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WAITERS - you're WAAAAY overpaid
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:42 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Think about this: You spend 2 minutes (max) taking my order. You then spend 1 minute (max) carrying it to the kitchen and explaining it. You bring me bread (1 minute), a couple of drinks (5 minutes), and my food (2 minutes).
All in all, for a decent meal, you're actually serving me for about 10-15 minutes.
If I drop $50 on food for a party of two, then tip you 15%, your tip is $7.50. For 1/6th to 1/4 of an hour. So basically, in addition to your minimum wage, I've just paid you anywhere from $30 to $40 per hour for your work.
(Note: I value your 'opinions' about the menu and drinks at zero, because you don't know me, you don't know my tastes, and you know less about food and wine that I do.)
If you're retarded, I'm the only table you're waiting on. In reality, you're waiting on three, maybe anywhere up to five or more tables. Each paying you the same rate.
Bottom line - for the work you *actually* do for me, you're earning a damn good wage.
So screw you. Seeing as you're posting on this law board, you'll soon realize that I, as a lawyer, get paid by the minute by clients. I don't whine and bitch that I have my BMW payment to make, so even though I only did 30 minutes of actual work for the client, they should pay me far more.
If you don't like being a waiter, then go get a different job. Nobody's forcing you to be a waiter. It's not like you don't know the situation before you even put on your silly uniform.
You tell me that if I don't like your tipping rules, then I should not eat out. Well, in reality, I'll keep eating out and tipping you what I like -- if you don't like *my* tipping rules, then perhaps you should not be a waiter?
Losers.
In reality, there should be a flat tip per table - say $5.00. That way, waiters get paid for the work they do. If I spend $5.00 on food, then they don't feel 'screwed' because they get a $0.75 tip. And I don't feel ripped off when I drop $250 and end up paying some monkey moron $37.50 for the same amount of work as if they brought me a salad. And this would encourage waiters to work more tables and be more efficient.
BRING ON THE FLAT TIP (with the understanding that the customer can reduce it if the service is crap.) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:44 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse Fight back; tip less.
I now only tip on the pre-tax amount, and much lower than 15% on any alcohol. I also round down to the next lowest full dollar. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:47 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Whenever I can get away with it, I tip zero. I put a big old fat line through the tip area of the check, pay for the food only, and then run.
(Note, I do this only at restaurants where I won't return. Idiot waitstaff think it's funny to hold grudges and violate food of customers they don't like, like it's their obligation or right to do so.) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:54 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing OMG, you're totally beating the system!!! Awesome!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086347) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:55 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse I zero tip for almost any mistake in service. I avoid lingering after the zero tip to avoid confrontation. (It has happened. I should have further reduced the tip.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086353) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:57 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing So basically, not only are you a cheapass, you're also a huge pussy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086365) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:59 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse Since waiters and waitresses are drawn from the lower classes they may get violent. I avoid violence whenever possible. I also don't spit on big people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086383) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:01 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: I think the confrontation reflects more on the mentality of waiters, rather than the mentality of the tipper.
How classless to chase someone down and request a reason for the lack of a GRATUITY. Are they so stupid that they don't realize it's because they screwed up? |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:04 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing I'm not saying waiter should be chasing down customers for tips. But I think if you're going to stiff the waiter, you should at least have the balls to not run out the back door after doing it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086423) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:13 PM Author: red stage you are still a pussy for passively avoiding confrontation, whether it is justified confrontation or not (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086497) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 6:48 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike that'll teach those bastards. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091758) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:49 PM Author: fishy deer antler I thought everyone tipped on the pretax. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086306) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:50 PM Author: Yellow doctorate i have been overtipping my entire life.
:-( |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:51 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse I didn't used to. I'm glad to know that this was the right move. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086317) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 12:04 AM Author: Vibrant mildly autistic chad I have always done this - tip on the pre-tax amount; and I always round it DOWN to the nearest dollar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089706) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:48 PM Author: Irate Principal's Office Becky And this has bothered you enough that you felt compelled to post all this on an anonymous message board?
You come off as cheap and classless. HTH. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:48 PM Author: Yellow doctorate hi, waiter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086298) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:49 PM Author: Learning Disabled Disturbing Black Woman Prole titcr. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086302) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:51 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Just bored. And tired of the constant "defense of poor waiters" lobby that springs up every time someone dares contemplate not subsidizing some idiot's community college education.
Sure it comes off cheap and classless. Maybe you think that leaving a large tip shows off your class and wealth. To most people, it shows off your stupidity for paying for something you never received.
The true classless and cheap people in this argument are those waiters who complain that they are not paid enough for their 'writing stuff (wrong) on a check' and 'carrying a plate of food' skills, which clearly take many, many years of education and experience to achieve. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:01 PM Author: fear-inspiring reading party factory reset button "your tip is $7.50. For 1/6th to 1/4 of an hour. So basically, in addition to your minimum wage, I've just paid you anywhere from $30 to $40 per hour for your work."
Except that you sit there for much more than 1/6 to 1/4 of an hour (would you prefer that the waiter rushes you out so that the next tipper could be seated?), they have to tip out, and jobs with tips have a minimum wage of around $2.20. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:02 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Re-read the post, moron Waiters have more than one table.
Perhaps when things are slow in the office, I should send one of my clients a bill for an 8 hour day, even though I actually worked on their file for 30 minutes? After all, the file was on my desk (and unattended) for 7.5 hours. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 12:06 AM Author: Vibrant mildly autistic chad I fully agree! Waiters make it seem like we are not paying anything to the restaurant for the 'privilege' of sitting there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089717) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:35 AM Author: fear-inspiring reading party factory reset button You must go to shitty restaraunts if the waiters are standing around. It's their job to maintain a presence during your meal in case you need something during the 80 minutes you're seated there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091817) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:10 PM Author: Lime nowag "and jobs with tips have a minimum wage of around $2.20."
That's a legislative issue, not a tipping issue. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:11 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse A minimum wage law is almost as bad of an idea as tipping. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086489) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:15 PM Author: Lime nowag If restaurants think they can retain waiters at $2.30/hr in a tipless system, let 'em try. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086510) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:16 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse I agree. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086517) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:18 PM Author: big immigrant I don't understand waiters. They whine about how they aren't getting paid enough, but then brag about how much money they made at the end of the night. They then blow it on something like a bar tap, which is why I don't tip.
"But :D, you can't not pay them because you disagree with how they spend the money." Yea I can, faggot. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 6:51 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike correct. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091761) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 4:05 AM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage Bigtard:PartII = boredhub.
Are you having fun, 'tard? |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:22 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike you're wrong. not the first time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6111260) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:36 AM Author: fear-inspiring reading party factory reset button In my post it was neither -- it's an issue with the OP's improper calculation of wages. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091818) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:52 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "Except that you sit there for much more than 1/6 to 1/4 of an hour (would you prefer that the waiter rushes you out so that the next tipper could be seated?)"
Are you suggesting we should pay waiters rent, also? They are not serving me by "allowing" me to sit at the owner's restaurant. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 6:49 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike their minimum wage isn't my problem. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091760) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:38 AM Author: fear-inspiring reading party factory reset button How is this relevant? Do you care to dispute that the OP's math was off or not? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091822) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 10:28 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike i'm saying i don't care whether his math is off because i don't care about the server's minimum wage. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6098168) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:06 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse I like this flat tip idea. $1 per diner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086444) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:18 PM Author: racy university That's just dumb. A better idea would be to fold the market value of a waiter's labor into the meal and simply exclude the practice of tipping altogether. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089289) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:16 AM Author: cream zippy idiot faggot firefighter visit germany. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6090868) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 5:30 AM Author: racy university Germany has an incredibly rigid labor market. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091705) |
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Date: July 20th, 2006 5:34 PM Author: Vermilion Aromatic Gaming Laptop People Who Are Hurt yeah okay and ...?
in germany, traditionally the waiters compensation is included in the cost of the meal. you DO, however, tip. this is typically just rounding up to the nearest Euro or so.
When the waiter (der Diener) returns and offers change, you tell him its okay (stimmt shoene).
a much better system. my buddy will come home with maybe 25 for a nights work or maybe $500. which, of course, he blows on alcohol immediately. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:12 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike down with tipping! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091789) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:49 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "You tell me that if I don't like your tipping rules, then I should not eat out. Well, in reality, I'll keep eating out and tipping you what I like -- if you don't like *my* tipping rules, then perhaps you should not be a waiter?"
I concur |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:13 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike i concur with your concurrence. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091790) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:59 PM Author: Painfully honest telephone A better idea might just be a mandatory cover charge (assessed per dish or per person) added onto the bill, or the percentage added automatically on top of the final total. Most places in Italy already do this. In that sort of scheme, a customer might have the option of haggling / arguing with the manager to get the charges reduced for lousy service. He could alternatively leave some extra money if he felt that the waiter deserved it for stellar job.
Sure beats scrambling like a beggar for whatever loose change people decide to throw at you. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:18 PM Author: racy university (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089279) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 10:45 PM Author: sexy field roast beef Do people here tip movers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6115591) |
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Date: February 7th, 2007 5:15 PM Author: useless athletic conference I wouldn't crap on a plate and serve it to you for $30-40 an hour.
http://www.cafepress.com/lawthug/2017755 |
Date: June 27th, 2006 5:51 PM Author: Bossy Sneaky Criminal Resort Why are xoxo'ers so fucking cheap? I'm a great tipper and so is my boyfriend. Undertipping is tacky. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086321) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:53 PM Author: Learning Disabled Disturbing Black Woman Prole lawyer and law students are pretty notorious for being cunts when it comes to tipping. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086337) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:32 PM Author: comical really tough guy menage Reallly? I must just know good ones luckily. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086671) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:53 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Oooooooooh You're sooooo much better than everyone else.
Do you also pay extra for a newspaper because the guy behind the counter handed it to you instead of you picking it up off the rack yourself? No.
Do you also pay extra for your school tuition because 'the secretary talked to you real nice for a few minutes'? No. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:53 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse Bah. People who throw their money away have psychological problems. If you get some benefit from this have at it, but don't insult the more intelligent of us who don't like this little scam. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086339) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:56 PM Author: Bossy Sneaky Criminal Resort Wtf are you talking about? Waiters make like $2/hr. They LIVE on their tips. And they don't make as much as lawyers, so I think xoxo'ers should, of all people, be more considerate when it comes to compensating laborers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086354) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:57 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: SEE THE OPENING POST Where it's explained that for the actual labor that waiters perform, they're grossly overpaid.
Perhaps I should have a little 'TIP TIMER' that I can tap on and off every time a waiter actually visits my table? And then I'd calculate their hourly wage based upon what any other laborer receives (about $10.00 per hour, if they're lucky). |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:59 PM Author: Flushed Halford Famous Landscape Painting There's a huge difference between a waiter at Denny's and a waiter at Morton's. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086381) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:01 PM Author: Bossy Sneaky Criminal Resort The Morton's waiter is not likely to be living a glamourous life either. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086401) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:03 PM Author: Flushed Halford Famous Landscape Painting I know this, they also have more knowledge about the food and ways to pair it with wine, etc. If you eat out for the hell of it, this doesn't matter....if you like to dine, then this stuff counts and in my opinion justifies the tip. I was a waiter at a nice seafood place in DC after I graduated, I felt I was paid just about right for what I did. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086421) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:26 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Anyone who feels that they are "paid just about right for what they do" is overpaid. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086616) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:42 PM Author: Charcoal Up-to-no-good Masturbator exceptions are few and far between (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089503) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 12:03 AM Author: Vibrant mildly autistic chad That is so true!! Lol. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089694) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:54 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "If you eat out for the hell of it, this doesn't matter....if you like to dine"
I'm sorry, but I hate this attitude. I'm not entirely sure why. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:51 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike perhaps because it's dripping with foodie snobbery. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091895) |
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Date: July 21st, 2006 12:39 AM Author: Exciting Fluffy Whorehouse Party Of The First Part "foodie snobbery" yum! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6263256) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:05 PM Author: Emerald Base Fortuitous Meteor I think the point is more (perhaps entirely) that a Denny's waiter can get away with visiting the table like once, not being particularly friendly, inevitably fucking something up, and still get his $2 tip. The Morton's guy is held to a much higher standard and has to perform a lot more work for his table, not to mention being in constant fear of forgetting that some guy wanted no ice in his water and losing his whole tip. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086438) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:58 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse I'm not following. The fact that I may earn more than someone else doesn't mean I owe them anything. If you get a good, warm, fuzzy feeling in your stomach because of your wastefulness you should go on tossing away your cash. I don't, and so why should I pay and get nothing in return? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086372) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:00 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing The point is that waiters make less than minimum wage, based on the assumption that they'll get tips. If everyone chose not to tip, waiters would have to be paid more per hour, meaning meal prices would go up to compensate. I don't get why everyone thinks they could just save all this money if everyone stopped tipping, since it's pretty obvious that it's false. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086394) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:01 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse I'm banking on the fact not everyone will stop. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086400) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:03 PM Author: Bossy Sneaky Criminal Resort I bet you shoplift too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086418) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:04 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse Nope. Likely cost exceeds likely benefit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086425) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:05 PM Author: Bossy Sneaky Criminal Resort Pussy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086442) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:07 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse Do you shoplift? Rob from wealthy chain stores to pay for your tips to the lowly waiter? Much like robin hood? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086457) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:12 PM Author: Bossy Sneaky Criminal Resort I steal office supplies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086492) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:44 PM Author: Charcoal Up-to-no-good Masturbator Unresponsive. Not hard to know why. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:15 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike he's a pussy because he doesn't do economically irrational things? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091793) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:22 PM Author: Mahogany Swashbuckling Casino only if you're really dumb. If you're halfway intelligent there is like a .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance you'll get caught. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6094230) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:06 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing So it's not really a matter of principle for you, you're just cheap? Obviously you can do whatever you want, but I guess us suckers have a problem stiffing guys who make $2 per hour. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086447) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:08 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse He's not making $2 per hour if there's people like you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086470) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:11 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike exactly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6096529) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:03 PM Author: Emerald Base Fortuitous Meteor "Oh, but if something like a 1/3 of diners followed my lead and refused to tip those animals anything, restaurants would abolish the tipping system, blah..." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086414) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:06 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: WRONG If people failed to tip, food prices would go up, and restaurants would close.
Therefore, food prices won't go up any more than is necessary to pay waitstaff minimum wage. The number of redundant waiters will drop (and there's plenty of them, all standing around chatting instead of working). Waiters will get minimum wage, and they'll actually be forced to work for tips to make up the difference. That is, the burden of tipping will shift to the waiter to earn it, rather than the way it is now where it's expected even for crap service.
Don't bring your false 'waiter-lobby' arguments to the table. They're ridiculous, just as is any defense of tipping. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:09 PM Author: Idiotic hall "If people failed to tip, food prices would go up, and restaurants would close."
And if everybody tipped the proper 15-20%, then well-dressed chimps with no more than a high school level education would making more than the college graduates. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 12:11 AM Author: Vibrant mildly autistic chad Exactly!!! I hate the current system where the default position is that we have to tip a minimum of 15% (even for neutral to poor service), and we are expected to increase this if the service is good.
WTF?! I thought the bloody 15% IS meant to reward good service! |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:07 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Meal prices wouldn't go up enough to offset the money saved by not tipping. Waiters are currently overpaid. Once their compensation is left in the hands of their employers, they will end up with something like a fixed $8 per hour instead of the ridiculous pay they get now. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086460) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:10 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse This sounds likely. What are waitstaff paid in countries without a tipping culture? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086480) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:13 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing A lot more than $8 per hour, which is ridiculous. Australians have told me that waiters at home (in good restaurants) make at least $20 per hour. So you can toss your money saving theories out the window. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086503) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:15 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse $20 per hour is likely much less than they get now at a 'good' restaurant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086513) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:20 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing Depends on the restaurant, and the night. $20 per hour is not a substantial drop, for even most upscale places. At most good restaurants, waiters might average $150-200 per night in tips (obviously there are some restaurants where you can do better than this). An 8 hour shift, at $20 per hour is $160, so you're essentially breaking even. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086549) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:32 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Please support your "$150-$200 per night" assumption with math.
Show the number of hours worked, tables waited per hour, and average bill per table. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:57 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing It's not an assumption, I'm speaking from experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087494) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:16 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Please show the math behind it, douchebag.
hours worked, number of tables per hour, average bill. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:24 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing Douchbag? Ouch, that stings.
Here you go, so now maybe you can stop talking out of your ass.
Average shift: 8 hours. Number of covers: 18 Average Sales per night: $1200 Tips: $150-200
Subtract a tip-out of 2.5% of my total sales, and I'm left with $120-170 per night. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:30 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife So, to summarize:
You think you deserve to be paid $15-$20+ per hour for doing work that a trained monkey could do, and not even doing that work the whole evening? You deserve no more than $7 per hour considering that you must fuck around a lot if you're only waiting 2.25 tables per hour.
Furthermore, I thought we were talking about "nice" restaurants here. A place with an average bill of $67 isn't "nice". You're a low class waiter and you deserve low class wages, so I'll just keep not tipping in order to bring that $15-$20 down to the $7 you deserve. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:38 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing Haha, you're even dumber than I thought. "Covers" means number of customers, not tables. That's an average of $67 per person, which is actually a very conservative estimate on my part. For a table of 4, that's a minimum bill of more than $250. So maybe you can stop talking out of your ass about the "low class" restaurant I worked in.
Your comments on trained monkeys just serve to show what a low class poor you really are. If you knew the first thing about fine dining, you'd know why good servers are always in demand, and most people are perfectly willing to pay a 15% tip. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:47 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Oh noes! So sorry I don't know your faggot waiter lingo.
Unfortunately this new information only weakens your case. You think you deserve $15-$20 per hour to wait even LESS than 2.25 tables per hour?
For that kind of money, I could hire a crappy CPA, a couple of bookkeepers, several trained mexicans who will work much harder than you, etc. You're not worth that much, and the grassroots anti-tipping movement is going to expand to put you in your place. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:50 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing This gets better and better. "Grassroots anti-tipping movement"? Yeah, you're a real revolutionary.
Wages have nothing to do with number of tables. I'm not working at fucking TGI Fridays. We don't rush people in and out in an hour. People sit at the table for 2-3 hours routinely. If you had ever been to anything nicer than the Olive Garden, you'd know this. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:37 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike i'm joining his cause. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091821) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:36 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "you're even dumber than I thought. "Covers" means number of customers, not tables"
yes, most non-dumb people know the terms of art found in ttt occupations.
"most people are perfectly willing to pay a 15% tip."
yeah, because they're coerced into it by social convention. hardly anyone likes tipping. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:34 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "It's not an assumption, I'm speaking from experience."
ooooh! |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:16 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife $20 per hour is still a lot less than they would be getting paid in tips at a NICE restaurant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086519) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:23 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing Not really. They'd make more than that on the weekends, but even nice restaurants are not fully booked on Tuesday and Wednesday nights, so waiters have a big drop in tips those nights. They also work a bunch of hours doing setup and cleanup, when they aren't being tipped. If they were paid $20 per hour for all that time, they'd come close to breaking even.
Obviously there would be some exceptions, for the priciest restaurants, where waiters would make more in tips. However, it'd be likely that these restaurants would then pay more per hour to attract the best service staff. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:33 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Why do you think a waiter is worth as much per hour as a CPA? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086688) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:12 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing I think a waiter is worth whatever diners are willing to pay. Why do you think you should be the one to determine what waiters are worth? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087623) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:00 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse "I think a waiter is worth whatever diners are willing to pay."
So if I'm not willing to tip the waiter is worth that. Thanks for agreeing with us. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:14 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Haha, this idiot doesn't even realize when he's pwning himself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089253) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:27 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing I'm speaking about customers as a whole group, you fucking retard. This takes into account classless poors like yourself who think they're brilliantly cheating the system by not tipping. Keep it up, you're really winning at the game of life. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089365) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:34 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife I am winning at the game of life compared to you. You're the low class trash serving the whims of prestigious people like me in hopes that you might get some token handout. Crushing your dreams feels oh so very nice.
You are a fucking WAITER. Kill yourself. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:43 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing That's cute. I'm a student, this isn't a career for me. I work at one of the top resorts in North America, eat gourmet food for free at my restaurant, and play free golf at a top 10 course all summer. On top of this, we don't have to deal with classless poors like yourself, because they can't afford to get in the front door. Yeah, I really feel the need to kill myself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089514) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:49 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife You fetch food for people to earn money. Kill yourself, errand boy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089575) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:53 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing Because document review for 18 hours per day is really living the dream. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089603) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:40 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike do you get to hang out with the housekeepers, too? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091825) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:39 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "I think a waiter is worth whatever diners are willing to pay."
goofy-ass social conventions aren't the paragon of the free market system. tipping is largely welfare. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:58 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market $20 Australian? I'm not impressed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086947) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:29 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "A lot more than $8 per hour, which is ridiculous."
prove it, bob. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:56 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "If everyone chose not to tip, waiters would have to be paid more per hour, meaning meal prices would go up to compensate"
Would they go up by more than we pay in tips? I think not. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:33 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "i don't get why everyone thinks they could just save all this money if everyone stopped tipping, since it's pretty obvious that it's false."
you don't see because you're stupid. current tips include fear, status, and altruism components. the tipping convention isn't squeezed by the forces of competition.
that leaves fluff that we can purge.
it's pretty obvious that there's bullshit that we can get rid of. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:04 PM Author: big immigrant xoxohthers are much smarter and more critical than the general population. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086428) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 6:07 AM Author: pink sanctuary pistol *xo'ers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091739) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:06 PM Author: Idiotic hall Conversely, overtipping is not indicative of class. People who overtrip are generally too dumb to recognize waiters require the same level of technical training/education as a McDonald's employee. In fact, I'd argue the the McDonald's employee working on the line works as hard as any waiter ever has. It's just unjust that waiters are nonetheless paid twice or three times much (per hour) as the other, mostly because people feel pressured to conform to social norms.
Next time you tip the McDonalds dude, then consider yourself highbrow. Otherwise, fuck off. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:07 PM Author: big immigrant Dumb people tip because they know someone who is a waiter and feel guilt. Prestigious people have none. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086456) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:53 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market It has little to do with being cheap. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086885) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:03 PM Author: Appetizing aggressive station background story it's 'tacky' bc the restaurant industry has convinced people that a high rate of tipping is classy. this allows them lower fixed costs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087008) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:13 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike DorotheaBrooke soothes her insecurities by giving money to waiters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091791) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:52 PM Author: Flushed Halford Famous Landscape Painting The tipping threads are getting old. Just be cheap and miserable by yourself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086329) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:59 PM Author: Emerald Base Fortuitous Meteor I don't really understand what the point of posting them is, other than argument for the sake of argument. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086380) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:00 PM Author: Flushed Halford Famous Landscape Painting It's an easy way for an argument. This is what happens when arrogant nerds are allowed in polite society. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086387) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:00 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse I like them. They validate my opinion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086389) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:11 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Nice grammar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086490) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:00 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "other than argument for the sake of argument."
