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Is the Pensive H UG thread worth reading?
Poast new message in this thread
Date: June 25th, 2006 3:14 AM Author: Electric station really tough guy 250 posts is a lot of posts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6065772) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:34 AM Author: zombie-like depressive Awful thread. It should die. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6066528) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:40 AM Author: Orchid messiness it's the usual:
sour grapes over harvard.
a lot of "i could've and would've" over things he didn't actually do and in many cases actually failed at.
claims that various national fellowships aren't selective (despite the fact that he was unable to win any), but "card game invention" is a credential whose prestige is beyond question.
a plethora of obvious alternate monikers.
my favorite part is where he claims "having invented a card game" puts him in the top 0.01% of the population for prestige, brains, whatever. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:05 AM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon "sour grapes over harvard."
Wrong. You don't even know that the cliche "sour grapes" describes.
"a lot of 'i could've and would've' over things he didn't actually do and in many cases actually failed at."
This is an enormous misrepresentation.
"claims that various national fellowships aren't selective (despite the fact that he was unable to win any)"
I did not fucking say this at all. I said that the Rhodes scholarship is probably a bit less difficult to get than T10 admission in math, physics, CS. Of-fucking-course the Rhodes is selective; I'm just saying that admissions exist that are more selective.
"a plethora of obvious alternate monikers."
I looked up "plethora" in the Idiot Thesaurus and found "zero" listed as a synonym.
"my favorite part is where he claims 'having invented a card game' puts him in the top 0.01% of the population for prestige, brains, whatever."
Prestige? Debateable. Brains? Nah, one wouldn't need a 168 IQ (99.99th on the LN scale) to come up with Ambition. My IQ is less than that. It does put me in the top 0.01% of 23-year-olds for cultural/intellectual prominence. I have a little bit; most at our age have none. "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king." |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:09 AM Author: Magical place of business home what were the "top 5" LACs mentioned in that thread, btw?
edit: i googled for the USNWR rankings. nevermind, it's all clear to me now. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:12 AM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Usually, the top 5 LACs are taken to be Amherst, Swarthmore, Williams, Carleton, and Pomona... of course, there are other really good ones that could also be placed in the top 5. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6066599) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:13 AM Author: Magical place of business home i don't know... wellesley being in the #4 spot is pretty damning. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6066606) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:18 AM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Wellesley is quite good. Also, Haverford, Bowdoin, Claremont McK, Middlebury are all very good. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6066632) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:22 AM Author: Magical place of business home hahaha, wellesley is a TTT.
their average SAT-I score is below 1400, for one thing. besides, i thought you'd take issue with its um, unacademic atmosphere. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:31 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area Whats a Carleton? I've never heard this word mentioned in the halls of prestige. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067128) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:33 PM Author: Hideous Useless Brakes Half-breed Subject: idiot Carleton was the rich guy's son on the Fresh Prince of Bel Air. He wore that prestigious school blazer all the time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067137) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:37 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area Ah thats right - he was a big tom jones fan as i recall. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067161) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:39 AM Author: Orchid messiness "the Rhodes scholarship is probably a bit less difficult to get than T10 admission in math, physics, CS"
uh-huh. rhodes is easy, harvard's easy... (things you aren't able to do) what's not easy? oh yeah: getting into uwisconsin for math grad school and making up card games. (things you are able to do.) it's all becoming very clear.
"[those with Narcissistic Personality Disorder]... want to be told that everything they do is better than what others can do. Sincerity is not an issue here; all that matter are frequency and volume."
http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html
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Date: June 25th, 2006 12:58 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon I did not fucking say that the Rhodes scholarship is easy to get. It's clearly not. You're a fucking idiot.
Harvard undergrad is pretty easy: for example, packageres like Kat Cohen have 80% success rates even with mediocre students. Also, it's incorrect to say that it's something I'm "[not] able to do", when it's something I was able to do and declined to do. Also, if you give me a freshman in HS sufficiently smart to get 1500 post-prep, I will get him into one of HYP, guaranteed. This is because college admissions are *not* hard to game. I am willing to wager $500 on this claim.
Merely inventing a card game is not difficult; however, designing a good one takes months (if not years) of playtesting and a keen aesthetic sense. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:23 PM Author: Orchid messiness it's not that hard to get into a "top 10" grad program. don't be ridiculous.
in fact, the ability to get into a better grad program than that (one of the "very most selective" in one's field, regardless of what that field is) is a necessary but not sufficient condition for winning something like the rhodes or marshall.
this is pretty well known to virtually the whole academic world other than yourself.
i'll just let you keep babbling on about your precious made-up card game; give an idiot enough rope and he'll hang himself. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:27 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon "it's not that hard to get into a 'top 10' grad program."
You have no fucking clue what you're talking about. This may be true with some goofy made-up disciplines, but for math, comp-sci, and physics, it is. You have to start preparing for it in your sophomore year. Please get a fucking clue before you open your mouth.
"the ability to get into a better grad program than that (one of the 'very most selective' in one's field, regardless of what that field is) is a necessary but not sufficient condition for winning something like the rhodes or marshall."
On the authority of what, one PDF on the Internet?
