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Date: August 21st, 2004 9:20 AM Author: aggressive idea he suggested Subject: Same as PRs QuickFire I was encouraged to post on this site as well. It seems to be similar to the Princeton Review site of old. I am a former admissions officer at a top 20 private institution. If you have questions about the admissions process, shoot them at me and I'll respond. very simple.
Two things: 1) don't ask questions about where I worked b/c I won't answer those 2) If you don't believe that I'm real that's fine, but put your posts elsewhere so that those who have real questions and want answers aren't distracted. |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 10:25 AM Author: House-broken cyan useless brakes gunner Well, whenever someone says they went to/worked at school X and patently refuses to reveal the name of said school, the thread will inevitably be about trying to guess that school.
Since you say top 20 and not top 10, we can assume it's a school ranked #11-20.
This narrows it down to (using the new rankings):
If it's a university
Northwestern WUSTL Brown Cornell Johns Hopkins Chicago Rice Notre Dame Vanderbilt Emory
or if it's an LAC:
Middlebury Vassar Claremont McKenna Smith Washington and Lee Colgate Grinnell Harvey Mudd Colby Hamilton
I'm going to go ahead and rule out Brown and Cornell, since if it was them you would have said "an ivy" instead of "a top 20". Would you be willing to reveal whether it was an LAC or a university? What region of the US it's in? |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 1:02 PM Author: Cream vibrant state xmattus, do you still have a log of what admissions offices are visiting the PR Database? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216680) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 6:00 PM Author: misanthropic pistol use last year's system, not this years; remember that he said the same thing last year,when WUSTL was top ten. He also said "private university," if i'm not mistaken, so that may rule out LACs.
so, i would assume it's one of the following:
Notre Dame, Vanderbilt, Emory, , Rice, Chicago, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern.
Furthermore, there's a good chance he would have said "Top 15" if it be a top 15 school/ Therefore, our options would be reduced to 16) Rice University 17) Brown University 18) Emory University 19) University of Notre Dame 20) Vanderbilt University
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Date: August 21st, 2004 10:26 AM Author: appetizing base will having too many strong points affect an applicant? and how much is too much? |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 10:50 AM Author: Aromatic sepia library I had a 3.2 GPA my first two high school years, but a 4.0 my Junior year. My essay explains why I suddenly started doing really well in school. My cumulative GPA is now ~3.5, so how would an admissions officer look at my grades? Would it be the equivalent of a 3.7, 3.8 for other people? Lower because I only had one year? Thanks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216495) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 3:41 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested No, a 3.5 would not be the equivalent of a 3.7 or 3.8. However, the upward trend in your grades is a good thing. If you keep up the strong grades into your senior year (in top level classes), it is possible that the committee would put less weight on your first and second year grades. I would focus on making sure that your senior year grades are top notch so that the junior year will not seem like a fluke. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1221244) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 11:10 AM Author: primrose disturbing cuckoldry native How much weight does SATII have on admission process? Would you say it is less or more than SATI?
What would you feel if a student has a poor grade in a course but his SATII in the same subject is much better? |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 3:44 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested SAT IIs are used as secondary to the SAT scores. Used just to support whether or not you're a strong tester. If the SATII score for a subject is really low, but the student did really well in that class, I would wonder how rigorous the school environment is and then question whether an A at that school really will prepare the student well for my university. If the SATII score was just average or a little below the average, I wouldn't think much of it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1221254) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 2:06 AM Author: soul-stirring grizzly temple How much different is a rank of 9% from 11%? When admitting somebody outside of the top 10%, even just by one place or two, do you feel like you're damaging your school's rank statistic? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1224301) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 2:07 AM Author: soul-stirring grizzly temple How much different is a rank of 9% from 11%? When admitting somebody outside of the top 10%, even just by one place or two, do you feel like you're damaging your school's rank statistic? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1224304) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 2:08 AM Author: passionate theater stage lolz n00b (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1224308) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 2:12 AM Author: soul-stirring grizzly temple Subject: Rank How much different is a rank of 9% from 11%? When admitting somebody outside of the top 10%, even just by one place or two, do you feel like you're damaging your school's rank statistic? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1224317) |
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Date: August 24th, 2004 7:11 PM Author: mind-boggling hell marketing idea cut (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1233855) |
Date: August 21st, 2004 11:35 AM Author: hateful sanctuary place of business Have you read The Early Admissions game or similar academic books on the admissions process? If so, what are your thoughts regarding the authors' findings and recommendations? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216550) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 3:46 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested I have not read any of those books. It was not encouraged at my office and while I would be curious about them when students or parents mentioned it, there were other books that I would prefer to read, so I never got around to it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1221265) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 12:20 PM Author: irradiated dopamine Shouldn't that TTT UPenn be prosecuted for leeching off of PENN STATE's prestige? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216592) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 12:33 PM Author: Topaz church You should be shot for that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216611) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 12:40 PM Author: irradiated dopamine you can't silence the truth, Hussein (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216620) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 12:43 PM Author: Bipolar garrison goal in life You can't handle the truth. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216622) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 12:45 PM Author: irradiated dopamine I speak the truth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216624) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 12:48 PM Author: Bipolar garrison goal in life Transferring? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216628) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 12:51 PM Author: irradiated dopamine filth comes out of your mouth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216635) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 12:56 PM Author: Bipolar garrison goal in life Keep the grades high.
:):) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 12:59 PM Author: irradiated dopamine possibly for med school :) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216670) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 1:00 PM Author: indigo learning disabled university circlehead and engineering. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216671) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 1:00 PM Author: Bipolar garrison goal in life Major is something other than a science, your grades will thank you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216672) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 1:01 PM Author: irradiated dopamine Bribing money goes a long way
Besides, i'm still not sure I want to be a doctor. If I'm positive, I'll change my major before junior year |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 1:04 PM Author: Bipolar garrison goal in life You are no assclown. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216689) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 3:11 PM Author: indigo learning disabled university circlehead true dat. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1217267) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 1:06 PM Author: Topaz church What could one major in that appeals to the scientific sense and involves minimal writing (writing for a class is the worst kind of writing)? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1216699) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 3:09 PM Author: Vermilion indian lodge liquid oxygen He's generous enough to post on this board. Stop being immature and causing him to change his mind. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1217259) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 3:10 PM Author: 180 impertinent clown stead See my other thread, called Mathhelp can I be your facebook buddy??
