ttg >>> l&W ttg) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356345) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:13 PM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles im in new york and don't have a stem background, so that's kind of a non-option. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356347) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:35 PM Author: purple spot turdskin don't need stem bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356479) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 2:24 PM Author: floppy bistre heaven most ppl in tech transactions dont have a stem background (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356793) |
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Date: January 28th, 2016 10:51 PM Author: vivacious school internal respiration My experience has been that while TTG might make an earlier exit from a firm easier, and therefore serve as better early career ONE|WRONG|MOVE insurance, in general once you're inhouse the other corporate specialties are more valuable. Your inhouse employer will be happy to crosstrain you to negotiate (or more likely handle escalations) on their form commercial agreements, but they won't try to teach you M&A/Finance/Securities work. The goal is to go to a company that will have a lucrative exit, which basically means either a crazy high purchase price in an acquisition (which still often ultimately results in getting laid off) or an IPO. If you're valuable in the process of preparing for an exit it makes your inhouse job much more interesting and makes you safer there pre-exit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#29703810) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 12:50 PM Author: crimson temple CAPITAL | MARKETS | BALLERS (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356256) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 8:37 PM Author: pea-brained pit nowag fucking cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27359151) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 7:51 PM Author: charcoal useless brakes toaster LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27365213) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:19 PM Author: Boyish brethren nursing home the only work that involves problem solving is M&A.
everything else is just plagiarism/making charts of precedent.
(of the typical biglaw practices) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 2:16 PM Author: filthy casino indirect expression Tax (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356732) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 2:18 PM Author: wonderful brunch yeah, tax is pretty much 100% susbstantive work right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356755) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:22 PM Author: razzle forum 70% (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27360229) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 2:20 PM Author: floppy bistre heaven ive done a lot of M&A work and i find it to be the most fun but its also extremely stressful. a ton of stakeholders and everyone awnts their payout and ppl just want ti to get done and theres a billion problems that can come up. tech transactions otoh are often pretty slow moving and chill and just day to day operations type shit that no one really cares about. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356765) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 9:24 PM Author: Galvanic set police squad This is right. M&a is the most interesting corp practice but one of the most stressful (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27365885) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 1:36 PM Author: Stirring hospital kitty regulatory is fun (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356489) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 2:32 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigpig Tax. Don't over think it.
I also suspect that most tax associates could run a deal before corporate associates. |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 2:34 PM Author: wonderful brunch the majority of tax associates and partners I've met should never be presented to a client.
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Date: February 20th, 2015 2:34 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigpig So then if *you* go into tax and *are* presentable... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356874) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 2:37 PM Author: wonderful brunch my comment was directed more at your comment that most tax associates could run deals better than others. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27356901) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 5:19 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigpig Fair point, *I think they have the legal background required to run deals sooner than others. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358030) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 2:56 PM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles I can't do tax (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27357040) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 3:13 PM Author: Nudist Electric Furnace Church Real Estate is pretty sweet if you like Real Estate....and there are far few fire drills than other corporate because Real Estate usually works on somewhat longer timelines that are known in advance.
Also, even many biglaw real estate clients don't have inhouse lawyers, so you don't have some shrew in-house lawyer looking over your shoulder and nitpicking you to death. |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 3:14 PM Author: Twinkling water buffalo corn cake so is it flame that whenever i ask a RE bro for assistance on a deal they're like "i'll try but i have 23 closings this week" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27357123) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 3:17 PM Author: Nudist Electric Furnace Church well, you do have lots of closing, and you always have something to do (which is a huge benefit in hitting hours while keeping a good lifestyle), but I'm sure they've been planning for those closings for like two months, so it isn't a big deal.