"this is pretty well known to virtually the whole academic world other than yourself."
And by "whole academic world" shall I assume you mean some idiot posting on the Internet on a Sunday afternoon?
"give an idiot enough rope and he'll hang himself."
I'll buy you a rope; I wouldn't mind if you tried this experiment. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 5:21 PM Author: Orchid messiness "On the authority of what, one PDF on the Internet?"
a pdf that happens to be from the people that give the scholarship, talking about what it takes to have a realistic shot at the scholarship?
yeah, i'd say i'd believe that over the random internet ramblings of a completely unaffiliated confirmed narcissist. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 5:24 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon I'm a "confirmed narcissist"? Have you stepped your proctological crusade up a notch?
The people writing the PDF clearly had no fucking clue how competitive graduate admissions are in some subjects. I can't blame them; most people are not experts on graduate admissions and can't be faulted for this. |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 9:05 AM Author: Light incel You clearly have no fucking clue how competitive the fucking Rhodes Scholarship is. I can't blame you; most people are not experts on the Rhodes Scholarship and can't be faulted for this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6073241) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:43 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Hi Kaavya. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6087910) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:33 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area Instead of inventing a shitty card game why didn't you invent something marketable like a computer program or a trading strategy?
I suppose its because you decline to do so - that kind of stuff is easy though right? |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:41 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Those are not easy to do at all, actually. (Trading, for what it's worth, is quite difficult: read up on EMH if you don't believe that it's quite tough.) To answer your questions, I'm not a great coder. I probably could be if I wanted to be, but software programming doesn't intrigue me at the professional level, though I love learning new programming languages and figuring out how to do stuff, but spending 10 hours per day in millions of lines of code doesn't appeal to me. Professional software development is quite different from an undergraduate AI assignment.
I came up with a card game and wanted to publish it. You call it "shitty", but you've never played it and therefore have no basis for this other than your envious dislike of me. I guarantee that it's better than anything you could do. Now, did I come up with this game to make money? Obviously not, since there's no money in building card games that live, effectively, in the public domain. I wrote the card game purely for the prestige, and already have more from it than you ever will from anything. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:49 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area "I guarantee that it's better than anything you could do."
Thats quite a guarantee having never met me.
"You call it "shitty", but you've never played it and therefore have no basis for this other than your envious dislike of me."
Envious dislike is also quite a conclusion since I'm neither envious of you nor do I particularly dislike you. You're simply an easy target to mock. I tend to be envious of professional ball players and playboy sons of the rich - are you one of these things? |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:54 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon "Thats quite a guarantee having never met me."
Well then? Come up with a great card game. I'll play-test it, and if I honestly believe it to be excellent I'll say so. I'll even start playing it with my friends, and I'll have gained some respect for you.
"I tend to be envious of professional ball players and playboy sons of the rich - are you one of these things?"
I'm the intellectual/cultural equivalent of the pro athlete. Of course, they peak in their 20s and we peak in our 50s so I can understand that you might prefer to be one of them right now. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 2:04 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area "I wrote the card game purely for the prestige, and already have more from it than you ever will from anything. "
I love this - if you equate the creation of card games with some kind of uber-prestige then you in the minority. I suppose it is prestigious in some circles; kindof like posesssing some magical virtual object is prestigious to hardcore players of online RPGs-but for most it is completely unrecognized as having anything to do with prestige. The unwashed masses don't find it prestigious but I suppose that hardly matters. Professionals, scientists, and business people certainly don't find it prestigious. I'm not sure about mathematicians.
Perhaps I'm not as prestigious as you (in your own mind) but I guarantee I'm more impressive to those who matter. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 2:36 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon "I love this - if you equate the creation of card games with some kind of uber-prestige then you in the minority."
Have you ever heard of H. Vanderbilt? You see, novel games typically come from Old Money (e.g. Bridge) or from solid math minds (e.g. Magic).
"I guarantee I'm more impressive to those who matter."
I'd love to hear your white-trash definition of "those who matter". Sure, your "remarkable improvement" makes you impressive to POs and prison guards, but so far I have never been to prison; therefore, my definition of "those who matter" is different from yours. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 2:48 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area I'd love to hear your white-trash definition of "those who matter".
CEOs? Professionals? (We'd probably be about par in academics)
PS: Implication that I've been to prison = weak. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 2:51 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon How the fuck would you be more "impressive" to a CEO? You're absolutely delusional.
One of the most important traits of a CEO is the ability to find good, smart people. A solid CEO would recognize me as such, and immediately diagnose you as second-string... unless you've done something amazing I don't know about, but I suspect that I've accurately estimated you. Nothing you have written makes the case for anything other than mediocre intellect, whereas my writing, speech, and knowledge readily identify me as having a bit more. You lose. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:00 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area "Nothing you have written makes the case for anything other than mediocre intellect, whereas my writing, speech, and knowledge readily identify me as having a bit more. You lose."
Your ability to infer facts based on style of XOXO postings makes one question your reasoning ability. Jumping to broad conclusions based on limited evidence is not indicative of a very thorough mind. (Though it can be an effective flame technique)
While you're responding to posts: are you aiming for the legal profession or have you ever attended law school? |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:15 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon I have no intention of entering law school or law, and have never attended law school.