NOW |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 3:44 PM Author: Carmine haunting locale old irish cottage JHU isn't in the facebook (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1217346) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 3:45 PM Author: Topaz church It is now, Icarus. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1217347) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 3:12 PM Author: Slippery Stag Film Does your school have any quotas on how many applicants to take from a certain college if they decide to transfer in? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1217273) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 3:49 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested No we did not. We took very few transfer students and it really was just the strongest applicants. We did have preferences for schools that were on the same academic level as us, just because we knew the transition would be easier for the student. but other than that, it did not matter what school they went to. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1221281) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 3:20 PM Author: spruce cerebral center sex offender would you want to chat a while in AIM or MSN? if so, please add me:
Lesliecuadra@hotmail.com MSN Trovador16C AIM
I have tons of interesting questions, and your guidance would greatly be appreciated. Thanks a lot!!!! |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 7:59 PM Author: talking therapy shrine Ask them here so it will be a benefit to all applicants and not just you, troll. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1222343) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 5:17 PM Author: spruce cerebral center sex offender I would if I didn't get flamed so much, flamer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1227389) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 3:34 PM Author: at-the-ready amethyst crotch theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1217315) |
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Date: August 21st, 2004 3:37 PM Author: blue generalized bond That's the way it seems to me... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1217325) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 11:11 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested There was no direct comparison between applicants from the same school and no quotas. Highly selective institutions are familiar with the rigor of certain schools and we do know what courses are standard and which are more advanced. I placed a lot of importance on the course difficulty. I looked at weighted GPAs and class rank. No two applications are exactly the same, so I think that looking at it from the outsiders perspective it is easy to get the wrong impression of what the differences are between the applicants. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1223458) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 12:03 AM Author: heady copper haunted graveyard What about for schools outside the US? Was it any different in that situation? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1223895) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 9:46 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested International schools usually send us less applicants and so I think it becomes more difficult not to compare students to each other when you're only getting 2 students from the school and you don't have much familiarity with the way the school operates. So, unfortunately I think there is more comparison with international students (especially if they are not US citizens). But, there are still no quotas. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1228875) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 12:59 AM Author: at-the-ready amethyst crotch theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1219353) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 3:44 PM Author: titillating shimmering organic girlfriend gaming laptop just how important IS class rank for students who've transferred to over 6 schools since 9th grade? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1221257) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 4:57 PM Author: mind-boggling hell marketing idea Or just in general, how important is rank? Is there a big difference in being 1 versus 5 or 1 versus 20? Thanks! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1221531) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 11:24 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested Rank is important. Yes, 1 is better than five and better than 20. However, the difference between 4 and 5 isn't usually significant. If your school does deciles being in the top decile is an important academic element for most highly selective places. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1223578) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 5:05 PM Author: mentally impaired impressive piazza Wow, I thought I was weird going to four different high schools! It took four meetings with guidance counselors to get my current transcript worked out... The different leveling options are so confusing for class rank and weighted G.P.A. One school I went to had no levels, one had two levels, one had four levels but the upper two levels were only available for certain subjects, and my current one has three levels as well as a "non-leveled" option that means that class isn't factored into your weighted GPA or class rank. Anyway, it finally got worked out but only my classes from 11th grade and some of my 10th grade classes factor into my rank. Ahh, it's so insane... We should form a support group. ;)
So, err, anyway, I'm also interested to see the former admission officer's answer to your question. Also, does a student moving around so much change your expectations for EC's? |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 4:01 PM Author: Boyish Twisted Trust Fund Spot 1) Would you rather admit a 1350 with a 4.0 uw or a 1500 with a 3.5 uw, assuming everything else is equal.
2) Please describe aspects of your favorite essays, in terms of subject matter and style.
3) Are 4 recs too many? (ie history, english, bio, club coach)
thanks in advance! |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 4:32 PM Author: blathering prole I second these questions (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1221436) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 11:40 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested Nothing is ever equal. I pay more attention to trends than to an individual scores. The courseload is very important to me and trends with all of the testing would be important to see if the person is a generally strong tester, but maybe didn't have as strong of day with the testing of the SATs. However, I place more importance on the GPA (if the curric is strong) than the testing. But there were others in my office that thought differently...which is why the decision is not made by only one person. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1223727) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 11:54 PM Author: misanthropic pistol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1223836) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 5:17 PM Author: at-the-ready amethyst crotch theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1221588) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 11:45 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested I looked at the list of other colleges with a superficial interest. The other schools listed make no impact on the eventual decision.
Teacher recommendations are taken quite seriously. Generic recommendations aren't "bad", but they're not good either. I would encourage you to speak with your teachers before hand and strongly encourage them to mention personal stories of you from class to make the rec not-generic. As for counselor recommendations, they are cursory in my opinion and I think my colleagues felt the same way. There is just so much variation between how much information they provide that I really usually do skim over them. But at some smaller private institutions they can be very detailed and very helpful. It helps to put the class load and the ECs into perspective. So, overall counselor recs are hit or miss in regards to how much they impact the decision. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 11:24 PM Author: Vermilion indian lodge liquid oxygen I know of people who had almost identical teacher recommendations and who applied during the same time. They were both accepted to a top 20 college. Part of the reason the recommendations were so similar were because the two applicants were basically identical people (not related to each other). Would admissions officers not care if recommendations are identical? For counselor recommendations, you're saying that a non detailed letter won't hurt the applicant but that a detailed letter can help? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1229602) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 7:36 PM Author: Boyish Twisted Trust Fund Spot If the school offers its own app and the common app, is it true that colleges subconsciously favor their own app, even though they sign a pact that says both are treated equally?
