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Interesting how the PUA scene died down, what happened?

I don't really follow it so maybe it just went somewhere els...
Sapphire Glittery Kitty Crackhouse
  12/09/20
alt-right/trad movement dampened it
hideous box office
  12/09/20
It became too mainstream and women became wise to their tric...
onyx heaven becky
  12/09/20
...
Cracking Alcoholic Corner Ceo
  12/10/20
It evolved into the alt right
Wonderful ticket booth
  12/09/20
People wised up to the fact that the retards who made up tha...
Soul-stirring emerald french chef
  12/09/20
...
domesticated sinister home
  12/09/20
lol
Cracking Alcoholic Corner Ceo
  12/10/20
...
useless self-absorbed hospital
  12/11/20
Cancel culture happened - with MSM doing full hit pieces on ...
Embarrassed To The Bone Nursing Home
  12/09/20
Tinder.
french 180 stage degenerate
  12/09/20
This whole online ecosystem of MGTOW/MRA/Incel stuff came up...
passionate lay marketing idea
  12/09/20
looksmaxing emerged as a response to incel culture. Looksmax...
Embarrassed To The Bone Nursing Home
  12/09/20
...
Histrionic crotch theatre
  12/09/20
Collagen or rope OP Rate my eye area (am pure Asian not h...
seedy avocado stead
  12/09/20
see my poast below on this
seedy avocado stead
  12/09/20
Online dating
Ungodly boltzmann plaza
  12/09/20
chateau heartiste posts can still be found in archives. It's...
Misunderstood Bearded Brunch
  12/09/20
everyone who wanted to get laid either bagged some retarded ...
Talented puce water buffalo really tough guy
  12/09/20
nyuug
Stirring ruby menage
  12/09/20
Guy should get a jerb at RSD
Cerebral Big-titted Milk
  12/09/20
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3345436&mc=9...
Lime crusty stage kitty cat
  12/09/20
roosh deleted all his PUA shit and became a fake right wing ...
Charismatic native elastic band
  12/09/20
He's given up too much money to be fake
Sapphire Glittery Kitty Crackhouse
  12/10/20
swipe-apps. it used to be badass to rack up notches on the b...
Mint supple hall
  12/09/20
...
Cracking Alcoholic Corner Ceo
  12/10/20
...
Floppy pearl parlour
  12/10/20
all the extremely online dudes who didn't originally underst...
seedy avocado stead
  12/09/20
lol yea cause white western guys arent ever bitching abt whi...
Charismatic native elastic band
  12/09/20
even lulzier as i am the boardts PREMIER WGWAG threader
Lime crusty stage kitty cat
  12/10/20
...
Hot meetinghouse volcanic crater
  12/10/20
lmao that TT and nyuug came sprinting in to respond to this
Floppy pearl parlour
  12/10/20
...
aphrodisiac sienna wrinkle
  12/11/20
Keep talking shit about XO
useless self-absorbed hospital
  12/11/20
I've seen PUA content and forums now marketed specifically t...
beady-eyed hairy legs temple
  12/11/20
The PUA's seemed to be stuck in the early 2000's, before onl...
thriller shrine
  12/09/20
I would guess most pick up artists end up becoming mgtow cha...
balding round eye
  12/09/20
Any other bros have PEAK experiences AMOGing other dudes at ...
Cerebral Big-titted Milk
  12/09/20
closest I got to this was going up to a hot ass Asian goddes...
balding round eye
  12/09/20
Cr. I realize this may sound gay as fuck, but for me the thr...
dull slap-happy tanning salon
  12/09/20
...
Brilliant fragrant library
  12/10/20
a junior associate at my old firm went on a date with some P...
Stimulating Metal Area
  12/10/20
Lol
aphrodisiac sienna wrinkle
  12/10/20
it was weird but just goes to show how easy it is to play wo...
Stimulating Metal Area
  12/10/20
Well getting women to like you once they’re talking to...
aphrodisiac sienna wrinkle
  12/10/20
Was it Tyler?
Self-centered stubborn field national security agency
  12/11/20
they're all happily married, no more to complain about
flushed hissy fit roommate
  12/10/20
what a different time! in my younger days i was always jones...
Nofapping Legal Warrant Alpha
  12/10/20
Tinder completed ended it in like 2014-2015. Then instagram/...
Brilliant fragrant library
  12/10/20
Trump sent the Indians back
Hot meetinghouse volcanic crater
  12/10/20
this was the last window of opportunity for shortmos to have...
high-end amethyst sanctuary
  12/10/20
Dancing monkey frame
Laughsome casino candlestick maker
  12/10/20
pretty much. mops and psychos.
Odious Locus
  12/11/20
what's a mop?
Laughsome casino candlestick maker
  12/11/20
A nerd who is really into some scene. A fan. A stan. A true ...
Odious Locus
  12/13/20
bugman
Laughsome casino candlestick maker
  12/13/20
Right.
Odious Locus
  12/14/20
oh god I was in it from the beginning. what happened is it g...
Odious Locus
  12/11/20
All the dorks became chads. No more customers.
hideous box office
  12/11/20
Incels switched to worshipping donald
Bipolar Pink Location
  12/14/20
The blackpill/PSL has taken over and everyone has realized t...
Clear beta den community account
  12/14/20
We shall see what unfolds.
topaz address mad-dog skullcap
  12/14/20
Style got caught sucking Ross Jeffries’ cock in a Buga...
crawly mildly autistic pocket flask
  12/14/20
H1B reform
Ultramarine old irish cottage
  12/14/20