It's quite possible that you're a better legal writer than I am, but outside of law, "the people who matter" don't care. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:18 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area That really wasn't my point.
The question is: why do you choose to post so much on a law school board? Why not a medical msg board or some card game message board? Or do you just post all over the place? |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:19 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Then what was your point? You seem not to have made one, but I'm curious about what it might have been.
I have a lot of troll schticks, most of which have never been caught, on a number of message boards. However, most of my schticks have been neglected of late as I have moved on to bigger and better (non-trolling) things. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:27 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area It was an actual question - I was not trying to make any point about comparing legal writing.
I am pursuing law. I come here for information and laughs related to the field...I find it difficult to comprehend your motivations.
Its a bit insane. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:30 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Well, if we compare writing it had better be legal writing for your sake; otherwise, you'll go down hard.
I post here because I pwn this board. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:32 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area "I post here because I pwn this board."
I see....well good luck with that and your card games. Time for me to get back to work - you've made me feel a little better about my life. thanks. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:35 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon You wish you could pwn this board just as much and as often as I do, but that will never happen. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067867) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:04 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area "One of the most important traits of a CEO is the ability to find good, smart people. A solid CEO would recognize me as such, and immediately diagnose you as second-string... "
You don't have any business experience do you? |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:16 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Not much, but I learn quickly...
I shouldn't say "one of the most"; I guess I don't know enough to say that. However, the ability to hire good people (and not to hire bad) at very high levels is indispensible for CEOs; surely you don't dispute this. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 2:07 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area "I'm the intellectual/cultural equivalent of the pro athlete."
Again is we're limiting it to the intellectual realm I reserve my envy for scientists making important discoveries, brilliant authors, or whiz kids with groundbreaking business plans and inventions.
Are you one of these things? |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 2:34 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon You have a constricted view of culture, having just given a small subset. Clearly you know nothing of the diversity in cultural and intellectual fields; I suppose I cannot hold this against you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067450) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 2:37 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area I admit that I am not aware of the subset of any culture which recognizes you as prestigious.
Given a small enough subset however - everyone can be prestigious...and that sort of misses the whole point of prestige doesn't it? Kind of like saying my mom thinks I'm an objective 8.
HTH. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 2:40 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon There's an activity known as "writing" which is undertaken, often, by people who have high regard for literary talent. There's also a field known as "game design"; you may have heard of it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067496) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 2:43 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area You should submit your work here: http://www.losers.org/hobbyists.html (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067525) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 2:53 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon I leave losing to people like you; this gives the more fortunate among us more to win. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067604) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:03 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area Date: June 25th, 2006 2:53 PM Author: prestigium-317 (pensive)
I leave losing to people like you; this gives the more fortunate among us more to win.
(http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=#)
Does this make sense? Maybe you'd care to edit it. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:54 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area I'll say this though: you are good flame and if thats your sole intention then you do a hell of a job.
If you're not flame though you should really pour some of that intimidating brain power into something worthwhile. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:55 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon I'm not flame. I'm light. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067250) |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 10:45 AM Author: Big space sound barrier That site is a fucking brilliant find.
Beautiful. It's like they read this board! |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:30 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area "It does put me in the top 0.01% of 23-year-olds for cultural/intellectual prominence."
If you say so - kind of like William Hung. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:50 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Hey: he has a place in this world. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067232) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 9:14 PM Author: Motley cocky theater stage Haha, I didn't know about the card game. Not that we needed any more evidence, but pensive = douchebag.
http://www.cardschat.com/showthread.php?t=52793
Mike Church Intermediate Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Northfield, MN Posts: 37
Ambition Card Game
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My name is Mike Church and in 2003 I invented the card game, Ambition. While Ambition's not totally obscure (the game is played independently of me and my personal associates, and has an estimated 2000 players worldwide, mostly in North America and Japan) this is probably the first time you have heard of Ambition.
Since fall 2003, I have been adapting the rules and modifying the game, researching and analyzing the game's emergent properties and strategies, and striving to write the best damn card game I can. My most recent changes will be posted on Usenet within a couple of days, and I'm hoping to circulate an updated PDF rules document by the end of January (once these damn grad school apps are done).
This is just an intro. post to get the ball rolling. Do any of you have any questions about Ambition, or any comments?
For those who don't know about it yet, Ambition is a trick-taking game with a lot of strategic depth. The goal isn't unambiguously to win (positive trick games like Bridge) or to lose (evasion games like Hearts)-- it's consistently to take moderate-to-strong totals while never taking the most (unless you can take a lot, or take none). Because of its unusual multiplicity of objectives and strategic biodiversity, it's a very deep game that invites very intricate analyses. Another plus is that hand-luck plays a surprisingly small role in round outcomes-- I believe much less than in any trick game popular today. Even contrivedly terrible hands, with skilled players, can be played to positive average outcomes.
To get started on the strategic aspects of Ambition, there's an essay on the Usenet (which I'll post on the Ambition blog when it goes up) from 4 months ago, 9/11/2004. It discusses how to read one's hand for strengths and weaknesses, which shines a bit of light onto the tricky aspects of passing strategy, optimal ruffing, etc.