Please reveal any dirty admissions secrets that you hestitate to tell students in real life - ie, if youre a minority with great test scores, youre pretty much in... |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 7:38 PM Author: misanthropic pistol "if youre a minority with great test scores, youre pretty much in..."
not how it works. i am living proof. i almost prayed that i'd get screwed over like this just to prove all the affirmative action whiners wrong. |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 7:45 PM Author: Boyish Twisted Trust Fund Spot "pretty much"
i know people who would give their left nut to go to columbia. of course you prob had the stats/ecs to back it up, but hardly ever do i hear adcomms acknowledge that legacies, urms, and recruited athletes get huge boosts. |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 7:51 PM Author: misanthropic pistol Well, but even places like JHU, Georgetown, and Colgate refused to accept me.
Columbia was an anomaly, and I can prove conclusively that I didn't get in because of affirmative action/minority status at all, but then I'd sort-of have to "brag." I guess I just gave them good vibes, for some inexplicable reason.
Anyway, good scores are not what give minorities huge boosts in admissions at most schools. They look for a very specific "type" --VERY high grades, especially valedictorian; 1350+ SAT I;relatively high SAT II; and some intangible crap like leadership. |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 7:53 PM Author: Boyish Twisted Trust Fund Spot true that. i cant believe colgate didnt take you while colubmia (which has a crazy 11% acceptance rate) did. did you not visit the other schools or something? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1222311) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 8:09 PM Author: misanthropic pistol Subject: *long, boring, but slightly informative post alert* I tend to believe that I got rejected at Georgetown and JHU, and waitlisted at Colgate because of yield-consciousness and lack of demonstrated interest on my behalf, but this may just be my latent arrogance kicking in. I probably got rejected because I'm a scary weirdo, or because of that D in Gym on my report card, despite my varsity letters.
JHU and Georgetown are very yield/rankings-conscious. JHU sent me a shady app that I didn't even request and gave me a fee waiver and 30-day extension, followed by another unsolicited 15-day extension. On their app, they asked a series of questions like "have you ever visited JHU?" "did you ever participate in JHU talent search?" etcetera. First off, the fee-waiver/extension was in my opinion a ploy to get acceptance rates down, and the questions were meant as yield-protectors. Could it have been my grades? My GPA was average for JHU; 29% of their students are in the second decile or lower. Colgate's ploy to get apps up and acceptance rate down is the "free internet application," of which I also took advantage at the last minute. I don't know. I ended up getting waitlisted. About 40% of Colgate's class had my class rank or a lower one.
Georgetown is another school which has traditionally accepted students with lower class ranks. However, on the app I truthfully answered when they asled what other schools I was applying to (I applied to quite a few schools); when my interviewer asked, I also told him. Additionally, Georgetown asked for a "Why Georgetown?" essay on their application. I made it up in the 15 minutes before the post office closed.
Again, I probably just got rejected for being weird and/or lazy. |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 8:12 PM Author: Boyish Twisted Trust Fund Spot jhu is a scary school. i went there for cty camp during middle school and it was quite fun, but the students seem very unhappy and such. are you going to be a freshman this year at columbia then? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1222407) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 8:19 PM Author: misanthropic pistol yeah, unless I get arrested in the next week (a real possibility), and if I didn't make it clear before (sorry I lost sight of your question) no, I didn't visit Colgate, Georgetown, or JHU. Both JHU and my Georgetown interviewer asked me this.
I didn't visit Chicago or Williams either, but they are way less yield/rankings-conscious. |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 8:16 PM Author: Bipolar garrison goal in life Letters in what? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1222434) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 8:20 PM Author: misanthropic pistol Wrestling, cross-country, track. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1222451) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 8:04 PM Author: Vermilion indian lodge liquid oxygen BULLSHIT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1222367) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 8:10 PM Author: misanthropic pistol Why did you capitalize all the letters? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1222395) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 8:12 PM Author: Vermilion indian lodge liquid oxygen I'll change it if that will make you happy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1222409) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 8:15 PM Author: misanthropic pistol Why do you want to make me happy? Why was my post BULLSHIT? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1222425) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 8:16 PM Author: Vermilion indian lodge liquid oxygen If yr going to have this attitude, I'll change it back. You should know why. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1222433) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 8:18 PM Author: misanthropic pistol "If yr going to have this attitude, I'll change it back. You should know why."
hahahaha
that's the gayest Ive ever heard you sound. I just imagined you saying that with a lisp and adding "Mister" after "attitude."
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 2:14 AM Author: Slippery Stag Film HAHAHA (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1224327) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 11:37 PM Author: misanthropic pistol hahaha. you changed it! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1223700) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 11:50 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested The only reason that I would suggest filling out the school's own application is because the questions are normally better than those on the common application. The common application is so generic that the essays and answers most students provide are equally as generic. However, when it comes down to it, they are seen in the same way. For example, if the same essay and responses were attached to either the common app or the individual app, I would not read it any differently. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1223808) |
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Date: August 22nd, 2004 11:56 PM Author: misanthropic pistol thanks for coming here; please forgive our abuse. it's all meant in good fun. well, now i want to ask you a kind of sensitive question. can you honestly tell us how minority cases were handled? as a member of an ethnic minority myself, i fear that people will think that affirmative action the only reason i got into college, even though it played no part in my acceptance.
my theory has been that schools do not just lower standards for minority applicants, as some people suggest. it seems that schools look for a specific type of minority applicant to accept--one that has near-perfect grades and high SAT II's despite a slightly low (1350 or so) SAT I. is there any truth in this theory? |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 2:09 AM Author: Bat Shit Crazy Stimulating Set Cuck good question. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1224313) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 10:57 AM Author: misanthropic pistol yeah, not4nothing tried to ask this, but i sort of got us off tangent up there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1225088) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 6:04 PM Author: indigo learning disabled university circlehead you should wear a t shirt that has all your test scores printed on it. you'll get your ass kicked on a daily basis, but no one will bring AA into the picture.
saigon >>>>> ho chi minh. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 6:11 PM Author: misanthropic pistol hahaha
you dirty capitalist pig. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 9:34 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested I do not think that the race of a student has as much to do with the way they're evaluated as their particular background does. If a student has come from an underprivleged school or family background and yet they still have achieved academically, this is significant. This tells a lot about their priorities and their dedication to academics.
