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I find this board REPREHENSIBLE... it has RUINED law
Date: February 10th, 2006 10:57 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I find xoxohth and message boards like it reprehensible. They have ruined the once-noble practice of law by turning it into a naked status contest.
I'm a hiring partner at a northeastern law firm. Recently, as you all may know, salaries in "big law" have been increasing, lately, and $145k is likely to become the new standard. This I find sickening: do you kids realize how privileged you would be to earn $100k at 25, much less $125k? My parents were both lawyers and didn't crack six figures until they were in their FIFTIES, and they brought me up just fine.
Websites like this one allow law students to "comparison shop" on salaries and status. It turns hiring and recruiting, for us, into an immoral numbers game. It has ruined the ability of small firms to recruit top law students, and the obsession over "Profits Per Partner" means that a firm that has a couple of bad years goes into the toilet in terms of reputation, clientele, and standing. It's utterly offensive to any person with even a smidgen of conscience.
You should all be ashamed of yourselves, you shallow, materialistic, spoiled fucking brats. You have no souls.
Sincerely,
-Patrick E.S. Vine |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 10:58 PM Author: glittery cuckoldry stage Nice. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053214) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 10:58 PM Author: exciting flatulent area jap hahahahahaha who are you really? |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 10:48 AM Author: Sapphire haunting partner useless brakes As I posted below, PATRICK ES VINE = A PENSIVE TRICK (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055770) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 10:59 PM Author: saffron fiercely-loyal wagecucks 1) Flame
2) Get Fisted
3) If not flame, see 2)
4) hth
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:42 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate I doubt the future partners at your firm will welcome references to deviant sex acts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055112) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 10:59 PM Author: trip chartreuse lettuce patrolman Sounds like you're having a fun time at the office on a Friday night at 11pm. Corporate sell-out fuck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053226) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:07 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I'm actually at home, believe it or not. I just put the kids to bed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053297) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:12 PM Author: Judgmental school associate hope you didn't touch them this time (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053339) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:14 PM Author: Marvelous gay half-breed resort CHILDMOLESTORPWN3D. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053365) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 3:17 AM Author: self-absorbed passionate piazza personal credit line great post (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055277) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 10:59 PM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate perhaps when you stop treating associates as costs, we won't look at law firms as institutions.
considering the salaries other kids our age who didn't have to go to law school get in ibanking and trading, i'm sure you can understand our insecurity. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:06 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action So why are you comparing your salaries to those of I-bankers and traders, who have to work inhumane hours at tedious work? Lawyers actually get to have a life outside of work, and the work is significantly more interesting.
We don't look at associates as costs. We look at them as future partners. Of course, most of them don't end up as this, but that's not our fault. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:08 PM Author: Cyan Den yes, it is your fault, flamer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053304) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:10 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action No. If associates want to become partners, they'll do what it takes to make sure we know they deserve it. You don't just "fall into" partnership because you spend enough time at a firm. You have to earn it. Your generation just isn't used to earning things-- grades, material possessions, jobs-- but instead you have everything handed to you. That's the problem with your generation. Well, don't cry about it to me. If you had wanted to be partner, you'd have done the work to earn it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053328) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:13 PM Author: Judgmental school associate maybe law school shouldn't cost so much (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053349) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:18 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Law school costs what it does because it provides unparalleled earning opportunities. Business school students may earn more on average, but with much more risk (and when you're an adult, you'll realize that risk is not a good thing.) Don't complain about the costs when you're having opportunities that other people would pay twice as much to have. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053407) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:20 PM Author: Judgmental school associate unparalleled earning opps? what are smoking?
plumbers make more than most lawyers |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:21 PM Author: Cyan Den no, they don't. less hyperbole, please. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053446) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:22 PM Author: Judgmental school associate you don't very much about the plumbing industry, do you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053460) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:28 PM Author: Cyan Den high-end plumber $53,000: http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layoutscripts/swzl_compresult.asp?narrowdesc=&jobaltername=Level+III+Plumber&state=&searchpage=keywordtitleselect&searchtype=1&jobcode=SC16000006&statecode=&jobtitle=Plumber+III&narrowcode=SC02&metrocode=&geo=U.S.+National+Averages&narrowdesc=Construction+and+Installation&pagenumber=1&zipcode=&choosesignup=1&signupemail=none@nowhere.com
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos211.htm#earnings
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:30 PM Author: Judgmental school associate that's incorrect (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053553) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:31 PM Author: Cyan Den because you say so. i'll go with the bls and salary.com before some douche on the internet. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053568) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:33 PM Author: Judgmental school associate ok, 'tard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053592) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:28 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Most Americans will never earn one half of what biglaw attorneys make in their first year. You kids are a privileged class. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053528) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:31 PM Author: Judgmental school associate most americans are named Jamarcus or Miguel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053565) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:40 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Now that's just silly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053676) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:51 PM Author: Cruel-hearted state I think it is "uncommonly silly," as Justice Stewart would say. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053795) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:20 PM Author: Cyan Den why do doctors make so much more? the average lawyer only makes about $95,000. the average doctor makes nearly twice that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053438) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 9:55 AM Author: Shivering electric stead national security agency So law school costs what it does because it provides unparalleled earning opportunities, but law students are spoiled brats because they expect the unparalleled earning opportunities? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055709) |
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Date: February 13th, 2006 1:41 PM Author: Walnut Theatre Keepsake Machete nice catch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5074974) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:19 PM Author: Cyan Den wrong, flamer. even if every one did that, you wouldn't make them all partners. the only way you can get out of that fact is to introduce a tautology into "what it takes to make sure we know they deserve it." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053416) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:27 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action "If everyone did that" is a moot point because not everyone would. Some people are just lazy or stupid; others aren't right for law. It happens. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053515) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:30 PM Author: Cyan Den it's not moot, you mediocre flamer, because it demonstrates that firms would not make everyone partner even if everyone were qualified.
you probably write -- not wrote -- stupid shit like that on your exams. you tell the professor that his fact pattern is silly because it would never happen. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:36 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Trust me, if we could recruit a class where everyone was qualified to be a partner, we'd be ecstatic. We'd have so much money coming into the firm that we probably WOULD make a lot of partners. The fact is, though, that this will never happen. Most people are stupid and lazy, even from top law schools. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053637) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:37 PM Author: Judgmental school associate they're only stupid if they stick around (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053644) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:46 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action No, they're stupid because they fuck up at their work. This is a business where you only get one chance, a lot of the time. It's not for everyone, and most people don't have the intellectual endowment it takes to be a lawyer. The LSAT is not a great screen, in my opinion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053737) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:46 PM Author: Judgmental school associate "intellectual endowment"
your shtick had promise |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:49 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Am I a comedian to you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053774) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:19 AM Author: Cyan Den yes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054038) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:20 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action That's good. For a year after college, when I didn't know what I wanted to in life, I worked as a bartender in New York and did stand-up comedy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054042) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:21 AM Author: Judgmental school associate what toilet did you attend? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054051) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:24 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Actually, a very good school. UT-Austin. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054082) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:26 AM Author: Judgmental school associate dude, that's atrocious (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054109) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:29 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action UT-Austin has some stellar professors and gave me a wonderful education. I have no complaints about the place, and I donate frequently. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054153) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:31 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap HA! LEITERPWN3D!!!!! |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:31 AM Author: Judgmental school associate no more vince young though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054165) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:26 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea More flaming. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054112) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:30 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Yeah, it's "flame" for a successful, accomplished middle-aged man to be proud of the school he attended if it's not Harvard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054156) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:37 AM Author: swashbuckling embarrassed to the bone toaster You probably live in houston. Sucking the blood out of society by charging $500+ per hour. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054226) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:39 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action "I'm a hiring partner at a northeastern law firm."
I didn't mean northeastern Houston. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 7:06 AM Author: irradiated friendly grandma house what the fuck? of course it's the fault of the partners--if they weren't so damn greedy their leverage would be lower and there would be a lot more partners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055657) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:11 PM Author: vivacious indian lodge travel guidebook this is just awful (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053332) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:14 PM Author: exciting flatulent area jap It's rancid flame. btw, did your car ever start? |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:15 PM Author: vivacious indian lodge travel guidebook it's awful that somebody is putting time into this flame is what i meant.
it was the battery. i'm a moron. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:17 PM Author: exciting flatulent area jap the flame is awful: the expenditure of effort to make it is equally awful not a moron: it never happened to you before, and your battery was not that old |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:43 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate You would do well not to call partners "flamers" in practice. Legal practice is a privilege. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055118) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:42 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate Associates are, in a sense, costs. We cannot ignore that reality. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055114) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:00 PM Author: Marvelous gay half-breed resort you should hire more blacks, you racist piece of shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053233) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:06 PM Author: Cyan Den maybe you should join the ama instead. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:07 PM Author: Supple multi-billionaire I stopped reading after "once-noble practice of law." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053302) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:15 PM Author: Naked Toilet Seat "This I find sickening: do you kids realize how privileged you would be to earn $100k at 25, much less $125k? My parents were both lawyers and didn't crack six figures until they were in their FIFTIES, and they brought me up just fine."