The Ambition blog, at http://ambition-game.blogspot.com/ , will be going online shortly. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:25 PM Author: Cream garrison hm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070587) |
Date: June 25th, 2006 11:08 AM Author: zombie-like depressive There you go Doc. You've just had the "useful" content of the thread summed-up for you here.
Think you want to read the whole 250 posts? |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 2:13 PM Author: Electric station really tough guy I'm gonna go ahead and vote no. ty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067313) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 7:22 PM Author: zombie-like depressive np (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6069310) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:13 AM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Note for "can't edit me away!": Any posts in a related thread to one of my own, with "pensive" in the title, count to my credit. Therefore, for example, if the other thread tops out at 280, and this one hits 120, I've scored 400. Keep this in mind if you want to play. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6066605) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:15 AM Author: zombie-like depressive Wow! Hopefully there will be 500 posts of you looking like an idiot! Then you'll really win! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6066616) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:19 AM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Start by aiming low: if you can get 1 post that makes me look like an idiot, either by writing one that makes me look as such or goading me into writing a self-idiotizing post, you will become a fucking XO legend. So, good luck, but don't aim for 500 because it's just not going to happen. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6066635) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:22 AM Author: zombie-like depressive Way to read. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6066641) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:36 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area Use of "self-idiotizing"
I think he just got a point. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:02 PM Author: costumed brilliant fortuitous meteor not getting into harvard scarred pensive for life.
it's sad, really. he should've picked himself up and moved on YEARS ago. yet, he harbors these ridiculous feelings towards harvard many years after his rejection. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:18 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Nah, it hasn't "scarred me for life". It simply has not ceased to annoy me. Every year I learn of some worthless loser resume kid who got in (e.g. Blair Hornstine) and it pisses me off that s/he beat me at a contest-- granted a relatively meaningless one-- despite my 40+ pt IQ advantage.
I've considered taking my revenge out by finding some complete fucking illiterate, coaching him for the SATs and helping him build ECs, and getting him in. It would be fucking hilarious, and he'd blend right in with the H's languid, unoriginal clientele. (The super-smart lower-middle-class kids Harvard admits are not the college's clientele, but the postmodern analogue of the medieval court jesters; that is, very intelligent people brought in to high society in order to entertain their supposed superiors.) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:26 PM Author: Blue Pit Such revenge, even if "successful," would inevitably backfire as the low-IQ idiot you coach into Harvard will end up more successful than you, thus doubling your endless, simmering, borderline deranged envy of the supposed inferiors who got into Harvard while you did not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067112) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:37 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon "Such revenge, even if 'successful,' would inevitably backfire as the low-IQ idiot you coach into Harvard will end up more successful than you"
Have you fucking seen the salary profile of Harvard graduates? It's not bad, but it won't amaze you either. The median's around $40-45k/year; I'm making more than that (pro-rated) as an intern. Harvard doesn't turn losers into successes; its losers remain losers, its successes remain successes, and then Harvard takes the credit for the latter group (and hires the former to work in admissions and boost on XO all day).
In fact, both in terms of talent and success, math majors (with no specifications with respect to school) destroy Harvard undergrads. I'm pretty sure our salary profile is better at every point on the curve.
Harvard College is fucking amazing at one thing: marketing. That's non-trivial, and what Harvard has pulled off in terms of sculpting an image is incredibly hard to do; one has to give them credit for being awesome at it. They're approximately 4 times better than their peer schools at yield protection, image management, and "fishing" (that is, getting a ridiculous number of unqualified people to apply in order to improve their accept rate from 23% to sub-10). They even have a full-time shill (NYCFan) working the college division of this website. However, it doesn't add value in terms of successful graduates. H only matters for those who want a first job (analyst level) in IB, and the promotion rate from that position is dismal.
In conclusion, you're wrong. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:38 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area you make or have some hope of making six figures I assume?
Carleton grads post threads deriding Harvard. Harvard grads do not post threads mocking Carleton. This is how insecurity works.
HTH. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:48 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Probably less than 5% of Harvard grads make 6-figs in their first three years out of college. Most who do are in IB, and the majority of them won't last. (NYC is full of I-bankers who burn out and move into clerical type employment... no, I'm not fucking kidding because I know people who have done it.)
As for me, yes, I probably could get to that level reasonably quickly. IB and MC were clearly available to me and yet I went into grad school, and even now I'm confident that if I went into the working world I could get to $100k within three years.
"Carleton grads post threads deriding Harvard."
I wanted to get 200+, and succeeded.
"Harvard grads do not post threads mocking Carleton."
No, but there are several Harvard trolls (some grads, some not) mocking someone who went to Carleton and whose superior intellect makes them insecure. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:40 PM Author: vigorous hell god you're a douche (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067899) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:45 PM Author: magenta fanboi ape "IB and MC were clearly available to me and yet I went into grad school, and even now I'm confident that if I went into the working world I could get to $100k within three years."
Seeing as how you've never even had an IB or MC interview in your life, this is false. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:56 PM Author: vigorous hell NO WAI!!! 100k!!!?? Damn Pensive is ELITE! douche |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 5:28 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Uncertainty calls for conservative estimates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6068626) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 5:28 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Uhh... 3.88/4.0 in-major, which was math.
