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Top 14 (the truth about the top 14)
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:27 AM Author: Coral Titillating Coffee Pot Famous Landscape Painting First-off, there is no sweet 16 beyond the NCAA (and Duke is the only great law school bragging about that).
There is the top 10 (firms do recognize this).
There is the top 14 (US News inadvertently created it by ranking 14 schools above all others, year after year).
There is the top 20 (firms recognize this one, too).
There is a top 100 (few firms care to hire beneath this margin, if possible).
Beyond that, every attempt to classify schools as part of the "Trinity," top 5, top 9, "sweet 16," top 25, 30, 40, 50...is meaningless.
Now I know that alot of people in the upper elite schools (and those aspiring to the elite), tend to beat up on Georgetown. But I will tell you right now, UT will never pass Georgetown. US News would reweight the rankings before allowing that.
Profs and students simply wouldn't accept US News' verdict. A new ranking system would be born (possibly one based in DC or the South, and Georgetown would boost itself up to 11).
The reason why there is no outrage that Berkeley fell out of the top ten, is because it is a state school which has been in decline for some time. Frankly, Boalt is out of resources, and they are planning to coast on past prestige for the next 10 yrs.
US News will keep them between 11 and 14, but unless Billy Gates donates 50mil or so, Boalt simply cannot keep up with private schools like Duke or Columbia.
Look to where the profs are going. UPenn is always sucking up the best talent from the likes of UCLA and Berkeley. Stanford just grabbed Lemley (Boalt's best prof) from Berkeley. In the past 2 yrs, Duke stole Chemerinsky from USC, a tax prof from Columbia, some nobody from UPenn (we fired him).....
The bottom line is that some schools are going up, and others are sinking or standing still.
This is the year of Yale, Duke, and Notre Dame. Private Schools are crushing public, and that is not going to change for our gen. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:29 AM Author: Aquamarine motley giraffe people who are hurt what constitues the top 10? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#92674) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:34 AM Author: Coral Titillating Coffee Pot Famous Landscape Painting I would say that the following schools are the "real" top ten...based on how little time each has spent out of it.
[in no particular order...]
Yale
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
NYU
UPenn
Duke
Chicago
Michigan
Virginia |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 3:10 PM Author: Navy principal's office hasn't duke been out of the top-10 far more than they have been in? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#95248) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 7:11 PM Author: angry national windowlicker For that matter, why not Cornell or NU in the T10? This is why the T10 idea makes no sense. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#97837) |
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Date: January 25th, 2006 12:19 AM Author: Massive obsidian multi-billionaire field Because Cornell, NU, and Duke aren't generally ranked in the top 10. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4905934) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 10:55 PM Author: harsh burgundy plaza gaming laptop You're really a Duke troll.
Duke has been out of the top 10 quite often, unlike the other schools.
Also, no one else would rank Duke ahead of Chicago or the other programs. (Ranking Penn ahead of them all was clearly just an effort to continue your "Penn-troll" disguise.) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 10:57 PM Author: Vengeful roast beef Duke=11-13 (Nothing wrong with that) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#100078) |
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Date: January 25th, 2006 12:19 AM Author: Massive obsidian multi-billionaire field Tit credit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4905938) |
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Date: January 26th, 2006 1:37 AM Author: Henna offensive forum you're a fucking moron who can't read. have fun at your TTT, bitch.
good fucking god.
"[in no particular order]"
for people who talk a lot of shit, this is pathetic.
want to call someone a troll for a school? fine. but pick a fucking cogent point, you fucking idiot. abort yourself. retroactively. fuckhead.
edit: i'm a fucking moron who can't read timestamps. i can make it a murder/suicide. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:30 AM Author: vigorous brunch mad-dog skullcap what about public schools like UVa and Michigan that have massive endowments? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#92685) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:32 AM Author: Haunting mood parlor Which have tuition rates as high as the privates.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#92705) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:32 AM Author: Coral Titillating Coffee Pot Famous Landscape Painting Even they have been hurt by the lack of public funding. They are used to the extra cash. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#92709) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:34 AM Author: Haunting mood parlor Michigan has 80% out of state with those 80% paying nearly 30k/year. They don't need much state funding for the law school to be charging as much per student as the big privates.