INFLATION MOTHER FUCKER. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:20 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I meant six figures combined. Also, this was the '80s; the hyperinflation happened in the '70s. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053432) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:24 PM Author: Cyan Den $63,000 in 1980 would be equivalent to $145,000 today. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053486) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:10 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Right, but they were in their fifties, not 25. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054473) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:52 AM Author: hyperactive multi-colored chapel genital piercing That's pathetic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054787) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:58 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action They had values other than money; they actually cared about making a positive difference in the world, and they did. They mattered more to their community than I do to mine. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054842) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:04 AM Author: hyperactive multi-colored chapel genital piercing They should have been cops: http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=356291&mc=8&forum_id=2
...or maybe doctors. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:51 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate Police officers are the heros of our nation. The probably deserve twice that amount. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055158) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:49 PM Author: fragrant digit ratio Could this actually be someone from NYPD Rant? Do they have any posters that could actually pull this schtick off? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5057475) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:15 PM Author: puce liquid oxygen water buffalo why to NBA players make millions?
because the owners make hundreds of millions.
overpaid partners earn their fat undeserved salaries off of associates' backs. the $125k-$250k that 1st through 10th year associates make is a SMALL fraction of the amount the partners rake in from the billables they generate.
if you wanna give the associates a paycut, take a paycut yourself.
or, more to the point, when you want to post shit flame, learn some basic law firm economics before you mouth off. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:24 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action No, because it actually costs a lot of money to train and recruit associates. What, do you think those fancy restaurants provide the meals in the summer for free, as some gesture of good will? No.
During the first three years, associates are huge money-LOSERS, especially given all the things they fuck up that we have to fix. They're money-winners in the next few years, but they should be; they have to pay off their debts.
"if you wanna give the associates a paycut, take a paycut yourself."
This makes no sense. If everyone's pay were cut, then the money would just go back to the equity partners. Do you have any idea how partnerships work? |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:24 AM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate "No, because it actually costs a lot of money to train and recruit associates. What, do you think those fancy restaurants provide the meals in the summer for free, as some gesture of good will? No."
This is the typical crap that law firms dish out. We had a long thread debating this at one point, and I tended to agree with the people who say that this is bullshit. You guys still earn tons of money off first years. That PPP number doesn't come entirely from partner's schmoozing.
" If everyone's pay were cut, then the money would just go back to the equity partners. "
I think the poster was suggesting that you raise associate salaries, which would end up reducing your PPP because you'd have less profits. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:26 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action "I think the poster was suggesting that you raise associate salaries, which would end up reducing your PPP because you'd have less profits."
Now, why would we do that? When I was an associate, partners didn't cut their salaries so I, special little me, could have a fatter paycheck. If I cut the current crop a break, I'm putting myself at a severe loss. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 7:12 AM Author: irradiated friendly grandma house and here you again show that partners are just as greedy as everyone else. hypocritical asshole (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055660) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:20 PM Author: Hairraiser bearded milk Subject: Cost How much did your parents have to pay for lawschool?
Do you realize through the magic of interest, people can come out with HUGE six figure loans, which just keep magically expanding every single month, (a 7% interest rate is nothing to joke about).
You say kids are privileged to be making that much money, but is it really a privilege to be basically an indentured servant to your loan creditor?
Times have changed, and the world needs to keep adjusting. |
Date: February 10th, 2006 11:01 PM Author: swashbuckling embarrassed to the bone toaster OP has down syndrome or something. That post made absolutely no sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053240) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:03 PM Author: Marvelous gay half-breed resort it made perfect sense you fucking idiot. what is it with you and "down syndrome"? can't you think of anything else you white piece of shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053264) |
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Date: March 4th, 2006 1:49 AM Author: dark sticky philosopher-king Subject: strom thurmond = patrick es vine. one is vitriolic; the other is just asinine. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5242446) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:04 PM Author: excitant bossy sanctuary weed whacker 180. Best thread ever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053268) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:14 PM Author: talking parlor roommate Purchasing Power Parity. 100K in the 50's is at least 750 k today. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053362) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:26 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I said THEIR fifties, which were in the '80s. Reading is fundamental. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053502) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:29 PM Author: translucent heady library macaca 100k in the 80's is 200-250k today. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053536) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:40 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Right, and that's combined. Also, they were in a line of work (PI) where money came in spurts, and might not come at all for some time. So there was a lot of risk involved (by "risk" I mean variance, aka standard deviation) and they spent several decades making much less than that.
$200-250k is solid for a couple in their fifties, but it's not extravagant. Two biglaw associates make that in their first year. My point is that it took them three decades to get up to a level of comfort you kids take for granted, and often consider not good enough. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:42 PM Author: Judgmental school associate your dad came in spurts too
he should have stopped before he conceived you |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:45 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Oh, that's mature. I'm sure you'd tell a partner at your (future) firm that to his face. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053717) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:47 PM Author: Judgmental school associate I'm don't have to "work" for a living
thanks for playing though |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:53 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Yes, because old money Society people use retorts like "your dad came in spurts too". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053820) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:43 AM Author: Light Contagious Forum Trump Supporter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054265) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:48 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate On further reflection, I realized that partners often come in spurts during firm receptions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055141) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:47 PM Author: Cyan Den so they were ambulance chasers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053741) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:52 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action They never chased an ambulance, ever. They were always sure to be respectful of their client's needs and well-being. Unlike your generation, they had values, and they treated each of their clients as a person rather than as a cash cow. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053808) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:55 PM Author: Cyan Den oh, they chased slip-and-falls. not much difference. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053841) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:02 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action No. They helped people who had fallen into terrible situations recover from them. Unlike you selfish brats, they WANTED TO HELP PEOPLE. I know that this concept is impossible for your generation to understand. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053916) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:48 PM Author: frozen spectacular plaza persian We're not in PI.
And there's no way in hell you're a firm lawyer, let alone a partner. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:51 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Indeed I am. It took me twelve years to get there (partner, that is) but I proved my stuff and earned it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053791) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:16 PM Author: mewling pozpig newt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053384) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:18 PM Author: exciting flatulent area jap ha I thought the op was you, trolling. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:19 PM Author: mewling pozpig newt At this point it would be premature to rule that out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053421) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:21 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053443) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:23 PM Author: Marvelous gay half-breed resort if he's white, then yes, he does. only whites play that shit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053468) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:23 PM Author: mewling pozpig newt I have no soul. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053476) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:22 PM Author: Aggressive point I'm just a lowly contract attorney, Patrick. Do you hate me too?! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053463) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:23 PM Author: Marvelous gay half-breed resort no, allah hates you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053471) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:24 PM Author: exciting flatulent area jap hey, I made a thread for you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053488) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:23 PM Author: lime cheese-eating principal's office In other breaking news, bacon is fattening (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053473) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:24 PM Author: mewling pozpig newt Get out! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053484) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:29 PM Author: Comical orange sandwich Hey... are you on IM tonight? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053546) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:29 PM Author: Judgmental school associate is this NYCfan? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053539) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:43 AM Author: Light Contagious Forum Trump Supporter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054269) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:31 PM Author: Comical orange sandwich This is the worst thread I've ever read. You sir, are an arrogant, ill-minded, smug old fucker who thinks your age makes you superior to other people because, after looking back upon a failed life, you've realized that years are all you have. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053564) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:34 PM Author: Cyan Den "old" = 20's. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053605) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:41 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I'm 43. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053683) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:49 PM Author: frozen spectacular plaza persian It's just flame, pensive. I'm surprised you bought it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053766) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:09 AM Author: Comical orange sandwich I think he's serious. While what he has to say is certainly offensive, and frankly the guy reminds me of Bill O'Reilly, I think he's quite serious in saying it. His opinions are not that far outside the mainstream for a "tough love" conservative in his 40s. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053959) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:09 PM Author: frozen spectacular plaza persian No. He's an xoxoer. Partners are smarter than to do this kind of shit (even if they might share these sentiments) and more importantly the guy is using all kinds of abbreviations specific to the board. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056088) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:44 AM Author: Light Contagious Forum Trump Supporter (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054274) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:37 PM Author: translucent heady library macaca I love how he thinks its a priviledge to work biglaw hours for what amounts to $45-50 an hour.
65 hours a week 50 weeks a year is 3250 hours. Divide 145,000 by that! This is before taxes to!
Now I will be making 1/2 this per hour and I sure as hell dont see it as a priviledge and I wouldnt even see is a such if I was making biglaw money. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:42 PM Author: Insanely creepy french chef you get pwn3d everytime you turn around. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053693) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:44 PM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor Northwestern is a TTT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053712) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:44 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Oh, $45-50/hour at 25, for intellectually stimulating work with no risk of physical injury in comfortable conditions, and with great exit options. Woe surely is you!