That implies IB and MC as options. One WILL get an interview from every fucking firm that is hiring, with those kinds of grades, and one WILL get a job unless completely unprepared for the interview. You fucking lose.
(In practice, it may have been a little bit difficult to get the top firms in senior year only because one usually needs an IB/MC internship during college. However, I would've had no trouble getting an internship if I had pursued that path instead of the academic-math track. Again, see the above on GPA.) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:57 PM Author: magenta fanboi ape "One WILL get an interview from every fucking firm that is hiring, with those kinds of grades, and one WILL get a job unless completely unprepared for the interview."
Sorry friend, you're right about getting interviews (for the most part, you won't get EVERY interview though) but not about nailing the interviews. Fact of the matter is, after the you get the interview, they stop caring about your GPA. You don't know, because you've never had an IB or MC interview. I have. So STFU.
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:01 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon "Sorry friend, you're right about getting interviews (for the most part, you won't get EVERY interview though) but not about nailing the interviews. Fact of the matter is, after the you get the interview, they stop caring about your GPA."
IB/MC interviews are all about preparation. The people who dinged on them are those who don't prepare at all, show up cold and hung over, then get pwned. Everyone on the board knows this. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:05 PM Author: magenta fanboi ape You really have no idea what you're talking about. You can't know, because you've never had an interview for one of these jobs.
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:11 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Yes, in fact I can know and I do. IB and MC interviews come down entirely to preparation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070906) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:13 PM Author: magenta fanboi ape But you admit that you've never had one.
Do you have any idea even what percentage of 1st round interviewees get invited to the 2nd round? |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:20 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon 100 minus the percentage of interviewees who fail to prepare for their first-round interviews. You might have a better idea of what percent blow off their interviews than I do.
You think of IB as a selective career. It's not shabby, but most people see IB as it was seen in the 1970s and '80s: a facile safety career for Old Money. So they don't take their interviews seriously and blow them off, getting surprised when they find out that it's actually somewhat competitive and that they actually need, to some degree, to know their stuff. These are the people who don't get jobs in IB. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:21 PM Author: magenta fanboi ape So, to sum up what you said, you don't have a clue about that either. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070994) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:37 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon The percentage is 100-X, where X is the proportion (expressed as percentage) of people who fail to prepare adequately for their interviews. I admit to my ignorance regarding the exact value of X. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6071165) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 5:52 PM Author: Orchid messiness "The narcissist... has an exaggerated sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)"
"The narcissist... has as a sense of entitlement"
from the diagnostic criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder, found at http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/howto.html |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:05 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Those passages are not relevant at all to anything under discussion in this thread. One note you should take from me: if your trolling becomes transparent, it loses effect. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6068959) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 9:45 PM Author: Orchid messiness "IB and MC were clearly available to me"
it's just a narcissistic fantasy if you never applied, never interviewed, and were never hired. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:20 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon I didn't apply because only an asshole would apply to jobs when intending to turn them down in favor of grad school. However, my GPA and major constitute proof that I would have been given an interview and, unless I completely bombed every interview by bringing my shit in a paper bag and throwing it at the hiring manager, hired... maybe not at every single firm, but at more than enough. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070560) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:27 PM Author: Orchid messiness so go and actually do that, get an offer, and then come back and talk. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070606) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:32 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon I said: "only an asshole would apply to jobs when intending to turn them down in favor of grad school".
I have no desire to work in IB or MC, at least not at this point in time. Therefore, it would be assholish for me to apply merely for the sake of posting about it on XOXO. Also, given my GPA and major, there is no need since my point is effectively proven. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 1:39 PM Author: Blue Pit Whatever the truth of your $$ claims, your obsessive -- and frankly hilarious -- bitterness at your Harvard rejection is beyond reasonable question. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067176) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 3:58 PM Author: Geriatric den rigpig No matter how much he rails against the fates, the OP will never be a Harvard Man, and it will chafe him the rest of his natural life. It really shouldn't though, as there is no shame in not being smart enough to gain admission. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6067995) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 5:23 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon First off, my IQ is 163 (LN scale) which is by 45+ points more than "smart enough to gain admission". Sorry you weren't born smart, but some of us were. Second, I wouldn't have been a "Harvard Man" since there was no way I would have gone; the remote thought of the possibility of ever having been one makes me cringe. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6068591) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 5:27 PM Author: sienna keepsake machete I saw a social misfit driving a car with a Carleton sticker on 394 the other day and thought of you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6068616) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 5:30 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon I'm sure that you can judge the entirety of a person's social behavior on account of one sticker on his car. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6068644) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 5:31 PM Author: sienna keepsake machete They looked like a social misfit. HTH. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6068655) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 5:56 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Yeah, okay. Maybe you should concentrate more on driving and less on looking into other car's windows. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6068885) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:15 PM Author: sienna keepsake machete I let the bus driver take care of that, but thanks for your deep concern. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6069015) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:43 PM Author: Geriatric den rigpig "First off, my IQ is 163 (LN scale)"
"the remote thought of ever having been one [a Harvard Man] makes me cringe."