Uh, how long have you been posting on this board? This should come as no surprise. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:48 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike no arguing on the discussion board please! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091833) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:53 PM Author: Soul-stirring lake hissy fit den Just as I am slowly being converted to fiber, I am also being converted to hating tipping and wait staff in general. THANKS XOXO. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086333) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:54 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse You are learning. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086346) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:56 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Glad to hear it. Think about the response a secretary would receive if they came here and expected a pay raise simply because they didn't just type, but they 'talked nice'? They'd be ripped to pieces.
So why the different response to waiters who are essentially saying "I talk to you guys real nice and make you feel welcome. Give me a payraise."
Especially when most people want the waiter to shut the hell up and concentrate on not screwing up the order. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:07 PM Author: Emerald Base Fortuitous Meteor God so many of you people are hateful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086458) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:10 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing You do a lot of dining at TGI Fridays, don't you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086486) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:02 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market I love how the most fervent prot-tipping and anti-tipping partisans try to make the other side appear low-class. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086984) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:06 PM Author: chrome personal credit line Yes, but would you shoot yourself for failing to get accepted to HYSC? Then you'd really be buying the brand.
Oh, and basing your career on vault rankings. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:21 PM Author: Soul-stirring lake hissy fit den Fortunately I am well past that stage of my career. I am actually an old hand and considered suicide daily when posting on the PR board for consenting to go to my TTT.
Then I started getting paid and I didnt much care. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:48 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike come to the dark side! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091834) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 5:56 PM Author: soggy boltzmann I tip 15% of pre-tax, and that's it. On rare occasions I'll give a more generous tip, but it's because I feel bad for the waiter (like if I'm out with friends who are making asses of themselves, that sort of thing), not because service was OMG AMAZING. I don't get this whole movement to "20% is the new 15%" or whatever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086359) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:02 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse 10% is the new 15% (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086412) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:02 PM Author: Concupiscible Bronze Locale Sound Barrier Just double the tax. Areas with lower sales taxes have lower COL, it works out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086411) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:18 PM Author: sexy field roast beef Hmm, someone makes a mistake when in your order, yet serve you well and are kind, yet you leave no tip. Hmm, I wrote a really great paper, but it had a single punctuation error, it deserves an F. How about you try being kind and curteous, to EVERYONE you meet, and furthermore waiting on their every order and command, real easy. You people are cheap, and by undertipping trying to prove your worth as an individual, it makes you look completely socially malfunct- i.e. so weird you would have such an overdramatic action. Thus all your "power" from undertipping or not tipping, really backfires on its intended purpose. Maybe your just cheap fucks, and no one likes that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086539) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:21 PM Author: Concupiscible Bronze Locale Sound Barrier Link? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086564) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:05 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market You've got to be a patsy for the anti-tipping movement.
"Hmm, someone makes a mistake when in your order, yet serve you well and are kind, yet you leave no tip. Hmm, I wrote a really great paper, but it had a single punctuation error, it deserves an F."
Uh, I came to the restaurant for my order, not for the kindness of a paid employee. Making a mistake in the order is like writing a paper on the wrong topic, not a punctuaion mistake.
"How about you try being kind and curteous, to EVERYONE you meet, and furthermore waiting on their every order and command, real easy."
I expect every employee at every job to do this, including myself, without tips. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:14 PM Author: Concupiscible Bronze Locale Sound Barrier Seriously. What a fucking retard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087093) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 12:58 AM Author: Vibrant mildly autistic chad Exactly! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6090192) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:59 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike oregon has no col! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091902) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:13 PM Author: Ruby candlestick maker I generally overtip because of the inconsiderate assholes like you in the world.
I especially like the parsing of the tipping pre-tax vs tipping post-tax. Are you seriously telling me that 15% of 6% of a $100 meal is that big of a deal? If so, you have bigger problems then lazy, poor waiters. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:16 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse Thank you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086521) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:03 PM Author: Wine locus hominid Subject: who are you? Strong rebuttal to the anti-tippers. I cant imagine not giving 15%, who would be such an asshole? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088550) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:01 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "I generally overtip because of the inconsiderate assholes like you in the world."
that makes me feel better about joining the no-tip movement. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:17 PM Author: red stage THAT WAITER DUN BROUGHT OUT MAH TATER SKINS PLUM COLD! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086530) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:19 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker If your lot in life is better than someone else's, and it almost always is when the interaction is between a waiter and a professional, then you have a moral duty to the person who is worse off than you, because where you are in life may have much to do with hard work, but it has nearly just as much to do with pure luck in nearly all cases. They need that money more than you do, and, just as importantly, they are working for it, so they should have it. Simple as that. This attitude displays three good values which were serve well to keep your good fortune from turning you into a douchebag: Classiness to others, humility regarding your accomplishments, and gratitude for the opportunities you've been given which you were very lucky to have. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086543) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:19 PM Author: sexy field roast beef Hmm, someone makes a mistake when in your order, yet serve you well and are kind, yet you leave no tip. Hmm, I wrote a really great paper, but it had a single punctuation error, it deserves an F. How about you try being kind and curteous, to EVERYONE you meet, and furthermore waiting on their every order and command- real easy. You people are cheap, and by undertipping trying to prove your worth as an individual, it makes you look completely socially malfunct- i.e. so weird that you would have such an overdramatic action. Thus all your "power" from undertipping or not tipping, really backfires on its intended purpose. Maybe your just cheap fucks, and seeing how prestigious and moral everyone is here, how could you miss the irony. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086546) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:22 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker Why are you replying to me? I advocated tipping in all cases, on the basis of a moral duty that runs from the haves to the have-nots, where those have-nots perform a service for you. I also agree that a more general duty of kindness and courtesy runs to everyone. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086581) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:25 PM Author: Emerald Base Fortuitous Meteor Hahaha, why are you telling this to that guy? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086605) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:22 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse zzzzzzzzzzz
Why no tipping in other social interactions with people of even greater need? |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:23 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker I already addressed this in what I said at first: The moral duty is only created when those people are performing a service for you for which they legitimately expect to be compensated by you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086592) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:29 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse Why are legitimate expectations created in some circumstances and not in others? The only argument seems to be from tradition ("we have always tipped"). A fairly weak foundation to base moral principles on.
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:36 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker "we have always tipped" creates the obligation, not the underlying moral principle. The underlying moral principle is based on the idea that classiness, humility, and gratitude (not just to the waiter, but for your own lot in life) are good values to have. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086706) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 6:39 AM Author: racy university You clearly haven't thought this out. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091750) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:38 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "'we have always tipped' creates the obligation"
no, it doesn't |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:23 PM Author: big immigrant eurotrash faggot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086590) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:27 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker In most of europe they don't have tipping, no? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086624) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:47 PM Author: Massive electric love of her life correct. or the tip is just to round the bill up to the next euro/pound/whatever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086812) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:25 PM Author: chrome personal credit line I'm cancelling my subscription to your newsletter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086603) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:28 PM Author: Idiotic hall "then you have a moral duty to the person who is worse off than you"
FUCK. YOU.
For every dollar I don't tip, I'll give two to the United Way. But I assure you I feel no sympathy for the douchebag high school girl who needs a waitress job to pay for her third Prada bag. How do I know that's how those dumbasses spend their money? Just talk to the waitstaff for 5 seconds. Fucking excuse me while a scoff at your failed sympathies for those douchebags who put turds on your burger and demand 18% for bringing my water.
It's not like those fags have flies circling their face. Worse off my ass. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:33 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker I wasn't talking about charity. That's noble too, but it comes from a totally different moral place. The tip you give a waiter isn't charity, it's consideration, it's just that the duty to render that consideration comes from a moral place instead of one based on efficiency or exact hourly rates or whatever nonsense you people are arguing. And like any other consideration, what the waiter does with it is none of your business. Giving a decent tip to a waiter is NOT like giving 25 cents to a bum. It's consideration for a service rendered, and even though you are not obligated to pay more than the price on the check, you have not paid for the full price of the services you have received unless you tip at least 15%. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086684) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:36 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse breathtaking idiocy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086705) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:37 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker care to elaborate? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086711) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:37 PM Author: Idiotic hall It's charity. Don't fucking kid yourself.
And why not 2%. Who said the service was WORTH 15%? Oh right, the waitstaff. What an unbiased decisoin maker when it comes to price-setting.
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:38 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker It's not about worth. That's what the waiter legitimately expects to receive, and you go in knowing that this general tradition is what the waiter is relying on. Adequacy of the consideration is irrelevant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086724) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:43 PM Author: Idiotic hall Tradition is a fantastic market force. What an economically rational reason to spend x dollars on a tip: Because other people do.
Not like technical/vocational or higher education. Now THAT is a retarded indicator of wage. Completely worthless |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:49 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker Traditions in the marketplace have long been a recognized foundation for commercial interaction. See e.g. the UCC and its love for recognized commercial standards in interpreting contracts.
*EDIT: Also, you don't base what you pay someone on educational achievement, you base it on what they can provide you and what the market is willing to pay for it. Education just happens to often (but not always) be positively correlated with ability to provide a useful service. There's no magical bank that exchanges degrees for piles of money. This just shows the popular asinine credentialist attitude among lawyers/law students/would be law students: You get paid for what you can do, and education is often a good proxy for what you can do, but don't confuse the proxy for what it represents. The fact is the waiter provides good service and foreseeably relies on a 15% minimum tip, and that obligates you to provide it. Decide based on service, not based on an idiotic idea that no one without some fancy degree on their wall is "worth" the 15%. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:10 PM Author: Concupiscible Bronze Locale Sound Barrier Actually for government jobs, pay grade is based on educational attainment. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087055) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:13 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker True, but then some would argue that government isn't exactly a model for efficiency, though it is a much more pleasant place to work. Anyway, I still stand by what I say: Don't confuse the proxy for what it represents. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087087) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:30 PM Author: Bistre Associate Cuck Subject: CIRCULARLOGICPWN3D "It's not about worth. That's what the waiter **legitimately** expects to receive, and you go in knowing that this general tradition is what the waiter is relying on. Adequacy of the consideration is irrelevant."
But the conversation revolves around whether the expectation is legitimate in the first place. You are merely begging the question. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:38 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker I believe that in this case (not in all, but in this one), the tradition is self-legitimizing by virtue of its universal acceptance. I'm not so much assuming what I'm trying to prove as I am saying that sometimes something can prove itself. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087358) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:36 PM Author: Cobalt international law enforcement agency gas station Some hospitality professors claim that the reason Americans tip so much compared to other countries is because Americans are more comfortable buying social acceptance. Odd, considering that if you consider the love of a woman social acceptance, then people from other countries are more comfortable doing that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088296) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:58 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "the tradition is self-legitimizing by virtue of its universal acceptance"
your presupposition is false. it's not universally accepted. people are bitching about it here. people bitch about it on other sites. slate authors have bitched about it http://www.slate.com/id/2073161/ . nytimes writers have bitched about it http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/opinion/10shaw.html?ex=1281326400&en=fce94190f5ff2faa&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:52 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "Adequacy of the consideration is irrelevant."
right. it's not a contract at all. consideraton is irrelevant, and therefore adequacy of consideration is irrelevant. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:06 PM Author: Painfully honest telephone A-fucking-MEN it's charity. Most waiters would consider 20-25% to be an "acceptable" percentage, though. 15% to them is verging on the order of an insult. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087559) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:08 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike just wait until i leave a 0% death blow to the nads. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091938) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:08 PM Author: Painfully honest telephone "But I assure you I feel no sympathy for the douchebag high school girl who needs a waitress job to pay for her third Prada bag."
Family Guy? |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:41 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife "it has nearly just as much to do with pure luck in nearly all cases"
Please back up this unsubstantiated assertion. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:48 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker Intelligence is luck. Good upbringing is luck. Coupled with hard work, these things often equal success. Very few people truly pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. Those who did not cannot legitimately claim that people in shitty jobs are there for their own fault, and people who did pull themselves up and who claim such a thing obviously learned entirely the wrong lesson from that experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086822) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:55 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Please explain how intelligence is "luck"? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086915) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:00 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker Well, it's up for debate, I grant, but to some extent at least, it's luck. Extreme example: It is by luck alone that you were not born clinically mentally retarded. There is nothing, good or bad, as a person, that you could do to dictate an outcome that was decided before you were born. Less extreme: To a great extent, ability on standardized tests, and many other predictors of societal success, are ingrained, and many of the things that are brought about by subsequent development are brought about by living in a good or bad town or going to a good or bad high school or having good or bad parents, and to that extent you deserve neither credit for success nor blame for failure. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086973) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:13 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Interesting. So you also believe it's possible that intelligence is unequally distributed across race? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087081) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:18 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker I suppose it could be possible, but it would be impossible to demonstrate because it would be impossible to control for all the socioeconomic factors to isolate the nature from the nurture. Regardless, one is equally blameless for having bad parents as for having bad genes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087126) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:23 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Regardless of if someone is blameless for having bad genes, don't you think the human race could be improved if steps were undertaken to prevent those bad genes from being passed on? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087193) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:13 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market Did you choose your genes? Your parents? Didn't think so. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087083) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:20 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife If you believe intelligence is genetic, that opens up a whole can of worms regarding what we should do with the negro race. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087159) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:26 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market That's pretty irrelevant to our discussion here, don't you think? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087221) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:32 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Not really, I was wondering if you had thought out the racist undertones behind your assertions before you made them, or if you were just ignorant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087306) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:36 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker There aren't any racial undertones to arguing that intelligence is often largely a product of luck. Whether it's a product of nature or nurture need not be resolved. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087341) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:46 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "Not really,"
Yes, really. The fact that asserting that intelligence is partially or wholly based on genetics leaves open the mere possibility that some races are less/more intelligent on average is, truly, irrelevant to whether intelligence is based on luck.
"I was wondering if you had thought out the racist undertones behind your assertions before you made them, or if you were just ignorant."
(a) There are not "racist undertones" behind my assertions and (b) I had realized long ago that the fact that intelligence is based in part on genetics leaves open the possibility that some races could be less/more intelligent on average.
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:21 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife So please answer the question: are you prepared to undertake the steps necessary to prevent inferior genes from being passed on? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089309) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:19 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market No. First, "inferior" is in the eye of the beholder. Second, that would require infringement of many peoples' innate rights.
Are you prepared to admit that intelligence is determined in large part by luck? |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:06 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market You forgot to add communism to the list of good values this view embodies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087034) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:18 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker How is paying the market price for a service communism? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087134) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:20 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market The restaurant service "market" is a broken market.
BTW, I was mainly going with the whole "you owe someone something because they are worse off than you." |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:24 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker Read the rest of what I said. You don't just owe someone something because they're worse off. You owe someone something for a service they provide to you, and when they're significantly worse off than you, the duty to compensate them for it becomes a moral one and you should no longer be haggling about whether the service is precisely "worth it" whatever that means. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087205) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:26 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market But you don't owe the same duty under the same conditions to someone who's better off? Why is that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087231) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:32 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker Then, in the case of the better off, you're obligated to pay what you agree to pay, and you can fight to pay less if you want to dispute it. There's moral sentiment for that too: People should keep their word. But interactions with the less fortunate are about more than just keeping your word (or in the case of tipping, your implied word), but about a higher moral calling. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087303) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:10 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market Why? You have said so. You have not explained.
(Plus, this is based on an assumption that waiters are "less-fortunate" rather than "less-motivated," which is not always true) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:24 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker The proper presumption as to whether someone is less motivated or less fortunate is that they are presumptively less fortunate, since they are obviously hard workers or they wouldn't be waiters. Similarly, someone who is successful is presumptively successful because of both luck and hard work, but luck is definitely a presumable but-for cause.
As to why a duty is higher when owed to someone lower? Because they need it more, you need it less, and everyone knows it. Same reason it might be illegal to steal bread for your family from a large supermarket, but it ain't amoral.
I'm not all that communist really, but there is one sentiment I truly love about that moral set: "From each according to his ability, and to each according to his need." |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:28 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "The proper presumption as to whether someone is less motivated or less fortunate is that they are presumptively less fortunate, since they are obviously hard workers or they wouldn't be waiters"
BWAHAHAHAHAHA! That is laughable on so many grounds.
"Because they need it more, you need it less, and everyone knows it."
First, I beleive in helping the less-fortunate. However, I don't believe NOT giving someone something JUST because they have less than you is wrong, EVEN if they expect it.
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:35 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker It's not that they expect it, it's that they REASONABLY expect it, and because you knew they expected it going in. In that case, and that case only, it is wrong to fail to give someone worse off than you something they expect. We may just have to agree to disagree there though.
As for the laughter, waiting sucks, and it's an extremely difficult, exhausting job. The fact that it doesn't take a tremendous amount of mental acuity does NOT make it easier. Digging ditches may not be challenging, but it is most certainly difficult. Learn the difference. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:40 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market I'm well aware of the difference between hard work and smart work. I'm also good friends with many waiters. The fact that they are waiters is absolutely no indication of (a) their nature as "hard workers" as opposed to "less-motivated to find a job that requires more training" workers or (b) their statuts as "less fortunate" as opposed to "less motivated" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087886) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:58 PM Author: Cobalt international law enforcement agency gas station You're right. There shouldn't be an implicit assumption that someone is worse off because they are waiting tables. It's a good way to make money before you finish off whatever else you happen to be doing. For example, I live in a very economically depressed town; however, the restaurant business is at an equilibrium such that the restaurants that have been there for a while have steady business and the servers and owners make pretty decent bank. This is unlikely to change. I have a problem with the previous posters assumption that you should give alms to the waiters because you think he's some sort of Pip-like figure just trying to feed their distended bellies. It's a little bit self-righteous. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088027) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:49 PM Author: Beady-eyed cowardly twinkling uncleanness "I have a problem with the previous posters assumption that you should give alms to the waiters because you think he's some sort of Pip-like figure just trying to feed their distended bellies."
You're thinking of Oliver Twist, not Pip. Pip had food enough to spare for runaway convicts. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:11 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "It's not that they expect it, it's that they REASONABLY expect it"
they also reasonably expect to get stiffed on occasion.
"it is wrong to fail to give someone worse off than you something they expect."
someone has to give them the solid occassional stiffing that they reasonably expect. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 10:50 AM Author: dun elite fat ankles crackhouse "It's not that they expect it, it's that they REASONABLY expect it, and because you knew they expected it going in. In that case, and that case only, it is wrong to fail to give someone worse off than you something they expect."
this does not respond to the question of whether tipping is good or not. if we abolished it, waiters wouldn't expect it. by your logic, it would be morally equivalent to charity. there seem to be many strong arguments for why it's more efficient to abolish it. therefore, by kant's imperative (since you sound a lot like a kantian), individuals should stop tipping since we'd be better off if everyone stopped. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:07 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "How is paying the market price for a service communism?"
goofy social conventions aren't the epitome of free markets. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:05 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "If your lot in life is better than someone else's, and it almost always is when the interaction is between a waiter and a professional, then you have a moral duty to the person who is worse off than you"
bullshit. there's no moral duty to redistribute your wealth to every bum you encounter who has a shitty job.
"They need that money more than you do, and, just as importantly, they are working for it, so they should have it. Simple as that."
no, they should go do someting more productive and quit relying like a panhandler on the generosity of others for their income. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:24 PM Author: Histrionic drab stead What a loser you are. Cheap mother fucker. STAY THE FUCK HOME! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086595) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:13 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike as has been said elsewhere, if they don't like my tipping rules, maybe they should get another job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091952) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:26 PM Author: Milky Center this really just shows what a bunch of tools many of you are. have you ever heard of going out and enjoying a meal in the companying of a friend or friends? you know - just having a good time and not worrying about things like your waiter's salary. just following social conventions (a 20% tip) and (god forbid!) wasting 5 or 10 dollars here and there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086618) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:30 PM Author: Ruby candlestick maker ti,oc,tcr.
Most people on this board are or will make many times what any waiter makes, and some here obsess over it as if it impacts their life at all. How sad. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 10:51 AM Author: dun elite fat ankles crackhouse i hope you also drop $5 to $10 on every bum and panhandler you cross paths with. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6101406) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:31 PM Author: big immigrant There are plenty of people on here, most bored out of their fucking mind. We've talked about everything, this is a decently entertaining enough topic. "Holier than thou" posts like yours are what's really pathetic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086663) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:33 PM Author: Ruby candlestick maker In case you hadn't noticed, the "Holier than thou" attitude is going both ways. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086681) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:37 PM Author: Histrionic drab stead The more you post the less I like you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086720) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:42 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Most of the pro-tipping segment of this site is the same waiter posting under many different monikers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086757) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:51 PM Author: Beady-eyed cowardly twinkling uncleanness This waiter?
http://www.waiterrant.net |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:31 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse If I have 5 or 10 dollars more I can buy something from Starbucks the day after my enjoyable meal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086665) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:14 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike agreed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091957) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:32 PM Author: Idiotic hall Oh, social conventions. We'll if I don't conform then I must be a losers.
You are the kid a $1500 worth of pogs and slammers in your closet, aren't you? |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:37 PM Author: comical really tough guy menage It's not just a social convention. Whether you like it or not for the time being these people make like 2 bucks an hour so when you stiff them you're screwing them over. Plus they still have to tip out bus boys, hostesses, drink makers etc so it's not like they are making bank here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086715) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:39 PM Author: Idiotic hall $20/hour for someone who doesn't even have a college degree isn't making the bank? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086730) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:40 PM Author: comical really tough guy menage You think full time waiters actually make 40k? You're nuts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086736) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:06 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker titcr. For every hour they make $20, there's an hour they make $2. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087028) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:11 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife $11 per hour is still overpaying them. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087064) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:17 PM Author: Milky Center why do you focus on how much they make and whether they're overpaid? why don't you focus on whether you're enjoying the meal or the company? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087118) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:20 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker Because, unfortunately, for some people, all of life is a zero sum game, and you are in an unspoken pissing contest with absolutely everyone you meet. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087154) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:21 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife tipping is zero sum.
HTFH, retard. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:50 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker Every dollar you give the waiter is one less dollar you have, yes, but A zero sum GAME is only a GAME if you PLAY it, so tipping is only a zero sum game if your goal is to minimize the waiter's tip, and if that's your goal then it very nicely proves that you think you're in some kind of competition with everyone you meet even when they're just trying to make you happy. That's a real douchey attitude, have fun with that.