Now, when looking in a national context students of color are usually the primary student body for these underprivleged institutions. However, if a White student were to be from the same background they would be evaluated in the same manner.
The disparity between the average Black and Latino SAT scores and White students is fact. The reason for the huge difference is debatable. I personally question how much weight can be given to a test that students from particular groups (whether its race or class) seem to not perform as well as others...despite grades and school environment. It seems that the test is somehow flawed. But, it is the only measure we have currently and so I used it as a benchmark. If a student received above a certain range, that meant that they could probably handle the academic rigor of the school. Above that range I looked at all the other stuff. If they fell below that range, I had to have a pretty compelling academic evidence that the SAT score does not reflect their potential success. No school wants to admit students who will flunk out. We would not accept students of color or any student whose academic abilities are questionable.
That was a long answer and I do apologize for it. But, hopefully that will curtail the affirmative action related questions that are posted. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 9:58 PM Author: misanthropic pistol hmm...that's interesting, but how would a school go about evaluating such a thing as a student's "background" or class? It can't be based on the school or type of school the student attends...many poor kids like me who apply to top colleges were probably give a chance to attend private schools for free or for a reduced fee; the financial aid and admissions offices aren't supposed to communicate, right? Could this be determined by the student's address? I don't know, but you, as a pro, may be able to enlighten me on these issues. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1228966) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 10:29 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested You can get a good sense by the academic background of the parents, as well as the types of jobs that they hold. If a student goes to a private institution, the guidance counselor will typically mention if the student is on financial aid and other sorts of family differences of the student. Of course students applying for a fee waiver are seen as low income. We don't try to figure out how much the student will be able to pay for college, that sort of thing doesn't matter to need-blind institutions, but we do want to get as full of a picture of the student as possible and whether or not their facing difficulties that other applicants haven't makes a big impression. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1229157) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 12:06 AM Author: heady copper haunted graveyard Is there any real difference between an SAT score of 1450 and 1550-1600, in terms of admission decisions?
Would a relatively low GPA in the freshman year (say, around 3.0 to 3.5) affect one's chances, given that the student has gotten straight A's since 10th grade?
To reiterate a previous question: Are standards for ECs different at all for students that have changed high schools?
Would the answer to any of these questions be different if it concerned a student applying as an international? |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 2:13 AM Author: soul-stirring grizzly temple How much different is a rank of 9% from 11%? When admitting somebody outside of the top 10%, even just by one place or two, do you feel like you're damaging your school's rank statistic? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1224325) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 9:37 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested The number of students in the class plays a big part in the way rank is evaluated. If each percent is one person than the difference between 10% and 11% is not much. However, if each percent is 25 students, there is much more of a difference. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1228833) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 9:40 PM Author: heady copper haunted graveyard Could you answer some of my questions as well? That guy posted that thing about 5 times in this topic... ~_~
EDIT: Didn't see the time of your post... oops. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 9:43 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested Yes, there is a difference between a 1450 and a 1600. A 1450 is average and a 1600 is not.
Some schools do not even factor in 9th grade grades when evaluating the transcript. My institution does, but I think most of us put less weight on the first year and gave students the benefit of the doubt if the were able to pick their grades up in an increasingly more difficult curriculum.
We look at ECs in context. If a student has changed schools multiple times, we obviously wouldn't expect the same continuity that we would expect from students who have been at the same school for 3+ years. We also probably would understand if they didn't have many leadership positions, for the same reason.
Internationally students were read much more harshly at my institution, especially if they required financial aid. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 9:46 PM Author: heady copper haunted graveyard But my question is, does having a 1550+ SAT score make a big difference? I've been told to be satisfied with a 1480 from people at my school, since I might look "obsessive" if I retake a relatively high score. I've been told here, that retaking it, as long as I do better, can only help. What is your opinion on this?
Another question I have is at what point would test taking or re-taking start to look obsessive? |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 10:25 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested I never encourage students to retake testing if they are satisfied with their scores. The SAT is just one part of the entire process. It's doubtful that the 1480 will be the only reason that you're rejected from (or accepted to) the schools that you apply to. However, 1550 plus scores are impressive, but they're normally coupled with other really impressive academic aspects. It wouldn't hurt you to have a 1550, but I think at the end of the day, it really won't make much of a difference so if re-taking the test is a stress for you, I'd advise not to do it. Retaking does not look obsessive as long as its not more than 3 times (preferably over more than one year). |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 1:27 PM Author: mauve low-t institution is there any advantage to getting applications in a few weeks before the deadline? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1225903) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 5:03 PM Author: misanthropic pistol i'm no admissions counselor, but the answer is definitely no, unless it's rolling admissions. i guess it's worth a shot to ask a pro, but if he doesn't come back, take my word as gospel. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1227266) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 5:30 PM Author: Awkward Zombie-like Partner The only advantage would be that if your file was not complete, the college would let you know sooner. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1227474) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 9:38 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested The other posters are correct. For schools with a firm deadline there is no advantage to applying earlier than the deadline. If the school has a rolling admissions policy, then it does matter and the earlier the better. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1228843) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 9:51 PM Author: trip very tactful national security agency thanks for helping me out with this sruff over the winter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1228899) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 10:32 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested You're welcome. I wish that I could help more students or that questions would be asked that I can provide some real insight into. But, I will answer whatever the students are interested in learning about and hopefully it helps. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1229185) |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 11:15 PM Author: obsidian charismatic deer antler Thanks a lot for your help- It's been a whole lot of help, even if they were questions that I didn't ask.
I also have a couple questions of my own. 1. Do admissions officers prefer online or hard copies of applications? 2. Do they prefer typed ones over handwritten ones, even if the handwriting is pretty good? 3. What is the number of awards a successful applicant has?