Not sure if UVa is similar. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:36 AM Author: Coral Titillating Coffee Pot Famous Landscape Painting UVA is cheap as sh___ for in-staters. I think about half their class is from Virginia. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#92751) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:36 AM Author: Haunting mood parlor I know they do take more instate that michigan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#92755) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:38 AM Author: Coral Titillating Coffee Pot Famous Landscape Painting Virginia will probably fall out of the top ten once or twice in the next 5 yrs. However, Berkeley is in worse shape and Cornell is out of gas (despite private funding). I think UVA will probably become the vanguard of the top ten like Georgetown is for the top 14. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#92773) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:41 AM Author: Haunting mood parlor Don't you mean the rear guard? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#92804) |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 10:34 PM Author: Peach Gas Station Voyeur You stupid moron. UVA is not cheap as shit for instaters.
And instaters are ~40% of the class. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:41 AM Author: bateful meetinghouse Michigan Law gets, at most, 1% of its budget from the state, and UVa gets no state money at all (I think). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#92797) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:42 AM Author: Avocado casino milk Now their budgets have gone down, but a few yrs ago, the states were donors in chief. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#92812) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:04 PM Author: Provocative Doobsian Hall UVA Law is completely privately funded. The break was finalized last year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#100167) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:42 PM Author: Vengeful roast beef Michigan has the 5th largest endowment after HYS and Columbia. I call bullshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#94346) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:32 PM Author: canary multi-colored sweet tailpipe This is unlikely. Law school endowmenta are separate from university endowments, and NYU law had a bigger one than Columbia for quite some time. Columbia had a big fundraising drive, and NYU built their new building instead, so I think Columbia's might be larger now, but I don't think Michigan passed NYU as well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#100428) |
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Date: April 6th, 2004 9:38 AM Author: Vengeful roast beef 1. Harvard - $892
2. Yale - $500
3. Stanford - $326
4. Columbia- $298
5. Michigan - $227
6. NYU - $217
7. Chicago - $185
7. Cal-Berkeley - $185
9. Virginia - $163
10. Southern Cal - $151
11. Texas - $151
12. Northwestern - $134
13. Notre Dame - $120
14. Washington - $111
15. Georgetown - $108
16. Mercer - $76
17. Minnesota - $75
19. Duke - $70
20. Case Western Reserve - $66
EDIT:This is for law schools for the year 2001
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:11 PM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker "There is the top 14 (US News inadvertently created it by ranking 14 schools above all others, year after year)."
Well if USNews is going to be your only compass, then it should be "Sweet 16". 16 Schools have been ranked "above all others, year after year" for the last 9 consecutive years.
Not to mention, both Texas AND UCLA are the only schools "outside" the so-called "Top 14" which have at least once been MEMBERS of the Top 14 (UT #11 in '87, UCLA #14 in '87).
P.S. - I don't think the Sweet 16 thing ever had to do with raw score ranking in the first place; It dealt primarily with academic reputation of America's "elite" law schools over the last 10-15 years or so (as per some Duke professor's empirical study in some Law Review). |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:16 PM Author: charismatic outnumbered public bath What seperates UT from Georgetown that makes 14 vs. 15 a clear demarkation line? I don't get it.
Clearly, the top firms don't get it either, because the recruit on campus at UT just as actively as they do at Cornell, Georgetown or Boalt. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:21 PM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker I never said their was a demarcation line, the OP did.
Firms recruit just as actively at UCLA as they do at UT, Cornell, Georgetown or Boalt as well. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:24 PM Author: Ivory hairraiser party of the first part Yes, the same firms recruit at UT and UCLA. Nobody is disputing whether or not they show up at OCI. The question is how deep in the class they are willing to go. They are only at UT and UCLA for the top of the class.
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:29 PM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker "They are only at UT and UCLA for the top of the class. "
Well, if you consider 3.3 (roughly top 1/3) to be "top of the class", then sure...since that's all you need at either school to interview with the likes of Skadden or Sullivan and Cromwell.