As you can see, by claiming that tipping is zero sum, you clearly just self-pwn3d, because just admitting that you think that way is proving my point. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:26 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife You just demonstrated that you don't even know what a zero sum game is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087753) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:30 PM Author: Galvanic piazza boistinker A zero sum game is where, when one side's games are subtracted from the other side's losses, the sum is zero. If you perceive every dollar in tip as a loss to you, then you are playing a zero sum game with the waiter.
Example: You should give waiter $3 in tip according to convention, but you don't, you give nothing. You have now gained $3 and the waiter has lost $3. 3-3=0, so you have a zero sum game. But if you don't perceive the $3 as a loss to you, then you are not thinking in zero sum terms, and the interaction is no longer a zero sum game. If you do think of it as a zero sum game, it's because you actually think in zero sum terms while tipping, which makes you a douchebag.
HTH. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:52 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse "why don't you focus on whether you're enjoying the meal or the company?"
Why should you pay the waiter for your enjoyment of the meal or the company?
If I enjoy the meal extensively, I get even more utility if I also get to keep my tip money. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:24 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Exactly, I enjoy my meal and company, then further augment my enjoyment with a little slice of pwnage by writing $0.00 on the CC slip at the end of the meal.
Then, I go home and record the amount I saved by not tipping into a spreadsheet. When I've reached a decent total, I go out and buy frivolous items for myself with the money saved. Not tipping adds to my enjoyment long after I've left the restaurant. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 6:25 AM Author: pink sanctuary pistol literally laughed out loud (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091743) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:43 AM Author: Impertinent Brethren Box Office n for no is a very good poster. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091828) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:16 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "why don't you focus on whether you're enjoying the meal or the company?"
i will enjoy the meal and the company regardless of whether i tip. therefore i will not tip. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:03 PM Author: Very Tactful Supple Step-uncle's House i know waiters who were making 60K at high end restaurants in nyc. this is absolutely absurd, nothing they could be doing is worth this much. POP goes the $150 bottle of wine! $30 bucks earned in 30 seconds. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087535) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:38 PM Author: Cobalt international law enforcement agency gas station Someone needs to wait tables at a high-end restaurant. Most people who get those jobs are very well-trained, know the food through a lot of serious study, and have years of experience in the restaurant business. A lot of them genuinely want to serve people and have made a career out of doing it very very well. However, there is a small movement to include gratuity in the price of a restaurant bill in NYC. Some restaurant started doing it, but they started doing it because of the discord between cooks and servers. Cooks, miserable lot that they are, certainly are underpaid. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087857) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:44 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing "Cooks, miserable lot that they are, certainly are underpaid."
This is a good point. There have definitely been nights that I've felt guilty about making so much more than the cooks. After all, people generally tip better if they are really impressed with the food, which of course I had nothing to do with. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:50 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike per se in nyc doesn't have tipping. the author of the slate article i posted mentions chez panisse as a place that doesn't have tipping. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091893) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 3:10 PM Author: comical really tough guy menage Right but those are the waiters that can recomend the best entrees on the menu and the perfect bottle to go with them. The same waiters who are careful to make sure my meal is nicely paced and I have everything I need. It's a service I'm willing to pay for and I prefer to decide how much I pay for it instead of having it included. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6094644) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:37 PM Author: Floppy hyperventilating place of business After considering the various opinions of the thread and my own past tipping behavior (tipping on POST-tax, which I thought was standard), I've decided to tip 15% pre-tax, rounding down to a whole dollar amount. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086718) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:18 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market At any rate, I'm wholeheartedly against this supposed 20%, post-tax "standard" touted by the waiter lobby. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087127) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:42 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "The Ever-Expanding American Restaurant Tip" http://www.slate.com/id/2073161/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091826) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:28 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "But Lynn surmises that if we tip for the approbation of the person who is serving us, and "an average tip doesn't get that approval or attention," over time the definition of a generous tip must grow."
This hits the nail on the head and explains why waiters MUST dress down tip critics or "poor" tippers. If they don't, there's not reason to leave a tip. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:04 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse You seem very wise. (You should also tip less on alcohol than 15%. It's easy to carry wine or beer.) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088078) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:09 PM Author: Milky Center whether it's easy to carry something is not the determining factor in a tip. it's social convention and proper form. a tip of 18-20% is standard, 25% for good service. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088115) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:34 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market " tip of 18-20% is standard, 25% for good service"
That is a vile myth propagated by the server lobby. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:41 PM Author: Milky Center no - that's what people with money do. no one with class has tipped 15% in 20 years or more. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088336) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:20 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike why? is it because it's a social status game and you don't get any points if you tip the average? is that's what causes it to go up for no other reason? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091980) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:31 PM Author: pontificating parlor wagecucks BS. 15% is credited for standard service. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6094322) |
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Date: July 20th, 2006 5:58 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse "no one with class has tipped 15% in 20 years or more."
bs. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:38 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse "a tip of 18-20% is standard, 25% for good service."
Crazy. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 1:20 AM Author: Vibrant mildly autistic chad You are insane. That's EXACTLY the ridiculous attitude that I despise.
Btw, not you, it's that line of thinking. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:38 PM Author: Charismatic theater goyim I don't have a problem with giving high tips. The only thing which annoys me is that I feel that I don't really feel I can order light without expecting worse service because the waiter isn't working ofr his tip. SOmetimes I order just a salad, but I feel the waiters try less when you do (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086723) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:40 PM Author: Floppy hyperventilating place of business One problem I have is when more than one waiter waits on you (one takes your order, another brings the entree). Doesn't this mean they pool the tips? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086742) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:54 PM Author: Charismatic theater goyim no idea (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6086903) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:16 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing Generally, yes they do. Why would this be a problem for you? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087664) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:50 PM Author: ocher frum point psychic not that i need to add to this, but i actually like tipping because it allows me to control the price of my meal based on my satisfaction.
sure, it may be called a 'gratuity' but the tip is part of the price of the meal. if you can't afford the tip, you can't afford to eat at that restaurant. if you didn't tip, you didn't pay for your meal.
and as for paying waiters a flat tip that works out to $10 an hour compensation, i don't think anyone would want to be served food by the flunkies that would work for that kind of money.
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Date: June 27th, 2006 6:53 PM Author: Floppy hyperventilating place of business "if you didn't tip, you didn't pay for your meal."
Unless the service was really bad. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:19 PM Author: Milky Center ummm... no. you really shouldn't vary your tip much based on the service. if there's a major problem, you should ask to speak to the manager, explain why you're failing to tip (though a person with class would still tip 20%), and never return to the restaurant again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087143) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:22 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market You've got to be fucking kidding me.
A person with class tips 20% for shitty waiter service and takes it out on the owner by never returning?
ridiculous |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:46 PM Author: Milky Center yes. that's what a person who knows how to comport themselves in respectable society does. and you're not 'taking it out on the owner' for the waiter-staff's shortcomings; you're taking it out on him because he's incapable of hiring a competent staff.
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:30 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market Why are you so unforgiving (i.e. not a single second chance) for restaurant owners, yet you would you pay a 20% GRATUITY to a waiter who does not deserve it??
Your ideas about respectable society are fucking laughable. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:04 PM Author: Milky Center you can say what you want about me. first, you misunderstood what i said earlier. i told you the way that respectable people with class and money and handle situations like the one where people like YOU stiff waiters on tips. i never said i did something like that.
frankly, when i go out, i don't make a stink about things. i'll tip 20-25% for any type of service. to me, life is too short to make a stink about service by stiffing a waiter or talking to the management. that's the way i handle things. perhaps it's because i was raised properly, unlike you.
talk to successful people in any walk of life and you'll see that i'm correct and you're simply an unrefined, classless individual who doesn't know how to act properly. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:17 PM Author: Cobalt international law enforcement agency gas station Besides, management has no real control over what's going on anyway. They just get in the way. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088164) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:35 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market They can fire poor servers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6094365) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:19 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "when i go out, i don't make a stink about things. i'll tip 20-25% for any type of service. to me, life is too short to make a stink about service by stiffing a waiter or talking to the management"
you don't have to make a stink. tip nothing and leave. doesn't get much easier than that. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:34 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "I told you the way that respectable people with class and money and handle situations like the one where people like YOU stiff waiters on tips"
Two problems. First, you mentioned class, not money. I'm not surprised you can't tell the difference.
Second, you're doing the same thing you accuse me of. I never said I would stiff people. I said it's ridiculous to pay a 20% tip to a waiter that sucks and not give the restaurant a second chance after alerting them to the problem. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:27 PM Author: ocher frum point psychic i don't agree with that. if your meal was shitty, the tip allows you to adjust for that. i've declined to tip before, and i've also walked out before i was served. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087238) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:48 PM Author: Milky Center that's fine, but that's not the way respectable society behaves. you can do anything you want, but you've got to be prepared for the consequences. frankly, i pity you because you'll be mocked behind your back for your entire life if you continue to give inferior tips and walk out before you're served. your contemporaries will refuse to dine with you in the future and they will think less of you if they are well-heeled. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087423) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:56 PM Author: ocher frum point psychic i refuse to wait around for 30 minutes drinking water waiting for a server. inferior service results in an inferior tip, or none at all. i've walked out once, and only refused to tip two or three times.
so you can cram your respectable society lecture up your ass, emily post. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:19 PM Author: Cobalt international law enforcement agency gas station I agree with you and I'm a waiter. There's no reason you should wait that long. Though there could be some extenuating circumstances, water isn't very tasty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087680) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:23 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing This seems fair. I've worked a lot of time as a waiter, and that wouldn't stop me from leaving no tip, if the service was that bad. I'm not sure where this "tip 20%, no matter what happens" idea came from. Having been a waiter, I'm probably more generous than most people with my tips, as long as the service is good. But if the service is bad, you still have every right not to tip. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087710) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:24 PM Author: Cobalt international law enforcement agency gas station Yeah. Nice sn, btw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087722) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:32 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "I've worked a lot of time as a waiter"
No, really? |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:42 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing I had a feeling it might not be a big secret. Regardless, I do think tipping is the best system. The total amount the customer pays isn't going to change that much, whether waiters work on tips or hourly wage, despite what some of the posters here think. At least the tipping system gives you some control over the service you receive, and provides an incentive for the waiter to give you the best service possible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087896) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:44 PM Author: Cobalt international law enforcement agency gas station Seeing as the profit margin of most restaurants is razor-thin to begin with. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087915) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:58 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse "At least the tipping system gives you some control over the service you receive"
How does it do that? By the time you tip the service is basically over. No matter how much you tip the service has already been rendered. If you get great service you are even more better off if you don't tip (great service + $$ > great service). |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:01 PM Author: Cobalt international law enforcement agency gas station He's speaking on a larger scale, fuckwit. The "you" in "service you receive" is a reference to the customers as a whole. Since everyone has a pretty good understanding of the system (save rednecks and foreigners), the servers and servees reach a balance between 15% and 20% on a whole.
Of course, this is theoretical. I read somewhere that most people tip consistently regardless of the service. I think it was Cornell's hospitality school that commissioned the thing. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:09 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse On the larger scale the actions of one person have little control over anything. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088109) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:02 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing It gives you control because the waiter has a reason to keep you happy. If you seem unhappy, the waiter knows he's not going to get as much money from you. If there was no tipping, the waiter would have no incentive to provide more than the minimum required. The waiter would basically just have to avoid pissing you off, rather than trying to make you enjoy your meal. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088063) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:16 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse Somehow I get good service at establishments without tipping, and in countries that do not have a tipping culture. No matter where I am I can act unhappy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088157) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:18 PM Author: Cobalt international law enforcement agency gas station But eventually, someone might take a swing at you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088172) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 11:06 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "there was no tipping, the waiter would have no incentive to provide more than the minimum required."
and restaurants would keep that minimum high in order to compete with other restaurants. if people don't enjoy their meals, they go to other restaurants, and the restaurants with shitty servers go out of business or reduce prices. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:06 PM Author: Milky Center that's all well and good. i guess i just don't frequent places where i would ever be forced to experience truly terrible service.
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:31 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "that's not the way respectable society behaves"
What are you, a Daughter of the American Revolution? |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:09 PM Author: twisted library You should tip them something that would work out to $10 per hour at a cheap place and $20-25 at a classy restaurant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087051) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:15 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife $10 per hour seems high. Walmart cashiers make about $7 an hour here....waiters deserve perhaps a 25 cent per hour premium above that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087105) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:23 PM Author: ocher frum point psychic the nice thing about waiters being paid well is that the shitty ones get fired quickly because restaurant owners know there's going to be someone better available to take their place immediately.
does it piss you off that the construction worker holding the SLOW sign is making $20 an hour? |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:28 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Government contractors are grossly overpaid. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087259) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:22 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike if it's a federally funded job, it's closer to $30 in some areas. and, yes, that pisses me off. the prevailing wage rules for government contracts are retarded. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6111256) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 1:22 AM Author: Vibrant mildly autistic chad But that's the point though - you CANNOT control the price of your meal based on your satisfaction. You literally MUST tip at least 15%, and add more if you think the service is good. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6090413) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 7:29 PM Author: arousing home where did all these jews come from? if xoxo'ers all really were from the t14 like they pretend to be, NYU would clearly be the #1 represented school. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6087269) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 8:53 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Sad how so many posters here have a typical 'wealthy' attitude - I guess that's what happens when their parents paid for their college, law school, cars, rent etc. They just don't know the value of money. It's real easy to throw it around and act all benevolent when you've never struggled for a dollar in your life.
For those of us who worked our own way through undergrad, worked through law school (or took out massive loans), and have lots more hard work to look forward to in life, it's clear that we understand that there's no way we're going to start throwing our hard-earned cash at waiters just because of some society 'norm' (which, incidentally, is about as 'norm' as two months' salary on an engagement ring - just another fabrication from an interested industry as a whole).
No, as someone who has poor parents, someone who had to work for everything I've got etc., I'm fucked if I'm going to start tossing my money away at lazy waiters with a sense of entitlement. Look, fuckers. I earned my money. You start earning yours. Nobody threw me fifteen percent, and I'm not throwing 15% at anyone else.
You don't like being a waiter because us mean customers don't line your pockets? Fuck off out of the industry and get a real job.
After reading the responses to this thread, I've come to the conclusion that if a waiter really, really, really works for me, I'll consider a 15% tip maximum. None of this 20%, 30% crap - you're a waiter, not a fucking doctor, and you'll get paid commensurate to your station in life. I worked for my station as a lawyer, and I expect to be paid for it. All you did to get your job was put on a pair of pants and leave the house.
But my main conclusion is that waiters are so greedy that they generally deserve nothing. $2 per hour is about what they're worth - a five year old can 'walk' and 'write' enough to do a waiter's job. The industry's issues are not my issues, and for as long as the industry maintains the status quo, I'll keep using it to my advantage.
WAITERS - DIRECT YOUR FRUSTRATION AT NON-TIPPERS TOWARDS THE INDUSTRY. DEMAND A WORKING WAGE. Don't expect me to subsidize your lifestyle choices. You want my salary? Then get your ass into higher education for seven years and plunge yourself $100K into debt. Then I might throw you a bone.
I spent $60 on eating out this evening. I spent $0 in tips.
I might feel more compassionate towards the poor cooks who actually have some skills - they deserve tipping sometimes for a perfect meal. Waiters - all you do is carry plates. You are retarded. A trained dog could do your job, and I'm not joking about that. So could a $50 robot. I'll tip you when you reach under the table and give me a happy ending - that's good service. But for not screwing up my order and smiling? Don't expect to get paid for that.
Assholes.
What's the old saying? "A fool and his money are easily parted."
Sounds like tipping in a nutshell. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:17 PM Author: Milky Center if you encounter any financial success in your life (which is highly unlikely considering your attitude and background), you're going to be ashamed that you ever thought like this.
successful people do not want to associate with a person like you, who is a cheap-skate in their personal life. your big mistake is you're equating the way a person tips with their general plan of personal finance or the way they do things in business. people who can truly afford a restaurant tip properly and enjoy a meal with their friends or family for the company and the food.
people like you are unable to understand that. if you can't tip properly, you should be at a cheaper restaurant. cool it with the sense of entitlement because you "had to work" and go to sbarro. fortunately for me, my parents and grandparents worked and work hard so that I have been able to have great experiences. They know the proper way to act and have imparted that on me. Frankly, I wish I could pity you, but I can't - you have no desire to learn how to break from the cycle of poverty and act like a person with class, dignity, and wealth. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:36 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market OK. You're flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088299) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:40 PM Author: Milky Center nope. i just don't have sympathy for poors who try (and fail) to mask their jealousy of the wealthy.
instead of telling the waiters to work harder if they want more money, maybe they should have told that to their parents. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:41 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse In the presence of others, I either hide the receipt (so no one knows my tip) or I tip according to social custom. If the firm is paying for it, I follow custom as well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088331) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:23 PM Author: Carmine Patrolman you are a true dirtbag, congrats. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089331) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:31 PM Author: Cobalt international law enforcement agency gas station I'm poor, I'm a waiter, and I'll eventually be a lawyer. Judging by how things are working out so far for me, as well as my inherent intelligence, good manners, and striking good looks, I'll be very successful. A lot of waiters are actually working towards some sort of educational goal, and because the job is a lot harder than retail, we get paid more. I do like being a waiter, and it is good for now. For the most part, the customers do line my pockets, but only when I do a good job. It's not as if we are actually making $10 at a time constantly. Sometimes, from 4-6 and from 9-11, we don't get any tables. That's fine. However, since it all evens out in the end, we get a reasonable wage.
I don't really understand the bitterness though. I'm sure you worked hard to become a lawyer, and kudos to you. You deserve it. Along those lines, it makes little sense to be so angry at a profession you find to be below you. Cheers. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:09 PM Author: Obsidian property toaster (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088630) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:24 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse Interesting. It sounds like eventually you'll be earning more than me. Given this, according to onehell you should be tipping me when I eat in your restaurant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088803) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:26 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "A lot of waiters are actually working towards some sort of educational goal"
that's nice. the government can subsidize you through perkins and stafford loans. i'm not going to.
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:03 PM Author: Obsidian property toaster
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:10 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing It's a fine line between being prestigious and being a douche. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088117) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:20 PM Author: Obsidian property toaster (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088187) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:32 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing Onward and upward. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088266) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:12 PM Author: Cobalt international law enforcement agency gas station Haha, that's gorgeous.
But in case it's not a flame, I'll just go one by one:
1. We work more than 1-2 minutes per table. Probably more like 15-20 because of the backroom stuff. 2. Yeah, a trained monkey could probably do it. The best waiter I know is a GED pothead skater. 3. There's no nobility in tipping 20%, I agree. 4. We aren't spitting or jizzing in your food. We neither have the time, nor is there any reward in it. You probably wouldn't notice anyway. 5. We are always mocking you if you're being a dick. 6. My staple of the poor lifestyle is saving up for a NYC housing and the first two months rent incase the loans take too long, so I too can become "prestigious". 7. Regardless, malt liquor is damn tasty. Plus, drinking it on the corners certainly scares the squares. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 9:03 PM Author: Ivory Passionate Temple Idea He Suggested I turned the OP's post into a flame on craigslist.
tytyty |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:07 PM Author: nudist double fault It was alluded to in one of the rants, but the original calculations of hourly earnings are WAY off.
I was a waitor for a few years in high school/college. I made $4-5/table times 5 tables WHEN IT WAS BUSY. The rest of the time I was making $4-5/table times 1-3 tables, and was required to spend time I wasn't directly waiting on tables doing other cleanup and maintenance work. Only really shitty restaraunts just let their waitors dick around by the hostess stand like union workers.
MOST IMPORTANT ERROR IN OPS FLAME: I also worked about an hour before we opened and 30-45 minutes after closing time to get things set up and break things down. I got paid like $3 to do that. That can bring down your average a lot over a 7-8 hour shift. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:26 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage "$4-5/table times 5 tables"
WTF?
5 per table times 5 tables?? Wtf does this even mean?
5*5 = $25 TimesTables. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 1:18 AM Author: nudist double fault I'll spell it for you.
Four to five dollars per table times five tables which is about twenty-five dollars per hour when we are busy. When we are not busy, it was four to five dollars per table times one to three tables, so it ranged from five dollars per hour to fifteen dollars per hour.
HTH. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:36 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Again, you should get tipped for what you do for ME not what you do for the restaurant.
ONCE AGAIN, if you've got a problem with your wages, complain to the restaurant owner. Then enjoy unemployment when he or she finds someone who will work for $2.00. There's plenty of them. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 1:20 AM Author: nudist double fault I didn't say I agree with tipping. ONCE AGAIN, I am just showing you how your figures are completely off. IMO, tipping is not the most efficient means of ensuring proper service. However, you overstate waitors' wages by a lot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6090391) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:22 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "I also worked about an hour before we opened and 30-45 minutes after closing time to get things set up and break things down. I got paid like $3 to do that."
take it up with the management. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:20 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage Date: June 27th, 2006 5:42 PM Author: boredhub
"You tell me that if I don't like your tipping rules, then I should not eat out. Well, in reality, I'll keep eating out and tipping you what I like -- if you don't like *my* tipping rules, then perhaps you should not be a waiter?"
No waiter is going to like *your* tipping rules, so if everyone tipped like *you*, there would be no waiters. So yeah, in the end, you would end up with your fatass at home eating a take-out, washing your own dishes and cleaning up your mess.
Of course, MOST people tip either well, or decently. If you tip this way, you can't be a regular at any place because you'll be immediately subjected to substandard service and given attitudes for being a cheapass classless poor. Even if you aren't poor, that's what you'll come across like, because it's mostly poors that have that kind of class. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:35 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: No. If waiters don't like my tipping rules, then they can fuck off out of the profession. Their job will be instantly filled by any number of immigrants who are grateful for $2.00 per hour.
If waiters expect tips and people don't give them, chances are the greedy waiters with this odd sense of entitlement (for doing nothing more than walking and writing the wrong thing down) will be out of jobs. There will still be waiters. Just lower paid.
A waiter deserves less than minimum wage. They don't do anything worthwhile for society, and they need zero skills. A fucking apeman would be a good waiter. You need less skills than a person who digs holes for a living.
Don't glorify your position - it's about as low as you can go. Don't like it? Go elsewhere. I'd be happy for my food to be served to me by an immigrant who can't speak a word of English. They'd do an equally good job. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:40 PM Author: Milky Center >>"I'd be happy for my food to be served to me by an immigrant who can't speak a word of English. They'd do an equally good job."
your last 2 sentences just prove that you've never been to a nice restaurant in your life.
or that you're a flame. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:40 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing OK, this has to be flame. Even poors aren't this stupid.
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:32 PM Author: Flesh trust fund I am much too lazy to read the intellectual masturbation going on in the rest of this post. But I hope someone has mentioned the fact that waiters have to "tip out" the servers and chefs in many restaurants (in other words, they give them part of their tips). Also, while waiters are paid by the hour, most restaurants under-report waiters' hours. When you combine these two things with taxes, the result is basically that waiters take home what they get in tips (in other words, their hourly pay is eaten up by these other expenses).