And no one in RE wants to do diligence for a corporate deal....that's the worst kind of RE work, so they probably just lie to you either way. |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 3:18 PM Author: Twinkling water buffalo corn cake the thought of diligencing even one of those shitty 90 page leases makes me want to vomit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27357148) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 3:20 PM Author: Nudist Electric Furnace Church Yeah, although those are easy hours. You can bill the shit out of those (ie: 10.5 hours "Review and Abstract X Lease")
But I haven't abstracted a lease in 5+ years....that is handled by juniors and reviewed by mid-levels.... |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 5:32 PM Author: Gold institution This is exactly why the rest of us hate support practices. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358092) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 7:16 PM Author: Nudist Electric Furnace Church why? RE isn't a support practice in any firm I've been in. That is why we avoid corporate deal diligence, because, fuck supporting some douchey corporate deal when I have my own clients doing interesting real estate deals. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358655) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 8:10 PM Author: Gold institution It's a support practice for the M&A and banking departments at every top firm. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358954) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 12:20 PM Author: massive lodge partner this is patently not true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27362187) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 1:09 PM Author: Nudist Electric Furnace Church definitely certain top firms with shit RE practices, but I was at a top firm, and I would guess that less than 5% of our RE work was support for the corporate group.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27362516) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 3:22 PM Author: Marvelous Green Meetinghouse when you are good at it its fine. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27357176) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 5:34 PM Author: Gold institution That shit always sucks. When I was a first year I did diligence on the acquisition of a grocery store chain. 3 of us had to review and summarize something like 150 leases. Never fucking again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358103) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 12:10 PM Author: Concupiscible olive dysfunction depressive I would caution anyone from joining the real estate group at a firm as there are zero exit options unless you luck into a position at Pizza Hut negotiating 1500 square foot form leases for spaces at strip malls in 'merica. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27362139) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 12:20 PM Author: massive lodge partner REITs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27362191) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 1:07 PM Author: Nudist Electric Furnace Church That must be a real shitty firm. Everyone who left my firm and went in-house went somewhere pretty sweet. The rest went to mid-law, where it is easier to build a pretty strong practice with developers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27362504) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 3:31 PM Author: titillating unholy theater jap transactional tax (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27357268) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 3:34 PM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles those groups are hard to get into and i didn't express enough of an interest. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27357301) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 5:23 PM Author: saffron rebellious gas station sneaky criminal You're probably not right for tax then. Min size/strenghth/speed requirements are comparable to NFL LB. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358050) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 7:02 PM Author: jet-lagged range any tips for an incoming summer to crack the tax group? already taken all the courses, but never expressed an interest during oci (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358575) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 7:07 PM Author: 180 French Chef Volunteer for the assignments. >90% of the class won't even pretend to be interested. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358598) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 7:20 PM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles Did you fill out a questionnaire expressing interest? If you haven't, be sure to put tax at the top of the list (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358669) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 7:23 PM Author: jet-lagged range yeah i did that already. ive heard it can be competitive at some firms but hopefully expressing interest early will help (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358692) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 8:01 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigpig Yeah just do the questionaire and ask for tax assignments from your mentor or whatever, if you aren't getting much you could try and have lunch with a tax partner/senior associate. More people are likely to be interested at the top firms (because they're generally smarter, honestly) but those firms also have bigger groups so they can afford to let people try who are interested: having 15 people when you need 14 isn't as inefficient as having 5 when you need 4 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358910) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 8:22 PM Author: jet-lagged range are therere really tax groups that need 14 people? i figure the biggest ones take a handful max (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27359041) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:20 PM Author: razzle forum 14 is high, but some take 7-12, which may be close to the number who express interest. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27360221) |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 10:29 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigpig Oh no, probably not, I was just saying they had 14 total associates, not taking 14 people (although I'm sure there's at least one) so they can take on one more extra person and isn't as big of a deal (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27382040) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 8:02 PM Author: Misunderstood dog poop Nigger Law (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27358917) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 9:20 PM Author: Arrogant dopamine Trusts and Estates - just do nothing all day and get paid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27359414) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 11:26 PM Author: razzle forum Tax is CR if you like statutory construction, don't particularly care about being the key deal lawyer and want to go inhouse with a raise. Probably harder to make equity partner, and it's easy to be wrong, so not suitable for all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27360270) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 10:06 AM Author: jet-lagged range yeah, thats the thing thats scary to me about tax based on my tax classes. seems to involve a lot of predicting about what the IRS will do and if you predict wrong your clients fucked (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27361673) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 3:29 PM Author: razzle forum It's less about the IRS enforcement folks--they are often somewhat unsophisticated and when they challenge complicated things, they often do so based on a gut reaction and may not be able to persuasively articulate even a general basis for doing so--and more about the existence of a huge number of wildly complicated regimes that have been brought into being through a mixture of statute, regs, separately published administrative guidance and case law. Tons and tons of traps for the unwary. On the other hand, if you're someone who really likes thinking deeply about rules and gets a kick out of coming up with creative ways to repurpose anti-abuse rules and the like, tax is awesome. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27363440) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 3:49 PM Author: maroon property The last point is key (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27363586) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 9:09 PM Author: razzle forum It is. Doesn't happen often, but to me the very best thing is when you propose an idea that is so counter-intuitive that upon explaining it, you get a "wtf" reaction (son, are you high?), but then as it sinks in the person becomes convinced that it not only works but that it's the best way to handle the problem. Hard for me to imagine a different practice area with more opportunities for moments like this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27365798) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 12:23 PM Author: sepia mediation Structured tax or derivatives (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27362203) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 12:27 PM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles as for derivatives - if you don't know shit about hedge funds, will this pose a problem? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27362229) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 12:32 PM Author: sepia mediation Not really for starting / it is crap to be negotiating relatively standard CSA's and related trade documentation. However you get a plus client exposure on the buy side, and the skill set that will allow you to GTFO of biglaw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27362267) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 12:33 PM Author: emerald cerebral fat ankles i am basically trying to get all of the advice that i can get on this. is this roughly the route that you took professionally? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27362276) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 12:58 PM Author: jet-lagged range what is "structured tax" exactly? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27362448) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 3:37 PM Author: Cracking fortuitous meteor He's probably talking about tax driven structured products. Or, he doesn't know what he's talking about and is talking about doing tax work on generic CLOs, which is terrible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27363495) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 3:48 PM Author: maroon property I think the former. Tax driven products are straight 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27363582) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 4:51 PM Author: razzle forum Huh? Tax driven "products" sounds to me like commoditized tax-driven financial products work, which is pretty fucking boring. IME, the most interesting tax work is tax planning that is specific to a particular company or transaction (and not the sort of thing that is likely to be done hundreds of times). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27363933) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 8:11 PM Author: floppy bistre heaven The problem with doing really transaction specific stuff is its extremely cyclical work and ur likely to be pwned eventually. If you become a masterman in a higher volume field you will always have a jerb. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27365317) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 8:22 PM Author: razzle forum It's true that you need to be able to do some of the more routine work (e.g., basic capital markets transactions); but if you have expertise in a number of different interesting areas such that, for example, you can add value not only in cross border M&A but also internal restructurings, hedging programs, etc., you are likely to be able to weather cycles and have a sufficiently interesting workload to avoid suicide.
At any rate, I certainly wouldn't be enthusiastic about focusing primarily on structured products tax work. I had a candid conversation with a partner whose practice is largely in that area, and that person indicated it was about as interesting as specializing in FATCA/information reporting/backup withholding, though obviously considerably more lucrative. |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 10:35 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigpig Pretty sure they just mean tax structuring (i.e. transactional tax) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27382067) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 7:57 PM Author: Mildly autistic masturbator love of her life Private investment funds folks seemed to do fantastic - doing 9 to 5 working at large pe firms and hedge funds after 4 years of biglaw (and the work didn't really seem that hard and certainly not as bad of hours as traditional transactional). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27365253) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 8:04 PM Author: razzle forum Your firm is very different from mine. Our funds associates apparently have decent enough exit options, but the work and hours seem fucking terrible. From my vantage point, M&A appears to be better. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27365282) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 8:12 PM Author: floppy bistre heaven Cr. This is why tech transactions is the best for exit ops. Lol at exiting to a hedge fund or PE with a culture where everyone works, works, works. Tech companies are laid back as fuck and tech transactions are day to day stuff that no one really cares about other than that it gets done eventually. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27365324) |
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Date: February 23rd, 2015 9:38 AM Author: jet-lagged range (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27375413) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 9:19 PM Author: Galvanic set police squad You should switch firms. M&a is all about needless fire drills and pif should be steady work with reasonable hours (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27365867) |
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Date: February 21st, 2015 9:32 PM Author: razzle forum I don't work in either area, but at my firm the funds folks are almost always swamped with boring process work. M&A guys definitely seem to be victimized by aspirational deadlines that have no basis in reality, but they also come across as being interested in what they are doing, and they always want to make sure they understand issues. Our funds folks are not like this and seem to drop like flies--very few stay in the group for more than a couple years. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27365928) |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 6:10 AM Author: Adventurous cream laser beams I would try to do at least one M&A deal, one cap markets deal (ideally not an IPO) and some work in a support group like Exec Comp, and see what you like the most.
I liked cap mkts the most, but it really depends on what you end up doing / what your firm does - e.g., doing tons of underwriter-side investment grade debt work seems like it would be pretty horrible, but I've done mostly issuer-side work which I thought was pretty good. I think exit opps are decent if you are at a good firm (specifically either to investment banks or corporate treasury teams, and people also move to DCM roles at banks). The lifestyle is a lot better than M&A - same shitty hours when deals are launching/pricing but you generally have a lot more advance warning, so you rarely have your weekend pwned out of the blue. |
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Date: February 24th, 2015 6:25 AM Author: Translucent garrison gay wizard Corporate law is terrible. How do you guys do this 60 hours a week? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#27381641) |
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Date: January 28th, 2016 9:52 PM Author: multi-colored public bath coffee pot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2813331&forum_id=2#29703197) |