Priceless. Keep them coming, Hardy. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 7:42 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Do you disagree with the log-normal scale for IQ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6069407) |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 11:14 PM Author: Geriatric den rigpig I doubt your score. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6079751) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 5:49 PM Author: costumed brilliant fortuitous meteor "It simply has not ceased to annoy me. Every year I learn of some worthless loser resume kid who got in (e.g. Blair Hornstine) and it pisses me off that s/he beat me at a contest-- granted a relatively meaningless one-- despite my 40+ pt IQ advantage."
Let's analyze this for a moment.
Your argument: It pisses me off that I lost to someone like Blair Hornstine at gaining admission to H, even though I had a 40+ points of IQ advantage.
The contrapositive: With a 40+ point advantage in IQ, I shouldn't lose to Blair Hornstine at gaining admission to Harvard.
The assumption: Admissions to Harvard is based on merit (i.e. IQ or some measure of intelligence).
Pensive, your assumption is flat out wrong. Admission to Harvard is NOT based on 'merit' or 'intelligence.' Thus, you shouldn't be annoyed (or feel cheated) at not being able to gain admission to the big H. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:04 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon This is a good point: the nonacademic component of H admissions is completely fucking worthless, therefore I shouldn't care about it, and really I don't care much.
I guess I'm mad because I almost never get outsmarted or let myself get misled. Yet, in high school, I bought into the bullshit idea that college admissions were about intellectual/personal merit and that the crypto-racist "leadership" garbage was extinct. I really believed in Harvard's marketing ploy... and when I found out I had been misled and that it was actually a yacht party for rich idiots, with a few middle-class geniuses as court jesters and some "leadership" losers to boost the rich kids' self-esteem, I was pissed. I was angry at myself I fell for clever advertising, that I was beaten, and that I bought into this "academic meritocracy" pile of garbage. Even after having no interest in Harvard itself, I found myself angry about how stupid I was to have been misled. No one likes to get beaten, to be made a mark. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:06 PM Author: high-end property skinny woman You're completely fucking insane, aren't you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6068970) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:08 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Why do you think that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6068983) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:16 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area http://pensive.ytmnsfw.com/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6069025) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:19 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon I think it's hilarious, but I had nothing to do with it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6069037) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:19 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area truth time: are you a virgin? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6069039) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:21 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Irrelevant.
Assume not: what does it prove?
Assume so: why does it matter? |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:23 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area Provides insight into your social skills, maturity level, and life experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6069055) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:28 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Not really. There are a lot of losers who have had sex, and pretty much anyone can get it. Similarly, I know some pretty cool people who are 18+ virgins. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6069069) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 6:33 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area I agree there are exceptions but they are just that; on average if a 20+ old male is a virgin its strong evidence of a lack of social skills, maturity, confidence, looks etc.
You can't interpret this to mean that all people who have had sex are winners - far from it. Just that a virgin has a much higher chance of generally being an immature loser than a non-virgin has. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 7:41 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon "on average if a 20+ old male is a virgin its strong evidence of a lack of social skills, maturity, confidence, looks etc."
Wrong. I'll give you that it's weak evidence of that, in that there's a correlation.
"Just that a virgin has a much higher chance of generally being an immature loser than a non-virgin has."
Higher? Yes. Much higher? Doubtful. The worst group are probably the guys who've had lots of sexual partners. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 8:32 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area ... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6069726) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 7:22 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area pwn3d (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6069308) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:21 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon How so? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070566) |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 11:29 AM Author: Racy personal credit line because you're a 20+ virgin. that's weak. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6073923) |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 11:36 AM Author: Big space sound barrier Wait, is that for real? That's him, and he claimed to be an "objective 8"?
This is just random abuse, right? |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 9:46 PM Author: Orchid messiness hahahahahahaha
180 |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:09 PM Author: costumed brilliant fortuitous meteor Made an error on the contrapositive, now that I think about it. Instead, it should be:
If I lost to someone like Blair Hornstine at gaining admission to Harvard, then I don't have a 40+ point advantage in IQ.
Or, at least, that's what I think it should be. Regardless of the poor logical structure, I still mean what I said (esp. about the false assumption).
On an unrelated note, jesus I wish I had taken more Philosophy courses (especially in Logic). Studying for the LSAT would've been so much easier. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:18 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon No, Blair Hornstine is an idiot resume kid and I am much smarter than all of her type. If you don't believe me on this and actually believe BH to be intelligent and me not, then wait 10 years and I'll inject your wife with my 163-IQ genetic material. When her kids come out too smart to be yours, you'll know who to blame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070543) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:25 PM Author: chrome mood gunner Blair's application was a hoax. During her last couple years of hs, she took most of her classes from home so it was much easier for her to do well. If her condition was so bad, how was she able to travel all around the world? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070588) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:29 PM Author: Orchid messiness enjoying the one-sided conversation? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070617) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:32 PM Author: chrome mood gunner Go solicit some posters for sex. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070637) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:48 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon 187 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070735) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:37 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon With your mom? Yes. I'd rather have it that she not say anything, on account of her halitosis. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070666) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:30 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon You can say that Blair was a "hoax", as hers was an extreme example, but she's a figurehead and a leader for those admitted to top schools on ECs/"leadership". There are thousands of kids like her who are just as unethical-- in fact, most "leadership" assholes are-- but don't piss off their entire school districts and therefore don't get caught.