When I was growing up, we HAD to take real jobs in order to pay for college: UPS, truck driving during the summer, and bartending during the year. (You could bartend at 18 back then.) So we appreciated law because we had a basis for comparison. You kids have never worked real jobs before, so when you come in and it's not like undergrad, whcih babies you, you shit your pants. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:49 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action If you worked hard in REAL JOBS with real people, you'd know that $45-50/hour, with low variance, for a 25-year-old is a sweet deal. This is especially true when the work is intellectually stimulating and safe. Last time I checked, lawyers fall into machinery and die at their jobs.
If you will "continue to do so", work hard that is, you shouldn't have any objections to what I'm saying, because you'll have no problem making partner. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:51 PM Author: Judgmental school associate talk to self much? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053803) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:55 PM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action That message was in response to the one below. It ended up in the wrong place. Weird.
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:45 PM Author: Drewsucksoe is a virgin faggot
You're a fucking idiot, way to make assumptions about everyone in a given age group. Some of us have worked hard and will continue to do so. Fuck you.
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:51 AM Author: vivacious indian lodge travel guidebook oh god that just made me choke on my peanut butter and jelly sandwich. choking on peanut butter sucks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054324) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:45 PM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor You're a fucking idiot, way to make assumptions about everyone in a given age group. Some of us have worked hard and will continue to do so. Fuck you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053727) |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:50 PM Author: swashbuckling embarrassed to the bone toaster While it is true that our generation has never performed manual labor. We have not been living slothful or unproductive lives. We have focussed on our studies exclusively, and as a result, we are all Philosopher Kings.
This is the necessary path to take in contemporary times. With the world a smaller place due to globalization, philosopher kings are needed at the nucleus to serve the 6 billion+ international market. Needless to say the world's nucleus, or financial center, is America. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:00 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action "We have focussed on our studies exclusively, and as a result, we are all Philosopher Kings."
"Philosopher Kings"? Do you brats even know where that phrase comes from?
I can't believe you just said that. You kids don't have the right to call yourself "philosopher kings"; you let MTV and Comedy Central pass as philosophy. As for your "studies", most of you study such useless garbage in college, and don't even go to class half the time. You're not fooling anyone.
"With the world a smaller place due to globalization, philosopher kings are needed at the nucleus to serve the 6 billion+ international market."
Yes. I'm sure 6+ billion people, 75% of whom just worry about getting the day's food, are all going to stop in unison to listen to a bunch of spoiled, jejune, smarter-than-thou "philosopher kings" for how they should conduct their lives. At least the beatniks and the hippies knew they were irrelevant. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:08 AM Author: translucent heady library macaca dude you are a an American dont pretend that you know hardship because you have no fucking idea. You did shit to earn your position in life when compared to what some people go through, okay. Bartending and working for UPS is nothing compared to what people in other countries consider normal. Go dig with a handmade shovel for 8 hours a day in a Ukrainian coal mine for a few years while earning an engineering degree at night and then get back to me.
Americans are a really funny people when it comes to thinking they know hard times because there isnt a person in this country who has went through truly hard times. Even the homeless in this society are in the top 20% of income earners world wide! |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 8:19 PM Author: bronze idiotic church building TITCR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5060641) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:13 AM Author: swashbuckling embarrassed to the bone toaster Damn kids. They're all alike...
But did you, in your three-piece psychology and 1950's technobrain, ever take a look behind the eyes of a philosopher king or hacker? Did you ever wonder what made him tick, what forces shaped him, what may have molded him?
I am a philosopher king, enter my world...
Mine is a world that begins with school... I'm smarter than most of the other kids, this crap they teach us bores me...
Damn underachiever. They're all alike.
I'm in junior high or high school. I've listened to teachers explain for the fifteenth time how to reduce a fraction. I understand it. "No, Ms. Smith, I didn't show my work. I did it in my head..."
Damn kid. Probably copied it. They're all alike.
I made a discovery today. I found a computer and database of infinite knowledge, known as the internet. Wait a second, this is cool. It does what I want it to. If it makes a mistake, it's because I screwed it up. Not because it doesn't like me... Or feels threatened by me.. Or thinks I'm a smart ass.. Or doesn't like teaching and shouldn't be here...
Damn kid. All he does is play games. They're all alike.
And then it happened... a door opened to a world... rushing through the phone line like heroin through an addict's veins, an electronic pulse is sent out, a refuge from the day-to-day incompetencies is sought... a board is found. "This is it... this is where I belong..." I know everyone here... even if I've never met them, never talked to them, may never hear from them again... I know you all...
Damn kid. Tying up the phone line again. They're all alike...
You bet your ass we're all alike... we've been spoon-fed baby food at school when we hungered for steak... the bits of meat that you did let slip through were pre-chewed and tasteless. We've been dominated by sadists, or ignored by the apathetic. The few that had something to teach found us willing pupils, but those few are like drops of water in the desert.
This is our world now... the world of the electron and the switch, the beauty of the baud. We make use of a service already existing without paying for what could be dirt-cheap if it wasn't run by profiteering gluttons, and you call us criminals. We explore... and you call us criminals. We seek after knowledge... and you call us criminals. We exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias... and you call us criminals. You build atomic bombs, you wage wars, you murder, cheat, and lie to us and try to make us believe it's for our own good, yet we're the criminals.
Yes, I am a criminal. My crime is that of curiosity. My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think, not what they look like. My crime is that of outsmarting you, something that you will never forgive me for.
I am a philosopher king, and this is my manifesto. You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all... after all, we're all alike. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:16 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action That was very well-written. Yours? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054018) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:27 AM Author: swashbuckling embarrassed to the bone toaster Thank you if things go my way I will run for the presidency. I will not have any xoxo'rs on my cabinet. EXCEPT for those that have displayed traits of PKs. Call me picky, hehe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054115) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:29 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Who would those be?
I don't follow this board and only know of 174 and pensive. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 10:42 AM Author: Sapphire haunting partner useless brakes This is maybe the funniest post here, and a dead giveaway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055751) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:29 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea Learn to use Google, dipshit.
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:32 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Why would I know anything about "The Hacker Manifesto"? Unlike your immoral, busted generation, I don't romanticize antisocial behaviors such as computer information theft. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054172) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:35 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea You don't have to know about it. I didn't. But I knew that asking the question you did was stupid. You only have to know how to use the most popular tool on the internet.
Old people sure are stupid these days.
Then again, you're not old. You're an xoxohth poster.
But I'll play along just for fun. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:36 AM Author: swashbuckling embarrassed to the bone toaster Ok fucker, admit that your Brian Leiter. I know your MO mr. leiter. Go troll on your own fucking blog. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054214) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:38 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Is he the rankings freak? I don't like him that much. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054232) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:42 AM Author: swashbuckling embarrassed to the bone toaster LOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054259) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:44 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap Subject: "Unlike your immoral, busted generation, I don't romanticize an" This is choice flame. 174. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054278) |
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Date: April 27th, 2006 5:10 AM Author: Iridescent sinister hell hahahahaha
You thought it was real? |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:50 PM Author: exciting flatulent area jap I'll humor the troll: It was actually the original Greedy Associates who fucked things up in the OP's view, a decade ago. Trot out the old diatribes against Gunderson and the $125K starting salary. Renada is far more to blame than the law students posting here. In fact, so is the OP. Since the 1st years' salaries were jacked up, the salaries of more senior associates were jacked up in proportion, to stop their whining and crying. So, OP, look at the greedy thieving bastard in the mirror before you post here. |
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Date: February 10th, 2006 11:53 PM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor "Renada is far more to blame than the law students posting here."
LMAO |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:01 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action The difference, though, is that partners take home only the money they make for the firm. Associates are given tenure only on a provisional basis; considering opportunity costs, they're money-losers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053901) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:03 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap Associates are the Holsteins, the partners run the milking machines. hth. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:06 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action This is so inaccurate. Not only did partners prove themselves through an exhausting climb that took years, but they spent the time to nurture the contacts. Partners are the source of clientele, and without them, all the work would leave. Do you really think a roving band of socially-awkward 25-year-olds, who know fuck-all about law outisde of the classroom, could entice blue-chip clients to give them work? Obviously, the answer is no. Partners are the source of work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053940) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:14 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap Partners are the source of work, just like the farmers are the source of hay and grain. The associates still produce the product for sale. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053996) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:18 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action You clearly don't understand the working world. When you're 45, and have worked hard for decades to establish a reputation and nurture social relationships, you won't want some 25-year-old kid coming in and feeling entitled to the clientele and good name you broke your back to earn. It is a PRIVILEGE for them to be able to work with the clients we earned and associate with the good name we built. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054035) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:29 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap After the cows have received the privilege of delivering their milk to the farmer, they receive the further privilege of being ground up for the baloney that the OP is trying to peddle here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054148) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:35 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Your analogy is utterly worthless; it makes no sense. Cows are milked heavily and then slaughtered for beef. Associates are given lots of money in a cushy job, only to be promoted to partner where they can be given MORE money for a cushy job.