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 9:08 PM
Author: Sapphire Glittery Kitty Crackhouse

I don't really follow it so maybe it just went somewhere else and I didn't notice, but it seems to have died down after like 2017. The underlying issues that caused seem to have gotten worse though. So what happened to it? Did all the people with skills age out and the zoomers are too depressed to even try?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517016)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 9:09 PM
Author: hideous box office

alt-right/trad movement dampened it



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517022)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 9:26 PM
Author: onyx heaven becky

It became too mainstream and women became wise to their tricks, combined with Tinder which meant that women didn't have to put up with clowns at clubs to get laid and could go straight for the alphas.

The whole things was probably vastly oversold to begin with.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517139)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 12:41 AM
Author: Cracking Alcoholic Corner Ceo



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518323)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 9:27 PM
Author: Wonderful ticket booth

It evolved into the alt right

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517146)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 9:28 PM
Author: Soul-stirring emerald french chef

People wised up to the fact that the retards who made up that "movement" were all fucking and passing around the same bottom 20% of last-call dumpster-living women

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517151)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:14 PM
Author: domesticated sinister home



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517914)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 12:42 AM
Author: Cracking Alcoholic Corner Ceo

lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518327)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2020 7:19 AM
Author: useless self-absorbed hospital



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41525595)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 9:29 PM
Author: Embarrassed To The Bone Nursing Home

Cancel culture happened - with MSM doing full hit pieces on individuals while Big tech cut their server/domain access etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517154)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 9:30 PM
Author: french 180 stage degenerate

Tinder.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517160)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 9:30 PM
Author: passionate lay marketing idea

This whole online ecosystem of MGTOW/MRA/Incel stuff came up that just catered to sexually frustrated men better and without needing them to spend loads of money. Also online dating, porn apps, etc.

I actually wonder what's happening with the remaining PUA companies these days. Like real social dynamics. That's apparently still a thing. I wonder if they make any money still.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517163)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 9:42 PM
Author: Embarrassed To The Bone Nursing Home

looksmaxing emerged as a response to incel culture. Looksmax.me is the top men’s health website in the world beating out Corp sites like menshealth.com

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517219)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 10:01 PM
Author: Histrionic crotch theatre



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517319)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:16 PM
Author: seedy avocado stead

Collagen or rope

OP Rate my eye area (am pure Asian not hapa)

Collagen or rope Yesterday at 1:09 AM 2

Replies38

Views580 2 minutes ago

Chineseguyslefort

Chineseguyslefort

Mr.cope

Not OP curry imbreeding result

Mr.cope 34 minutes ago

Replies6

Views7 3 minutes ago

LondonVillie

LondonVillie

DharkDC

Not OP Rate random that goes to my Uni

DharkDC 5 minutes ago

Replies1

Views2 4 minutes ago

werty1457

werty1457

Not OP Rate this Pakistani

pakipassion Apr 25, 2020

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517927)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:17 PM
Author: seedy avocado stead

see my poast below on this

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517931)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 9:46 PM
Author: Ungodly boltzmann plaza

Online dating

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517246)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 9:56 PM
Author: Misunderstood Bearded Brunch

chateau heartiste posts can still be found in archives. It's treasure chest of insights into human psychology.