I know I know, questions one and two are kind of weird but I was just wondering... I'm trying to do everything possible to make my chances increase by the slightest tiniest bit, although I'm sure that whether or not online/hard copy will have anything to do with it. I'm just wondering.
Also, I have an award called a 2-Year Orchestra Award. At my school, lots of people quit Orchestra some time in high school- not many people stay with the program. I got the award for staying w/the program for 2 years... Is this worth listing in the awards section? As with the Scholar Athlete Award, which is awarded for staying on the honor roll (or something like that, I'm not sure-you probably know better)... is that worth mentioning?
Also.. I only have four full-year core academic courses, one full-year "extra" course (orchestra), and one half-yaer academic course scheduled for my senior year. I'm not sure if this is a lot or little compared to others, but for me, it's kind of a little... In your opinion, is that a small course load that could be looked down upon? All of my academic classes are pretty rigorous, all Honors or AP classes (two AP's, 2 Honors), but there just aren't as much as I had in the past. Should I add some electives? ---------------------------------------- Edit- i just finished reading "acing the college application" by michele a. hernandez, a former assistant director of admissions of dartmouth- she's also the author of "a is for admission"... and i had several questions and wanted your input, if possible :)
1. she suggests not giving out race information, esp if you're white or asian b/c of the surplus applicants of whites and asians... b/c colleges are always looking for diversity...and that it will only work against you in admissions process if you do provide it- true?
2. don't give out family info (dad's job, family income), esp. if income's high, dad has high job- it only works against u b/c you would come off as 'privileged'- thus you'd have everything handed to you on a silver platter... is this true? but wouldn't NOT supplying this info seem a little fishy also?
3. this is just a personal question- i have a bunch of activities, but not many from 10th grade- actually only 2 of my activities on my ec's page are ones that i actually participated in 10th.. everthing else is 9th, 11th, or 12th... will this be significantly looked down upon? also, i'm pretty sure i'll be continuing some activities throughout senior year (such as being a counselor at a camp.. which is in march or so)- should i just star them, and put at the bottom of the page that i will mostlikley continue this activity senior year, or should i just go ahead and circle the senior year circle? but if they ever find out i didn't do the activity, would that.. reject me?
4. if i send my app and the college receives it, say, on monday november 1st at a rolling admissions school. how long will it take before the adcomms actually review my app? and how long does it take to review one person's application?
i know this was REALLY long, thanks for taking the time to read it if you did :) and your help would be appreciated! |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 11:32 PM Author: Exhilarant Box Office Windowlicker Please take this as an explanation of context and not as a flame.
People on this board are, by their nature, very well versed in the details of college admissions. We all came to xoxohth because we wanted to learn about college admissions, so we know the basics...in fact, we know about as much about college admissions as anyone can reasonably hope to gleam from public documents and statistics.
Frankly, your answers are generic and disingenuous. You're being politically correct, general, and unwilling to take any kind of stance. You're giving the type of answers that colleges put up on the answers to the FAQ section of their admissions website.
We can already get that. We want to know the inside part of college admissions. The stuff colleges don't want us to know. The "maybe its not fair but its true" part of college admissions. The real, dirty facts. Because college admissions is a game. You're protecting your identity; to what end if you're not saying anything your institution hasn't said itself? I understand if you have some loyalty or oath to uphold here, but then why are you here in the first place if you can't answer the hard questions?
Think about it like it's a college admissions essay. What makes YOU stand out to all the other knowledge thats out there for us? I'm sure you know something we don't, but its your job to express that to us.
Thanks for your time and effort. I just don't know if you're doing the right thing. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 11:33 PM Author: obsidian charismatic deer antler clap clap clap...
^true... but I still am not very familiar with the whole college admissions thing. But if akaQuickFire were to tell us the real story behind it, it'll be a great help... although he's been a great help already :) |
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Date: August 24th, 2004 5:30 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested As stated before. I don't know what "real story" you're refering to. I've been as honest as I can. I don't really have anything to hide as the previous poster implied. It seems that many of you have read the books that give an insiders perspective into the process and those authors are also being honest (even if they have a very biased perspective), so it shouldn't be surprising that what I say and what they say are similar. I guess this board is for those who haven't read those books or have gotten conflicting information from reading too many of those books. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1233331) |
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Date: August 24th, 2004 3:04 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested I think that you are right to a point. The answers here have been generic. But, I think that is in part b/c the questions that have been asked up until this point have not required anything but. As I mentioned in a response to some student who said I helped last year, I was hoping for questions that would shed light on some aspect of the process. However, disingenous I would not agree with. I have answered the questions from my honest perspective. I just allow that others in the profession may view things differently from myself. And I think overall you will find that in this profession most that you will encounter are balanced people...that's why they're hired b/c they can see things/applicants from multiple perspectives. And in conclusion, if you're not pleased with what you're reading, you do not have to read. I will continue to be here to give answers for those who have questions, so if you feel that you're not learning anything then don't look at this thread anymore. |
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Date: August 23rd, 2004 11:51 PM Author: Black vengeful people who are hurt How much does personal adcom preference come into play when looking over a super impressive and somewhat indistinguishable pool? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1229793) |
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Date: August 24th, 2004 5:18 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested Personal preference plays a big part. There were some officers who were impressed by athletics where others weren't. Or an officer was a musician in college or grad school and so sympathizes with musicians more. We're human and so we do have our own biases. I know that there were certain students that I advocated for more strongly than others b/c of non-academic issues. Each admissions office has their own culture. I think I was surprised by how different each office is. You can try to gauge the culture by talking to a couple of officers from the same school. There are bound to be similarities and those similarities would probably shed some light on the overall biases of the office. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1233272) |
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Date: August 24th, 2004 12:07 AM Author: obsidian charismatic deer antler Subject: resumes I read in a book, I forget the title, something like "how to maximize your chances..." etc. etc. I forget- but it was written by an adcomm from Dartmouth...