Cows don't survive slaughter. I survived my associate years; I made extra efforts to do the work well, and I enjoyed them. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:36 AM Author: Thriller Pungent Home associates have a cushy job, yet you "survived" yours?
word is billables have gone up while partnerhip opportunities are dimmer than ever. If anything your time as an associate was cushy. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:44 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action My associate years were good. I like being a partner better, obviously, but it was better than mere "survival". I think, though, that my wife and my faith were invaluable in making me as productive and optimistic as I needed to be to become this successful.
Billables have gone up because people have gotten lazier and are doing less work per hour. Out of 100 billed hours, 15 are spent on the Internet, at this Fark.com site or whatever is all the rage these days, 10 are spent discussing movies on the cell phone, and 10 more are spent on extraneous trips to the coffee machine. So, of course billables are going up, given all the stuff that gets billed as "work" around a firm.
Partnership opportunities are dim for the same reasons: law schools have relaxed their standards, and associates are dumber, lazier, and with worse values than ever. Fewer of them make partner because most of them don't deserve it at all.
My time as an associate was NOT cushy. The percentages may have been better, but the competition was steep. People worked hard, real hard. Today, you kids can half-ass it and still get partner by your 9th year or so. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:51 AM Author: Thriller Pungent Home right and clients don't complain?
if anything associates are getting more efficient. The very technology that you deride only serves as an electronic leash on today's "soft" associates. Hitting the books? Why bother when you have westlaw and lexis, which enables us to work at an efficiency your generation could never dream of. Blackberries? cellphones? we can even do work at home! We are on call 24 hours a day, to fully "service" the client, the very one you think we disrespect. Kids today work hard, damned hard. And we're twice as efficient as your generation. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:03 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action We give you those Blackberries and cell phones to make your lives more convenient, and the privilege of working at home should not be underestimated. Even when I was going through the process, if I wanted to work on a Saturday or Sunday, I had to spend 30 minutes, each way, getting into the office. So please don't complain, because we're giving you great opportunities, and to whine about the fact that we give you TOO MANY of them is just idiocy.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you kids work hard. You were raised by MTV, and you think posting on Fark.com constitutes acceptable workplace behavior. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:06 AM Author: Thriller Pungent Home Subject: you forgot to mention your 10 mile trek in the snow.
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:11 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action No, but it does get cold with the wind between those buildings. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054481) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:43 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap If the ratio of associates to partner is 5 to one, but the firm grows at only 5% per year, then only one of 20 incoming associates can make partner. The rest are culled and slaughtered. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054264) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:46 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action They aren't "culled and slaughtered"; they have great exit options. They aren't even fired, most of the time. If they want to stay on at an advanced associate salary indefinitely, they can. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054288) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:49 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap Subject: "great exit options" Oscar Meyer, Eckrich, Cudahy, Hillshire Farms If the pyramid scheme of hiring 3Ls and squeezing the milk out of them didn't make law firms obscene sums of money, they wouldn't do it. HTH. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:51 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Most associates don't go to work in the meatpacking industry, actually. They go in-house at companies, or to smaller firms, or into investment banking. It's a pretty fucking sweet life and only a bunch of spoiled brats would be unable to appreciate it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054320) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:53 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap Subject: New analogy They're treated like a stick of chewing gum: once the flavor's gone, the partners spit them out onto the sidewalk. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054331) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:55 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action You've obviously never worked in a law firm. Associates come out of them, even if not promoted to partners, with much better lives and life prospects then they had when they entered. If "by onto the sidewalk" you mean, sent into great in-house jobs, at smaller firms, or in banking, then you might have some fraction of a point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054349) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:01 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap There are few in-house jobs for litigators. hth. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:04 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Not all lawyers are litigators. If you want to work in-house, maybe try something else. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054420) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:54 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea Investment banking! Flame! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054341) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:57 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I wouldn't want to be an analyst at one of those, but most attorneys are hired at the associate level, which allows them to bypass the worst of the hours and pressure. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054364) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:14 AM Author: hyperactive multi-colored chapel genital piercing It looks like the point is that you implied a meaningful number become investment bankers. That's quite rare. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054502) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:34 AM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate somewhat do able at a V5 firm if you practice securities, for example, but even then it is difficult. quite rare below that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054657) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:38 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action It's only seen as "difficult" to go into banking from law because lawyers are risk-averse and don't want to brave the process. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054682) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:37 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action It's probably rare because most lawyers don't want to suffer the long hours and pressure of investment banking. Law wins in terms of lifestyle and job security.
A mediocre student at a good school can become an investment banker right out of college. Whereas law takes brains and effort. So, pretty much any lawyer can be an investment banker if he wants. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:55 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap I forgot to address this issue: when you're 45 and spent a dozen years schmoozing instead of working -- living off the backs of others -- you ought to feel ashamed of yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054348) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:56 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action What you young people cynically call "schmoozing" is what our generation called establishing a good name through honest work and mutual benefit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054357) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:59 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap And taking clients to NFL games, playing golf with clients, expense account dinners with clients, etc. etc. etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054380) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:05 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action We exist to serve our clients, and if we ignore them, we disappear. So, yes, if the client wants to meet us on the golf course, we go. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054432) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:06 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location Finally, someone speaks the truth. You are all a bunch of whiney fucks who know absolutely nothing about the real world, let alone the legal world, and you certainly wouldn't know a god damn thing about actually doing something called work. You expect everyone to hand everything to you and then fucking whine about it when it isn't handed to you in that idealized little packaged form that you have created in your twisted, demented little heads. I hope every single one of those coveted firms ding you at OCI or fire you within the year after you are hired when the firm finds out what pathetic little ingrates you people really are. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053943) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:08 AM Author: Judgmental school associate hi patrick (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053952) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:09 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location Trust me, more than one person in this world thinks you are all a bunch of socially retarded pathetic ingrates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053961) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:15 AM Author: Judgmental school associate a lot of bored partners on a friday night (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054004) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:17 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location I'm not a partner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054024) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:21 AM Author: Judgmental school associate you don't have what it takes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054055) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:28 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location If by that you mean whining and expecting everything to be handed to me like a child, you are correct. If your powers of imagination are taking you elsewhere in this conversation by assuming I am a partner or an associate waiting to be a partner or whatever else you choose to assume about me to justify your own obvious guilt about being a worthless pathetic fuck, then you might want to actually base that on something resembling a fact. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054135) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:34 AM Author: Judgmental school associate I stopped reading after "If."
but yeah, something like that |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:36 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location It's ok, I didn't expect you to. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054209) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:52 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate Be careful. Future partners are always careful to carefuly tailor and craft their language to the situation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055165) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:11 AM Author: translucent heady library macaca there is absolutely nothing in life that you need to be grateful for because you either a)earned it with your own sweat or b) it fell into your lap thanks to the law of large number in which case there is no point in being grateful to the law of averages since it isnt a living breathing thing.
Conversely when bad shit happens you either a)did something that brought it on or b) the law of large number fucked you for a change.
Gratitude is a TTT religous/philisophical/puritanical idea for which there is very little logic basis.
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:13 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location Actually, I agree. But my post had nothing at all to do with being grateful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5053992) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:15 AM Author: translucent heady library macaca " or fire you within the year after you are hired when the firm finds out what pathetic little INGRATES you people really are."
You could have fooled me. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:16 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location Wow, way to make a huge leap. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054012) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:22 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I'm not a statistician, but wouldn't it be the Law of Small Numbers that results in lucky breaks? The Law of Large Numbers tends to smooth things out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054058) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:20 PM Author: Chrome people who are hurt hospital titcream. the law of large numbers has nothing to do with what he was trying to say. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056594) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:16 AM Author: saffron fiercely-loyal wagecucks Musta felt good to get that out, eh? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054015) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:18 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location Yes. I feel better now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054029) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:13 AM Author: Boyish University Ok, after having read the board all day, i think i have this mess figured out.
the OP = 174 = Kanye West.
hope that helps. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:15 AM Author: stimulating sound barrier institution "the obsession over "Profits Per Partner" means that a firm that has a couple of bad years goes into the toilet in terms of reputation, clientele, and standing."
yeah, i heard that chase is severing all ties w/milbank because someone here said they were a ttt. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:25 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action What's a ttt? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054089) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:28 AM Author: swashbuckling embarrassed to the bone toaster Third Tier Toilet (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054131) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:18 AM Author: saffron fiercely-loyal wagecucks OP, your flame sucks but you got tons of replies. That deserves some sort of recognition, I suppose. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054031) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:21 AM Author: Boyish University the weakest point in the flame is where he pretends to be a mature adult with kids.