Blair could've evaded detection, in fact, but she sued the school to make her singular valedictorian (even after she was admitted to Harvard). This action brought her national attention, hence the plagiarism was caught and she came down. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:34 PM Author: chrome mood gunner How are other students unethical like her? Being an officer of a club is cheating? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070646) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 10:42 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon No, clearly not. Sometimes people take on leadership positions out of passion for the organization and what it does; indeed, this is what leadership is supposed to be all about.
At my school, there were smart kids and there were resume kids. The smart kids generally only had a couple ECs that they would've done anyway, and that they put a lot of effort into. The resume kids would join a ridiculous number, put up 1 hour/week commitments, and then barter their way into leadership positions in clubs they didn't care much about. Unethical resume kids accounted for about 40% of leadership positions and 90% of those that colleges would care about; ergo, 90% of college-admissions "leadership" is worthless and nonindicative if not counter-ethical.
If someone happens to be an officer of a club, it doesn't mean that he or she is unethical. However, the ones who join ECs just to get into colleges almost always are found to have beefed up their applications and lied; this is said to be one of those things every guidance counselor finds. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:00 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area still babbling I see - good work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070825) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:03 PM Author: chrome mood gunner In many math competitions for example, the number of participants isn't limited. (With 7th/8th grade MathCounts Teams, you know there's only four people on a team with a couple alternates). There be be some members who participate in all of the competitions; other students could skip most competitions, but might still put down that they were a member of their school math team.
In a business club, anyone who paid a membership fee was automatically a member. Just because some students would put down that they were in the club, it doesn't mean they did anything.
Someone could be a bench warmer of a soccer team and never play. So the coach wouldn't really give a fuck if the player misses most practices. In contrast, someone else on a sports team works hard to practice and compete even if injured.
" However, the ones who join ECs just to get into colleges almost always are found to have beefed up their applications and lied; this is said to be one of those things every guidance counselor finds."
Do you mean students who start joining random clubs during their senior year? How do you know guidance counselors think this? If they do, they should notify the colleges of an appliant who tried to beef up their application. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:06 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon "Do you mean students who start joining random clubs during their senior year? How do you know guidance counselors think this?"
Essentially, anyone who joins clubs for the purpose of getting into college is an insincere fuck. This describes most HS overachievers. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:07 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area So whats up with you talking to yourself - is this prestigious too? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070871) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:17 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon I wouldn't do it if it weren't. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070966) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:10 PM Author: chrome mood gunner There are pathetic people who are desperate to resume pad for their med school application since these padders think ECs are looked at highly. I knew a girl who got a section editor position of her college newspaper and then quit at the end of that semester. She also had a position as an officer of a random club one year but did nothing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070887) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:12 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon I've often thought that med schools, employers, and even colleges should stop caring about ECs, not because they aren't important, but because by caring so much about them, they fucking ruin ECs. There was a time when people joined the drama club because they were interested in drama. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070920) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:14 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area Harvard not admitting you means the system works. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070933) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:21 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon Please continue stewing in envy; my superior intellgence pwns you, and this requires no effort on my part. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6070991) |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:33 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area Explain why I'm envious again? Its because you're a genius or something right? And I should believe you're a genius because u make card games and post all day on a board that has nothing to do with your profession (what is it you do again for a living?)
God bless Harvard for having standards and seeing through your application – that thing had Carleton stamped all over it. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:35 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon "And I should believe you're a genius because make card games and post all day on a board"
I don't post that much, and my purpose here is pwnership. I PWN this board; you don't, so you can't understand these things.
"God bless Harvard for having standards and seeing through your application – that thing had Carleton stamped all over it."
It was, in fact, pretty clear to Harvard that I wanted to get in for the sake of turning them down and going to a better school. So what you say is correct. |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:39 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle rigor area "I don't post that much, and my purpose here is pwnership. I PWN this board; you don't, so you can't understand these things."
You're correct I really don't understand these things because I'm a grownup. To me you sound immature and pathetic - I'd have to be a several years younger and maybe reclaim my virginity to really see the world through your eyes. PWN away my friend.
"It was, in fact, pretty clear to Harvard that I wanted to get in for the sake of turning them down and going to a better school. So what you say is correct. "
Harvard > Carleton according to the rest of the human race.
HTH - goodnight pensive! |
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Date: June 25th, 2006 11:48 PM Author: Fragrant jade quadroon "Harvard > Carleton according to the rest of the human race."
Those who understand colleges and the concept of quality education know that Harvard is the weakest of the T25. It's the only T25 where the professors actively hate teaching undergraduates. Thus, Carleton and the other 23 T25s that are not Harvard are better. |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 1:35 AM Author: magenta fanboi ape Date: June 25th, 2006 11:48 PM Author: prestigium-317 (pensive)
"Harvard > Carleton according to the rest of the human race."
Those who understand colleges and the concept of quality education know that Harvard is the weakest of the T25. It's the only T25 where the professors actively hate teaching undergraduates. Thus, Carleton and the other 23 T25s that are not Harvard are better.