Waiters at an OK restaurant can take home maybe $100-200 worth in tips per night. If they worked 5 nights a week, 48 weeks a year, that's 24,000-48,000. In other words, crappy-to-median money with no benefits.
So don't complain, jackass.
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:38 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: I'm not complaining It's the waiters who are complaining. $24-48,000 per year is GOOD for their skill level.
What do they expect? A high paying job with zero education? They don't exist in the real world. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:43 PM Author: lavender judgmental genital piercing Who are the waiters complaining about being underpaid? As far as I can see, people have been arguing against your idea that servers are massively overpaid. No servers have been complaining about not getting enough, they're just defending waiters from the uninformed bullshit you've been putting out here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088991) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:44 PM Author: Milky Center actually, you are complaining. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088994) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:40 PM Author: Appetizing aggressive station background story they do not deserve 48K. also, many restaurants offer benefits, so stfu. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6088951) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:06 PM Author: Carmine Patrolman VERY few waiters make $48k. Having a system where a few do and good service is usual is not a bad system. Do you really think that if every waiter made $18k service would be good? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089175) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:21 PM Author: Appetizing aggressive station background story no. but many make FAR more than 48k at good restaurants in urban areas. [hot] cocktail waitresses make even more.
i know for a fact that at the cheescake factory in chicago, most waiters make around 50k their first year (not that it would increase much after this).
but i'm kind of tired of the spend free attitude towards this service. tip, but not too much. many people who have average or below average incomes don't realize that they are tipping someone nicely 'because it's the classy thing to do' who is likely making more per hour than they are.
this tip lifestyle to service people is going too far. look at the tip jars at starbucks. no, i will not fucking tip you for doing your job. thanks. i know this is different, but this will extend further still. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 12:01 AM Author: Flesh trust fund I agree with you on the Starbucks thing. Coldstones does this too, as do a lot of other places. It's annoying. People who work behind a counter don't get tipped. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089665) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:58 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage Subject: Boredhub, you're either flame, or a complete moron "Don't glorify your position - it's about as low as you can go. Don't like it? Go elsewhere. I'd be happy for my food to be served to me by an immigrant who can't speak a word of English. They'd do an equally good job."
If they don't speak English, how do you expect your order to be accurate or the server to know when you're unhappy about something or when the meal is fucked up, cold, overcooked, etc? How are you going to deal with all the little issues involved? How will you ask questions about items in the menu if the server doesn't speak a word of English and has little to no social skills? That's what the server is there for, to make sure you're happy throughout your meal, and if they can't understand you and you can't understand them, there's no way you'll be able to communicate what you want or what you're unhappy about.
If you end up overcharged, with a meal that sucks, with slow service and having to wait an extra hour because the person misunderstood (or didn't understand at all) what you said because they don't speak English, then you'll spend an hour or two waiting for your meal, and you'll happily pay your $5 bucks for it. I'm sure you're in the minority of people in thinking this way. Which makes me wonder if you actually dine out at all. Sounds like you don't and are talking out of your ass. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 10:58 PM Author: Carmine Patrolman The Anti-Tipping gimps on this thread are low class pieces of shit who are too caught up in their own misguided arrogance to realize the what theyre doing.
Most waiters dont make shit. Just bc they bank for a couple of hours on the weekends doesnt mean they make a lot of money per hour. As has been mentioned, they have to give away a lot of their tips to busboys/hostesses etc. If they really made a lot of money, a lot more people would be waiters. The few that do make a consistently good living work at the best, expensive restaurants. If you dont tip at the best place in town, you are a cheap bastard who should order takeout from Papa Johns. Do you also slime out of paying covers for bars?
The true irony is that if we did away w/ the 'Tipping System' and paid waiters $6/hour, service would be ATROCIOUS. You (and I) would beg for the system to return. Good restaurants wouldnt exist. And if you really want that to happen, you know that being the 1 cheapskate in 20 isnt going to change a goddamn thing. So you are just looking for a freeride. This type of mentality eventually bites people in the ass though so you will get whats coming to you.
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:41 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "The true irony is that if we did away w/ the 'Tipping System' and paid waiters $6/hour, service would be ATROCIOUS. You (and I) would beg for the system to return. Good restaurants wouldnt exist."
Really? Are you saying that waiters make the equivalent of $6/hr now? Assuming restaurants paid the equivalent in salary of what waiters make now, why would service be atrocious? Would you employ waiters that provide atrocious service? I know I wouldn't.
Is your service atrocious at other establishments that don't rely on tipping? |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 2:35 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "The true irony is that if we did away w/ the 'Tipping System' and paid waiters $6/hour, service would be ATROCIOUS."
the management would pay their servers the minimum necessary to run a successful business.
"good restaurants wouldnt exist."
they manage in other countries. there are no tipping restaurants in the united states. they manage. apparently the french laundy and per se aren't exactly mcdonald's.
"And if you really want that to happen, you know that being the 1 cheapskate in 20 isnt going to change a goddamn thing."
that's why we need to recruit more people on internet discussion boards. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:26 PM Author: Excitant area main people some of the people speaking badly about waiters in this thread should try working in a high-end restaurant sometime. you think biglaw is hard? try working doubles 3 days in a row and working 50 hours a week. you haven't experienced real stress and physical labor until you've worked as a waiter. servers make $2.15/hour before tips. anything less than 15% is only warranted if the service is poor, the server is genuinely unenthusiastic/rude, etc.
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:32 PM Author: heady institution voyeur Before we get into the discussion, I don't know if it's wrong to be cheap, but it seems clear to me that the OP is trying to justify his cheapness.
Now then, waiters do not make minimum wage before tips, they make less. Also, realize that almost no one gets paid exactly for every minute worked. In a typical job, somone works maybe 50-70% of the time, and gets paid for being at work the whole time. A waiter is different he gets paid for the work he actuall performs, not on an hourly basis. If he sat around hald the time, he shouldn't get $30 per hour. However, if he does sit around half the time, he will get half that. In any case, I don't see too many waiters out there flashing their bling. Perhaps they don't make THAT much?
Edit: and let's not forget that waiters have to tip the cooks and the bus boys. |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:41 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Yeah, lower-middle class people usually aren't "out there flashing their bling" regardless of their profession. The point is that giving a waiter lower-middle class wages is overpaying him. He's in a low class profession and should be compensated accordingly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089495) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:45 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle misunderstood kitchen "He's in a low class profession and should be compensated accordingly." Wow, you sound like such a pretentious piece of trash. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089537) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:54 PM Author: Carmine Patrolman no, upper class people - even pretentious people - recognize the necessity of tiping. hes just a poor piece of shit who hopes that LS will make his uppermiddle class dreams come true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089613) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:52 PM Author: Carmine Patrolman paying them < lower-middle class wages = horrible service. dont fuck up restaurants for everyone else. good restaurants will not exist w/ $5/hr for waiters. nobody makes what they 'deserve' so thats a moronic point. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089599) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 1:58 AM Author: Stirring shrine knife What else are they going to do with themselves? They're worthless people with no skills, so they'll just end up finding a way to live on less money since they still won't have any better options. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6090718) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:37 AM Author: Carmine Patrolman Im not the one advocating change. The waiters future career is not what Im worried about anyways. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091880) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:43 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market Abolishing tipping would not "fuck up restaurants for everyone else." The restaurant can pay whatever they need to to hire qualified servers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6094424) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:39 PM Author: dashing coffee pot bawdyhouse Dude, waiters get shitty wages, and all tips are also split between busboys and washers, so you get maybe like maybe a third of tips left by the client. And waiting is a shitty job, it's pretty hard to be on your legs all day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089478) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:42 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife UH OH, MAYBE SOMEONE SHOULD HAVE TRIED A BIT HARDER IN SCHOOL IF THEY DIDN'T WANT TO BE ON THE BITCH RUNG OF THE ECONOMIC LADDER! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089509) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:46 PM Author: dashing coffee pot bawdyhouse How is this relevant? My point is that contrary to the OP's perception waiting is not overpaid. You still get shitty pay, unless clients leave like 25%+ tips or unless you work in a very exclusive restaurant (or both), and that's just not gonna happen to everybody. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089549) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:58 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Not shitty enough pay. Even the self-interested douche waiter on this thread claims he makes $15-$20 per hour. While that is shitty pay, it's still too much. Around $7 per hour is fair for good service, and I tip accordingly by using the following equation:
# of minutes spent on my table / 60 * 7.00 = tip |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 12:04 AM Author: Carmine Patrolman you are a fucking idiot and a chep bastard. buy a digornios and avoid going out all together. a uniform $7/hr pay would put an end to good restaurants. maybe you just eat at TGIF and you have no idea what im takling about, but if you eat at real restaurants and have a brain you should be able to figure out the consequences... you also know you arent changing anything by being a poor, youre just passing the cost on to other people. do you steal magazines bc they dont deserve $4.95 per issue? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089697) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 12:14 AM Author: Carmine Patrolman N for No Response (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6089797) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 1:59 AM Author: Stirring shrine knife Clever. Try living in real life, then you won't have to repeatedly refresh a thread hoping someone replies to it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6090735) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 1:23 AM Author: nudist double fault You're such a moron. I already demonstrated how that formula does not compute properly because of time spent INDIRECTLY on you while you are not there by setting up your table and cleaning it after you leave.
Also, $15-20 was PRECISELY right for my work. When I worked in the kitchen, I made $12/hour, and waiting tables was much more tiring and more stressful. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:23 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike bullshit. the tip-out isn't 2/3 of your dips. quit making shit up, you retarded gayskunk. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091995) |
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Date: June 27th, 2006 11:53 PM Author: Charcoal Up-to-no-good Masturbator "Hey, sealclubber. Know where I can find some information on how to act like a cheap cunt fucking scuzzball?" As a matter of fact, I know this thread you can read... |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 1:25 AM Author: nudist double fault Seriously. I mean I personally don't agree with the idea of tipping. Waitors should be paid a flat rate by the restaraunt which is counted in your bill just like the cooks and the dishwashers, and the restaraunt should just fire the ineffective waitors. However, being that this is NOT how the system is, I'm not going to dick some poor guy out of his rent money just because I agree with the system.
GOI. Maybe you'd get laid. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 4:41 AM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage "Seriously. I mean I personally don't agree with the idea of tipping. Waitors should be paid a flat rate by the restaraunt which is counted in your bill just like the cooks and the dishwashers"
If that happened, the prices for dining out would skyrocket & some restaurants would close because they would make hardly any profit and/or the quality of the staff would decline.
"and the restaraunt should just fire the ineffective waitors. However, being that this is NOT how the system is, I'm not going to dick some poor guy out of his rent money just because I agree with the system."
You're right. It's not the waiters' fault that this is the system. They don't make that much money really, so why would people like the OP punish them for the system? If you tip them 7 dollars, they would tip part of it to the bussers/runners, and end up with such a crappy salary that they would not be able to afford a living.
The OP is just a bitter idiot who has no clue what he's talking about. He's obviously never been a waiter and doesn't understand that nobody would put up with such a job if it didn't pay. Much easier to be in retail and other hourly paid jobs where you can sit or hang out for hours and your salary is always consistent. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:04 AM Author: trip church messiness too bad you can't change the system isn't it.
perhaps, instead, you should advise your waiter/waitstaff of your opinion of them prior to them serving you. Let them know you think they are an idiot, low-class and undeserving of a living wage. This would go over particularly well in fine/elgant dining, where service is 9/10 of the experience. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 4:36 PM Author: tantric self-absorbed dog poop In fine dining, you find service to be 9/10 of the experience?
You must have crappy taste in restaurants. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 4:43 AM Author: pungent fragrant windowlicker tanning salon **sharts all over this thread** (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091672) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:44 AM Author: Impertinent Brethren Box Office 800 posts and not one (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091829) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:46 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "The Ever-Expanding American Restaurant Tip" http://www.slate.com/id/2073161/
By Sara Dickerman Posted Tuesday, Oct. 29, 2002, at 5:46 PM ET
It's no secret that waiters and cooks don't always get along—our mutual dependence leads to mutual resentment. Waiters always seem to be letting hot food languish in the pickup window, while cooks always growl when a customer has a special eating request. But the main reason for this animosity is that waiters get tips and cooks generally do not. Waiters seduce customers with our food, so there's nothing harder than mopping the floor at the end of the night and watching them count tens, twenties, and hundreds.
Part gift, part sales commission, and part salary, the tip is a peculiar artifact. The etymology of the word is in dispute, although the most oft-quoted story (and likely a spurious one) is that jars were conspicuously placed on the tables of 18th-century British coffeehouses "To Insure Promptitude"—shades of the good-karma cups that have so inflated the cost of a cup of coffee in the past few years.
The tip and its symbolism are at the heart of Hey, Waitress! America From the Other Side of the Tray, Alison Owings' book of transcribed oral biographies of waitresses. She has interviewed a fascinating roster of waitresses: one who worked at the Greensboro, N.C., Woolworth's lunch counter during the 1960 sit-in; a union firebrand; and another who was the first woman to serve at La Côte Basque. Owings is a non-waitress herself, and there's a strange, admiring exoticism filtering though the work. Nonetheless, the interviews give a good sense of the complexities of the waiting life, particularly the fickle tip. In the words of Frances Donovan, an early-20th-century sociologist quoted by Owings, tipping is "the gambling factor in the life of the waitress."
Gambling is the right reference. Every night in a restaurant is a turn at the craps table. You simply never know whether people will actually show; whether they'll spend money; and whether they'll have a good time (a surprising number of people who eat out seem to dislike food). And then there's the cash. Few legitimate businesses pay employees with so much cash. In the words of one interviewee, a former waitress with a Ph.D., "there are all kinds of perks and hidden exchanges of money. … I never felt as rich as I did as a waitress."
But here's where some of my tip jealousy is unfounded: The cash comes at a price, of course. "The last thing they want is a decent meal, you know," says one of her interviewees, of the customers who eat out as an exercise in being served. Many of the waitresses in Owings' book jokingly make the link between waiting tables and prostitution. Debra Ginsberg, whose memoir, Waiting: The True Confessions of a Waitress, captures the tart tone of the restaurant business even better than Owings' book, writes that "the server is, effectively, the customer's private dancer for the two hours he sits at her table."
Tips might come rolling into a waiter's pocket, but they are constantly leached out as well. All the other cogs in the restaurant machine expect a little trinkgeld, too. In the same voluntary-involuntary way a customer tips a waiter, a server might whittle away nightly profits by giving 15 percent to 20 percent to the busser, 5 percent to 10 percent to the host, 5 percent to 10 percent to the expediter, and buying drinks for the kitchen. (We are easily appeased.) Or tips might be pooled by management and redistributed equally among all the servers (a system that invariably pisses off the seasoned waiter who's expertly coaxed a table into ordering a $200 bottle of wine). Of course, the biggest drain of tip income comes from the IRS. Tipped employees are subject to a different minimum wage than everyone else in the country: It varies state to state, but the federal minimum is $2.13 per hour. While waiters are supposed to report all their tip income, the IRS double-checks their math based on the restaurant's sales. Once Social Security and Medicaid are withheld, waiters often get $0 pay stubs—even after two weeks of double shifts. Stiff a server and you're not denying her a perk, you're denying her regular income, and you're making her pay taxes for it, too.
For all the hand-wringing about how much to leave, tipping is less of an incentive for good service than we think. While big and tiny tips stand out, it's hard to tell exactly what a moderate tip, say 17 percent, is communicating. Plus, tipping after a meal is not the best way to guarantee good service during it. In theory, the promise of a tip works to the advantage of diners, who reward attentiveness and punish indifference.
But not according to Cornell Hotel School Associate Professor Mike Lynn. For one thing, he has determined that between 20 percent and 25 percent of the dining population are "flat tippers" who don't take the bill size into account when they add a gratuity. Furthermore, his meta-study of tipping studies shows that the correspondence between tips and consumer satisfaction with service is minimal. (A typical study, conducted at the Chili's chain, revealed that some customers who rated the service as poor to fair left 20 percent tips, while some satisfied customers left chintzy tips of 7 percent or 8 percent.) What a tip does seem to evaluate, however, is the diner, and how much she or he cares about what the server thinks.
Lynn has also performed a cross-cultural study of tipping and national personality traits. Americans tip more often than others because we're more likely to be extroverts and/or neurotics, he suggests. Extroverts tip because they like the attention, while neurotics tip to reduce their anxiety and guilt about being served.
This line of reasoning might explain why tips have gone up over the past couple of decades—the average is now somewhere around 18 percent in metropolitan areas. Perhaps some of the rise can be attributed to Americans' exploding interest in food and dining; maybe it's also because service has actually gotten better over the years. But Lynn surmises that if we tip for the approbation of the person who is serving us, and "an average tip doesn't get that approval or attention," over time the definition of a generous tip must grow.
There are rare exceptions to the tipping status quo. At Chez Panisse, where I once worked, the service fee is included in the tab, and the wait staff is paid a good wage, plus benefits. At the tapas restaurant where I currently cook, the waiters are also paid more than minimum wage, and tips are pooled (as are duties—cooks serve customers at the bar) and shared equally among everyone, even the dishwasher. Both restaurants display uncommon accord between the front and the back of the house. These experiences make me inclined to argue for a regime change in the restaurant world, shifting the onus of paying servers decently from the customer to the employer. A service charge would be added to the bill, making the tip unnecessary. This system has worked in Europe for years.
But the change won't happen anytime soon. Restaurant associations will continue to lobby to underpay employees, waiters will continue to want the cash, and customers would continue to tip above the service charge. According to Owings, tips "turn each of us from customer into employer, whether we want the job or not." In some way, I think we do want the job. Going out to eat in America is an escape because we momentarily try on certain undemocratic principles, including snobbery and classism. Part of the ritual pleasure of dining out is the potlatch effect—the show of power through giving (witness the end-of meal credit-card fight). It might be that we crave the tip as much as the crème brulée.
For years, Sara Dickerman worked as a restaurant cook; she is now the food and dining editor at Seattle Magazine.
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Date: June 28th, 2006 7:52 AM Author: pink sanctuary pistol i tip well when my waiter isn't some punk kid who's trying to earn some spending money, and when the service is poor i neatly stack a pile of coins so that the waiter knows i'm being spiteful and didn't just forget to tip (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091835) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:32 AM Author: lascivious overrated ceo (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091875) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:43 AM Author: pink sanctuary pistol i'd tip you more for providing me with that paragraph of reading material than for cutting me or one of my friends off to ask if we needed our drinks refilled (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091885) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:27 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "I can tell you almost everyone leaves about 20% tip."
i'm going to start stiffing waiters.
"and there's hardly a clear rationale for why someone gets tipped."
sounds like a good reason to stop tipping. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:55 AM Author: lascivious overrated ceo OK, Spartacus, start your revolution of non-tipping. Just be sure to explain your reasoning to your friends, future dates (as if!), and firm partners should you ever go to lunch/dinner with them. I'm sure they will find your logic brilliantly compelling and question why they didn't think of the idea themselves long ago. You will stand forever as a shining beacon of common sense atop the eternal pyramid of intellectuals. You shall be praised every June 28th as members of the upper-middle class recognize the day you delivered them from the tyrrany of voluntarily paying tips. And lo, after your death, the thankful masses will extoll your virtuous defense of 15% of their disposable income by showering your grave every June 28th with the money they saved dining out. Sadly, at night fall poors will raid the cemetary for the precious coins which they will use to purchase King Cobra malt liquor libation which they will consume until they uncontrolably urniate on your tombstone. And I bet their balls will smell real bad too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6092164) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 4:37 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Why would he explain his reasoning to companions? I've found that it's best to just no-tip by stealth since the economic surplus is captured without any of the associated social costs. On occasions where stealth no-tipping is impossible, a tip can be left begrudgingly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6095381) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 6:24 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike correct. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6096200) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 6:19 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "Just be sure to explain your reasoning to your friends, future dates (as if!), and firm partners should you ever go to lunch/dinner with them."
they'll never know. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:04 AM Author: racy university Let me throw this out in this monster of a thread:
The tipping system penalizes big tippers and subsidizes the meals of non- or small tippers. This is not a fair outcome. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:06 AM Author: Impertinent Brethren Box Office how are big tippers penalized? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091845) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:10 AM Author: pink sanctuary pistol if you were any dumber you'd have to wear a helmet (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091846) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:15 AM Author: Impertinent Brethren Box Office jew. i denounce your actions and those of your people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091851) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:06 AM Author: Massive electric love of her life i agree that the tipping system sucks. i got great service in Europe where i didnt have to tip and the food was more expensive. but our system isn't going to change. your individual refusal to pay a tip isn't going to change anything, talking about it on an anonymous message board isnt going to change anything, and talking about it in real life wouldnt change anything (and youd look socially inept to boot). its an accepted part of dining out in the US, and if you don't do it you're just riding the system for free. just quit acting like you're taking a huge stand and affecting some socioeconomic change to justify your cheapness. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091844) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:29 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike our system will change if you just stop tipping. it's as simple as that.
it won't take a large number of tipping dissenters before the system starts to crumble. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:16 PM Author: trip church messiness you wish. you stop tipping, you start getting shitty food and bad service.
in europe, col is lower and wages for servers are higher. ends are met. not so here.
nice try though. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:30 PM Author: Mahogany Swashbuckling Casino I doubt it. Tipping has skyrocketed in recent years compared to what it used to be. If anything more people are tipping more and more. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6094311) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 4:56 PM Author: Massive electric love of her life how exactly do you plan to get a significant number of restaurant patrons to stop tipping? most non-tippers in this thread have admitted themselves that they hide the receipt around coworkers or dates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6095510) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:34 AM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: STANDARD WAITER RESPONSE = IT'S EVERONE ELSE'S FAULT Hey waiters -- why are you universally the only people in the tip debate who consistently say "it's the system", and wash your hands of all responsibility for changing it?
Why should I, as a diner, go along with a broken system that unjustly rewards the waiters? (I don't. I just don't tip when it's not warranted, which is most of the time.)
If you don't like it, waiters, don't take it out on me. Don't sit back and fuss at how tight I am. Why don't YOU do something about it?
But no. You don't want to change the system because right now, it's a MONEY TREE for you. That's why you like the tip system.
Here's a tip for you - get some skills and make your service worth something. Dance for me. Perhaps a funny five minute comedy routine. Paint me a picture. Do my taxes. Then I might tip you. But for 'writing five words' and 'walking to the kitchen', how on earth can you justify that as being worth more than your base pay? |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:35 AM Author: lascivious overrated ceo Um because their base pay is $0.00? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091878) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:30 AM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike if we stop tipping, that will change. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6092030) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:35 PM Author: Carmine Patrolman No it wont, so many restaurants fail as it is. If they start having to pay waiters an hourly wage even more will fail. And waiters who get an hourly wage will give awful service bc they will have zero incentive to do anything more than the bare minimum. Not an attractive scenario. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6094357) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 6:22 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike first, quit being stupid. they already pay an hourly wage. i was humoring you by going along with your $0.00 nonsense. second, they can increase wages with food cost increases or service fees. third, many restaurants fail because they suck. why do we want to support shitty restaurants with a generosity subsidy? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6096177) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 10:46 PM Author: Carmine Patrolman 1) Its not even 1/2 min wage, we both know by 'hourly wage' were talking about eliminating tips and getting a flat per hour pay.