PUA stuff should be as relevant as ever because incels are just as numerous as ever, but I think mass censorship and indoctrination have effectively put the PUA red pills out of reach for most young men

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517291)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 10:00 PM
Author: Talented puce water buffalo really tough guy

everyone who wanted to get laid either bagged some retarded 4 off of tinder or simps on onlyfans to fill the void in their soul. legal weed probably pacified these types of people a lot too

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517316)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 10:21 PM
Author: Stirring ruby menage

nyuug

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517465)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:09 PM
Author: Cerebral Big-titted Milk

Guy should get a jerb at RSD

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517888)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:35 PM
Author: Lime crusty stage kitty cat

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=3345436&mc=91&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518052)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:10 PM
Author: Charismatic native elastic band

roosh deleted all his PUA shit and became a fake right wing christian fanatic now

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517889)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 12:03 AM
Author: Sapphire Glittery Kitty Crackhouse

He's given up too much money to be fake

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518201)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:11 PM
Author: Mint supple hall

swipe-apps. it used to be badass to rack up notches on the belt. its too easy now.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517897)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 12:44 AM
Author: Cracking Alcoholic Corner Ceo



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518340)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 10:54 PM
Author: Floppy pearl parlour



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41524250)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:15 PM
Author: seedy avocado stead

all the extremely online dudes who didn't originally understand women figured them out and then they didn't need the PUA scene anymore. women aren't actually very complicated and all of the useful info about them has already percolated through our culture. even 13 year old kids are throwing around terms like "simp" and "chad" and "alpha" and "beta." everybody knows the score now

the same PUA forums/hangouts actually still exist, believe it or not. but they're entirely populated by cartoonisly sociopathic indians, creepy asians and other minorities. i'm not exaggerating. i spent half a day reading through a PUA forum a couple months ago and i was absolutely repulsed in a way that i hadn't been in a long time. it was a very nyuug/tommy turdskin sort of bitter, resentful vibe toward "western" (white) women that was clearly coming from feelings of racial resentment and inadequacy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517919)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:17 PM
Author: Charismatic native elastic band

lol yea cause white western guys arent ever bitching abt white womens

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517935)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 12:23 AM
Author: Lime crusty stage kitty cat

even lulzier as i am the boardts PREMIER WGWAG threader

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518260)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 6:28 PM
Author: Hot meetinghouse volcanic crater



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41522636)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 10:57 PM
Author: Floppy pearl parlour

lmao that TT and nyuug came sprinting in to respond to this

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41524268)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2020 7:16 AM
Author: aphrodisiac sienna wrinkle



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41525585)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2020 7:20 AM
Author: useless self-absorbed hospital

Keep talking shit about XO

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41525597)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2020 8:17 AM
Author: beady-eyed hairy legs temple

I've seen PUA content and forums now marketed specifically to Indo-Paks. Its vomit-inducing. They have arranged marriages for a reason. Oh and they've got tons of closet cases too.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41525697)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:20 PM
Author: thriller shrine

The PUA's seemed to be stuck in the early 2000's, before online dating got big. Picking up a girl at a bar is probably more fun than picking up an equivalent girl online. But picking her up online is so much more efficient.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517961)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:21 PM
Author: balding round eye

I would guess most pick up artists end up becoming mgtow chad dads like that instagram beardbro with tons of models

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517967)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:23 PM
Author: Cerebral Big-titted Milk

Any other bros have PEAK experiences AMOGing other dudes at bars and taking home chicks? That shit was fun as fuck. This covid generation is gunna completely miss that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41517976)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:28 PM
Author: balding round eye

closest I got to this was going up to a hot ass Asian goddess in da club and I started dancing next to her on the dance floor. She just turned around took a sip of her drink from her straw and in a very sexy but disgusted tone looked at me in the eyes and said "NO", then showed me the hand. I walked away, have been analyzing that last field test for years bros

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518003)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2020 11:31 PM
Author: dull slap-happy tanning salon

Cr. I realize this may sound gay as fuck, but for me the thrill of the chase and the conquest was often more thrilling than the hookup itself

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518022)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 6:21 PM
Author: Brilliant fragrant library