"
Archived till the end of time. One of the worst posts in XOXO history. |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 9:04 AM Author: Light incel Repetition =/= Truth.
HTFH. |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 11:19 AM Author: magenta fanboi ape TITCR (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6073881) |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 11:10 AM Author: Big space sound barrier Here's the other thread in a nutshell.
Pensive says something like this:
"Harvard has horrific grade inflation"
Then someone who isn't Pensive offers some data. For example, I might say that in the last 23 years, Harvard has granted 37,950 undergraduate degrees. Of those, exactly two students (or one out of every 18,975) had perfect 4.0's. They were siblings.
http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=348373
Then I say something like, "Hey Pensive, I take it that Carleton, where the grade inflation is not horrific, graduates 4.0's at a lower rate than 1 out of every 18,975, right? Care to share some data?"
And then Pensive will either answer with personal attacks or scream about why anyone with common sense knows that the data don't matter. It's your turn, now, Pensive, go right ahead and demonstrate, and the OP won't have to read the other thread. |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 12:01 PM Author: Orchid messiness better not tell pensive that the older brother was also a marshall scholar, or we might be treated to his theory about how getting into a "top 10 math program" is harder than winning the rhodes or marshall scholarship. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6074104) |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 12:04 PM Author: costumed brilliant fortuitous meteor You have to admit, though, that the number of people graduating with perfect 4.0's is not an accurate measure of grade inflation.
We'd need to inspect the average GPA, the spread/curve, etc. It could be that Harvard makes it harder for kids to graduate with a 4.0 average, but has many kids graduating with 3.7's or 3.8's (which are still pretty high). |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 12:11 PM Author: Orchid messiness it would also be reasonable to point out that both of the 4.0 graduates are within the last 5 years.
however, grade inflation is just as bad or worse at carleton. pensive's standard explanation is that "carleton students work harder and are more intelligent than those harvard idiots so it's not really grade inflation," plus some rants on the morality of pass-fail grading. |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 8:02 PM Author: hateful wrinkle I'm not pensive, but I went to Carleton. Carleton does not have bad grade inflation. It's consistently listed as one of the ten hardest-working schools based on (admittedly) self-reported data. The Ivies are relatively average for workload: not softbatch, but not grueling either. I doubt it's as difficult to get through Carleton as MIT or Cooper Union.
Carleton has S/CR/NC (pass/fail) and liberal late-drop policies, which bring up the GPAs to an average significantly higher than the average grade given, which is around 3.0-3.1. So, given that Carleton has a tougher workload and that the average grade given is going to be lower than the average GPA, there really isn't as much grade inflation. |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 8:50 PM Author: Orchid messiness you are so pensive, in my opinion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6078434) |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 10:55 PM Author: Brindle Medicated Forum Crotch I'm going to argue with you on that point as a current Carleton student. The median GPA of the class of 2006 was right around a 3.4--pretty damn high for a school that claims to have little grade inflation, if you ask me. Hardly anyone has below a 3.0 when they graduate now, definitely less than 15%, though I can tell you from pulling way too many damn alum files for my job that more like 30-40% of graduates had GPA's below 3.0 about 20 years ago. Math/science majors have disgustingly high GPAs in general, too, when compared to math/science majors at other "academically intense" schools. The profs are great, classes are great and challenging while you're in them, but the final grades are all clustered at the high end of the scale. I don't really buy this average grade given out is a B thing...in my major and even in some intro classes I've taken, the median grade given out is probably more like a B+/A-. Maybe profs are getting easier, maybe kids are getting too damn smart, who knows, but all I can say is that I have a disgustingly high GPA that I'm not sure I deserve. If getting A's and A-'s is really that much easier at schools like Harvard...my god, I can't even imagine what I'd do with my time there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6079499) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:36 AM Author: Big space sound barrier >Carleton has S/CR/NC (pass/fail) and liberal late-drop policies
Are these unrelated to grade inflation and overall difficulty? You don't think that letting kids bail out of a course at the last minute when they see that they aren't acing it is softbatch?
Anyway, empirically, we're talking about hundredths of a point away from Harvard (as well as many other LACs like Williams):
http://gradeinflation.com/carleton.html |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 12:12 PM Author: Racy personal credit line the average H student applying to law school has a 3.44. This makes me think the avg. GPA college-wide is 3.4 or less. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=441663&forum_id=2#6074175) |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 12:18 PM Author: costumed brilliant fortuitous meteor http://gradeinflation.com/harvard.html
You're right. The average GPA seems to be around 3.4, give or take 0.01 or 0.02 points.
This also means that the average H student applying to law school isn't much better off than the average H student in general. |
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Date: June 26th, 2006 12:20 PM Author: Big space sound barrier >It could be that Harvard makes it harder for kids to graduate with a 4.0 average
But each grade comes from an individual teacher who doesn't know the student's other grades, and who has no incentive to control the number of 4.0's given by the college.
Unless the administration somehow puts external pressure on transcripts -- like by requiring every undergrad to take a class in which no A's are given -- then either it isn't that easy to get A's, or people should get all A's a lot more often than they do. |