seriously, the mature adult with kids and a responsible attitude is not posting here. it is so implausible that it makes the flame feel forced. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:23 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action My kids are in bed; my wife is reading. So I'm on the computer, and I decided to see what this "xoxohth" the young associates talk about was. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054074) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:24 AM Author: Judgmental school associate what's your wife wearing? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054087) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:25 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Hopefully nothing. :) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054101) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:26 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea Yeah, people are always talking about xoxohth at work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054107) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:29 AM Author: Fantasy-prone death wish POW! you get the big prize. it's a little known fact that nobody talks about xoxo in law school, or at work. they may visit, sure, but nobody talks about it. this guy is flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054147) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:50 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea The first rule of xoxohth is you do not talk about xoxohth... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054314) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:56 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location In the legal world, it would be kind of like admitting to surfing the web for child porn. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054356) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:59 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I don't think it's that bad. I had only heard it mentioned in passing by a couple of associates, and not as if it were anything dirty. It wouldn't seem like such a big deal to me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054378) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:02 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location Let's just say that if you stuck around long enough to see more of what goes on here, you'd see why no one would admit to coming here, especially in the context of a professional environment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054409) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:06 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Having read some of the threads recently, I can agree with this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054441) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:08 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location It gets much worse. It's pretty tame tonight. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054456) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:27 AM Author: Boyish University who lets a partner hear him talk about xoxo? we are not morons. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054125) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:36 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I overheard, and it was only mentioned in passing. Given the behaviors I see on this site, I can understand that someone wouldn't want to admit posting to it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054215) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:25 AM Author: Brindle rigor space Transparent and awful flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054092) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:25 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea then don't pay so much. it's your firm; take control. no one's forcing you to pay $145k. go ahead an pay $100k. go look for those earnest souls with justice in their veins. there's nothing stopping you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054098) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:28 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action The problem is that if we set salaries at $100k, not only will associates not want to work with us, but it will hurt our image. Image means a lot in this business, and associate payscale is often taken to represent the health of the firm. This is exactly why we pay you kids such inflated, undeserved salaries. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054130) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:30 AM Author: Concupiscible stage I think 100k is a pittance for the undivided attention and efforts of a person who is generally in the top 1-3% of the nation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054154) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:47 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action $100k is better than 97th percentile for a 25-year-old. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054297) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:52 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea Who cares? It's approximately equivalent to $82,000 given law student loans. Loans are a cost of doing business. We might as well treat them like it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054325) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:53 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Yes, and those loans were taken because the loanee paid for an EDUCATION. He got something in return; it can't be said that he spent that loan money on something he didn't find worthwhile and useful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054332) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:57 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap The loan is the cost of processing an asset into a useful form. Lawfirms should pay law students' tuition, since the firm derives the benefits from their education. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054370) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:24 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action No, really we shouldn't pay a dime for their tuition. They go to these schools because they want to work for us and employers like us, and know full well that they'll have to pay for the privilege of having such an elite education. There's nothing wrong with the system as-is; it shouldn't change. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054581) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:23 PM Author: Chrome people who are hurt hospital they already do pay law students' tuition. absent the tuition debt, there would be less market force for high salaries and they would be lower. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056623) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:01 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea And law firms spend money on electricity, water, and office space. They get something useful from it. But they aren't so foolish as to think that the money spent on those things is income. They're requisites of doing business, just as a law school education is necessary for a lawyer to go about his business. And we shouldn't be so foolish as to think that the money spent on that education should count as income.
And don't ever use an unnecessary shitball of negatives like that again. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:28 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action The electricity and water are necessities; that's different. Education is a luxury. It's a PRIVILEGE, and one that the average blue-collar worker would be thankful to have. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054611) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:46 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea God, you're so fucking stupid. Necessity exists only in relation to some goal or purpose.
Electricity, water, and office space are necessary to the operation of a modern law office. Law school is necessary for one to work as a lawyer.
Your blue collar comment is a red herring.
You have a sub-par intellect.
Well, you have a sub-par intellect or you're intellectually dishonest. You conveniently didn't address office space. Why? It's pretty clear. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:50 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Office space is also a necessity for a firm.
Law school is necessary if you want to work *as a lawyer*, but you didn't have to enter law. You could have chosen to work as something else, like a teacher or doctor. Entry into this profession is a privilege, not a right. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:58 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea "Office space is also a necessity for a firm."
A legal education is necessary for lawyers.
"Law school is necessary if you want to work *as a lawyer*, but you didn't have to enter law."
Electricity, water, and office space are necessary if you want to operate a business *as a law firm*, but you don't have to run a law firm.
"You could have chosen to work as something else..."
You could have chosen to run a different business.
"...like a teacher or doctor."
...like a gas station or hot dog seller.
"Entry into this profession is a privilege, not a right."
Irrelevant. You're getting your ass kicked. You either will be or are a shitty lawyer. There's no doubt about that. The point is that costs of doing business are not properly called income in this case. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:01 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I agree that costs of doing business are not usually counted as income. However, consider all the things that come along with a law school education, all the privileges, even outside of the ability to work in this great profession. You get three years to associate with bright, interesting people. You get an education that improves you as a person as much as it does you as a lawyer. You get an all-around great experience. It'd be worth it even if it weren't lucrative. It's a luxury, an asset to one's life, and it counts as a benefit. If anything, law school is underpriced. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054866) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:05 AM Author: hyperactive multi-colored chapel genital piercing You got slaughtered. You've fallen back to a bad mitigation strategy.
Some bright lawyer you are. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:10 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action No, my point is valid. Education is a luxury and a service, and usually priced below the actual costs. You're privileged if you get the chance to attend a law school, especially if it's any good one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054916) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:16 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea It doesn't matter if it's priced below cost or above. That doesn't change the accounting scheme. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054965) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:20 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I'm tired of arguing about this. Anyone who has had the privilege of a legal education has no right to complain. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054990) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:11 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea Yeah, there are benefits to electricity, water, and office space, too. The point, to which the first sentence of your post concedes, is that my claim regarding the accounting of income was right.
"If anything, law school is underpriced."
It's so underpriced that applications to law school are dropping! |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:19 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action They're probably dropping because websites like this make partners sound like horrid assholes (when, in fact, I find my fellow partners to be a great group of people) and biglaw sound like a labor camp. No wonder fewer applications are being sent. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054980) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 7:38 AM Author: irradiated friendly grandma house right, the idea that biglaw is like a labor camp has nothing to do with how associates are actually treated and everything to do with internet message boards... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055667) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:33 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea Of course they'll want to work for you! You're going to look for those earnest souls, remember?
But then you say, "This is exactly why we pay you kids such inflated, undeserved salaries." Then quit bitching. You're being rewarded for what you're paying. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:35 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location You need a psych test to weed out the ones who are like that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054205) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:06 AM Author: Beta appetizing candlestick maker faggot firefighter free market motherfucker! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054440) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:27 AM Author: Concupiscible stage I find it amusing to think that, if the OP were to compete in the current law school admissions climate, he wouldn't have gotten into his school. The OP forgets who he is talking to: the upper rung. We know how to work for success, we wouldn't be elite if we didn't. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054121) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:44 AM Author: translucent heady library macaca you go to law school not med school, you are not elite. The most TTT doctor is better educated than you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054273) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:48 AM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor You go to TTTulane, shut your fucking mouth you TTT loser. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054303) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:33 AM Author: Judgmental school associate ok, how much should we get paid? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054181) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:49 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action 1st-4th year: $65k to start, with a $10k jump each year. Up to $20k bonuses at year's end.
5th-8th year: $15k jump after that, similar bonuses. This gets you to $155k by the end of your 8th year. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:50 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap Ha. You can get that kind of money from the DA's office here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054316) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:00 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action And it's good money. I can't even imagine that people consider that laughable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054387) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:03 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap Only problem is, you can't buy a house on it, even with two incomes. Trailer park life is possible, however. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054411) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:11 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea You could get a killer $185k loan on that if you saved no money for retirement. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054482) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:22 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Maybe not in New York, but in most of the country, you can buy a house on $65k/year. It's relatively easy to live on that sort of income. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054563) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:44 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap put down the crack pipe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054723) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:48 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action In most of the country:
Living: $1000/month Food: $200/month Gas/Bills/necessities: $300/month
It seems that one can do well on much less than $65k. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:00 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea Living: $1000/month --> in a sub-median house.
And there's no money for retirement and savings. Sounds like a great scheme you've envisioned. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:08 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I enjoy my work too much to think about retirement. Plus, I'm not saying that the associates would be at $65k the whole time. It's just that I'd start them there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054904) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 3:21 PM Author: fragrant digit ratio "I enjoy my work too much to think about retirement."