2) Hourly wage or automatic service fees eliminate any incentive for a waiter to give a shit
3) Plenty of restaurants already fail (90% w/in 3 yrs). The tip system allows restaurants to have a couple slow nights w/out hemorraging even more cash. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:32 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "2) Hourly wage or automatic service fees eliminate any incentive for a waiter to give a shit"
they don't like getting fired; that's an incentive. there are automatic service fees at high end restaurants (e.g. per se in nyc and the french laundry). no tipping is compatible with other performance-based incentives funded by the restaurant.
"3) Plenty of restaurants already fail (90% w/in 3 yrs). The tip system allows restaurants to have a couple slow nights w/out hemorraging even more cash."
why would i care if a bunch of shitty chinese buffets and taco stands go out of business? |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 8:42 AM Author: amber slippery address feces Just out of curiosity: How many of you are posting from work? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6091883) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:52 AM Author: nudist double fault 1 fucking 80 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6092151) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:45 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market I am, but I'm not getting any credit for it (i.e. I'm not on the clock). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6094439) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:25 PM Author: Mahogany Swashbuckling Casino it would be one thing if this was just a "I don't agree with tipping" thread, but the thing that irks me is the passive aggressive faggotry that underlies this entire thread.
If you don't tip me, whatever, I don't give a shit, plenty of people are going to tip me and tip me very well.
And the funniest thing about this whole economic argument that waiters are grossly overpaid, if they were, wouldn't there be a massive oversupply of potential waiters, just hoping to get one of these ubersweet jobs? Yet its notoriously difficult to keep a stable waitstaff. Isn't the market creating a fairly stable equilibrium, or if anything waiters might be underpaid. If you want to fill a law job there are 21394876 qualified lawyers jumping at the chance. If you want to fill a waiting spot then you ahve a shit ton of underqualified high schoolers and maybe 1 person who could possibly maybe be decent. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:50 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market How long does it take restaurants to fill open waitstaff positions? My guess is not that long.
Anyway, the "passive aggressive faggotry" is going both ways on this thread.
It's funny how half the posts, on both sides of the issue, are about how the other side is made of of "low-class poors." |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:54 PM Author: Mahogany Swashbuckling Casino it depends on how yo uwant to fill teh staff. If you need to fill a staff really fast, then the only way to do it is just hire a shit ton of people. The vast majority won't work out, but you will find a few here and there that happened to be okay.
But restaurants don't want to do it this way because in the "sifting through" phase you end up really getting a bad rep. What you want to do is what they do in every other line of work, and hire people who you are pretty confident will do a good job, and this is nearly impossible unless your restaurant is known for having servers walk out with a shit ton of cash at the end of the night. In general its easy to fill a staff, but extraordinarily hard to fill a staff well. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:57 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market So, are you saying it takes more time or less time to hire a server than, say, an associate at a law firm. Because, unless it takes longer, I can't imagine how your analogy to law firms suggests that there are not a lot of people seeking waiter jobs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6094526) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 3:10 PM Author: Mahogany Swashbuckling Casino the length of time just depends on the amount of peperwork and how thorough of a search you want.
Sure there are a lot of people seeking waiter jobs, but the vast vast majority of them are going to be AWFUL. If you want to have a good waitstaff it takes forever and waiters are much more likely to quit and have to be replaced or do something and get fired.
There is an oversupply of shitty waiters and and undersupply of decent or good waiters. The problem is that there is no defeinite qualifications required for being a waiter, no way to prescreen individuals out. You can usually tell from an interview who will be good and who won't but that doesn't change that all these shitttastic fucktards are still going to apply. Imagine if you didn't have to go to law school or pass the bar to be an attorney and anybody could just apply. Then you'd have 123980479219038749273 applying. It would still be equally hard (if not harder) for lawfirms to find who they want, but it would seem as though "hey they could entirely replace their entire staff in a manner of minutes."
Look at it this way, if you were a lawyer and quit today it would probably take you a few months to find a job. There are so many openings for good waiters everywhere that I could call my job, quit right now and have another job in 30 minutes because there is an intense demand for experienced waiters. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 4:09 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "the length of time just depends on the amount of peperwork and how thorough of a search you want."
That seems to imply that the pool of applicants is equally robust.
"Sure there are a lot of people seeking waiter jobs, but the vast vast majority of them are going to be AWFUL."
And this differs from the legal market? |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 2:57 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: You are a moron: >>>>>And the funniest thing about this whole economic argument that waiters are grossly overpaid, if they were, wouldn't there be a massive oversupply of potential waiters, just hoping to get one of these ubersweet jobs?<<<<<
Moronic statement of the thread award for this comment. Waiters are grossly overpaid relative to their skills and value to my eating experience. That doesn't mean they are grossly overpaid relative to all professions.
So for all jobs where the employment ad states "retarded people welcome to apply - just so long as you've got two legs and one working hand", yes, waiters are overpaid.
Still crappy wages overall though. But then again, that's what you get when you work in the least-skilled job in the United States. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 3:00 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market Your response was much worse than his post. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6094558) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 3:13 PM Author: comical really tough guy menage It's clearly not the least skilled job. In some cases it requires a good deal ok skill. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6094666) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 4:00 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: There are no skills required. Walking to the kitchen is not a skill. Nor is filling up my glass with water. Nor is writing my order on a check (which is often screwed up). Nor is guessing what I like and don't like.
There's one skill a waiter needs - ESP. Then they could read my mind and give me a good suggestion for a wine or a meal. Otherwise, their suggestions are simply uneducated guesses. They don't know what I like and what I don't like, so how dare they make suggestions about what is 'good' and what isn't, then expect a tip for that 'service'. I don't need their opinions. I just need them to take my order to the kitchen and bring me my food.
Besides, it's common knowledge that waiters push the food the kitchen needs to get rid of (since plenty of a restaurant's profits are eaten up through waste), and they push high dollar drinks to boost up the price of meal so they get a larger tip.
Listening to a waiter recommend anything is like listening to a mechanic telling you your car needs a new serpentine belt or a transmission flush - they are counting on the fact that you don't know any better and will go along with their sales pitch and spend the money. Waitstaff are salespeople, not food and wine experts. They cannot be trusted. They don't have your best interests at heart when they serve you. They just want the biggest tab so they get the biggest tip.
Thus there are no skills needed.
If you would care to list the skills that are needed, I'll go through them one by one and explain why they are not needed in order to increase my eating experience. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 4:16 PM Author: trip church messiness "If you would care to list the skills that are needed, I'll go through them one by one and explain why they are not needed in order to increase my eating experience."
How about you list the skills that aren't needed, since your inexperienced insight seems to exceed the experience that the servers (and simulatenous law students) on this board fail, in your mind, to validate. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 5:10 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: The sign of a failed position in an argument is when that person merely reflects questions back and the winning party instead of providing an answer.
I eagerly await your list of skills.
Or are there none?
And I tried to list some skills that waiters have that aren't needed (not including basic human skills like walking, being polite, and carrying things), but I can't come up with any - waiters generally have no skills. I guess if I could find one that wasn't needed, then they'd have negative skills?
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Date: June 28th, 2006 5:39 PM Author: nighttime frisky volcanic crater market "How about you list the skills that aren't needed"
boredhub is pretty much an idiot. But your post made him look smart. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 12:20 AM Author: trip church messiness you're right...it was poorly worded. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6099176) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 4:45 PM Author: comical really tough guy menage Actually eat at a nice plce then come back and tell me no skill are needed. I'm sure your TGIF dining experience isn't blowing you away, but even those waiters have to memorize the menu, be polite to assholes like you etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6095431) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 5:28 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Here's some "skills" 1. Walking. 2. Carrying things. 3. Doing what you're told without question. 4. Writing orders down. 5. Opening a bottle of wine. 6. Filling up a cup. 7. Cleaning up crumbs. 8. Talking. 9. Smiling.
You need nothing more than this to be a perfectly good waiter.
BUT the strange thing is that these are skills that are expected in any job in the world (except cleaning up crumbs and opening a bottle of wine). My clients don't tip my receptionist for smiling and greeting them. I don't tip a bank teller for doing what I ask her to do. I don't tip the pharmacist when he walks to get my prescription from the shelves in the back. So why on earth are these considered extras for which I should pay for when I eat out. Failing to do them should be grounds to have pay docked. In any other industry, people who don't do those things are fired. Why are waiters different?
Now, here's some skills I could use in a waiter:
1. Spending 5 years in a kitchen learning how to cook properly. Nothing bothers me more than a waiter describing a sauce completely wrong, or a cut of meat wrong, or crap like that. I don't claim to know everything about food, but when there's something I don't know on a menu and I ask and they give me an answer that's wrong, I'm pissed when I order that item. And I don't want to have to wait while he runs off to the kitchen to ask, and still gets the answer wrong.
2. Perhaps speaking at least one European language, preferably French. I can't stand it when I entertain French clients in some of the so-called 'good' restaurants and I end up acting as a god damn translator. I know of one great restaurant I inevitably take French clients of mine simply because there's two waiters who are fluent.
Both of these skills are worth a tip, since it's really over and above (like, far far far over and above) what I normally expect.
But don't bullshit me that waiters need skills that are worth beyond minimum wage. It automatically puts you on the 'stupid' list with them. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 12:26 AM Author: trip church messiness You are right, this is basically what a server does, and somewhat what basically anyone in customer service does. However, the difference - and what I would argue is the true art of a good server - is the ability to develop and utilize perfect time management to coordinate these, and other tasks (such as "reading" your table and checking on them at the right moment...perhaps a little of the "esp" you mentioned in another post).
Without time management, there IS no service...just long moments of empty water glasses, an unfulfilled desire for another glass of wine or a missed movie because the server couldn't speed things up or get to you FIRST because s/he couldn't manage the other 5 tables' needs as well.
This may or may not desert the tip in and of itself, but it may make or break someone's dining experience...and if *that* person is already thinking of gratuity, it could make or break *that* tip. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 3:16 PM Author: Mahogany Swashbuckling Casino you've never taken an econ class huh? A job is always considered overpaid or underpaid based on the surplus or shortage in the labor supply.
also, I've seen a ton of very otherwise intelligent people who totally fucking suck at being a waiter. You have to do 1245123 things simultaneously and keep a very good mental record of what's going on at all your tables all the time to do the job well. The vast majority of work a waiter does for a table is behind the scenes, not while he/she is sitting there talking to you. The better you do your job, the less you time you actually ahve to be at the table. If you anticipate the customer well, know how to read them and plan accordingly you can provide the customer with as little or as much "face time" as they want. Some customers want you to be basically invisible except for order, refill, clean table/check, close out. Others want to talk to you about all kinds of shit,s ome related to the food, others like where you went to school, etc. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 4:02 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: You have to do two things simultaneously Walk and carry something. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6095078) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 4:05 PM Author: Mahogany Swashbuckling Casino look, whatever dood. You clearly know nothing about what it actually takes to be a waiter. You arguing about this is sort of like a waiter arguing about what its like to be a lawyer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6095102) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 5:13 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: I was a waiter (during school) for four years. In a nice place. Like, where the cooks actually learned to cook properly and quality people ate.
Thus I speak from experience when I say that my tips were utterly undeserved. I was happy to take them, but I never made any representations to anybody that I was anything more than a plate carrier.
I liked the money, yes. I didn't deserve it. I didn't earn it. And now that the shoe's on the other foot, I don't want to pay people like I used to be to do something that shouldn't be paid for. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 12:50 AM Author: trip church messiness Your experience may validate your feelings, but it doesn't validate what servers, in general, experience.
Speaking from my experience, I work my ass off. I am the dishwasher, the bartender, the expo, the host, the to-go specialist, and the server at my restaurant (I haven't left for ls yet.) I clean up the kitchen after the cooks leave, including all the mess they make. I have 10-15 tables at a time, ranging anywhere between 1 and 15-20 people. I'm lucky if I have 2 other coworkers working with me (besides the cooks.) We have an "owner" who is rarely there, and she insists her job is NOT to help us out. It's a good thing I'm in shape or there is no way I could physically handle my job.
This is quite different from my experience at a popular corporate burger chain, where I barely lifted a finger for a tip. But I also made very little in comparison.
Every server is different. Every restaurant in different. Generalizing servers is a lot like generalizing lawyers. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 5:28 PM Author: red stage "Waiters are grossly overpaid relative to their skills and value to my eating experience."
somebody should alert the market that it is henceforth to operate in accordance with boredhub's subjective evaluation of skills and personal value rather than supply and demand |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 5:36 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Somebody should alert you to the fact that I'm not asking the market to do anything.
Nice try though.
I guess you tip 20%. You sound that stupid. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 5:39 PM Author: red stage i tip yo' momma about 8 inches (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6095872) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 6:28 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "the funniest thing about this whole economic argument that waiters are grossly overpaid, if they were, wouldn't there be a massive oversupply of potential waiters"
there is. but restaurants have already cut their costs as much as they can. restaurants can't take advantage of the surplus because the minimum wage laws don't let them cut their wages any further. and that also means that workers who would otherwise be doing more productive things are attracted to serving by artificially high incomes.
"Yet its notoriously difficult to keep a stable waitstaff"
intra-industry churn explains a lot of that. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 4:59 PM Author: adventurous brunch turdskin Subject: I know waiters that clear $100,000 Gibsons in Chicago. Bar none has to be the easiest place in the world to make 6 figures. Chop House in Ann Arbor isn't much different. I knew waiters at both that banked and banked. I wonder if they have their own bulletin board where they discuss the T14 restaurants and their chances of landing a BIGFOOD job if they aren't in the top 15% of their training class. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6095543) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 6:32 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike long hours and demanding customers in BIGFOOD. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6096271) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 6:31 PM Author: Floppy hyperventilating place of business Wow, I can't believe this thread is still going. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6096265) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 10:30 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike it's like tipping: it should have ended long ago but no one can figure out how to stop it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6098182) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 10:51 PM Author: Tan orchestra pit haha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6098355) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 9:29 PM Author: Tan orchestra pit i think it's pointless to argue about tipping in normative terms, with the tippers and nontippers yelling you-should-you-shouldn't back and forth. tipping is strictly a matter of preference, and each has every right to tip according to his personal feelings.
but on a purely descriptive note, we might point out certain utilitarian aspects of the act of tipping/withholding tip. one, it's clear that people who tip (like myself-i tip generously) do gain satisfaction from the act, which contributes significantly to the pleasure of the meal experience. particularly when dining on special occasions (birthdays etc), the meal is meant to have an air of celebration, abundance, magnanimity, etc., and it caps off the meal nicely to know that you're improving someone else's day. for those of you who obsess over prices of entrees, and order the $26 hangar steak instead of the $39 filet mignon, or skip appetizers, or whatever, and go to painstaking lengths dissecting the bill with your friends to make sure you don't overpay $2, fine, we grant that it doesnt make utilitarian sense for you to upset yourself again over an avoidable expensive gesture. i'm not going to tell you that you 'should' go to a cheaper restaurant, cause hey, i don't give a shit. i might only advise you that it's much more satisfying to go to a restaurant where you can afford to be loose with your money and still fall within your budget.
however, you don't really have much ground to argue that the waiter /shouldn't/ complain, or lobby through whatever means he has to create a culture of high tipping, because of course that's in his own interest. the live-and-let-live attitude has got to go both ways. likewise, you nontippers must also accept the loss of personal respect from tippers such as myself. that loss of respect would manifest itself in various forms of minor disutility. the nontipper might respond by associating only with other nontippers, so as to preclude this particular type of disutility; he would then suffer the disutility of losing potentially productive contact with the tipper personality type, which in my experience and humble opinion, includes much more worthwhile human beings than the other group.
the bottom line: let's not argue about this. you nontippers think you're more rational and economically sensible than me, that's fine. rest assured, i'm quite confident that you're all probably base, vulgar, unpleasant niggards. but hey, to each his own. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 10:27 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "clear that people who tip (like myself-i tip generously) do gain satisfaction from the act, which contributes significantly to the pleasure of the meal experience"
do you think that people in countries that don't tip enjoy their meals less?
"the bottom line: let's not argue about this."
there are benefits to arguing about it. the more people are persuaded not to tip, the lower the expected disutility from not tipping becomes. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 10:45 PM Author: Tan orchestra pit i don't know whether people in countries that don't tip enjoy their meals, but this is totally academic and irrelevant. what's important is that tipping helps me enjoy my meal more, and apparently lots and lots of other people also, so that's why I'll/we'll keep tipping.
"the more people are persuaded not to tip, the lower the expected disutility from not tipping becomes."
this is extremely revealing of the whole point of this argument. people like you feel scummy when you don't tip, so you'd like to convince the rest of us decent people to modify our behavior so you feel more normal. slim chance, niggard, i'm pretty confident that society's going to keep on tipping and leave you in the miserly minority.
again, i'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't do, i'm just describing the state of affairs |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 10:58 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "people like you feel scummy when you don't tip"
uhm, no. not tipping isn't the problem. retribution is the problem. not tipping and experiencing no retribution is good.
"i'm pretty confident that society's going to keep on tipping and leave you in the miserly minority."
that's fine. the benefits of freeriding are probably greater than the benefits of a system in which everything stops tipping. but both of those possibilities are superior to the current tipping system. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 11:06 PM Author: Tan orchestra pit if you're alright with freeriding or not tipping without retribution, more power to you. you're not going to experience any retribution from me, except that if i knew you personally, i wouldn't respect you, and i'd feel a good deal of moral superiority to you. but of course this probably doesn't matter to you, so everything's square.
i personally like the current tipping system, and since it's not going anywhere, i don't really feel the need to defend it further to you.
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Date: June 28th, 2006 10:50 PM Author: Carmine Patrolman "tipping is strictly a matter of preference, and each has every right to tip according to his personal feelings."
not at all. $2/hr is illegal.
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Date: June 28th, 2006 10:58 PM Author: Tan orchestra pit i share your moral sentiment with regard to tipping
what i meant is that we can't really impose our values on nontippers. i don't think these selfish misers are really concerned about waiter's lifestyles; they argue that the waiters should just pick a different line of work. |
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Date: July 20th, 2006 5:52 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse "you nontippers must also accept the loss of personal respect from tippers such as myself."
Thanks for stating the obvious. The answer is no (or low) tip when alone (or when you can mask that you're paying); and tip when the tip observable (or if the meal is being charged to a client).
The retards who are arguing moral obligation are wrong. There's no obligation to it. The people who get 'utility' from tipping are retarded too, but with any luck they'll end up bankrupt.
Maybe one day we can fight this ignorance, and the high tippers can be held in distain. |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 10:32 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike we should also end tipping because it reinforces racism. the impetus for race differential treatment from both minority customers and servers would be reduced if we ended tipping. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6098197) |
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Date: June 28th, 2006 11:52 PM Author: Turquoise Rigpig Shitlib One thing that hasn't been pointed out is that if you leave NO tip, then the waiter who likely has to tip out some % of your bill, will actually LOSE money for waiting on you. For instance, where I waited tables we had to tip out 5% of our total sales @ the end of the night. Hence, if I had waited on whomever it was that said he didn't tip on a $60 check, I basically would have been paying $3 for the privilege of having him occupy one of my tables for an hour. Obviously, this is grossly unfair to the waiter.
Just tip. Don't be a dick. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 3:56 PM Author: Stirring shrine knife Awesome, this really drives home how bad I'm pwning all these waiters. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6104020) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:17 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "if you leave NO tip, then the waiter who likely has to tip out some % of your bill, will actually LOSE money for waiting on you."
what does that have to do with racism?
and if they lose money on one table, that's ok. they make money on other tables. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 1:05 AM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage Subject: Boredhub, you're either flame, or a complete moron (Reposted) You avoided responding to my post. Why? Because you can't. You're completely full of shit. And even if waiters are overpaid, why do you need to be here fighting about it? Because you don't want to throw $20.00 bucks at someone who waits tables in the US, where the system is what it is? They will be on top of you throughout your dinner to make sure your food is timely, make sure you get your drinks on time and get a new drink whenever you want, return your food if there's something wrong, clean after you, clear your plates, accomodate your needs, get you condiments and other shit, etc. Why do you care about the skills? It's the work that is paid, not the "skills." I mean, what skills does a garbage collector need? Pick up trash and throw it in the truck. So they should make 3 pennies an hour? Fuck off, dickhead.
I mean, you were a waiter yourself, fag! You took all the money, a bunch of 20% gratuities. You're a full of shit hypocrite. If you're against the system, you should have never worked in the system.
This is the post you ignored because you're obviously fucked up in the head and can't reason any better. Idiot.
"Don't glorify your position - it's about as low as you can go. Don't like it? Go elsewhere. I'd be happy for my food to be served to me by an immigrant who can't speak a word of English. They'd do an equally good job."
If they don't speak English, how do you expect your order to be accurate or the server to know when you're unhappy about something or when the meal is fucked up, cold, overcooked, etc? How are you going to deal with all the little issues involved? How will you ask questions about items in the menu if the server doesn't speak a word of English and has little to no social skills? That's what the server is there for, to make sure you're happy throughout your meal, and if they can't understand you and you can't understand them, there's no way you'll be able to communicate what you want or what you're unhappy about.
If you end up overcharged, with a meal that sucks, with slow service and having to wait an extra hour because the person misunderstood (or didn't understand at all) what you said because they don't speak English, then you'll spend an hour or two waiting for your meal, and you'll happily pay your $5 bucks for it. I'm sure you're in the minority of people in thinking this way. Which makes me wonder if you actually dine out at all. Sounds like you don't and are talking out of your ass.
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Date: June 29th, 2006 9:47 AM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Oh my, you are stupid >>>>>You avoided responding to my post. Why? Because you can't.<<<<<
No. I didn't respond because I don't spend every waking hour looking at this thread. Perhaps you should get a life instead of refreshing the page every five minutes to see if I've answered you.