I doubt this is much different at Georgetown or Northwestern. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:36 PM Author: Ivory hairraiser party of the first part Skadden (per Martindale)
Georgetown: 114 UT: 17 UCLA: 37 (mostly in LA office)
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:34 PM Author: marvelous low-t nursing home trust fund Georgetown has a massive class, which accounts for some of this disparity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#94265) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:38 PM Author: Ivory hairraiser party of the first part As does UT.
And you would expect the LA office of Skadden to hire the top UCLA students. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 5:46 PM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker Funny, i just did a Martindale search for Skadden and found:
University of California, Los Angeles: 67
NOTE: Typing in "University of California 'at' Los Angeles, brings up an additional 15 new names.
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Date: January 26th, 2006 1:41 AM Author: bright nighttime macaca locus 3.3 is the median, roughly at UT.
it's a B+ median |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:26 PM Author: Ivory hairraiser party of the first part Most of the firms recruiting at UT are Texas firms. Accordingly, UT grads have it much harder placing out of state. If you aren't in the top 25% at UT, your chances are pretty much nil.
80% of UT grads stay in state, but the self-selection factor everyone cites is as much a self-fulfilling prophecy as it is student preference.
GULC places 2/3 of their class in NYC/DC - two of the top legal markets. The firms are from all over the country. Private practice 25/75 is 125K/125K. Those sort of options are simply not available from UT, particularly if you are not in the top of the class.
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:31 PM Author: charismatic outnumbered public bath I know you know this, but if 80% of the kids at UT are from Texas, doesn't it make sense that most of those kids would want to stay in Texas? The real question is not how many people UT places out of state, but how many people who want to go out of state are able to be placed in DC, NYC, or LA. And the fact is that when firms like Cravath (#1 NY firm), Covington Burling (#1 DC firm), and Lantham and Watkins (#1 LA firm) all recruit on site, you know you'll have options. Obviously you will need to do quite well but there are no limitations. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#93455) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:55 PM Author: Ivory hairraiser party of the first part Ah, but by your own admission there are limitations! You need to do quite well at UT to have those options and that's simply not assured, nor is it as easy as you might think. I know some intelligent people at UT that worked really hard and are roughly top 1/3.
Again, those top firms are only there for the top UT students. Top 25% is the unofficial cutoff to even have a chance.
At GULC, you have all those options even if you are not in the top of the class. You can easily land the best Texas jobs and you are also in the running for the top NY/DC firms. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:07 PM Author: charismatic outnumbered public bath No, you are mischaracterizing my point. I promise you no average GTown students are getting placed at Cravath. Similarly to GULC, a top half UT student could get a job in DC or NYC, just not the very top firms.
You need to prove to me that a student at the X percentile at GULC has a better chance of placing in NYC or LA than a student at the X percentile at UT. I am almost positive you will not be able to show this. In DC, probably, because it has the home turf advantage. But I bet a GULC student would have little luck placing at Baker Botts for the same reason. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:15 PM Author: Ivory hairraiser party of the first part You are setting up a straw man.
I hope you enjoy UT and your job in Houston.
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:37 PM Author: charismatic outnumbered public bath How the hell am I setting up a strawman? That's a ridiculous statement. Do you even know what a strawman is?
I asked a simple question: Do you have a shred of evidence that shows that similarly ranked GULC students place better outside of DC than equivalent UT students place at those same cities?
What could possibly be strawman in that? |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 2:19 PM Author: Ivory hairraiser party of the first part I never alleged you have actually made a strawman - I only said you were laying the framework for such an argument. However, by ending your post in "what could possibly be strawman in that" (that being something which I never claimed to be a strawman) you have, rather ironically, offerred an independent strawman (a misrepresentation/refutation of a claim never made).
In any event, you were asking me to prove something you recognize cannot be decisively proven. I've never claimed that similarly ranked GULC students place better outside of DC than UT students in those same cities, although that's how you are attempting to pigeonhole my position. Nevertheless, GULC's placement statistics would seem to indicate they do in fact place better than UT. The best I can offer is what I already have: 45% of GULC's class goes to NYC, which is more than end up staying in DC.