Because how much one 'likes' their work in their 40s outweighs being able to pay for food, medication, and general living expenses in their 80s. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:04 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea $65k! Hah, hah, hah. After accounting for loans, that's about the equivalent of $47k. Sounds like a great deal. I'd love to go to 7 years of higher education for a whopping $47k/year. Then again, maybe I'll just go to Hamburger University and become a manager at McDonalds. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054424) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:15 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action A lot of people would go through 7 years of higher education for that salary. Your teachers and professors would think $47k is pretty good for a 25-year-old. Postdocs don't pay that much, nor do residencies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054509) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:48 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap professors have much more control over their lives and what they want to work on than do lawyers -- it's a tradeoff. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054750) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:52 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Professors have almost no geographic mobility, and a 50% or worse chance of putting in all that time on the PhD NOT to get any academic job at all. Moreover, their perceived autonomy comes at a price; if they want tenure, they better find the "right" area and work in precisely it, because in anything else, their futures are doomed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054786) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:07 AM Author: hyperactive multi-colored chapel genital piercing The average doctor makes about 60% to 80% more than the average lawyer (depending on who's counting).
What professors and teachers think is irrelevant. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:15 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Yes, but I would argue that, because doctors have to go through more rigorous training, higher admissions requirements, and take on more risk, they deserve higher pay. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054963) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:37 PM Author: Hairraiser bearded milk an engineering PhD will get you six figures. I don't know about other PhDs but I know a lot of engineering PhDs and they all have gotten 6 figure salaries. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056735) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 3:25 PM Author: fragrant digit ratio "A lot of people would go through 7 years of higher education for that salary."
This makes no sense. The only reason someone would go through 7 years for that kind of salary is if the difference between that and the salary they could have gotten otherwise was substantial. You are completely ignoring the opportunity cost here. Since many law students could easily have achieved $47K after merely 4 years of higher education, there would be no incentive to go through the work and struggle of three more years of school. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 7:41 AM Author: irradiated friendly grandma house this is not unreasonable if you run a firm where:
odds of partnership are far higher; hours are lower; and clients are billed less |
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Date: March 3rd, 2006 10:51 PM Author: vibrant set scourge upon the earth Subject: This is all BS A friend's son linked me to this particular post which he got off of the greedyassociates site.
This guy is either pulling your collective chains or he is the most misinformed partner I have ever encountered.
Partnership prospects: any intellectually honest partner will acknowledge that partnership is not a pure meritocracy (or even popularity contest)... luck, business environment, and the firm's overall business plan play a pretty large role in the partnership decision and if you are in the right place at the right time, your chances of partnership are better than a more meritorious associate who is in the wrong department. The idea that they would make every associate a partner if they had the raw ability and worked really hard is total bullsh*t and most people realize it by the time they are mid-level associates.
career oportunities, you guys are all over-paid BUT the likelihood is that after about 5 or 6 years you will be taking a pretty large pay cut and will have saved AT MOST a couple of hundred thousand dollars, your I-banking counterparts see the axe fall a little sooner (about their 4th year) but they can squirrel away a million in that time if they do not live extravagantly. The idea that any significant percentage of biglaw associates go to i-banking, in house positions and become partners at lower tier firms is just not true. You are very likely to take a significant pay cut some time around your 5th or 6th year, when I left biglaw in my 6th year, there were only 6 people left from my first year class. Today, less than 10 of the 70 first years ended up at an I'bank or as partner in a firm with a name you would recognize, NONE made partner at the firm we started in. The rest end in various other places that involve a pay cut of some sort.
65K is just a ridiculous starting salary. If the poster is indeed 43 years old then this is approximately what his starting salary was when HE was a first year associate.
quality of work: the work is not really all that interesting and intellectually stimulating, there are just really big dollar figures attached to the deals. The deals are really complicated and neat to start with but by the time you are doing your 5th similar deal at 10 p.m. on Sunday, its stops being so much fun.
profitablity of associates: don't fool yourself, you are utterly unprofitable during your first year; most of you will be profitable by your second year. Leverage is an indispensible part of biglaw's economic formula, you just don't get to 3 million dollars in profits per partner without leverage.
Anyone who thinks of professions (especially biglaw) in terms of nobility is even more of a prestige whore than first year assocaites tend to be. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:56 AM Author: High-end tattoo youre an idiot if you think this board has any effect on anything except the friday nights of a few uptight douchebag law students (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054354) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:07 AM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor What is your opinion of the poster 174? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054450) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:09 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I think people like he and pensive are going to get smacked in their first 6 months in a real law firm. After getting humbled, they'll probably be fine. I was somewhat cocky when I was 23, as well. I took a year off between college and law school, because I really needed to mature. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054468) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:10 AM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor Would firms ever knowingly hire assholes like them? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054472) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:14 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I don't know enough about them. If I were in a position that I could hire them and not have shit fall on me if they pissed anyone off, then I would. Pensive seems to have an analytical mind, and 174 is pretty knowledgeable. Both of them are pretty funny, too, so if they interviewed well I'd assume their offline social skills are better than their online personae. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054498) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:24 AM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor Wrong. Both of them are faggots. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054583) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:34 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I obviously don't know what they're like in person. Is there some sort of offline clique here? Do you all know each other? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054653) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:39 AM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor No I don't know them offline, they are just the board resident assholes and prestige whores. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054687) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:47 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action What's a prestige whore?
I agree that they come off as spoiled, rich assholes. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:48 AM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor A prestige whore is someone who bashes lower-ranked schools and firms and will sacrifice things solely for prestige. 174 bashes lifestyle firms all the time and says if you don't work for a Vault 10 in NYC you are a loser. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054751) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:54 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Is that pensive's gig too? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054797) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:00 AM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor Pensive bashes people based on social class and calls them "loser-fuckers." Pensive is a math grad student and doesn't care about law school. 174 is allegedly a 2l or 3l at a top law school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054857) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:04 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action So pensive's not a law student? Anyway, isn't there some kind of contradiction between being in academic grad school and being a classist?
"Loser-fuckers". That sounds like an insult a 2-year-old would invent. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:10 AM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor Pensive and 174 aren't famous for being consistent. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054911) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:14 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Wasn't there some theory that they were the same person, with about 20 different monikers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054949) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:19 AM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor Yeah. It's possible that they are. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054987) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:26 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action You should start a thread to let the board know about this. I hate when people do that on message boards. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055016) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:31 AM Author: Buck-toothed gaped base fortuitous meteor There are literally hundreds of threads about them already. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055051) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:35 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Right, but you should start a thread to let the board know that you suspect 174 and pensive to be the same person, so they can't try to play themselves off as two different people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055075) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:35 AM Author: crawly new version You do not know the meaning of ttt, but are versed in theories on the true identities of posters? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055073) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:37 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I had heard "third-tier toilet" before. I just never made the connection.
I wouldn't call myself "versed", but I've read sporadic threads and there were some where people were called pensive or 174 when, at least by name, they didn't seem to be. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 7:12 AM Author: maniacal odious office gaping absolutely ridiculous... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055659) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:13 AM Author: hyperactive multi-colored chapel genital piercing This reminds me of Internet Badass. Even after it was clear that it was a flame (3rd reply in this case), people would still keep feeding it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054495) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:14 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location What are the top three things you look for when interviewing a potential new associate? What are some of the wrong things to do that wouldn't necessarily seem obvious? How can someone really ace an interview? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054500) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:20 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action 1. We look for an analytical mind. That's different from being smart. A person needs to make it clear that he has the analytical sort of mindset law requires. Most law students don't.
2. We look for evidence of a work ethic. Too many kids these days skirt through law schools... especially Harvard and Yale. We look for someone who can stay late or put in extra effort to get a job done right.
3. Good judgment.
Wrong things: don't talk about money or class, even by indirect association. Don't try to show off your knowledge of sailing or your prestigious lineage. We're not that impressed. We just care about the work you will do for us.
Acing an interview: be who you are, but be your best self. Treat the interview with seriousness and respect as if you were meeting a prospective wife's parents. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:22 AM Author: hyperactive multi-colored chapel genital piercing "especially Harvard and Yale"
A very amateurish jab. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:31 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action The kids at my firm from those law schools have all been utterly worthless.
Stanford kids are good, though. They work hard and they know their place. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:49 AM Author: hyperactive multi-colored chapel genital piercing Your flaming is weak. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054759) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:23 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location How much of a disadvantage will a non-trad student (a little older but not a lot) have if they have good grades and a previous career in the same type of legal field that they are interviewing for now? Should they play down the non-trad and play up the previous career, or does it matter? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054573) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:29 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action "Non-trad" students have an advantage because they are more mature and, most importantly, have worked in real jobs before. However, we're not particularly ageist. We just care about the work you can do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054622) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:31 AM Author: vigorous quadroon location Ok. Thank you for your responses. That helps. I have my first interview soon. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054631) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:32 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Good luck! Let us know how it goes!
Hey, check back to this thread in about an hour. I'm working on something that should help young students understand law. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:40 AM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate You said earlier that your faith helped you overcome the difficult associate years. I'd like to hear more about this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054698) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:44 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I don't talk about my faith much, nor about my sexy, briliant wife (she's a writer) but I think that, in general, the 26-33 years are very trying. You go into them with unrealistic expectations, and they come upon you with crashing force. So, I think that religion helped me put everything in perspective and keep a level head. I needed to go into work every day with my best self, and that's not always easy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054721) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:48 AM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate What were your unrealistic expectations? Sounds like you made partner - not too shabby.