>>>>>They will be on top of you throughout your dinner to make sure your food is timely, make sure you get your drinks on time and get a new drink whenever you want, return your food if there's something wrong, clean after you, clear your plates, accomodate your needs, get you condiments and other shit, etc.<<<<<
Maybe one in ten waiters does this. The rest scribble an order down wrong. When I order a steak, nine times out of ten they don't ask how I want it cooked. They just move on to the next person and I have to interrupt them and tell them how I want it cooked. Nine times out of ten, when I'm ordering a la carte, they assume that as soon as I've ordered one vegetable, I'm done ordering. Again, I have to interrupt them to complete my order. Nine times out of ten, my food is prompt. But I guarantee that every time I politely inform the waiter that I need to be out of the restaurant for an important meeting, they promise to have the food up as quick as possible, but then stick the check in their pocket and I see them wandering around the restaurant filling up cups of water and taking other orders before handing it to the kitchen. When I (rarely) complain that there's something wrong with my food, the waiter often feels like he's the first line of defense for the kitchen, and he explains to me that my steak (not that I always get steak - it's a convenient example) is actually cooked the way I asked it, and then I have to cut the thing to pieces to show them that a medium rare steak isn't meant to be brown all the way through. They forget basic requests for condiments, drinks, and anything that they don't have to write down and hand to someone else.
>>>>>Why do you care about the skills?<<<<<
I don't care about them. A waiter needs no skills, and generally has no skills. I respond to posts that claim that waiters do have skills - they don't.
>>>>>It's the work that is paid, not the "skills."<<<<<
MY POINT EXACTLY. Re-read the opening post. I illustrate that for the work the waiter actually does for me, the tip is grossly out of proportion.
>>>>>I mean, what skills does a garbage collector need? Pick up trash and throw it in the truck. So they should make 3 pennies an hour? Fuck off, dickhead.<<<<<
They are given an hourly wage, and have the same skill level as waiters. Like waiters should be paid an hourly wage. Garbage collectors don't expect a tip for 'carrying my trash' and 'saying hello'. These basic things are expected in all other professions. Waiters somehow think that 'doing their job' is an optional extra for which the customer should pay a premium.
>>>>>I mean, you were a waiter yourself, fag! You took all the money, a bunch of 20% gratuities. You're a full of shit hypocrite. If you're against the system, you should have never worked in the system.<<<<<
What a stupid conclusion you draw. I know when I was a waiter, I took all the money. Because it was free money given by idiots for me not doing anything. Why would I not take it? My point is that since I know how undeserving most waiters are of even $2.00 per hour, I am reluctant to pay them a tip. The other point is that the system is grossly in favor of the waiters. You'll note that they're the only ones who don't want the system changed - guess why? Because it's lots of money for little work.
>>>>>If they don't speak English, how do you expect your order to be accurate or the server to know when you're unhappy about something or when the meal is fucked up, cold, overcooked, etc?<<<<<
I expect them to perform as well as an English-speaking waiter, who also can't take an order accurately.
>>>>>How are you going to deal with all the little issues involved?<<<<<
Like 'More water please?'
>>>>>How will you ask questions about items in the menu if the server doesn't speak a word of English and has little to no social skills?<<<<<
Most restaurants - even the 'better' ones, have simple to understand menus. If I have a question about something above and beyond the text of the menu (which I can read, by the way, and don't need a waiter to explain), I'd prefer one of the chefs to give me thirty seconds of his time to explain. In many a fine restaurant, this is not a problem. It also gives me a chance to size up whether the chef is competent (rarely) or incompetent (common, so I order the unscrewuppable items).
>>>>>That's what the server is there for, to make sure you're happy throughout your meal, and if they can't understand you and you can't understand them, there's no way you'll be able to communicate what you want or what you're unhappy about.<<<<<
You're absolutely right. So why do 99% of English-speaking servers appear incapable of this?
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Date: June 29th, 2006 12:38 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage Subject: You're an idiot Date: June 29th, 2006 9:47 AM Author: boredhub Subject: Oh my, you are stupid
>>>>>If they don't speak English, how do you expect your order to be accurate or the server to know when you're unhappy about something or when the meal is fucked up, cold, overcooked, etc?<<<<<
"I expect them to perform as well as an English-speaking waiter, who also can't take an order accurately."
****Just because you "expect them" doesn't mean they "will perform". Lol. You're retarded and will end up disappointed.
>>>>>How are you going to deal with all the little issues involved?<<<<<
Like 'More water please?'
God, do I even need to go to great lengths to explain to you that there's a lot more to dining than asking for water or taking an order, idiot? If your order is always taken wrong, you obviously only dine at crap places. Or maybe you don't dine and are making this up? Or maybe YOU were that crap server and are bitter about your experience? Sounds more like it! Everytime I go dining, I get my order right. They might make a mistake 1 out of every 15 times, and only if it's packed or the waiter is stupid, which is NOT the majority.
So get a life and stop whining online. If you don't want to tip, don't tip. The server's still going to make a good amount of money because most people tip more than 15% (yeah, I wait tables and actually, last night I made $200 for working 5 hours, and didn't get a single order wrong)
But after not tipping, you won't be able to come back to the same restaurant without getting crappy service and attitudes.
Most of your arguments are as idiotic as the "more water please?" example. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 1:17 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: More self-pwnage from you >>>>>God, do I even need to go to great lengths to explain to you that there's a lot more to dining than asking for water or taking an order, idiot?<<<<<
GIVE ME A GOD DAMN EXAMPLE THEN! Don't keep throwing out these "waiting tables is so complicated you need a PhD to do it" arguments. Give me an example that involves something above and beyond walking, carrying, writing, cleaning, and smiling.
Name me one.
And then justify why I should pay you extra for it. (Hint - unless it's something I need, then don't include it).
>>>>>If your order is always taken wrong, you obviously only dine at crap places.<<<<<
Or perhaps I regularly dine at places where an order is more complicated than "I'll have the Appleby's house sirloin please".
>>>>>Or maybe YOU were that crap server and are bitter about your experience? Sounds more like it!<<<<<
No. Doesn't sound more like it. When I was a server, I knew that servers, via tips, were getting waaay overpaid for the work they did. I admit I was. But I did well financially. But since I know first hand that waitstaff - even at the great restaurants - are nine times out of ten inexperienced idiots, I don't want to tip them. Yes, I was happy to take tips when I was a waiter because I was on the receiving end of the deal. The customers were on the rip-off end of the deal. Now I'm a customer. I feel no desire to be ripped off.
>>>>>Everytime I go dining, I get my order right. They might make a mistake 1 out of every 15 times, and only if it's packed or the waiter is stupid, which is NOT the majority.<<<<<
Yet you still tip them when they screw up your order? When the place is packed and they spend 30 seconds at your table?
>>>>>So get a life and stop whining online.<<<<<
Now whining from me. The only whiners here are the waiters who feel that it's their god given right to rip off customers.
>>>>>If you don't want to tip, don't tip. The server's still going to make a good amount of money because most people tip more than 15% (yeah, I wait tables and actually, last night I made $200 for working 5 hours, and didn't get a single order wrong)<<<<<
You are a moron. You've just explained how much money servers make from tips. You made $200 in 5 hours. That's $40 per hour. Which proves my point precisely - for unskilled manual labor, you should be at $7.00 per hour, not $40.00 per hour.
>>>>>But after not tipping, you won't be able to come back to the same restaurant without getting crappy service and attitudes.<<<<<
And you prove that waiters have a ridiculous sense of entitlement and feel that 'good service' (a/k/a normal manners and work ethic at any other job in the world) should be rewarded, and that if they're not paid for that 'good service', then they can show disrespect for the people keeping the restaurant afloat.
How would you treat your secretary if, when not given a gratuity of $10.00 for offering a client some coffee and showing him where the bathrooms were, she decided that the next time you had a meeting with that same client, she'd ignore him, insult him, and spit in his coffee?
You'd fire them in an instant. But hey, it's okay to act like this because *you're* a waiter...
>>>>>Most of your arguments are as idiotic as the "more water please?" example.<<<<<
And since you haven't offered any counterarguments, then I've won. Don't bother responding because each time you do, you actually support my side of the issue.
Thanks for playing though, and have a nice life.
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Date: June 29th, 2006 1:41 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage Subject: You pwned yourself from your first post You know, you're a waste of time. I already proved how you're an idiot in thinking that a non-English-speaking immigrant would be able to do the job to which you responded nothing except "More water please?" Is that all you need throughout your meal? Water? Then you obviously haven't dined in your life.
Also, waiting tables SUCKS. I wouldn't do it if it weren't for the $$. So regardless of the skills, it's a job that sucks and nobody would do it if it paid $7/hr. I'd much rather do retail and not be under that kind of pressure. Or office work where you can sit and drink coffee and make $8/hr.
"And since you haven't offered any counterarguments, then I've won. Don't bother responding because each time you do, you actually support my side of the issue."
Actually, I wrote about how you wouldn't be able to communicate with an immigrant if your food came out fucked, if you're allergic to something and need to explain it, if you want to modify an item, if you want to ask if the meal has a particular condiment, etc. YOU didn't offer any counterargument except your stupid "More water please?" so no, you don't win by being stupid. You've been the idiot since this thread started. And even if you stop tipping, servers will continue to make good money, no matter how many hours you spend enraged about it and bitching online.
I think you need to get a life and forget about waiters' salaries. I mean, there's lots of professions in the US that are overpaid. If you're focused on the "lowest" of all, as you call it, you're a moron with no life and with too much time on your hands. Get a fucking life, pathetic prick. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 3:03 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: And the self-pwning of uramoron continues... >>>>>Then you obviously haven't dined in your life.<<<<<
Are you from the 1920s? Nobody 'dines' anymore, as if a meal out is some kind of unique special occasion feast.
>>>>>Also, waiting tables SUCKS. I wouldn't do it if it weren't for the $$.<<<<<
Again, self-pwnage. You are admitting that you're just like me (and every other waiter) - in it for the money. So it must be good, right? For the amount of work and the difficulty?
>>>>>So regardless of the skills, it's a job that sucks and nobody would do it if it paid $7/hr. I'd much rather do retail and not be under that kind of pressure. Or office work where you can sit and drink coffee and make $8/hr.<<<<<
So would I. But you admitted you're getting $40.00 per hour. Don't even try to tell me that it's underpaid. Don't even try to tell me that you're actually worth $40.00 per hour.
>>>>>Actually, I wrote about how you wouldn't be able to communicate with an immigrant if your food came out fucked, if you're allergic to something and need to explain it, if you want to modify an item, if you want to ask if the meal has a particular condiment, etc.<<<<<
You mean you offered the counterexample of 'speaking English' as a way to justify tipping? Didn't you read the hint I gave you in my earlier post? Why should I tip you for speaking English? I don't tip the 300 million other people in the US because they have this extreme, unique skill of 'speaking English'.
>>>>>You've been the idiot since this thread started. And even if you stop tipping, servers will continue to make good money, no matter how many hours you spend enraged about it and bitching online.<<<<<
Yes they will. So you've lost by default. You've offered no reason why I should tip. In fact, you're encouraging me not to tip by telling me that you're well-paid and will continue to be well-paid as a waiter.
>>>>>You're a moron with no life and with too much time on your hands. Get a fucking life, pathetic prick.<<<<<
What a witty, cutting reposte. Yes, an anonymous person called 'uramoron' told me I'm a prick. I guess he's correct.
What are you? A Jedi or something? Telling me with your special 'waiter mind control' that I should be doing something else with my life? |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:20 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "It's the work that is paid, not the "skills." I mean, what skills does a garbage collector need?"
so then why not pay the same work with the same pay? they don't do more work to serve me a $75 wine instead of a $30 wine. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 10:51 AM Author: red stage is this the longest non-game thread in xoxo history? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6101405) |
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Date: July 1st, 2006 7:05 AM Author: rambunctious contagious filthpig i think it may be the longest "serious discussion on just one topic that didnt get derailed by 200 tangential posts" thread ever. congrats boredhub! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6117198) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 1:59 PM Author: Garnet indirect expression mother Subject: For boredhub How are you with the ladies? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6102923) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 3:06 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Pretty damn good, actually. Married, but in my day, I snapped plenty o' panty elastic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6103557) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 2:15 PM Author: Canary Useless Brakes Subject: New question I don't understand how waiters are taxed on tips? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6103059) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 3:10 PM Author: trip church messiness because it's income - the federal government requires all employed citizens to pay taxes on income. As a result, corporate restaurants assume all servers make a certain amount, even if the didn't - a result of the *federal government's* "tips" program.
andecotal story for the point: there were often times that I was taxed on more than I made because I either didn't make that much or tipped out so much that my end-amount of income was less than the amount the feds required me to claim (via the computer / pos - point of service - terminal).
another reason why not tipping a certain minimal amount screws your server over financially.
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Date: June 30th, 2006 9:53 AM Author: dark vigorous site I'm sure there were also plenty of times that you made more than the 8% you reported on your taxes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6109701) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:39 PM Author: trip church messiness Yes, but its robbery, not to mention illegal, to be taxed on income you did not earn, yet not illegal for ME due to the fact that the federal government established a policy requiring me to be taxed on SALES, not income.
I'm not saying I shouldn't be taxed on income I made. But how "fair" is it to tax someone on income they did not earn? |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:48 PM Author: flirting ticket booth boiling water You're not taxed on income you didn't earn. At the end of the year, you still fill out taxes like everyone else. If they took too much out, you get a refund. If you didn't pay enough, you have a check to write.
"the federal government established a policy requiring me to be taxed on SALES, not income."
That's just a reporting mechanism. You still get to fill out your 1040 at the end of the year like everyone else. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:49 PM Author: Canary Useless Brakes The government assumes a tip of 8%? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6112589) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 4:06 PM Author: flirting ticket booth boiling water http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/industries/article/0,,id=98401,00.html
As an employer, you must ensure that the total tip income reported to you during any pay period is, at a minimum, equal to 8% of your total receipts for that period.
In calculating 8% of total receipts, you do not include nonallocable receipts. Nonallocable receipts are defined as receipts for carry out sales and receipts with a service charge added of 10% or more.
When the total reported to you is less than 8%, you must allocate the difference between the actual tip income reported and 8% of gross receipts. There are three methods for allocating tip income:
Gross Receipt Method Hours Worked Method Good Faith Agreement Employers can request a lower rate (but not lower than 2%) for tip allocation purposes by submitting an application to the IRS. Detailed instructions for computing allocation of tips, reporting allocated tips to employees, and for requesting a lower rate can be found in the Instructions for Form 8027.
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Date: June 30th, 2006 4:16 PM Author: Canary Useless Brakes Thanks (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6112862) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 2:51 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage Subject: Waiters pay "You are a moron. You've just explained how much money servers make from tips. You made $200 in 5 hours. That's $40 per hour. Which proves my point precisely - for unskilled manual labor, you should be at $7.00 per hour, not $40.00 per hour."
Yeah, fuck, but that's not every night. Last night was packed as hell and I had around 15 tables at a time. We were 2 servers in a pack restaurant where the avg per customer is $55. You think anyone can juggle 15 tables at the same time? No. I can do this after 2 years of experience. The first year you're clueless and can juggle 4-6 tables. Only after some experience can you do more than that, and yes, you deserve the $$ for working your ass off in those 5 hours. You're not sitting on your fat ass answering the phone, you are actually WORKING your ass off, making sure everyone's happy, making no mistakes, refilling 30 glasses of wine/water/soda/martinis, etc.
You're so full of shit. If you don't like to tip don't dine out and refill your own glass of wine and wash your dishes. Nobody is asking you to dine out. If you don't like the system, go dine in Europe. You're going to ripp off a server who makes $2 bucks an hour just because you think the system should change? You don't deserve them to give you good service either, so cook at home and clean your mess.
If you have a problem with their pay, speak to the restaurant owner and let them know THEY should pay the server, not you. Of course, you're a huge pussy and will rather sneak no tipping rather than stand up for what you believe. That's why you're here, in an anonymous board, stating what you think. In real life, you'll just pussy out of touching the subject with just about anyone because you know you'll get laughed at so you'll simply pay zero for someone who's cleaning after you and tending to your needs for FREE. At least be man enough to let the server know what you think before you rip them off, fatass. That way you'll get the service you deserve. You're basically ripping people off by being a dishonest fuck as you are. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 3:30 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: You're a glutton for self-pwnage punishment, aren't you? >>>>>You think anyone can juggle 15 tables at the same time?<<<<<
You worked for 5 hours. 15 tables at a time, each spending (max) 1.5 hours there. So you worked maybe 50 tables. Each with, maybe, two people per table. So you served 100 people. (Correct me if I'm wrong here).
Let's do more math. You say the average check per head was $55. So you sold $5,500 worth of food and drink. Yet you received only $200 in tips. That's an average tip of 3.6%.
Even if you served 50 people, your average tip was only 7.2%.
Are you a bad waiter? Or just a liar?
>>>>>No. I can do this after 2 years of experience. The first year you're clueless and can juggle 4-6 tables.<<<<<
I was 'juggling' 4-6 tables for maybe a month. Then I could handle more. It took you two years to 'learn' how to accommodate 4-6 tables? What a 'tard.
>>>>>Only after some experience can you do more than that...<<<<<
Yeah, like a week or two.
>>>>>and yes, you deserve the $$ for working your ass off in those 5 hours. You're not sitting on your fat ass answering the phone, you are actually WORKING your ass off, making sure everyone's happy, making no mistakes, refilling 30 glasses of wine/water/soda/martinis, etc.<<<<<
And digging ditches, you're also working your ass off. Do they deserve $40 per hour?
>>>>>You're so full of shit. If you don't like to tip don't dine out and refill your own glass of wine and wash your dishes.<<<<<
You miss one of my points. I don't automatically have to succumb to your waiter/restaurant financial lies in order to eat out. It's not my responsibility to support your family/spending habits. You, as a waiter, since you don't control MY purse strings, have to take what I decide to give you. If you don't like them apples, then you get out of the industry.
>>>>>Nobody is asking you to dine out. If you don't like the system, go dine in Europe.<<<<<
No. Again, you don't control the money here. I do. So you do what I say. If you don't like the industry, get out of it. I 'dine' to enjoy food. I don't 'dine' to finance you.
>>>>>You're going to ripp off a server who makes $2 bucks an hour just because you think the system should change?<<<<<
But it's not $2.00 per hour. It's far more.
>>>>>You don't deserve them to give you good service either, so cook at home and clean your mess.<<<<<
What a dumb comment.
>>>>>If you have a problem with their pay, speak to the restaurant owner and let them know THEY should pay the server, not you.<<<<<
No. I speak through my tips. I don't have to go out of my way to resolve what is essentially *your* problem. You speak to the owner.
>>>>>Of course, you're a huge pussy and will rather sneak no tipping rather than stand up for what you believe.<<<<<
I stand up for what I believe by not tipping.
>>>>>That's why you're here, in an anonymous board, stating what you think. In real life, you'll just pussy out of touching the subject with just about anyone because you know you'll get laughed at so you'll simply pay zero for someone who's cleaning after you and tending to your needs for FREE. At least be man enough to let the server know what you think before you rip them off, fatass. That way you'll get the service you deserve. You're basically ripping people off by being a dishonest fuck as you are.<<<<<
Your eloquence just adds to the strength of your argument. Until tipping is compulsory (it's called a gratuity for a reason), then I'm not doing anything wrong by not tipping. And the jobs of the waiter is a salesperson. Salesperson = perosn whose job it is to make someone else part with as much money as possible.
So who's ripping who off? (Hint - it's the guy with the gay apron and the notepad). |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 3:42 PM Author: Wild shaky state partner like taking candy from a baby, then beating it to a bloody pulp. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6103880) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 3:48 PM Author: Glittery school cafeteria pocket flask Subject: Sorry uramoron Distasteful as boredhub's position is, he's whipping your ass bigtime. Methinks law is not the best profession for you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6103934) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 3:51 PM Author: Garnet indirect expression mother Subject: Such douchey-ness Tipping is compulsory, except, I guess, for you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6103977) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 3:54 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Tipping is NOT compulsory If it was, then it would be added into the bottom line and I'd have no choice over it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6104003) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 4:04 PM Author: Garnet indirect expression mother It's a social compulsion, much like giving up your seat to a pregnant woman on the subway. No one is dictating to you that you MUST tip waiters, but the refusal to do so only reveals your complete douchebag status. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6104092) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 4:34 PM Author: Wild shaky state partner giving up your seat to a gregnant woman is the right thing to do, i.e. socially efficient b/c the benefit of the seat to her >>> benefit of the seat to you, and it costs you very little to give the seat to her.
On the other hand, the waiter is not so uniquely situated. My money is worth just as much to me as it is to him. If there is a social compunction to tip, then it is NOT socially efficient, it's just a wealth transfer.
Moreover, you shouldn't give up your seat for a pregant lady just b/c you're "socially compelled", you should do it b/c you think it's the right thing to do.
What makes someone a "douchebag" is to submit to "social compulsion" even if it conflicts with his personal beliefs. See Nietzsche. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 4:42 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: There's a huge difference as the poster immediately above illustrated.
Tipping is social blackmail - "If you don't pay me, I'll defile your food next time I see you or I'll insult you in public on your way out of the institution." |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 4:53 PM Author: trip church messiness I'll give you credit for your math. You have a point here for this specific example.
However, even 4-6 tables can be draining. Some chains have intensive policies that are enforced by secret shoppers and semi-annual reviews (read: you get fired/put on probation if you don't follow these)...for example
- greet table within 30 seconds - bring water at greet - offer specific alcholic bev's at greet - offer specific apps at greet - bring bread at next return - check back within 30 seconds - bring salds (that you make) within so many minutes...or soup - check back - bring out food within 10/20 minutes - check back within one minute - keep all bev's at least half full, offer add'l bevs if alcoholic - offer specific coffee/dessert and bring it within a certain time frame - drop check before first person finishes last bite
this is a combination of my and other's experiences, but it pretty accurately describes what a typical server at a good restaurant does. For 4-6 tables, this is difficult if you don't have good time management or if even one table is particularly demanding or even just talkative. Bring in other work you have to do (running food, helping others) and its a nightmare.
A week or two is less than most restaurants give you for training alone.
If you beleive that you dine out for food only, why don't you order your food to-go? No service needed, and you get the same food. If you "dine in" you are getting service - who is paying for that?
(^ especially in states where they pay below minimum wage, called a "server wage," where the feds expect tips to compensate for the wage difference? - you say they aren't being paid $2 an hour, but they are. For example in Tennesee, they are paid $2.13!!)
People stand up for what they beleive by boycotting the system - you are forcing your server to pay for their job (read previous threads regarding tip out and taxed income). I could geniunely understand if your service was poor, but adamently claiming that you will not tip someone for even a job well done only shows that you - even though you have experience - do not understand the system...one that is partially supported by our government, not only social standards.
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Date: June 29th, 2006 5:26 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Hmmmmmm An intelligent response at last. Still not correct though:
>>>>>If you beleive that you dine out for food only, why don't you order your food to-go?<<<<<
Because unless I sit outside on the sidewalk, the food has been sweating for 15 minute by the time I get it home. For McDonalds, this is fine. For anything that someone's bothered to cook from scratch, it's not. You get the 'same food', sure. But the quality is far less.
>>>>>If you "dine in" you are getting service - who is paying for that?<<<<<
No. I'm getting my food fresh. And I'm paying the cooks to do that. Waiters do nothing for the food itself. They bring it to me. That's worth, at best, maybe 25 cents.