He wrote that colleges do not like resumes attached to the application- is this true? Resumes with a list of the activities and explanations for them...
But I also read in a different book that said resumes only help, and they even provided different types of formats...
In your opinion, do college admissions officers generally like, or dislike resumes?
Thanks! |
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Date: August 24th, 2004 5:20 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested I do not like resumes. I don't think that they help and I actually barely paid attention to them. They're often not organized in a way that's meaningful to the admissions staff. I encourage students to fill out your activities on the application. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1233280) |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 7:16 AM Author: heady copper haunted graveyard Can it hurt, in any way? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1236767) |
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Date: August 24th, 2004 3:30 PM Author: ultramarine pea-brained field I'm a little confused about how I should list my senior year coursework. I'm taking most of my classes online or at a local college and only a 2 or 3 at high school. The online courses don't have prescribed start/end dates, which means that I basically start another one when I happen to finish the one I'm working on, which depends a lot on how much time I happen to devote to other projects at a given time. They're mostly random post-diff eq math classes that aren't really prerequisites for one another, so I don't have to take them in any particular order and the ones I decide to take later this year will probably depend a lot on which parts of the ones I take earlier this year I like best. Also, the college classes I take next year will depend on what I happen to be interested in at the time, and also on space availability in the courses I want.
When I tell colleges what courses I'm planning to take this year, should I estimate conservatively and only mention courses I'm positive I'll end up taking and risk my schedule looking skimpier than it really will be, or list a more ambitious schedule that I'll fulfill in the absence of unforseen distractions and risk my plans changing at some point so that I don't end up having all the courses I list? Should I just notify the colleges I apply to asap if my coursework plans change, or warn them on the application that I might end up taking more or fewer classes than I end up listing, or substituting in equally challenging courses for some of the ones I list initially?
Sorry for the long-winded incoherence, I think I'll end up taking a random expository writing course this semester to try and force my trains of thought to get more organized :) |
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Date: August 24th, 2004 5:23 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested I think that you answered your own question in this email. But, just to point it out to you, I would put down the more aggressive courseload. If you end up changing things, you can send a revised schedule after you've been admitted or denied. It won't cause any office to rescind your acceptance unless you completely lied and aren't doing any college level courses. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1233306) |
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Date: August 24th, 2004 6:36 PM Author: obsidian charismatic deer antler I was wondering if you could answer my questions I had posted up there... before the one where the poster suggested you were giving very vague answers :)
Thanks! |
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Date: August 24th, 2004 5:41 PM Author: Boyish Twisted Trust Fund Spot Would participating in a highly selective program like Governor's School or taking credit and getting A's at a local commmunity college be seen as a plus? And if they are, as i suspect, is it just a tipping factor or insight into intellecutal curiorsity? (sp)
Edit: also, which is better - the program of 9 credits at the cc with A's? i know every officer will have different opinions, but what is your specific opinion on this? |
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Date: August 24th, 2004 7:13 PM Author: mind-boggling hell marketing idea How is taking extra time and effort to get to know and correspond with one's admissions officer viewed? Does it weigh in one's favor because it shows that he is interested or does it hurt him because it is viewed as "pestering and annoying"? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1233872) |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 8:48 AM Author: aggressive idea he suggested It depends on the officer. I for one did not really like to establish personal contacts with many of the applicants. They begin to think that you're friends and the calls come way too frequently and if their application isn't strong, it makes it really hard to continue the conversation. However, some of my colleagues loved making personal connnections with the applicants and really did push for them when it came to reading the file b/c they knew so much more about them than what's in the application. I'd say you can try to establish a relationship with the officer who's most important to your application (the person who reads your part of the alphabet or your section of the country....). Try talking to them 2 times or so, you'll get the feel if they want to continue hearing from you or not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1236797) |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 1:46 AM Author: at-the-ready amethyst crotch theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1236107) |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 8:52 AM Author: aggressive idea he suggested Yes. All the important info like that is made immediately aware to us, so we end up looking at the application in the context of that information. For example. His SATs are high for a recruited athlete, he has had some interesting experiences for a double legacy....etc.
But, most applicants have nothing important like that on their application and so they're just read straight. The ones with the biggest preference are those who will contribute to the place...son or daughter of someone famous, family has given a lot of money to the institution over the years (read...they have a building or two named after them). But there are very few of those cases (maybe 30) per year. |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 9:31 AM Author: Floppy naked theatre lettuce If an applicant doesn't check a box for race, do you ever make a guess based on their name? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1236821) |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 10:46 AM Author: aggressive idea he suggested I guess sometimes you have a feeling about their race from their name. But, if they didn't check the box I don't consider their application in the context of the race. It has really hurt some people not to put their race/ethnicity down. B/c then you can't use any sociological context to explain things in their app. I never could understand why people didn't check off the appropriate box or at least fill in the Other line... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1236920) |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 3:28 PM Author: Vermilion indian lodge liquid oxygen Does an applicant get penalized for checking the white box? Are you claiming that Affirmative Action is an important factor in admissions?
"But, if they didn't check the box I don't consider their application in the context of the race. It has really hurt some people not to put their race/ethnicity down." I could understand that it might help an applicant whose never lived in the US, to submit a TOEFL score. What does "context of the race" have to do with anything? |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 3:50 PM Author: Floppy naked theatre lettuce Well, he/she has already acknowledged the race differences in SATs, regardless of socioeconomic factors. So maybe race would just grant some slack to an otherwise good applicant with a surprisingly low (but not terrible) SAT score.
Am I in the general area of being right? |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 9:49 AM Author: aggressive idea he suggested You've pretty much hit it. I wouldn't say granting slack, but it gives more information as to why the testing is lower than you would expect from an otherwise strong student. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1241923) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 4:16 PM Author: Vermilion indian lodge liquid oxygen So certain minorities are given preferential treatment in admissions? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1243672) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 4:46 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested I do think each student is looked at within their own individual context and race is one of those things that is thought about. I do not remember saying preferential treatment. It seems that you are determined to hear what you want to hear. And I do not feel like an affirmative action debate is necessary. The Supreme Court has already made the decision for us and at least for the next 20 years that is the way that we will proceed. |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 1:30 PM Author: soul-stirring grizzly temple Would you think an applicant in this situation is a slacker because of the high SAT with mediocre rank? Would you think the school gives out free As? Would you think the course load is not difficult enough to have a good weighted rank?