I always think going to a firm and hoping to make partner is, in itself, an unrealistic expectation these days, especially at a V10 in NYC.
I only ask about the faith thing because I am not married and probably won't be until i'm in my early 30s... but i'm pretty pissed at the church so i'm currently on my own as far as the self sorta stuff. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:57 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I thought that I was going to make major waves in politics and culture, be writing articles for The New Yorker every month, and have a dazzling life full of fun parties. That didn't happen. Instead, I have a wife and two kids. I read a few novels a year, go to a board games group, and take two trips for flyfishing per year. It's a good life, but I'm not famous and important the way I thought I was going to be. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054832) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:01 AM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate that's fair. I think I've given up on most of that already, except the occasionally dream that i'll be a Senator or a CEO. But I think that is more of a daydream than an expectaion.
unfortunately, most law school kids want to be partner, and given the statistics their chances are awful low. I think its a little distressing that you think so many kids show up and are lazy. I know a fair number who are not, but I'm not sure we are going to do any better as far as partnership is concerned. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:13 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action These kids, who seem hardworking and don't make partner, aren't. They got into Ivy League colleges and top law schools by making it look like they were doing something important, that they were smart and on top of shit. They really have nothing to them whatsoever, and when they have to get set to real work, that actually affects the world, they can't do it.
No one who works hard gets shut out of partnership; the system is entirely fair and meritocratic. People who can't handle meritocracy, because they come up on the short end in talent, are the ones who end up complaining about the supposed unfairness of the system. If you work hard, you will make partner. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:19 AM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate hmm... now I really think you are a partner.
well, I didn't go to an ivy league college so perhaps this is an advantage. my theory on this, though, is to go into it and work hard - if i make partner, great, but given that is at least 10 years down the road its stupid of me to worry about it now. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:51 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap This is the first thing you've posted that's not bullshit. Ages 26-33 are very trying, and you need a core belief to help you put up with the daily bullshit and disappointments. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054774) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:53 AM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate yes, but does it have to be the freakin church with all the gay - hating, don't use birth control nonsense? I'm sick of it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054795) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:55 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action No, it doesn't have to be. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054805) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:56 AM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate my difficulty lately has been trying to find something other than work... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054824) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:07 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action You should try just deciding to enjoy work. There's a saying about a lie that makes itself true.
School conditions us to think of work as unpleasant, but when you get into the real world, it's the only thing there is. Relationships are work. Art is work. Even religion is work. Everything is work; it takes a lot of effort to do anything useful. So if you don't enjoy work, you're fucked for life. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:09 AM Author: Mahogany wonderful gas station very goodly said, NIGGER. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054905) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:41 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate Partners are rarely impressed by such language. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055103) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:44 AM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate such posts are the price of doing business with an uncensored message board. To be honest, I think it is worth the price. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055122) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:46 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate Parters always exercise their rights prudently. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055132) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:47 AM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate true, I doubt that poster is expecting to become a partner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055137) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:50 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate We concur.
He who does not expect to become partner can never put in the work to become a partner. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 3:00 AM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate be quiet, imposter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055208) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 3:04 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate Ethics is one of the 5 great pillars of the legal profession. I stongly advise you to cease your actions. Partners deplore actions such as yours.
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Date: February 11th, 2006 3:37 AM Author: saffron fiercely-loyal wagecucks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055357) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:10 AM Author: lascivious cocky doctorate I basically agree with this. I just need to find a liberal priest (and, later, a moderate girlfriend). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5054919) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:21 AM Author: Laughsome citrine factory reset button Thanks for dropping by to talk with us. I recently saw a graph indicating a sharp recent drop in respect for lawyers in the United States relative to other professions.
The graphic is here http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/8881/lawrespect2004a2so.jpg
What do you think that portends for the future of the profession? |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:23 AM Author: Fantasy-prone death wish i wouldnt click on that link. looks suspect to me. fair warning. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055004) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:29 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea New York Times mirrors are liberal, but "legit" in some sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055040) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:31 AM Author: Fantasy-prone death wish so what was it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055052) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:33 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea A graph of perceived prestige and status over time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055063) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:34 AM Author: Fantasy-prone death wish ah, just as i suspected. no one wants to see such filth. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055069) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:40 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate You would do well to inform your partners of that so they might take action. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055096) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:26 AM Author: Cyan Den the problem is that the resolution of the graph toward the end isn't high enough for us to determine causation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055018) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:28 AM Author: Carnelian marketing idea Is that the one from the New York Times a couple months back? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055029) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:29 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I think you would do yourself a favor by showing that to partners at your firm, in person. They would appreciate your concern regarding the issue. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055038) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:31 AM Author: Laughsome citrine factory reset button What's your take on it? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055053) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:38 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action I'm honestly not a fan, sad to say. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055090) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:42 AM Author: bonkers love of her life I've held real jobs. Fuck you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055108) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:44 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate Partners will be impressed by your industriousness. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055124) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:45 AM Author: bonkers love of her life So if we can avoid appearing as spoiled children, we will get respect in return? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055127) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:54 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate To my way of thinking, that is a necessary but not sufficient condition. We partners demand much of those who seek to become our esteemed peers in this noble calling. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055180) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:59 AM Author: exciting flatulent area jap of exploiting talented and hard-working youth for a few years before discarding them. This mirrors partners' pursuit of ever younger trophy wives. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:57 AM Author: swashbuckling embarrassed to the bone toaster Subject: Are you coked up? Seriously... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055190) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:58 AM Author: Exhilarant Affirmative Action Someone is impostoring me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055201) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 3:01 AM Author: swashbuckling embarrassed to the bone toaster "Someone is impostoring me. " the word is impersonating, troll |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 3:04 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate A well educated person, the sort of person we might eventually elevate to partner would never make a mistake like that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055225) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 3:05 AM Author: Fantasy-prone death wish actually, impostering is more fitting in this context. not that it's a word, but neither is TTT.
but wait a minute, impostering is an xoxo invention. how would he know it? ok, 99% this guy is faking it. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 3:02 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate Ethics is one of the 5 great pillars of the legal profession. I stongly advise you to cease your actions. Partners deplore actions such as yours. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055220) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 2:59 AM Author: Insecure Coiffed Senate Partners are always careful to control themselves regardless of whatever exigencies -- whether internal or external -- they face. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055205) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 3:38 AM Author: swashbuckling embarrassed to the bone toaster uhh, you wanna cyber? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055363) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 7:23 AM Author: irradiated friendly grandma house What a load of crap. I think every older generation in history has had members who said this kind of thing.
Partners complaining about associate greed should look in the mirror first. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 8:16 AM Author: Rusted Sweet Tailpipe Immigrant D- (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5055676) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 10:47 AM Author: Sapphire haunting partner useless brakes Pensive, go away. The flame is poor and appears to be a vehicle for name-dropping yourself. And your silly moniker PATRICK E S VINE or as anagrammed A PENSIVE TRICK isn't fooling anyone.
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:12 PM Author: angry pit Although I'm inclined to agree with you about the flame--it's heavy handed and not very funny--at the same time, it seems like a bit of flame that attracts 300+ posts in a couple of days is by definition successful, right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056097) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:34 PM Author: Sapphire haunting partner useless brakes I suppose. I wish I had been around last night to shoot this down before it got kicking. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056261) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:13 PM Author: saffron fiercely-loyal wagecucks TITCR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056104) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:20 PM Author: Galvanic anal athletic conference stag film nice pickup (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056143) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:43 PM Author: pale nursing home stain Law school in general is a huge waste of time. The OP mentioned that law school is so expensive because it opens a host of opportunities - I certainly haven't seen those opportunities nor have most of the people I go to school with. We are still waiting for those "opportunities" while taking worthless clerical jobs that pay perhaps less then we made then when we went to law school. Law school only pays off for the top 14 schools and the top ten percent of the other schools. For those of us gullible enough to go to other schools, law school is nothing less then a tremendous disater. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056316) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:55 PM Author: Hairless adventurous headpube public bath this is why we need pensive: he's one of the few posters sophisticated enough to use an anagram (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056414) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:17 PM Author: Comical orange sandwich Yeah, I only fooled you fuckers for 340+ posts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056582) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:20 PM Author: titillating mexican market Do you actually share the sentiments that your fictitious moniker shares or was that portion of it a flame as well? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056597) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 1:48 PM Author: Comical orange sandwich It was all flame.
The posters who attacked PES Vine were right to do so. The generations above-- Baby Boomers are the worst-- have sold this country out by turning the professions into pyramid schemes. This isn't just a problem with law, but banking, consulting, and academia. Under the guise of meritocracy, they use an almost Prussian "toughness" philosophy to sell declining conditions (longer hours, shittier prospects) to the rising generation. Of course, no one's "allowed" to complain about this in public, lest they be depicted as weak for not being able to hack the tougher system.