>>>>>especially in states where they pay below minimum wage, called a "server wage," where the feds expect tips to compensate for the wage difference? - you say they aren't being paid $2 an hour, but they are. For example in Tennesee, they are paid $2.13!!<<<<<
No, with tips, they're paid anywhere from $25 (slow night) per hour to $100 (busy night in decent establishment) per hour. This thread is about how tips are unreasonably large compared to the work performed, remember?
>>>>>People stand up for what they beleive by boycotting the system - you are forcing your server to pay for their job (read previous threads regarding tip out and taxed income).<<<<<
Which, in turn, causes them to leave their job. Which, in turn, forces the restaurant to think about why it can't keep waiters, then think about raising its base wage and doing away with this ridiculous expectation of tips. And nobody knows what happens after that. It's never been done before. All this talk of restaurants closing en masse and meal prices rising through the roof is pure speculation. (Except that in the rest of the world, they seem to manage without US-style tips. Kind of suggests that tips are like the 'special undercoat' on a new car that dealers try to sell you - that is, a rip off).
>>>>>I could geniunely understand if your service was poor, but adamently claiming that you will not tip someone for even a job well done only shows that you - even though you have experience - do not understand the system<<<<<
Oh, I understand the system. I choose not to participate because I don't agree with it.
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Date: June 29th, 2006 6:59 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage LOL. How many monikers do you already have in this single thread? I notice like 5 people using your stupid ">>>>" and giving the same arguments you are. Oh, and they're also responding to posts directed at YOU, stating how you're "pwning" every poster that already pwned you. You're a pussy and you reveal it everytime you post. Be man enough to use one single moniker, and be man enough to speak up against something you disagree with. Boycotting the system? Give me a break. You're one in a million people who thinks this way. Only you and poors, uneducated and classless people think this way, so you see where you belong in this issue.
And if all you need is the server to bring your meal, then if you need water refilled or plates cleared, then get up your ass and go to the bar to get a new drink, and pick up your plates and take them to the dirty dishes tray, since all you need is your food to be served fresh.
Oh, and btw, I never said I had 15 tables every single hour. You're so stupid, if you were a waiter you should know better. The beginning of the night is slower, when it peaks you have tons of tables, at the end you have less too. But I work my ass off all throughout. There's lots of sidework involved.
You think you're pwning everyone, but in truth, you're pwning yourself by starting a thread like this and using different monikers to show how "you're right."
LOL. Servers will continue to make great money regardless of one idiot's opinion, and you'll get crap service everytime you return to a restaurant you already visited.
That's life. It's not fair? I'm sure you don't deserve your high salary either for doing your doc review. You deserve a paralegal salary until you do some actual work. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 12:36 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Sadly, it's just me. No monikers.
Perhaps you are the voice of everyone who disagrees with me? Such a claim would be outrageous, right?
Only an idiot self-pwns by using arguments that apply equally to his own position. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 4:15 AM Author: trip church messiness YOU are paying the cooks? Do you know what cooks get paid? For a head cook, about $25,000 (in Washington State: http://www.payscale.com/salary-survey/aid-10572/rid-79/fid-6886/RANAME-SALARY) - this breaks down to significantly higher than the minimum wage that servers get paid ($7.63). Do the math - a full time position at minimum wage makes a little over $15,000 (and we have the HIGHEST minimum wage for a server in the nation, so this is an extremely generous comparison.) Therefor, a cook is already being compensated for his extrenous work by the corporation through the cost of the menu items. So if you are paying for the cook's work, which is already compensated for more than your server, what are you not paying for?
The service, which includes the bartender (who makes your drink - did you order a glass of wine? The cook isn't selecting and preparing that for you!), the expo (who organizes your food and garnishes it with final touches - you think that cheese is places in your pasta by the cook? You should know better than that!) and etc (I haven't worked true "fine dining" so I'm sure there are more service points that assist your food experience.)
If your argument is that you are paying the cooks for your food, then you should also insist that you pay the respective preparers of the rest of your food. How do you plan on doing that when the cost of the food/menu item does not cover their wage, or at least in the way it covers the cook's?
Also, you are making a GROSS assumption that "waiters do nothing." At both venues I've worked at, I've prepared the salads and soups from scratch, expo'd the bar drinks, and at my current job been the bartender, etc (see another post for this.) All servers are not the same.
Your argument is that servers are overpaid. However, many servers are paid, like I said, $2.13. You argue that they are NOT paid this - they make 25-100 in tips. But that is not what their "wage" is. The argument is that tips are compensating for the lack of a decent wage in comparison to the work they perform. Are you going to argue they do not deserve to make a minimum, let alone living, wage?
And the expectation of tips is what keeps "us" going. It's what makes me want to BE and DO my best for every patron of my restaurant. I can tell you from experience that while I worked for a flat pay at a retail establishments, I had no motivation to work harder or better, except for in the situation where I could expect a raise/promotion. It is not a rip-off; it is incentive to both the customer (to expect the best service, or else) and to the server (to give the best service, or else). Europe does not need this because a server's wage is the incentive - promotion and raise is included in their pay, just like a "normal" job is in the States. Not so in restaurants in the United States. Apples and Oranges, really. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 12:39 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Yeah, but the point is your service is not worth $40 per hour. Which is what I give you when I tip 15% on a modest check.
Reduce the expected tip and I'll happily tip. Nothing makes me want to tip less than stories in this thread about waiters taking home $200 a night in tips after a 5 hour shift.
Sorry. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 2:21 PM Author: trip church messiness Where are you getting these numbers? I don't think my service is worth $40 an hour either.
$40 a night, yes. Maybe a little more. $50 a night would be great, and that is what I usually walk with.
I really wish you would stop making assumptions, because right now, you've proven yourself to be 100% wrong. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:35 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: You've jumped into a conversation that doesn't involve you One poster in this thread said that recently, he worked 5 hours and received $200 in tips.
$40 per hour.
How about you bother reading what we're discussing before offering your incorrect analysis? |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 6:56 PM Author: trip church messiness He said he worked 8 hours, with 170 at the most for his 8 hour shift.
"Douchbag? Ouch, that stings.
Here you go, so now maybe you can stop talking out of your ass.
Average shift: 8 hours.
Number of covers: 18
Average Sales per night: $1200
Tips: $150-200
Subtract a tip-out of 2.5% of my total sales, and I'm left with $120-170 per night. "
With 120 at minimum, he made $15-22 dollars an hour. NOT $40.
Maybe you should follow your own advice? |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:44 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "If you don't like to tip don't dine out and refill your own glass of wine and wash your dishes."
i think i can manage to pick the bottle of wine up from the table and pour it in my glass. and are you saying that we should tip the diswashers? |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 2:22 PM Author: trip church messiness no, because they are being paid more than servers respective to their required "skills."
Basically corporate is paying them what you aren't, but they are expecting you to pay the server what they aren't. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 2:31 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike running the business is their problem. i'm not the employer. i don't want to be the employer. and paying employee's the the employer's job. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6111870) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 5:52 PM Author: Beta business firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6105381) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 12:01 AM Author: Vibrant mildly autistic chad I agree with your observation about the difference between a good waiter and sucky one. But I feel that 15% should be the MAXIMUM (i.e. for excellent service - and this is scaled down accordingly till zero for sucky service), as opposed to 15% being the default for 'neutral' service.
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:40 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike why isn't 10% acceptable for good service? there are several countries in which that's considered a high tip. there's nothing magical about 18% to 20%. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6111379) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 7:20 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage Subject: One question to boredhub So when you don't tip, do you let the waiter know ahead of time the reason why you do it? I think it's dishonest of you not to. If you're seriously against the system, you should at least have the balls to let people know your point of view. Otherwise, the waiter will think that you're either poor, rude, cheap, or uneducated, like there are many people out there. It doesn't speak against the system, it speaks more about you than about your beliefs.
Don't tell me you're too much of a pussy to speak up? I mean, why would you bring this up anonymously on the Internet if you feel so strong about it? Why not to the actual waiter? Why anonymously and here? |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 12:45 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Because if part of the dining experience includes me educating the restaurant's staff, then perhaps the restaurant should pay me for my services instead? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6110982) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 2:47 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage How is giving your point of view "education"?
It's not. Waiters know how the system works in the US-- they know that good service is rewarded with a good tip, at least 95% of the times.
Having a single person who disagrees with the system voice their opinion to a server before the meal starts does not constitute education, as much as you wish it did. It's simply communication and honesty in your part. But surely enough, you're a dishonest fuck and no wonder you get bad service.
Your points are pathetic. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:32 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: You asked me to instruct the waiter as to why he screwed up. That is, educate him as to why his service was not up to scratch.
It's not my obligation, nor my responsibility, to do this. It's the waiter's responsibility, once he sees that he got no tip, to go to the manager and go over the reasons why he was not tipped so he doesn't make the same mistake next time.
Thanks for playing. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 7:53 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage Subject: BTW, is this what you call "pwnage"? "You think anyone can juggle 15 tables at the same time? No. I can do this after 2 years of experience. The first year you're clueless and can juggle 4-6 tables."
Your response:
"I was 'juggling' 4-6 tables for maybe a month. Then I could handle more. It took you two years to 'learn' how to accommodate 4-6 tables? What a 'tard."
So you pwned me by being incapable of reading? I said I could juggle 15 tables after 2 years. I said the first year I could juggle 4-6 tables. You said I'm a tard because it took me two years to juggle 4-6 tables.. LOL.
Why would anyone pay a "lawyer" who can't read English? I mean, you can't even understand a simple sentence, you give an angry answer and use namecalling to justify your stupidity. If you can't deal with simple waiter issues, how will you fare as a lawyer? And you talk about people undeserving of their salary. LOL.
More pwnage:
"You're absolutely right. So why do 99% of English-speaking servers appear incapable of this?"
How do you know this? Have you dined in 99% of restaurants in the US, with 99% of the servers at each place? LOL. You're full of shit. If you get bad service 99% of the times you eat out, it's obviously because you don't tip, and you have it well deserved. Some servers are pretty smart and can spot a low class poor from the minute he walks in. Then they ignore the fool throughout the meal. You probably give that vibe already and we can spot you from miles away.
It's actually GREAT to hear that you have bad experiences 99% of the times you eat out. Actually, for a server, it's a pleasure to give bad service to a low class poor like yourself. We still get to make money, and we give you crappy service and use that time to take care of the better people.
So you have it well deserved. I'm sure that after 99% of crappy dining experiences, you must be thinking about going back to eating at home for good. That'd be a great choice for someone like you. Actually, you'd do great becoming a regular at McDonalds and Burger King. Your food is fresh, you clean up your mess, and you get up your ass if you need something. And you have to tip ZERO. Why not take that route? You also sound like a fast-food type of guy.
The system won't change. You'll just continue to have 1% success rate when you eat out. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 12:47 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Great post >>>>>LOLZ!!!!! You sed 99% but really it's 99.4% Pwned!!!!! Your so retarded!!!!! LOL!!! You missed a period at the end of a sentence. pwned again!!! Your argument is wrong because you spelled a word wrong<<<<<
Sound familiar?
>>>>>The system won't change. You'll just continue to have 1% success rate when you eat out.<<<<<
And I'll just keep riding the system and paying no tips. Doesn't hurt me one little bit. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 2:19 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage On your first point: You're an idiot. What a childish and pathetic way of getting back at me for pointing out that your pwanage of me is actually self-pwnage of yours and continues to be.
On your second point, I actually agree with you this time. If you get bad service 99% of the times you go to a restaurant, then you should not tip.
I'm starting to think that the problem is not the system but something about your appearance that makes 99% of servers see you as a low class fool undeserving of good service. Do you look like the typical white trash bum without a penny in his pocket? Or like the typical bitter asshole who wouldn't tip if his life depended on it?
Whichever, don't blame the system. If your experiences suck 99% of the time, you are the problem, not the system. And your bitterness on this board clearly confirms it. HTH. |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 9:33 PM Author: Odious national weed whacker I am a waitress. And a law student. I *average* 26% in tips every single night. So, all your "trying to beat the system" aside, there are plenty of people out there who tip for outstanding service. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6106920) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 4:22 AM Author: trip church messiness curious (and completely off topic) - are you a ft or part time student, and how are you doing managing your time? I'm going to see how the first few weeks of 1L are but I don't know if I can not work for a whole year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6109446) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 9:25 AM Author: Odious national weed whacker i'm FT - I would definitely NOT work during your 1L year. 100% do not work your first year (esp. your first semester. if you realize you have a lot of time, then go ahead, but NOT the first semester). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6109593) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:40 PM Author: trip church messiness That's what I've been told...thanks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6112491) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 12:49 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Good for you Just one more reason not to feel guilty about not tipping. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6111013) |
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Date: June 29th, 2006 11:52 PM Author: Razzmatazz rehab Subject: boredhub, what do you do when... you go out with several coworkers, relatives, or friends, and you have to split the tip?
Do you explain your reasoning, or you chicken out and tip 20%? |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:46 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike split the tip. just make sure to not tip other times to make up for it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6111445) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 2:06 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage Subject: boredhub PWNED!!!!!!!!! LOL. So you're not using different monikers?
This time you forgot to change your moniker to answer a question directed at YOU.
Petrodollar directed the question at you, but somehow bigtard answers it? You're a pussy if you need to use additional monikers to support you. PUSSY.
PS. And you're also a huge PUSSY if you tip when you're with other people but don't tip when you're alone. Shows you're a fatass coward who doesn't even have the balls to do what you believe when there's people watching.
Biggest PUSSY ever.
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:46 PM Author: Bigtard: Part II
split the tip. just make sure to not tip other times to make up for it.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6111445) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:33 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: It's not me, idiot Ever thought that there's more than one person with my opinions? Or does that destroy all your arguments?
JUMPINGTOCONCLUSIONSPWNED. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:53 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage "Ever thought that there's more than one person with my opinions? Or does that destroy all your arguments?"
The fact that he shares your opinions doesn't mean he also shares your moniker, retard. You've just pwned yourself once again.
The question was for you, boredhub. Bigtard replied because he forgot to change his moniker for that particular argument.
PWNED, like usual. Not only are you a pussy, but also an idiot. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 4:02 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: ENORMOUS PWNING FOR URAMORON My oh my oh my. You're like a pwn-magnet - pwning just sticks to you.
You asked what I do when I'm out with co-workers and have to split the tip.
Then BigTard replied.
Then you said "Boredhub Pnwed!!!" and accused me of using different monikers.
Then I replied and said that BigTard wasn't me.
Then you replied and, strangely and confusingly, say that the question was intended for me and that BigTard didn't change his moniker?
WTF?
Can you not post one single word without pwning yourself?
Thanks for playing. Game over.
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Date: June 30th, 2006 12:08 AM Author: Vibrant mildly autistic chad I agree fully with some posters above who suggested a flat tip system. I think it should be linked to the bill up to a certain amount, and become flat thereafter.
I mean, 15% of a $60 bill for three (with very good service) is all very well. But 15% of a $600 client dinner for four, where the waiter essentially does the same thing? Just because I choose to have foie gras, Kobe beef steak and vintage wine, why should the waiter benefit so much? |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 9:59 AM Author: Wild shaky state partner Because it averages out, the waiter's not really benefiting, it's just calculated into the aggregrate.
As for the flat tip system, the current system could arguably be called flat tip system, in the same way that some people advocate a flat TAX system. In a flat tax system, everybody pays the same PERCENTAGE of their income, not the same amount. Similary, a flat tip system is where everyone pays the same PERCENTAGE of their bill. A progressive tip system would where a $100+ meal might call for a 25% tip, a $200+ meal might call for a 30% tip, and so on.
Any way, the rationale behind any system that has people paying a different AMOUNT depending on the amount they spend is to have the wealthier people subsidze the poorer folks. It's part of the tax system, and also part of the restaurant tipping system.
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:51 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "It's part of the tax system, and also part of the restaurant tipping system."
that doesn't mean the tipping system should remain that way. all that means is that you can find a parellel that happens to involve a percentage. good job. have a cookie. |
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Date: July 1st, 2006 2:04 PM Author: Wild shaky state partner please read and comprehend my post before responding with idiotic comments like "have a cookie". My post was in response to a previous post that advocated a "flat tip" system. My point is that a "flat tip" system is the system we currently have b/c flat refers to the percentage, not the amount.
Do you think writing "good job. have a cookie" makes you sound clever and cool? Here's some advice: no it doesn't. hth |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:33 PM Author: Fighting church building tattoo i don't have a problem with people not tipping -- it's that lack of disclosure that's weak. the majority of diners tip in the 10-25% range. there's an initial expectation that if the server makes the effort, etc, she'll be rewarded on some roughly linear basis. a non-tipper, for whatever reason, chooses to buck the standard of dealing, thereby breaching the good faith assumption.
in order to compensate for the lack of disclosure from the non-tippers out there, servers learn to use a number of observed behavioral characteristics as proxies for general douchery and, by extension, a likelihood of poor tipping habits, viz. general dismissiveness, self-important demeanor, poor taste in wine, etc.
of course the scheme is imperfect, resulting in something of a downward spiral, with poor tips, resulting from poor service, resulting from general waitstaff expectations of poor tips from dickless customers, resulting from the perception that waiters are "overpaid" for their shit service and what have you.
if the louses talking tough about their ever-so-effective, non-tipping policy would just man-up and let a waiter know straight off -- "you're not getting a tip, sucker" -- then servers would be in a position to modify their efforts in relation to the otherwise relied upon linear expectations. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:40 PM Author: wonderful range kitty cat All right, some astuteness here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6111376) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:36 PM Author: wonderful range kitty cat I posted this earlier on a different thread, but I'll put it here now, if only to dispell the flaming ignorance of the OP's argument.
Dumb Fucks—
Not a one of you has thus far proven capable of thinking about tipping from a realistic and nuanced economic perspective. In all service situations in which a clear order of whom is to be served has not been established (no, “next please,” no number system, no lines), one must pay a premium for the presumed directness and speed of the server’s effort and attention. This is why most people don’t tip, for instance, at a Starbucks—which in fact has a line—no matter how often those barista losers try to seed that little glass square on the counter with a dollar and pretend they are working so hard on your latte.
The server—a waiter, bartender, or worker operating in a more fluid, “lineless” system of serve—effectively exploits a asymmetrical information: the customers (that’s you, fucktards) aren’t sure who else is being served, whether or not the other people at tables or the bar are VIPs, the owner’s cousins, a group Associates on the Partner’s AMEX, or whatever, and these customers (you, fucktards) can’t know exactly how much these other customers have already “paid” for the server’s additional attention and alacrity; therefore, to ensure that they will, in fact, be taken care of, customers (you, fucktards) offer up a gratuity. Courteousness demands that the gratuity be offered at the end of the interaction: since 1) to maintain his superior bargaining position, the server must, in fact, leave the gratuity amount “open” to the very end of the transaction; 2) the assumption at most restaurants, nightclubs, etc. is that the customer (you, fucktards) will come back, so as to build a relationship that reflects appropriately on his or her overall value as a member of the community that passes by the establishment’s windows each night.
You forget that most restaurants and bars (and I’m not talking about Red Lobsters, though for a certain demographic they might serve a similar function) impart an intangible value onto the commodities in which traffic (which is why a BudLight is $5 a one club and $2 at another) and this value (intangible as it is, as foolish and unfungible as prestige) goes far beyond expertness of preparation, or even the surrounding ambience. A good restaurant or bar, my loser friends, is a showplace: a place to put one’s wealth and achievement on (hopefully muted and tasteful) display. Once can’t accomplish the very showing that one is supposed to do in these arenas, of course, if one doesn’t tip the waiter and prove adept at receiving quick and efficient service.
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:42 PM Author: Fighting church building tattoo likewise. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6111397) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 1:57 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "In all service situations in which a clear order of whom is to be served has not been established (no, “next please,” no number system, no lines), one must pay a premium for the presumed directness and speed of the server’s effort and attention."
but it doesn't have to be a tip. per se and the french laundry are examples of that. tipping isn't the only way to collect that premium.
"The server...effectively exploits a asymmetrical information: the customers (that’s you, fucktards) aren’t sure who else is being served, whether or not the other people at tables or the bar are VIPs, the owner’s cousins, a group Associates on the Partner’s AMEX, or whatever, and these customers (you, fucktards) can’t know exactly how much these other customers have already “paid” for the server’s additional attention and alacrity; therefore, to ensure that they will, in fact, be taken care of, customers (you, fucktards) offer up a gratuity."
and, of course, the customers can fight back by not tipping at all. it's an entirely voluntary system of payment. and the voluntary payment is made after services have already been rendered.
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Date: June 30th, 2006 2:16 PM Author: wonderful range kitty cat But tipping is the customary practice in an overwhelming number of U.S. dining/drinking establishments. Your point is?
I never said that tipping was obligatory. Indeed, the voluntary nature of tipping often works to a server's advantage, since the lack of predetermined amounts enable the "bidding" I described to take place.
What's left? Oh, you've done nothing to contradict or undermine the substance of my point here regarding the legitimate value of a tip. And if tips do have a legitimate value, waiters are not overpaid.
Game. Set. Match. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 2:27 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "And if tips do have a legitimate value, waiters are not overpaid."
uh, no. how could you be that fucking stupid? even if tips have a legitimate value, that doesn't mean the money to pay for that should accrue to the waiter. and it doesn't refute the notion that waiters are overpaid. jesus fucking christ, that's such a simple step that you're unable to see. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 2:34 PM Author: wonderful range kitty cat What you are missing: the system, as it is currently designed, makes waiters THE CREATORS of that value.
If you want do undo the convention of tipping, not tipping won't help. You'll have to start putting people in a line or find some other way to fairly order who gets served when. Eventually, of course, when people want to move ahead in line or otherwise benefit from a privilege that a server can give, they will yet again tip. Unless you cut all the flexibility out of the system--which would be awfully impractical to do, since some foods take longer to prepare than others and in a typical dining establishment, too many other variables affect who gets served when and how.
I know its tough for you to get your head around, but realize: even proles create value. You are not the only economic actor in every situation.
In addition to your niggardly cheapness, your myopia, I suspect, must also make you a poor dinner companion.
Next. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 2:49 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "What you are missing: the system, as it is currently designed, makes waiters THE CREATORS of that value."
here's the value you're talking about...
"You forget that most restaurants and bars...impart an intangible value onto the commodities in which traffic...and this value...goes far beyond expertness of preparation, or even the surrounding ambience. A good restaurant or bar, my loser friends, is a showplace: a place to put one’s wealth and achievement on...display. Once can’t accomplish the very showing that one is supposed to do in these arenas, of course, if one doesn’t tip the waiter and prove adept at receiving quick and efficient service."
wrong. you don't do jack fucking shit to show that the service premium should go to the waiter. at best, all you're saying is that the portion of the value waiters create is what they should be compensated for.
moreover, empirical experience from around the world proves that you're wrong. people manage in bars and restaurants elsewhere. additionally, displays of status are highly adaptable. tipping isn't special. it's just throwing around money. you can impress people with your shiny new "grill," your spinners, the benz daddy bought you, the drinks you drink, the food you eat, etc.
in other words, people can and do accomplish that showing without tips.