But its whatever. It sounds like you might fit in better with the student body at UT anyway. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 6:15 PM Author: spectacular light hunting ground tattoo Subject: I'd like to point out... That one major reason for choosing UT over G-Town is that G-Town is simply a miserable place to go to school, while UT students love their time in Austin. Ask anyone who goes/went to G-Town, they'll say they hate/d it. While it might place better in DC (obviously) and NYC (once again, look at a map), I just don't think 3 years of hating life is worth it. I'll take my top-15 reasonably priced education in an enjoyable city and climate, over three years of hating life in one of DC's worst neighborhoods. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#97306) |
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Date: April 6th, 2004 12:40 AM Author: Bespoke parlour "Ask anyone who goes/went to G-Town, they'll say they hate/d it."
I go to GULC, and I like it. *shrugs* |
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Date: January 26th, 2006 1:51 AM Author: bright nighttime macaca locus difference is we emphasize how fucking much we like it here (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4910940) |
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Date: August 29th, 2006 4:01 AM Author: frozen chad orchestra pit I'm having the fucking time of my life at Gtown... so I don't know what the hell you are talking about.
I do agree that about 50% of a law school class will complain about their school however due to the fact that they are total fucking losers. |
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Date: August 29th, 2006 11:40 AM Author: Pearly medicated goal in life office well, I'm one of those people who ended up at roughly top 1/3 after 1st year and had the maximum number of OCI interviews and more callbacks than I could handle 1/3 being out-of-state major markets. Surely I didn't get 30 interviews and someone who only cracked the top 40% or 50% was shut out. I know lots of people in the same situation, many of whom took jobs in DC/Atlanta/New York/San Francisco/Seattle and Los Angeles (I don't recall anyone choosing to go to Chicago).
But do you have a better shot at the east coast firms by going to GULC? duh, yeah. Do you have a better shot at West Coast firms by going to UCLA? Of course. This should go without saying. And your odds of getting into the top Texas firm goes up by going to UT. The old advice remains the same. You should go to Harvard, or the best school you can get into in the state/region you want to practice in.
Oh yeah, and I ultimately made the choice to go with Texas firms because I want to stay in Texas, where the work is good, the people nice, the money excellent, the cost of living low and the winters tolerable. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:19 PM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker "UT will never pass Georgetown. US News would reweight the rankings before allowing that."
Riiight. They'll change their entire methodology just to help a school they have no ties or loyalty to. Bullshit. If UT can put up the numbers, they'll easily overtake Gtown. It's putting up the numbers thats gonna be hard.
If USNWR were going to change their methodology for ANY school whatsoever, it would be Penn, since 3 of USNWR's head editors are UPENN grads, and one of their largest offices -- if not their HQ -- is based in Philly.
Most people think USNWR already DOES grossly over-rate Penn (both for law schools, med schools, and UGs) due to this fact.
HTH
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:20 PM Author: stirring state incel The one thing you are off about is the "top 20" thing. After the national schools (and perhaps ucla and ut)everything becomes regional. Fordham grads have a much better shot at nyc biglaw than do vandy minn or iowa. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#93288) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:22 PM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker "US News will keep [Berkeley] between 11 and 14"
I don't think we'll see Boalt outside the Top 10 again.
"UPenn is always sucking up the best talent from the likes of UCLA and Berkeley."
Care to substantiate that with any evidence? Seems like Sax, Farber and Frickley are enjoying their stay at Boalt. While Volokh, Yeazell, Stark, and Crenshaw won't leave UCLA for love nor money. All of the aformentioned "talent" has been given offers from the likes of HY and Chicago...but i guess there's just somethin about that California sunshine which keeps them from being whored :-) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:51 PM Author: Coral Titillating Coffee Pot Famous Landscape Painting Face it. Without a major donor, Berkeley doesn't have the $$$$$ to make it back in the top ten. UPenn is always spending gobs of money, and Duke is set to blow another 20 million on capital improvements alone over the next two yrs.