A few people-- rich, old, selfish fuckers-- are making out like bandits under this system, as are a few "stars" among the younger generation... these "stars" are not chosen by merit (except possibly in academia... and I say this without interest because I'm not an academic star) but manufactured in order to create an illusion of upward mobility. It's a pretty disgusting system, but it's not going away unless those who can do so take this country back by force. Even with economic expansion, the past couple decades have been a period of depressing sociological contraction: fewer good job positions, rising healthcare costs, housing inflation. A small unscrupulous set of people are getting really rich off this. (Honestly, given than something like 20% of college grads end up unemployed, and another 20-30% underemployed, and a lot without health insurance, this situation is very close to deserving forceful-- even violent if necessary-- opposition.)
I do agree with P.E.S. Vine that $125k is nothing to complain about. The conditions I-bank analysts and firm lawyers face are pretty shitty, but the money is not something that deserves complaint. And yes, I do think that people who complain about the money-- rather than other things that deserve complaint-- in biglaw are pretty spoiled. I also think most people on this board tend to lack perspective, because the "pyramid scheme" phenomenon isn't limited only to biglaw; the whole society has become that way. |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 4:31 PM Author: charcoal idiot This was a fairly insightful post. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5058574) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 4:36 PM Author: Judgmental school associate please don't tell me you're proud of having attended UT-Austin (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5058609) |
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Date: February 14th, 2006 3:30 AM Author: Comical orange sandwich I've never been anywhere near Texas. P.E.S.Vine, a fictional flame character, was an alum of UT-Austin because that's where Leiter teaches. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5082763) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 5:18 PM Author: titillating mexican market Hello Pensive,
It was indeed a good flame. I must say that I concur with the fictitious moniker’s sentiments that there is a sense of entitlement among many younger people and that many of the people on the board have never worked real jobs and hence have no basis for comparison when they deride the number of hours that people are supposed to work in Biglaw.
However, you are absolutely correct when you say that the way this country is presently run amounts to nothing more than a gigantic pyramid scheme. We see this in the general decline of the middle class during the past couple of decades. Forty years ago a person could afford to support a spouse and children on a working class income. Today, we often need to breadwinners simply to make ends meet. Sure, we have bigger houses and many more technological gadgets such as cell phones, cable Internet, and satellite television that we did not a generation ago. Nevertheless, the decline of the middle class is obvious to the canniest of observers.
We find a situation where the wealthy are becoming wealthier and the middle class is vanishing. At the same time, the ranks of the poor are increased by those that have been displaced from the middle class and the hordes of immigrants that are lowering our standard of living with their cheap labor and permanently scaring the country. Of course, I do not fault the immigrants from coming here (I want all of them kicked out), though I do fault the international oligarch of criminals that run multinational companies for their presence here. These people want to transform the world into something along the lines of a giant international plantation in which the people of the world are enslaved to a handful of grossly wealthy individuals.
There is much more to this phenomenon than I have outlined in this post, so my explanation is somewhat incomplete. Nevertheless, it is up to the aspiring leaders of this new generation to destroy the present corrupt order and replace it with something better. Otherwise are lives will have little meaning as we do nothing but try to amass as many things while we leave the next generation with a world that is far worse than the one we inherited.
By the way, I was recently accused of being you. I am not sure how people arrive at such notions. I suppose it is simply because you use numerous monikers in order to convey certain points.
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Date: February 11th, 2006 5:20 PM Author: irradiated friendly grandma house 1fucking80 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5058940) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 12:50 PM Author: titillating mexican market I do not know if this is flame or not. However, I think there is much truth in what this fellow is saying. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5056375) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 5:26 PM Author: Olive whorehouse Nope, not at all. Especially the ridiculous nostalgia bullshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5058988) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 5:28 PM Author: Olive whorehouse Fuck you white man, your privileged ass has everything handed to you. I can't even believe how easy you people had it. It makes me sick. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5058998) |
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Date: February 14th, 2006 11:52 AM Author: ocher tank brunch "my faith"...
I knew i smelt a christian. always trying to shame everyone into bending to your will while you take the money they earn for you to the bank. |
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Date: April 28th, 2006 3:16 PM Author: Azure Aphrodisiac Fat Ankles I don't know or care who Patrick Vine is...but I do agree with what he is saying regardless of who he is. My personal experience w/friends who are lawyers conforms with Patrick Vine's words.
I agree we are rapaciously greedy, the loans just make us more so. Even without HUGE loans and debts most of us lawyers and law students especially the ones who attend the top LS would still bitch about how crappy 100K salaries are. All we talk about is money...we try to get into the best law school possible because it increases our chances of getting 125K starting. I "feel" lawyers are the greediest of the bunch. |
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Date: April 28th, 2006 3:17 PM Author: greedy double fault 125K is garbage. get with the times, what self-respecting T14 grad would accept such a TTT starting salary? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5673545) |
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Date: April 28th, 2006 3:44 PM Author: Azure Aphrodisiac Fat Ankles "125K is garbage."
125K in 2006 dollars puts us above 95percentile in earning in the USA, so that's not garbage.
"get with the times" Currently i work in teh engineering field and make around 60K. So becoming a lawyer coming out of a top 10 is a sweet deal.
"what self-respecting T14 grad would accept such a TTT starting salary?"
This statement makes no sense. If you come out of a top 10 or 15 law school, and forego the opportunity to make 125K but isntead make 45K and work represent poor people...that's pretty honorable in my eyes. If you have debt and still take a 45K work that's saintly.
Are you just being sarcastic? |
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Date: April 28th, 2006 3:50 PM Author: avocado mad-dog skullcap abode 125 barely gets you a closet in nyc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5673811) |
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Date: April 28th, 2006 4:07 PM Author: Azure Aphrodisiac Fat Ankles I do know CAlifornia and Texas...and coming out of a top 10-15 law school i can probably get a job paying 100K or more in CA or Texas and i know there 100K will give me a comfortable living once debts (if there is any) are paid off. 10 years down the line being a lawyer from a top 10-15 law school will beat being an engineer (in terms of making cash). I have nothing to complain about. The reason why I agree with Patrick is because of my observations of my friends who go to the top law schools (top 10) and myself. I know I am greedy and patrick does hit the note. I'm a smart guy who wants to make lots of money. I have no care for others. But I feel bad about what I've become. Guys like Patrick regardless if he's a real or phony makes you think about yourself and your goals and how I've grown different from what I used to be in elementary school or junior high. Priority <--> $.
I still want to make money, but I think what I have to really consider is, when the day comes and I'm semi-wealthy, will I continue to try hard to rake in cash...or will I devote a substantial amount of my energies to pro bono and helping the poor. I doubt most top 10-15 LS lawyers will do that..heck even the top 100 LS lawyers if they could, would prefer making more $ then helping out others, even when $ becomes irrelevant to their survival becuz they have so much of it. What will be the choice then? If I already start out complainig about making 125K, knowing fully well my top law degree and hard work will pay off, what will become of me once I everything is paid off..I'll still be complainig about my 250K a year job...these habits of greed we develop don't go away because we make more money and $ becomes irrelevant. At least part of what Patrick is trying to do is to get us to understand if we are to become noble lawyers we have to start out on teh right path...and complaining about 125K is not starting out on teh right path.
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Date: April 28th, 2006 5:25 PM Author: greedy double fault "Are you just being sarcastic?"
Yes, douchebag.
And maybe talking *a little* shit in the process. But the comment was intended to be made tougue-in-cheek.
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Date: April 28th, 2006 6:12 PM Author: Azure Aphrodisiac Fat Ankles You're mama is a douchebag. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5674983) |
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Date: April 28th, 2006 6:33 PM Author: greedy double fault "You're mama is a douchebag."
But she has mastered the English language. |
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Date: April 28th, 2006 7:27 PM Author: Azure Aphrodisiac Fat Ankles No your mom hasn't mastered the English language. As a matter of fact she hasn't even mastered birth control..hence your existence. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5675474) |
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Date: April 28th, 2006 3:18 PM Author: Scarlet kitchen reading party I'd hoped for "wf/am." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5673548) |
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Date: April 28th, 2006 6:25 PM Author: frozen spectacular plaza persian This was actually a good flame idea, but it's sad that it wasn't a better-executed. Whoever did it gets props for the concept, but getting into the whole 174/pensive/moniker debate was a really silly error and he should have done more research. This would have been a better thread coming from an elderly partner. The young ones these days were greedy associates raised on the same model we were. "I-bankers" was a bad move too. I don't think I've heard a lawyer call them that - it's always just bankers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5675059) |
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Date: May 8th, 2006 7:53 PM Author: Azure Aphrodisiac Fat Ankles Let's continue this most flaming of all posts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#5744501) |
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Date: February 15th, 2008 1:15 PM Author: Razzmatazz church boistinker ha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#9330515) |
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Date: April 21st, 2008 7:33 PM Author: Big theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=357576&forum_id=2#9661479) |