1500+ SATs Ranked Top 11% (weighted) at a school with average SAT 1140 and 97% going to college 3.8 UW overall, with a 3.5 UW freshman year damaging the rank/cumulative GPA |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 1:33 PM Author: primrose disturbing cuckoldry native If a student moves from a really selective high school to a mediocre public school on his senior year giving him mediocre GPAs, what would you think about the situation? What would you advise to the student if it was an international setting and the admission officer do not have much of the idea how selective his old high school was? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1237463) |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 1:45 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested I remember a very similar situation. And when it came to committee I was a very strong voice not to accept her. To me if academics is important to you, you don't take the easy way out and go to an easier school. In the end we did not take her. An international setting might make it a little easier to fly under the radar b/c the officers might not know that you've transfered to a less difficult school. But, if they do, you run the risk of them thinking like me. |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 1:49 PM Author: obsidian charismatic deer antler i received an award called the two-year orchestra award for staying with the orchestra program for two years... is this worth mentioning? is the scholar athlete award worth mentioning?
also, how many awards does a successful applicant usually have? what kinds of awards are they?
thanks- |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 3:52 PM Author: primrose disturbing cuckoldry native Actually I am in that situation. My parents cannot afford the school anymore so I might have to move a public school. The school I attended was definitely one of the most selective school in Canada. What comment do you think I should make to the admission comittee? Would my application be weaker in result of moving to a public school? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1238142) |
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Date: August 25th, 2004 10:00 PM Author: curious burgundy menage preventive strike Subject: Varsity letter or not My daughter wants to drop (basketball) this year and loose her chance of getting a varsity letter. Doing the sport will take at least 2 and a half hours a day 6 days a week plus games.
As a junior she is taking 7 classes (4 AP's and 2 honors). She is a very good student, she plays an instrument and does volunteer work.
How bad is it on an application for the top 20 schools, not to have a sport?
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Date: August 26th, 2004 9:50 AM Author: aggressive idea he suggested It makes little difference at all, especially if it's a Division 1 school b/c if she's not being recruited playing a sport is seen in the same light as any other extra-curricular activity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1241924) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 1:14 AM Author: soul-stirring grizzly temple How much does winning a national award improve admissions chances?
1st Place at Nationals, FBLA Visual Basic Programming |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 9:51 AM Author: aggressive idea he suggested National awards are pretty impressive. You definitely want to draw attention to that in more than just the honors listing on the app. Maybe a short addendum about what you did to get the award...but, keep it brief. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1241927) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 1:02 PM Author: ultramarine pea-brained field What sort of addendum? Should you put one for all national/international awards, even if what you did to get them is sort of self-explanatory? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1242553) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 11:02 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested It's hard for me to see how what you did and why you did it would be self-explanatory. I would not write an addendum, if you've talked about the activity in your EC statement, but if you haven't mentioned it anywhere and it was important to you, I would elaborate for the committee in a paragraph. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1246254) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 1:23 AM Author: Black vengeful people who are hurt What do you suppose virtually all high school counselors are unqualified to deliver college advice? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1241409) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 9:56 AM Author: aggressive idea he suggested I don't think I understand your question. Please rephrase. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1241933) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 1:00 PM Author: Cocky Nowag Area quickfire, how would you evaluate an applicant such as myself? I come from a decent high school that rarely (as in once every decade) sends students to top 25 schools, not including UVA. I have taken advantage of everything available to me and have done quite well, but my ECs pale in comparison to what I have seen on these message boards. Before this summer, I had never even heard of science olympiads, AMC/AIME, siemens westinghouse, etc. I genuinely want to attend a top school for academic reasons and am not being pressured into it by my school evironment or parents. My recommendations will reflect this, and like my essays, should be pretty good. I guess what I really want to ask is will my achievements relative to my environment be recognized? Will my lack of amazing ECs hurt me? For reference, here is my prstats profile:
http://www.prstats.com/2009/display.php?user=cavalier302
Thanks for any help you can offer. |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 3:39 PM Author: mind-boggling hell marketing idea I second this question... Quickfire, can you answer this because I think many people in a similar situation as cavalier feel hopeless without perfect stats and many awards. Personally, I don't even know how some people get so many awards. My school offers no awards. And a question of my own - since my school doesn't offer awards, should I make that known on the application or does it not really matter? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1243402) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 11:08 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested I have not looked at your stats. And typically when students send these to me it's very difficult to make much use of them. The admissions committees see tens of students with identical scores and they will accept some and not others, it's the recs and the essay which differentiate applications. Anyway, at most highly selective schools they will not be comparing you to other students who have had opportunities to join things that are not available to you. But, it will be your responsibility to highlight the activities that you have done and what they have meant to you. The number of activities isn't as important as your involvement in the the ones that you are a member of. But, that said if you've only done 2 or 3 activities this will visually look different from other apps, so you need to talk up the things that you have done. You really shouldn't worry. I didn't give any extra weight to students who have 3 page long resumes vs. those with only 1 page...most of the 3 pagers were shallowly involved in what they did and that's not impressive at all.
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Date: August 26th, 2004 3:44 PM Author: Floppy naked theatre lettuce Something I've always wondered: How are children or very near relatives of faculty considered? Similar to a legacy, or in no special light at all? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1243447) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 11:11 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested Near relatives didn't get any additional preference in my office, except if your relatives have donated a lot of money to the school or if your sibling currently attends the school. With faculty it depends on how important the faculty member is. I would say that children of the chairs of the departments would be noted (see earlier posting) and then considered within that context. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1246322) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 3:59 PM Author: irradiated dopamine (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1243554) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 11:12 PM Author: soul-stirring grizzly temple Where do you draw the line between hobby and EC?