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41522592)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 12:18 AM
Author: Stimulating Metal Area

a junior associate at my old firm went on a date with some PUA expert guy. she came into the office the next day and was raving about how great he was at conversation. as she was talking, she looked him up online and saw he gave PUA seminars locally and i started laughing. she asked what it was and was disgusted and felt so manipulated she swore him off...lol.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518240)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 12:46 AM
Author: aphrodisiac sienna wrinkle

Lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518345)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 12:53 AM
Author: Stimulating Metal Area

it was weird but just goes to show how easy it is to play women. she couldnt believe how attentive he was and said all the right things and looked into her eyes and was so smooth. i did feel kinda bad seeing her hopes dashed that quickly though...she did a complete 180 and was embarrassed she fell for his game

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518374)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 1:05 AM
Author: aphrodisiac sienna wrinkle

Well getting women to like you once they’re talking to you is super easy if you’re smart, funny, attentive, and are confident or can fake it. The hard part of “game” is rising in looks/money/status or convincingly faking enough of one or more of those traits to make attractive women think that they should listen to your pitch.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518409)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2020 7:34 AM
Author: Self-centered stubborn field national security agency

Was it Tyler?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41525624)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 12:19 AM
Author: flushed hissy fit roommate

they're all happily married, no more to complain about

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518247)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 1:05 AM
Author: Nofapping Legal Warrant Alpha

what a different time! in my younger days i was always jonesing for them pink slime walls.

i can remember being in law library at tttoolane and walking past a bro combing through the fastseduction.com forums right out in the open. the conversation cocky/funny/kino/attitude/frame shit was legit.

i remember meeting up with a real dork LSU law kid in NOLA through the forums. pretty much a zero to me in looks: pasty, 5'10/145, glasses, shit facial aesthetics. but the kid ended up connecting with a decent associate chick at one of the bigger NOLA firms after a few weeks. he brought her to a bar to meet me and I was impressed. they seemed on their way to being a couple. when she went to the bathroom, he turned to me and exclaimed: "i mind fucked her. i MIND FUCKED her bro!!"



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41518412)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 6:26 PM
Author: Brilliant fragrant library

Tinder completed ended it in like 2014-2015. Then instagram/only fans ended hooking up. Now women just use their BBC dildo and camera for likes and simpbucks

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41522618)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 6:27 PM
Author: Hot meetinghouse volcanic crater

Trump sent the Indians back

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41522629)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 6:30 PM
Author: high-end amethyst sanctuary

this was the last window of opportunity for shortmos to have some sliver of a chance to get laid, but then dating apps appeared and hyper gamy was complete

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41522655)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2020 11:53 PM
Author: Laughsome casino candlestick maker

Dancing monkey frame

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41524593)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2020 7:17 AM
Author: Odious Locus

pretty much. mops and psychos.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41525590)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2020 3:23 PM
Author: Laughsome casino candlestick maker

what's a mop?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41528245)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 13th, 2020 6:30 PM
Author: Odious Locus

A nerd who is really into some scene. A fan. A stan. A true believer. A MARK

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41540785)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 13th, 2020 7:39 PM
Author: Laughsome casino candlestick maker

bugman

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41541075)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 14th, 2020 2:40 PM
Author: Odious Locus

Right.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41546582)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2020 7:17 AM
Author: Odious Locus

oh god I was in it from the beginning. what happened is it got played out.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41525588)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 11th, 2020 7:36 AM
Author: hideous box office

All the dorks became chads. No more customers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41525631)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 14th, 2020 3:18 PM
Author: Bipolar Pink Location

Incels switched to worshipping donald

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41546832)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 14th, 2020 5:15 PM
Author: Clear beta den community account

The blackpill/PSL has taken over and everyone has realized the only strategy that matters is selecting the right implants and osteotomies.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41547538)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 14th, 2020 5:15 PM
Author: topaz address mad-dog skullcap

We shall see what unfolds.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41547543)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 14th, 2020 5:19 PM
Author: crawly mildly autistic pocket flask

Style got caught sucking Ross Jeffries’ cock in a Bugatti parked outside some club in Miami and died of AIDS two years later, 2017 or so I believe. No one from the scene wanted to pour the effort and money into managing the PR fallout (“Become a PUA so you too can die of AIDS!”), so it just kind of petered out quietly

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41547552)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 14th, 2020 5:19 PM
Author: Ultramarine old irish cottage

H1B reform

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4708614&forum_id=2#41547557)