"You'll have to start putting people in a line or find some other way to fairly order who gets served when."
god, you're stupid. tips are highly INVARIABLE. they don't come close to solving the issue that you think exists. furthermore, there ARE restuarants that don't have tipping for their servers. from the customer's perspective, they function just the same.
"Unless you cut all the flexibility out of the system--which would be awfully impractical to do, since some foods take longer to prepare than others and in a typical dining establishment, too many other variables affect who gets served when and how."
tipping doesn't fix that. high tippers who order food that takes a long to cook still have to wait. in the meantime, shitty tippers (who are probably unknown to the server) are getting their food. there's no problem. the customer sits down. the server take their order to the kitchen. the kitch makes it. the server bring it to the customer. there's no ordering problem.
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:06 PM Author: wonderful range kitty cat You display a great misunderstanding of how restaurants and bars work. A server has a great deal of influence as to who gets what when, and as to whether or not the kitchen (which is run much less fluidly and attempts standardization) meets an individual customer's preferences. This is part of the value that a server creates.
Another part of the value a server creates involves the very act of serving. Since, like it or not, the U.S. purports to value equality among its citizens, Americans, like it or not, must tip their fellow Americans for acting out "unequal" roles. It's no wonder tipping doesn't fly in Europe, where the class system is more openly acknowledged. So, servers create value as well, via their temporary entrance into subserviance. Note well, this subserviance (i.e. this ability to be in a place where you are always the "guest" and always "right") is a big part of what allows a restuarant or bar to be a place in which one can display his or her status.
Oh: sure you can express your status in all kinds of ways. Go get gold braces, for all I care. Fact is, though, without some social scene in which to make a display (the Bois in Paris and the arcades there did this in the 1890s) all of these signifiers lack value. Hence, the restaurant, hence, too, with the system we're talking about in place, servers who must be tipped.
Fact: begin by arguing that waiters are overcompensated within the current system. When offered an explanation as to why it is the current system legitimately generates the compensation you complain against, you say the system itself is flawed. This is fine, but you cannot in fact refute the idea that waiters actually get what their worth within the current system.
Ach, I'm off for the rest of the night. Take some time to come up with a better rebuttal, OK? |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:16 PM Author: maroon razzle preventive strike "A server has a great deal of influence as to who gets what when, and as to whether or not the kitchen (which is run much less fluidly and attempts standardization) meets an individual customer's preferences. This is part of the value that a server creates."
almost irrelevant. the server doesn't know who will tip what. "preferring" everyone is the same as preferring no one. really, all the happens is that they can screw some people (e.g. blacks).
"Another part of the value a server creates involves the very act of serving."
that's not the value you were talking about. next.
"So, servers create value as well, via their temporary entrance into subserviance."
that's not value. that's reparations. and that's not what you were talking about. moreover, your class structure argument is backwards. europe is more willing to use redistributive structures and policies than the united states, and yet they still don't tip.
"Fact is, though, without some social scene in which to make a display...all of these signifiers lack value."
and tipping still isn't necessary to the functioning of such a system. i'm glad you agree, now. i'm particularly glad you've chosen to ignore my examples of u.s. restaurants with no tipping.
"Fact: begin by arguing that waiters are overcompensated within the current system."
how is that imperative sentence a fact? start making sense first.
"you cannot in fact refute the idea that waiters actually get what their worth within the current system."
they get more than they're worth because tipping isn't a system that lends itself to competitive pressures. there's very little pressure to reduce tips. without that pressure, we have altruism, senses of duty, and things like that inflating their incomes. they no more "deserve" or have "earned" at least some portion of their tip than does the recipient of charity or a gift. if you want to get closer to their true value, let the restaurant control the distribution of tips (perhaps through service fees, simply collecting the tip themselves, etc.).
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:38 PM Author: trip church messiness I've got a half hour to kill. I'll take over.
Server's have excellent esp when it comes to knowing who will tip and who won't. I can't attest to knowing who will stiff me and who won't, but I know enough to bet on when I should add automatic gratuity to large parties, or when I should give below-par service to a table based on their demographics (usually, teenagers who come in for the cheapest menu items and water and act severely obnoxious. On the same note, I am not a bitch, and if they are nice and make a comment that they are broke and can't afford something better, I usually give them free soda since I was in their shoes 10 years ago. Doesn't help the tip, but the karma factor is good.)
I don't know a server who is not biased. Flame me for that what you will, but you have to "read" your table. This is because, in each of our pasts, we have generally been screwed over by certain demographics on average. I don't do this anymore, but at the large popular burger chain I used to work at, I despised getting tables comprised of people that generally run you ragged and will leave you 3 pennies on the table, regardless of who you are (I averaged 20-25% on my other tables...which didn't add up to much seeing as how I was on the clock for an average of 2 hours, 3-4 days a week with an average bill of 20 dollars...perhaps accounting for a "generous" tip.)
Now...for the argument that "europe doesn't tip so we shouldn't either."
In Europe, tipping is not standard practice because the service charge is included in the price of the menue (see here: http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g187275-s606/Germany:Tipping.&.Etiquette.html) If the argument by boredhub is that he is paying the cooks for the food in the price of the menu item in the States, you are NOT tipping in Europe because you are already paying for the service (and the cook's work, and the expo, and the food itself, blah blah blah.)
So, what is your argument about not paying for the "service" in the states? It is NOT included in the menu. My argument is that if you do not want to have a subjective value placed for the service you receive, then start a movement for the inclusion of the server's salary in the menu item - the 15% that europe does.
But, this would mean, if we follow Europe standards like the argument is trending towards here, higher menu prices (by 15%!). Now - you could either have it this way, basically a flat-line automatic gratuity despite the quality of your service, or the option to decide the value of your service.
No one in the world does not value service. There are just various ways of compensation for it. You decide how you want to pay for it. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:55 PM Author: flirting ticket booth boiling water You say that severs know who will tip and who won't. I say that the correlation between perceived service quality and tips is 0.11 (that's the Lynn study). I also say that your "ESP" creates self-fulfilling prophesies.
How can you possibly "know" when to auto-grat large parties? Have you conducted a rigorous study in which you pitted your ESP against various tip outcomes while at the same time controlling for your service quality? I don't think you have.
And when you say that you know how to server people based on demographics, what you really mean to say is that you treat black people worse than others.
"So, what is your argument about not paying for the "service" in the states?"
Not tipping will lead to the collapse of the system if we can get a meaningful minority of people to stop tipping.
"No one in the world does not value service. There are just various ways of compensation for it. You decide how you want to pay for it."
I want to pay for it via the menu price. Businesses are better at economizing than directionless social constructs. In order to do my part to bring about that change, I will make it my policy to not tip unless there is a significant personal advantage to do so. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 5:27 PM Author: trip church messiness I know when to autograt because I've experienced enough various demographics to prevent myself from being stiffed. It is often validated when the party complains that I've included the tip despite the amount of work I performed for the party. I'm not expecting you to understand this, however.
It is only self-fulfilling when your level of service drops below what is expected.
Racist? Not really. I'm more biased towards age than anything. I especially dislike 13 year old girls with an attitude (though I serve them less than once a month._ And snobby 40-something women (though they are great tippers, just hell to deal with.) As for racial preference, it actually comes down to someone's class. I dislike the white hick more than the "other" poor folk. Watch the movie "waiting" - you don't have to be non-white to be expected to tip poorly.
Not tipping will lead to a demise of dining out. People dine out because they can afford it, and additionally award for the service they receive. If they MUST pay for service, regardless of its perceived value, the system will collapse due to the cost of the labor.
You can make it a policy not to tip. But as long as you do not verbally express your reason and make an effort to change the policy behind your reason, you are getting free service, robbing your server (or "servant" as they are becoming for you) and the system will NOT change. |
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Date: July 20th, 2006 5:56 PM Author: Rebellious french chef meetinghouse "You can make it a policy not to tip. But as long as you do not verbally express your reason and make an effort to change the policy behind your reason, you are getting free service, robbing your server "
So if the server refused to serve you because your policy, would he be safe from getting fired? Dumb. The server has a job, she should do it. There is no "theft".
"Not tipping will lead to a demise of dining out. "
No it won't. There are more than enough uneducated fools in this country who can take those jobs if spoiled brats like yourself found new gigs. |
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Date: July 20th, 2006 11:47 PM Author: trip church messiness The server has a job that they are doing because tips are an expected source of income as part of the job. The government even thinks so in most states, hence the "server" wage that is below "minimum" wage - the state and federal authorities expect consumers to compensate for the difference with tips. So in a *sense* you are robbing your server - expecting "free" service when everyone else, including the government, expects, though is not forcing, an additional few dollars on the tab to pay the server a living wage.
We've been through the other part of your argument. If tipping is removed from dining out, the only people who will work those jobs are those who work the type of jobs that are paid similarily - and since most serving (and bartending) jobs are reserved for the 18/21+ crowd, and most minimum wage jobs are taken by highschoolers, whats left is truly uneducated adults and immigrant workers - you sure you want them serving you, as opposed to the (probably) classy (and english speaking!) server you have now, at your 5 star restaurant? |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 4:05 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Elly - once again you clearly haven't read the thread >>>>>So, what is your argument about not paying for the "service" in the states? It is NOT included in the menu. My argument is that if you do not want to have a subjective value placed for the service you receive, then start a movement for the inclusion of the server's salary in the menu item - the 15% that europe does.<<<<<
I would love to see this. See my earlier posts.
Again, you don't do well when you jump into conversations. Try something else instead. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 5:12 PM Author: trip church messiness So you agree that you are willing to ALWAYS pay 15% for service if it is included in the menu price but not if you can opt to pay for it based on your perceived value of the service itself? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6113250) |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:40 PM Author: wonderful range kitty cat To hit your points in order (and I really must go--goddamn crack this is, XOXOHTH):
A server's ability to control who gets what and when is not as you argue, "almost irrelevant," when in fact a server may, and very often will, have repeat customers whose tipping habits she is aware of. Also, note, too, that a server can "read" his or her customers and make evaluations as to whom is worth more attention.
Yes, the "value" I was talking about did involve "the act of serving"--not in the sense of carrying plates to the table, but in the sense of working in a subservient position within a "democratic" culture. This "subservience" is part of what makes restaurants places where people can show off their status. I admit I didn't draw the connection explicitly at first, but I have drawn it here, proir to now. Read the posts.
You miss my point about the difference betweeen U.S. and Europe. Take England: the UK may in fact be more "redistributive," but class divisions are also more openly expressed. One can rise in earnings, but it is much more difficult for one to rise in status there. In the UK, patricians don't ape the style of NASCAR dads. You won't find a Torry raising money with a hamburger dinner as blue blooded George Bush did here in the U.S. You will also see that there is a greater sense of who should serve whom in the UK, and not some sense that every man should be King in his cottage.
Forgive my typo: I mean "You begin by arguing that waiters are overcompensated. . ." And it's a fact, you do begin with this argument.
Wrong again about tipping and competitive pressures: if people didn't want the value (real or not) that they think they get from getting served and being tipped, than the market would provide them more options to go to places in which tipping isn't the custom. These options exist, after all. If you don't feel tipping is worth it, go to Burger King. I'm sure you'll be right at home there, with your paper crown on, man.
Bye. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 4:03 PM Author: flirting ticket booth boiling water Your class argument makes no fucking sense. (By the way, there's no tipping in Japan, and Japan has a very flat social structure.)
You're saying that they don't tip in Europe because they have clearer class divisions AND you agreed that they are more likely to redistribute wealth in response to that.
And for only God knows what reason, you think that the social mobility and blurry class lines in the United States justify tipping. That doesn't make any sense. We are less aware of and less concerned about class divisions, therefore we tip to solve the problem we're not really worried about and not really aware of??? WTF?!
"if people didn't want the value (real or not) that they think they get from getting served and being tipped, than the market would provide them more options to go to places in which tipping isn't the custom."
Social conventions can inhibit innovation. Simple as that.
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Date: July 1st, 2006 9:42 AM Author: wonderful range kitty cat For they are PWN3D, yet still can't see! (Amen, brother! Right on! they say from the pews on this, a Sunday morning)
Yes, my class argument makes no sense to you, because you fail to understand a simple distinction:
wealth =/= status.
See Paul Fussel's book CLASS for a lesson.
The example of Japan, I should think, actually proves my point about tipping clearly. You see, Japan's historical legacy is that of a country with a very pronounced and inflexible (i.e. offer no upward mobility) Feudal class system. Feudal Japanese society had seven social strata:
Daimyo - landowners, whose power came through land, money, and private armies Samurai, or Bushi - noble warrior class, soldiers for hire who typically swore fielty to a daimyo; no one lesser than a samurai was allowed to carry a katana; ended up becoming more beaurocrats than warriors during extended periods of peace Hyakusho or No - farmers and peasants Ko - craftsmen Sho - merchants and shopkeepers, ranked lowest but typically where some of the real power lay due to money Eta - "unclean" - out of favor, discriminated against in all aspects of living; couldn't get jobs other than butcher or hide tanner which were considered ultimately low Hinin - "no-human" - criminals (list available @ http://www.kristenkyle.com/rbb_tlw4.html)
No doubt, Japan's history of clear class divisions, with all its attendant assumptions about who must serve whom, make tipping there non-obligatory, since why should one tip a person who is lower, for doing what is that person's historically predetermined (and class-based) cultural duty.
To repeat (as one must for children and idiots), since a strain of what I have been arguing is this: we tip in America because historicallly our society values the idea that "anyone can do anything" and, more importantly, "All men are created equal." This notion of inherent equality, forces us to make a gesture to restore the social balance for those who work in serving positions, via tipping. Note, the idea of this as a gesture to restore "equality" is crucial here. It's a gesture, not an out and out reparation, since, equality myth aside, America does indeed have classes, and even a history of slavery to contend with.
OK, on your last point: you agrue that tipping here is such an ingrained "social convention" that it inhibits an otherwise rational implementation of a system that would rid us of the innefiency of tipping. Well, I can't even buy this as an explanation as to why Europe has socialized medicine and the U.S. doesn't. But by my explanation tipping is, in fact, "efficient," because the convention, with its somewhat variable valuation for service and attention, helps to create the very kind of "social effect" that sends people to restuarants in the first place--i.e. tipping helps make restaurants places where one can show off one's status (in a society where one must otherwise at least give lip service to the idea of equality.
Try to do Judge Posner a little more justice than making feeble arguments like this. Please. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:23 PM Author: trip church messiness Stop arguing about serving.
Go do it yourself....here!:
http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=11698
I think there are other versions of this, but if you're bored, it should suffice. Don't get started on how easy serving is...this is nothin. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 3:44 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage boredhub: "I'll have the Chef come and give me a 30 second explanation.."
You're an idiot. It's not the Chef's job to go to every table to explain the menu to the customers. The Chef's in the kitchen supervising the food preparation. That's what the server is there for, to communicate with the customers.
It's becoming more and more clear why your experiences suck. You have no understanding of social conventions, not at restaurants, not here, not at all. You're a low class white trash, socially maladjusted fuck with feelings of entitlement. I'm sure you've been thrown out of a restaurant more than thrice. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 4:25 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Hint that you've lost an argument - when you rely on misquoting You said I said: "I'll have the Chef come and give me a 30 second explanation."
I actually said: "If I have a question about something above and beyond the text of the menu (which I can read, by the way, and don't need a waiter to explain), I'd prefer one of the chefs to give me thirty seconds of his time to explain. In many a fine restaurant, this is not a problem."
I think we differ in places we eat. You prefer chain restaurants, fast food, or 'famous restaurants' that are very busy. I prefer more intimate places where the food is actually prepared by skilled chefs who care about their work. Not production lines (no matter how fancy or famous they are - places you go are still production lines).
In my type of restaurants, the chefs are passionate about their work, and are often happy to discuss the menu in great detail before I order. In fact, most of these places are chef-owned, or the chef is also the manager. They're laid back places. Not 'get them in, get them out' places. Where it's about quality food, not raping the customers of all their money.
Perhaps a visit to some quality establishments would help you understand this better. Then you can talk to me on my level about this, instead of blathering about how some ex-criminal working in the kitchen of the Cheesecake Factory won't come out and explain the intricacies of his particular interpretation of a classic dish. |
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Date: July 1st, 2006 2:28 AM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage Subject: "Hint that you've lost an argument - when you rely on misquoting Hint that you've lost an argument - when you rely on lying.
"You prefer chain restaurants, fast food, or 'famous restaurants' that are very busy."
I haven't even touched on the type of restaurants I prefer.
You've lost the argument and pwned yourself at the same time by doing exactly what you've criticized.
Idiot & Pussy have become the words of choice to describe you. |
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Date: June 30th, 2006 4:19 PM Author: Canary Useless Brakes How much does the average waiter make in a week?
At an average restaurant like TGIF?
At a place that is ~$50 per person? |
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Date: July 1st, 2006 4:21 AM Author: flickering rusted new version heaven Subject: Classless Pigs Wow, there are a lot of classless tight-asses on this board. You pay for the service and food you get. If you don't want to tip, then go to McDonalds and receive the food directly. If you want a better dining experience and want to be served, then it is going to cost you 9proportionate to the quality of the service and food). Anyway, if tipping were eliminated, the cost of the food would have to increase so as to raise the waiters' meager salaries. And, if you eliminate the tipping, the incentive to provide quality sevrice will be gone.
This thread makes it clear that most of the people on this board are non-Top 10 law students who are bitter about their station in life. Otherwise, if you are making a lot of money, you should be wlling to spend money for the quality of service you desire. Personally, I have done very well in life as regards money and i am happy to share the wealth with those who serve me. I went to a Top 5 and everyone I know from law school has been good tippers. Its about class.....get some. Now STFU. |
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Date: July 1st, 2006 6:43 AM Author: pink sanctuary pistol Subject: you can get great service and not leave a penny waiters don't collect tips until after the work is done, and they also expect to be shafted sometimes. if you want to be a sucker and bankroll nontippers, you go right ahead, fool. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6117197) |
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Date: July 1st, 2006 4:13 PM Author: Bat-shit-crazy Smoky Stage Subject: This whole thread is worthless.. Because the original poster is condemning a system when in reality, the problem is not the system, but him.
Boredhub claims he gets bad service 99% of the times he goes to a restaurant.
This indicates that the problem is not the system but something about boredhub's appearance that makes 99% of servers see him as a low class fool undeserving of good service. Either he looks like the typical white trash bum without a penny in his pocket, or like the typical bitter asshole who wouldn't tip if his life depended on it.
Whichever, he's obviously not a nice, decent person that you (or anyone) would like to wait on. He blames the system because he's a low-class clown and can't see himself for whom he is. If his experiences suck 99% of the time as he claims, HE is the problem, not the system. And his bitterness and obsessive insistence on this board clearly confirms it.
I have excellent dining experiences 99% of the times, and most people I know can tell of one or two bad experiences out of a hundred.
The OP clearly has issues. But he'll never admit it, he'd take the easy way out by using the system as a scapegoat.
What a sad, pathetic loser. |
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Date: July 1st, 2006 7:43 PM Author: talking cracking bbw This is probably the most pertinent argument I have read on the tippers' side thus far. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6119414) |
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Date: July 1st, 2006 7:44 PM Author: sexy field roast beef Do people here tip movers? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6119423) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2006 2:20 PM Author: Painfully honest telephone People tip tattoo artists, so I don't see why not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6123228) |
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Date: July 2nd, 2006 8:43 PM Author: trip church messiness how does that correlate? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6125214) |
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Date: July 20th, 2006 4:08 PM Author: nubile stimulating jewess Great thread! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6259106) |
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Date: July 20th, 2006 4:31 PM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: Yeah. I thought so too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6259376) |
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Date: July 21st, 2006 9:14 AM Author: Medicated pit sex offender Subject: Negative About 2 weeks ago I was at a pizza place and left a negative tip. They brought me the wrong pizza, I sent it back and they brought back the same pizza with all the mushrooms and shit that was wrong ripped off with unmelted chesse piled on top of it. Besides that, it was horrible and I never got a drink refill. When the bill came, the total was something like $27.50. I wrote "-$5.00" for the tip and "$22.50" for the total and put it on my card. They charged $22.50 to my card. I should have done $-32.50 and demamded my change but that might have been pushing it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6264552) |
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Date: July 21st, 2006 9:42 AM Author: Multi-colored jap Subject: I'm liking that idea After all, why can't it cut both ways? If service is so crap that it actually REDUCES the value of the food, then customers should reduce the amount of the bill and the difference be taken out of the waiter's other tips for the night.
On many an occasion, my service has been so bad (wrong order taken, wrong sides, wrong substitutions, wrong stuff like putting onions in the salad when I asked for no onions etc.) that it's actually devalued the food.
I'd gladly support a scheme where tips could range from -15% to +30%, with 15% being the expected tip. That way, I'd be happy to tip the occasional waiter the full 30% (because although most are crap and dramatically overestimate their own skills and utility to the dining experience, there's a handful who are good) in return for the chance to penalize when the waiter is so crap that they should technically compensate me for the damage they have done to my food. |
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Date: July 21st, 2006 10:39 AM Author: dun elite fat ankles crackhouse ha, you only got away with it because they didn't check your math.
but nicely done |
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Date: October 18th, 2006 3:19 PM Author: Provocative Territorial Gunner Haunted Graveyard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#6811812) |
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Date: November 25th, 2006 5:52 PM Author: Provocative Territorial Gunner Haunted Graveyard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#7065655) |
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Date: February 7th, 2007 5:20 PM Author: Sinister coral indian lodge Bumped to compete with the handbag thread? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#7561966) |
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Date: February 7th, 2007 4:16 PM Author: grizzly hairraiser parlour death wish does anybody tip the old guy assisting you in the bathroom at the bar? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#7561634) |
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Date: February 7th, 2007 5:21 PM Author: Bateful citrine azn Only if he gives "full service" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#7561978) |
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Date: May 1st, 2007 8:43 PM Author: Provocative Territorial Gunner Haunted Graveyard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#8044697) |
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Date: May 1st, 2007 8:57 PM Author: seedy maniacal electric furnace house The least you could do is give a reason for bumping. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#8044761) |
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Date: August 3rd, 2007 2:51 PM Author: Slimy Twinkling Location (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#8467905) |
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Date: August 3rd, 2007 3:24 PM Author: aphrodisiac mediation Yea the OP and replies were wrong on so many accounts that I can't even think where to begin. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#8468061) |
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Date: August 6th, 2007 10:55 PM Author: Slimy Twinkling Location (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=443307&forum_id=2#8482948) |
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