We may never see Dolt hall in the top ten again. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:55 PM Author: Avocado casino milk Berkeley sucks, but not as bad as UT. Heh, you'd have to be a sucker to pick UT over G-town or Cornell. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#93788) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:56 PM Author: Ivory hairraiser party of the first part What about GULC over Duke? ;) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#93795) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 12:59 PM Author: Avocado casino milk Take my advice with a grain of salt (my name is Duke Fan), but you would have to be crazy to take G-town over Duke.
Duke's USNews index=81
G-town's=76
Duke has always been higher ranked than G-town, and it only has to use its prestige to sell 200 grads v. G-town's 600 or 700.
Frankly, I think even Berkeley is superior to G-town (for now). |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 10:57 PM Author: Gaped center travel guidebook GULC is aiming to improve their professional and academic rating. I think they are going to play the #'s game hard to try and rise into the top 12.
Also, I think Duke is a rising school. My guess is UVA will drop out of the top 10 (do to poor faculty hiring) and Cornell will also fall back opening it up for schools like NW Duke and GULC.
Michigan, for all it's money seems to constantly be on the decline. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:08 PM Author: Awkward blood rage rigpig Please, Cornell > Duke (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#93919) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 10:46 PM Author: Gaped center travel guidebook Watch out for GULC. The school is filthy rich. Money problems for schools 1-13 means a nice opening for a school like GULC. We just built 3 new building making us the largest law school in the country (6 buildings) and there is A LOT more money to be spent.
For all the things I don't like about GULC, I LOVE being at a rich law school. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 10:49 PM Author: Vengeful roast beef Georgetown is 15th for endowment size.
HTH |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 10:55 PM Author: Gaped center travel guidebook I don't know what their endowment is but I do know that the school has no money problems and is using it to their advantage. Yearly contributions can easily make up the difference. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#100056) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 10:56 PM Author: Vengeful roast beef You assume that other schools arent doing the same.
For example Michigan (a state school) has the 5th largest endowment. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 10:59 PM Author: Gaped center travel guidebook having a large endowment doesn't represent the full amount of money a school can spend right now. I know that UVA is raising their tution up to 27k a year over the next couple of years, all the CAL schools are hurting, and that Cornell is also having money issues (or the university is). We all know money buys ranking from US News & Report. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#100113) |
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Date: August 29th, 2006 12:37 AM Author: Cobalt razzle-dazzle home ND trolling (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#6517775) |
Date: April 5th, 2004 1:13 PM Author: Free-loading patrolman Just be happy you got into Georgetown,great place. Everyone needs to chill on the rankings. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#93983) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:30 PM Author: Coral Titillating Coffee Pot Famous Landscape Painting G-town is better than everyone beneath them, and definitely worse than everyone above.
Cornell is historically a weaker school than Duke, and it continues in that tradition. Unless Cornell gave you BIG$$$$$$, go with Duke. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:38 PM Author: Avocado casino milk Everyone is historically a weaker school than Duke. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#94309) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 1:44 PM Author: Vengeful roast beef Cornell and Duke have similar academic reps. How is Cornell weaker? (academic rep score had a high response rate). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#94375) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 2:25 PM Author: supple walnut immigrant Subject: my $0.02c here's how i'd rank the elite schools based on the relatively large exposure i've had to law profs and partners at big la/nyc/bos/chi firms:
1. yale 2. harvard/stanford 3. chicago 4. columbia, maybe nyu (depending on region) 5. michigan/penn/virginia, maybe berkeley 6. cornell/duke/NU/GULC |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 3:25 PM Author: Lavender Organic Girlfriend PennTroll and Dukefan:
If the schools in your moniker are admitting people as ignorant and logically challenged as the two of you, the schools can't be all that great.
This is really a golden bit of advice:
>>>". . . you would have to be crazy to take G-town over Duke.
Duke's USNews index=81
G-town's=76"
This isn't basketball.
Why not provide some evidence--placement stats, for example--that would indicate that Penn or Duke places better than Georgetown, Cornell or NU?
I'll save you the trouble--there isn't any. But, by all means, go to Duke and enjoy your clerkship with the Mayberry County judge. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 5:39 PM Author: Avocado casino milk You want a stat, I'll give you a stat.