For example, would computer programming be considered a good activity to write about for a computer science major? Or is that too much a hobby? |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 11:21 PM Author: at-the-ready amethyst crotch theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1246396) |
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Date: August 28th, 2004 10:20 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested If you like doing it you can write about it as an activity. "Hobbies" are usually more interesting than school clubs and sports because they're different. Most applicants do many of the same activities and so the hobbies typically set some applicants apart from the majority.
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Date: August 28th, 2004 10:30 PM Author: heady copper haunted graveyard what kind of hobbies should we put and should we not put? does it have to be something that most people would consider "productive", or should you put down any just-for-fun hobbies? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1254888) |
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Date: August 26th, 2004 11:59 PM Author: at-the-ready amethyst crotch theater (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1246608) |
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Date: August 28th, 2004 5:32 PM Author: ultramarine pea-brained field One big benefit...to keep worthless high school busywork classes from rotting your brain and ruining perfectly good subjects for you.
On a more pragmatic note, at schools without a lot of APs and hard classes, it's probably hard for adcoms to tell the difference between people who would do well in harder classes if they were offered and those who are perfectly happy with the pseudo-honors that happens to be their school's hardest courseload, and who wouldn't do well if given the opportunity to take harder classes. Seeking out harder courses independantly probably reduces the degree to which adcoms have to guess about how you would do at another school. I'd personally rather be in as much control as possible of how my coursework looks than leave it up to someone who doesn't know me to guess how I might have done with harder courses. |
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Date: August 28th, 2004 10:22 PM Author: aggressive idea he suggested That sort of independent academic pursuit is definitely seen as a good thing. The fact that there is no one forcing them to take these classes or study for these tests typically show that the applicant wants to learn for learnings sake and there is almost nothing better than getting that impression from an applicant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=74826&forum_id=2#1254865) |
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Date: August 29th, 2004 1:36 AM Author: Excitant Useless Foreskin Mad-dog Skullcap (EDIT: sorry, this is quite a bit longer than I intended it to be, but any help is much appreciated.)
While I can't argue your opinion, no one is forcing these people to take AP Gov't instead of regular Gov't, history, etc. Unless it matters whether or not they're part of the diploma requirements, but independant study classes can fulfill credits. As far as I'm concerned, taking it independantly just means that it wouldn't fit in your schedule (or school doesn't offer it). Of course, it's your opinion of it that matters here, and on this issue I have a personal question.
My school doesn't offer any economics class. It's not a bad school; in fact it's considered one of the best in the country. But it's just too small to offer too many extraneous classes. Now, I am interested in economics, and rather than bother with paying for and attending classes at the local CC or whatever, I've decided to just study it on my own. Whether I take it as part of my curriculum or not, and even whether I take the AP test, is not a big issue, and for now I'm content to follow my own plan (although I will make sure I know at least most of what I would have learned in an AP class anyway).
Would it look better for me to do Econ for credit and take the test, or would my intention be better conveyed (learning economics) if I did it on my own, where it won't look like I'm doing it just to make my college apps prettier? As I said, I originally planned to do this solely for my own education, but I'd be willing to do it for credit, and as my summer still has another few weeks to go, I'd like to get some inside info on how this will effect my application.
As long as I'm here, I'll tack on a few more questions: I would like to add some insight into my life to the college apps as regards to my hobbies, such as above. Because I don't define myself by numbers, I want some extra space to explain my person. (My numbers aren't terrible; my ACT is in the upper quartile for most if not all top-tier schools, I have five AP tests behind me after my junior year with three 5's and two 4's, but specifically my GPA is a tad low for top schools.) For example, I took the SAT once, the ACT once, and never studied a bit for either. Basically, as suck-up-ish as it sounds, I care more about learning than numbers. This could be easily explained in a fee topic essay, such as on the common app and in some schools, but some apps I'm looking at give me no room. How does admissions look on extra supplemental explanations (like an added essay)? Even for schools willing to accept one, as I imagine most would, how are they considered?
In regard to extracurricular activities/hobbies: I have a few persuits to which I apply myself diligently and with dedication (such as above), but otherwise am very sparce. I really haven't joined any academic clubs, as I see on others lists here, and don't do a sport (although I'll probably start one come fall). While I may like math, or physics, or whatever, I've never found academic clubs to be more than a waste of time. How does this factor into consideration?
To sum it up (I'm sorry I'm asking so much of you), how do I look as a student generally, as far as admissions is concerned? To add propaganda to it, I would much rather learn from my classes than sit in a corner doing long division just to help my GPA; nor do I ever intend to learn explicitly to regurgitate info back out (if I wanted to regurgitate, I'd stick my finger down my throat). Have I lost my big chance by not being a "better student," whatever that means?
Finally (yes, I write too much), what about the National Merit Scholarship? I won't find out until next month if I've made it any farther (semi-finalist or whatever), but even if I don't, how does it look to have passed the NMSQT portion of the PSAT? |
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Date: August 30th, 2004 9:43 AM Author: soul-stirring grizzly temple What's the general impression you get about a student with (in comparison with your school's typical student body), average GPA, high SAT, low class rank?
Slacker? |
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Date: August 30th, 2004 5:55 PM Author: Black vengeful people who are hurt Subject: Suspensions How is a suspension treated?
This question pops up often -- it is the one this board is most clueless about.
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Date: August 30th, 2004 6:14 PM Author: Know-it-all rigor jewess I'm interested in that.
Also:
I have a certain activity that I do that extremely passionate about. However, I can't win any awards doing it. Since it takes up a lot of time, I'm not sure that I'll have any national/state awards by the time I graduate (unless I win some when I join Model UN next year -- but won't colleges look down on you for joining an EC in your junior year?) If my passion comes in my essay, do you think I'll have a shot at top colleges? I read your ECs mainly matter if you get awards and leadership positions. I also read that top colleges mainly accept people who have national and state awards of some sort. |