Duke is the only school in the top ten (or the top 20) with 100% employment 9 months out.
Cornell had a similar statistic last year, but admitted it was a typo (or lie, rather).
I think the Dukeys would rather enjoy their App. and SC Court clerkships, though. So you feel free to clerk for any hick in "Mayberry" that you want. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 6:03 PM Author: Vengeful roast beef Except Duke shouldnt be in the top 10 at the expense of the Berkeley. Dukes SCOTUS & APP clerkships stats are not very impressive. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#97192) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 7:02 PM Author: Avocado casino milk Duke is eyeing the top 6 now. Berkeley isn't even on their radar.
Boalt is barely top teen now. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 8:28 PM Author: Navy principal's office TEEN. As in Duke is eyeing the top sixTEEN. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#98358) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 7:05 PM Author: iridescent indirect expression SCOTUS clerkships should not be viewed as a measurement of a schools quality. The only thing it MIGHT measure is relative presige within the trinity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#97776) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 8:04 PM Author: Lavender Organic Girlfriend Not impressed...they've been fudging their stats the last couple years:
http://www.law.duke.edu/career/employstats.html
Please explain to me why Duke is placing better in a bad economy than it did 5 years ago in possibly the best economy in US history.
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Date: April 5th, 2004 7:50 PM Author: Violent Garrison There's definitely a top 4 in NYC: Yale, Harvard, Columbia, NYU. If you claim otherwise, you don't know what you're talking about. The next 5 or so (Penn, Stanford, Chicago, Mich, UVA) will land you a job, but YHCN have the strongest holds on the job market. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#98125) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 10:48 PM Author: Gaped center travel guidebook GULC places better in NYC then every school but Harvard, Columbia, NYU and Cornell. Or so they tell us. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#99945) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 10:49 PM Author: Vengeful roast beef you got gipped (jipped?). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#99966) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 10:53 PM Author: Gaped center travel guidebook just based on the #'s they put about 140 people in NY each year. That's pretty high. Also, when I talked to several NY law firms they all put GULC in the top 5 or 6 for law schools they recruit at. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#100041) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 10:57 PM Author: aromatic frisky address class size. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#100079) |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 11:12 PM Author: Plum exhilarant lay scourge upon the earth gypped. The origin of the word is a pejorative for Gypsies, which were stereotyped as thieves. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4905339) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:23 PM Author: Cerebral location cuckoldry Subject: BS That's b/s...ask any firm in NYC. Fordham School of Law places better in NYC than Gtown does. Biglaw, mid-sized, small -- in any category, Fordham will always have a slight edge over Gtown in terms of overall placement in NY. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#100338) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:27 PM Author: Lavender Organic Girlfriend No---and you Duke trolls need to go away.
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:29 PM Author: Cerebral location cuckoldry are you responding to my message? because i said nothing about Duke. Fordham places better than Gtown in NYC, period. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#100398) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:34 PM Author: Lavender Organic Girlfriend Duke ref. = your moniker
Also, your ignorance is astounding; class rank equal, GTown > Fordham for everywhere including NYC.
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:39 PM Author: Cerebral location cuckoldry that's a silly argument. I said Fordham places better in NYC, perhaps some of that is self-selection, but it still doesn't refute the fact that MORE fordham law kids go to NYC biglaw firms than Gtown. No one ever said Gtown wasn't a better overall schools. You also misused the word "ignorance." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#100507) |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:51 PM Author: Lavender Organic Girlfriend Ignorance: lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified b : resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence
i.e.: you
"that's a silly argument. I said Fordham places better in NYC, perhaps some of that is self-selection, but it still doesn't refute the fact that MORE fordham law kids go to NYC biglaw firms than Gtown"
Fine, you're stupid. By your definition, Fordham places better in NYC than the Univ. of Chicago as well.
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:40 PM Author: Cerebral location cuckoldry By the way, my moniker has NOTHING TO DO WITH DUKE you idiot. Only you are ignorant -- Dukeminier is probably the most widely used Property textbook across the U.S. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#100516) |
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Date: April 6th, 2004 3:35 AM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker "Duke ref. = your moniker"
Jesse "Dukeminier" is perhaps one of the greatest Property Law scholars of the 20th Century. Wrote a ton of case books. Taught for years at UCLA. |
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Date: April 5th, 2004 11:29 PM Author: harsh burgundy plaza gaming laptop Michigan and UVa (I believe) have never been ranked outside the top 10. Michigan has always been ranked between the 6-8 spots (except for its first-year appearance at #3.) Usually, it's ranked in the 6-7 spot. More importantly, Michigan has always been ranked in the top 6 by lawyers, judges, and academics, ranging between ties for 1st and ties for 6th. UVa and Boalt have reputations only slightly behind this. Given that reputation is the single most important factor in terms of placement, and the strongest factor in USNews, it's doubtful that the top publics will be going anywhere soon. (Michigan and UVa are both top 5 in terms of national elite-firm placement -- Boalt would be comparable if not for self-selection preference for California. Michigan and UVa are also both top 7 in SCOTUS placement.)
NYU may have cracked the top 5 by virture of location and all-around quality, but there's no reason to expect other schools to displace most traditional top-ten programs simply by virtue of a marginally greater focus on numbers. (NYU, of course, was always a top-ten program.) |
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Date: April 6th, 2004 12:03 AM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker "Michigan and UVa (I believe) have never been ranked outside the top 10."
UVA was #14 in 1994.
"Usually, [Michigan]'s ranked in the 6-7 spot.
Ranked in the 8 Spot: 4 times; Ranked in the 7 Spot: 9 times; Ranked in the 6 Spot: Twice
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Date: April 6th, 2004 1:09 AM Author: Grizzly crackhouse "Usually, [Michigan]'s ranked in the 6-7 spot. Ranked in the 8 Spot: 4 times; Ranked in the 7 Spot: 9 times; Ranked in the 6 Spot: Twice
Uh, yeah. That's 11 times in 6-7, and 4 times in 8.
11 out of 15 qualifies as usually where I come from.
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Date: April 6th, 2004 3:38 AM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker "11 out of 15 qualifies as usually where I come from"
Never said it didn't. I was just giving you some statistics to validate your argument.
So much for accomodating people. Sheesh. |
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Date: April 6th, 2004 2:22 PM Author: Avocado casino milk The truth is, Duke is superior to UPenn. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#104999) |
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Date: April 6th, 2004 2:23 PM Author: Vengeful roast beef The truth is that is not true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#105014) |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 9:20 PM Author: passionate misanthropic spot the only thing that matters is academic rep... in this respect, penn and duke arent even t10... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4904383) |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 10:44 PM Author: splenetic useless site messiness little slow there (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4905070) |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 9:40 PM Author: Confused Wonderful Selfie University If there is a clear line demarking the top 20 schools that employers pay attention to then how come schools ranked around 19-22 continually drop in and out of the top 20.
Im talking about GW, Washington and Lee and Fordham type schools. |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 9:41 PM Author: arrogant milky cumskin native Fordham trolling. 141 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4904582) |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 10:39 PM Author: Peach Gas Station Voyeur My god KillingYouSoftly is a filthy UCLA troll, even 2 years ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4905026) |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 10:49 PM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker Dude, get off my dick. Two years ago I was the *ONLY* UCLA representative on this board. In fact, until Drew Sucksoe came around, I was still pretty much the only active voice at UCLA on xo, so somebody had to stand up for the school when it was getting flamed.
While i don't resent the "troll" comments, I find it funny how posters like you believe that posting facts/figures/statistics about one's school automatically makes them a "troll". I've never made any outrageous claims about my alma mater, and have always backed up my contentions on this board with data, from day one. |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 10:59 PM Author: Racy glassy gaping Date: April 5th, 2004 12:22 PM Author: KillingYouSoftly
"US News will keep [Berkeley] between 11 and 14"
I don't think we'll see Boalt outside the Top 10 again.
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Date: January 24th, 2006 11:03 PM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker Last time I checked, claims that began "I don't think..." were called *opinions*. So sue me for being a poor fortune-teller.
It still doesn't change the fact that my posts about UCLA are factual, if not anecdotal.
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Date: January 24th, 2006 11:05 PM Author: Racy glassy gaping It's fine, but when you're doing a line-item rejection of another post, you deserve to be re line-itemed when you end up wrong. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4905261) |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 11:06 PM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker In that case, well played. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4905273) |
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Date: January 25th, 2006 12:10 AM Author: Bossy death wish HUZZAH! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4905856) |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 11:01 PM Author: arrogant milky cumskin native The UCLA comments are no more aggregious than the rampant Fordham trolling going on lately. I love how this is the 2nd time that someone has said that Fordham hovers in and out of the top 20 when they are ranked 27th and were ranked well into the 30's last year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4905225) |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 11:04 PM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker I don't ever recall Fordham being in the Top 20 in any of the rankings since 1987.
Their student selectivity has been ranked in the Top 20 before, though. |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 11:07 PM Author: arrogant milky cumskin native What school besides Minnesota could they displace based on selectivity? Besides I can think of a number of schools ranked lower than Fordham that are more selective.
Fordham is VERY lucky to be ranked in the 20's. |
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Date: January 24th, 2006 11:10 PM Author: Odious sickened candlestick maker I don't remember the report/ranking I saw, but I think it had Fordham at #17 based on selectivity. I remember it placing a lot of emphasis on LSAT scores. This was like 2 years ago, however, so the admissions standards may have changed since then. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4905321) |
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Date: August 28th, 2006 9:12 PM Author: Jet hospital dopamine Subject: Student Body Rankings If you go just off LSATs, then schools like Richmond seem better. That school barely had 50% employment last year. Firms are not clamoring for these "quality" students. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#6516301) |
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Date: August 28th, 2006 9:19 PM Author: carmine fat ankles Why would you reply to a post over 6 months old? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#6516333) |
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Date: January 25th, 2006 12:13 AM Author: galvanic jap ratface I suspect that if you asked an attorney what schools constitute the top 10 off the top of his/her head, the person would list 12-14 of the top 15 schools, depending on the region and person. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4905892) |
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Date: January 25th, 2006 12:23 AM Author: Massive obsidian multi-billionaire field Perhaps. But USNews asks attorneys nationally every year, and a consistent edge exists between HYSCCNMVB and most other schools. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4905980) |
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Date: January 25th, 2006 12:26 AM Author: galvanic jap ratface They ask a lot more NYC attorneys than TX or LA attorneys. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4906003) |
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Date: January 25th, 2006 12:27 AM Author: Massive obsidian multi-billionaire field This is true, and similarly, UCLA (and USC) are probably top 14 schools in L.A.
These are fine gradations, clearly. |
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Date: January 25th, 2006 12:18 AM Author: Massive obsidian multi-billionaire field Couple points:
Duke is not a top 10 school, and is clearly inferior to Boalt.
UT is considered by professors as comparable to Gtown, if not better, and has a stronger faculty than Duke.
Boalt has a stronger faculty than Georgetown, Duke, or Penn.
There is in fact a traditional top 5 or 6, which includes HYS, CC, and Michigan, along with NYU today. There is then the top 10 (including UVA, Boalt, and Penn). After this, there are a number of other strong schools, including NU, Duke, Cornell, Gtown, UCLA, Texas, Vandy, etc. |
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Date: January 25th, 2006 12:28 AM Author: Histrionic Cyan Dingle Berry Hi Brian. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#4906030) |
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Date: August 28th, 2006 10:02 PM Author: Disrespectful Laughsome Base Yarmulke Fucking nerds. This is pathetic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#6516597) |
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Date: August 28th, 2006 10:06 PM Author: black double fault business firm way to lay down the law....8 months later (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#6516615) |
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Date: August 29th, 2006 3:08 AM Author: Umber menage i came into this thread expecting something substantial. i now realize you're just a duke troll. why do i even bother? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#6518422) |
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Date: August 29th, 2006 9:58 AM Author: contagious national security agency haven't you heard? it's the HLS of the South! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=6286&forum_id=2#6518835) |