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COA Clerkship Chances?
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Date: April 6th, 2009 2:54 AM Author: trip school cafeteria quadroon I'm still undecided as to whether I want to clerk, so I figure I am only going to apply to a few judges from courts I'd personally feel foolish to pass up: the 9th, 2nd, and Federal Circuits. __________________________________________ My stats:
1L @ T20: top 1% (over 4.0)
HYS Transfer: first semester 2L - HHHP; second semester 2L - probably lower (burnout is startin to set in).
HYS Law Review __________________________________________
I guess my question is, should I even bother with the proess if I am not as gung ho about it as everyone else seems to be? Can I phone in applications to like 10 prestigious judges (as opposed to 50-70 across the board) and still have a realistic shot? Or should I just not waste my time?
Also, if I got an offer from a judge, is it like rediculously taboo to decline if I were to change my mind after the interview?
Thoughts? (no, this is not flame) |
Date: April 6th, 2009 2:55 AM Author: heady medicated yarmulke stay out and let the people who really want it have a chance
that being said, you definitely have the stats needed |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 8:51 AM Author: ivory church building antidepressant drug Yeah, I tend to agree. Obviously, LR @ HYS is basically a lock for a COA clerkship (barring you acting like a tool at the interview), potentially even a prestigious one. But if you're not terribly interested, let classmates take them. It's "taboo" to reject an offer, but it's not unheard of. But your career services, and your classmates, will be very pissed if you burn bridges. If you really care about your classmates, then, let them have the shot.
Nice work, though, with those stats. |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 9:19 AM Author: indecent titillating university background story soz dood too optimistic (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=969147&forum_id=2#11346773) |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 9:23 AM Author: ivory church building antidepressant drug Why too optimistic? About 20-25% of a class at HYS get COA clerkships. Sure, some with WE. I don't think it's excessively optimistic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=969147&forum_id=2#11346778) |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 12:42 PM Author: concupiscible nibblets link? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=969147&forum_id=2#11347712) |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 12:47 PM Author: trip school cafeteria quadroon http://lawclerkaddict2009.blogspot.com/2009/01/top-31-law-school-chart.html |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 12:48 PM Author: concupiscible nibblets why is stanford dominating? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=969147&forum_id=2#11347754) |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 12:53 PM Author: ivory church building antidepressant drug That chart is % of the class. So ~20% there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=969147&forum_id=2#11347797) |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 12:55 PM Author: trip school cafeteria quadroon Actually, are you sure? It says "Here's a visual representation of the percentage of clerks from the Top 31 law schools."
How do you account for the inclusion of graduate clerks? |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 9:34 AM Author: Flatulent wonderful deer antler You can certainly give it a shot, but why would you turn down a clerkship if you're only applying to a handful that you've carefully selected? Do you think you'll change your mind about clerking, or clerking for that particular judge? You should get in touch with current/past clerks to get a good idea of what you're in for.
I'd say you have an excellent shot if you have some HYS profs on your side who can write strong recs. Do you have anything published? Are you active in Fed Soc or ACS? |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 11:04 AM Author: trip school cafeteria quadroon Well, I'm certain that I want to do biglaw IP litigation, and I'm weary about the stories floating around regarding firms rescinding offers to their clerks ITE.
Also, even with the clerkship bonus, you are giving up like 60-100k of income for that year. That's not exactly chump change right now.
I'm sure clerking would be a strong educational experience, but is it really worth all that money / risk? Will it significantly help my chances of making partner one day? I don't see it having much effect for partnership prospects, as it would be 6-7 years in the past at that point. |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 11:14 AM Author: Talented copper mad cow disease queen of the night fed circuit dood. the credential may not be as impressive as a feeder, but if you want to be an IP partner your firm will love that experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=969147&forum_id=2#11347096) |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 11:19 AM Author: trip school cafeteria quadroon That's my thinking. Fed. Circuit would be my first pick, and the one I'd almost certainly end up accepting if offered. Given my IP bent, I'd be a fool not to I think.
It's more 9th/2d Cir. that I'm unsure of. |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 12:00 PM Author: Provocative tanning salon generalized bond I'm a current clerk in one of the "good" circuits, and I can tell you that your worries are not totally off-base. I too kind of doubt whether the clerkship will really help make me parter. But I think there are some scenarios in which it would--for example, I think it would help me get a good DOJ or AUSA job, and that job, in turn, would give me a better shot at making partner.
I can also confirm that the post-clerkship hiring market is pretty crappy right now. My credentials are fairly ridiculous--around the same level as yours--and I applied to about 15 firms and got no offers. I'm also a little worried about my 2L summer offer getting rescinded, though I think this is unlikely.
And I fully agree with you about giving up $60K in income for that year. That's a lot of money.
I certainly would not change your mind after you accept an offer with a judge. I'm sure that kind of thing happens but it's pretty frowned upon. That said, it would be less crazy for you to go to an interview, get an offer, and tell them you want to interview with the other judges on your schedule before accepting the offer. At the end of the day, if you still don't want to clerk, you can just call them back and say you won't be accepting the offer. They probably won't question you at all on this, since by that time they would have given your offer to someone else. |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 12:08 PM Author: Provocative tanning salon generalized bond Actually, I should add that there's one other way that a clerkship could potentially help you make partner: Clerks coming into a firm are probably viewed as presumably "stars" when they come in. Partners might give them some of the better work. If the clerk doesn't perform well, they'd lose that status, and a non-clerk could easily gain the star status, too. So it's not a huge deal. Plus in some firms, most of the lawyers are clerks, and star status is reserved for SCOTUS clerks. But still, this is a small benefit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=969147&forum_id=2#11347485) |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 12:10 PM Author: Flatulent wonderful deer antler I'm a former clerk for one of the OP's target circuits, and I know from talking to current clerks that the market is very rough. Indeed, one of them recently had an offer revoked and is pretty much SOL. Things might calm down when/if the economy picks up, but if you are in any kind of financial straits, don't do it. Clerkship bonuses might be drying up as clerks have lost their luster for firms.
As for turning down an offer, it really depends on the judge. Some of them are cool with it, but others get very offended at the thought that you are shopping around. It is very dangerous to turn down an offer because your other judges might get full very quickly. Your later interviews might very well get canceled.
If the OP is interested in IP litigation, then Fed. Cir. is the obvious choice for subject matter, but a district court clerkship would be much more relevant than COA for litigating. |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 12:11 PM Author: trip school cafeteria quadroon Thanks guys, great advice.
You are the first clerks I've seen confirm the rumors firsthand. While you are not too concerned about your 2L offer being rescinded, are you worried that they may attempt to renegotiate your clerkship bonus, or flat out withhold it? That would make the income gap even worse, and you would likely have to swallow hard and accept it ITE. |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 12:40 PM Author: Provocative tanning salon generalized bond I was worried about it at first, but my firm has indicated that they will be paid. Obviously this promise is non-binding, but my guess is that the bonus will be paid. As far as I can tell, most other top firms will do the same thing. I'm not sure why they're not cutting this bonus; it seems like an obvious cost-cutting target for cash-conscious firms. My guess is that the firms that are laying people off really only want to fire their under-performers and are reluctant to do anything that would result in an exodus of the star recruits. They must not realize that clerks don't have anywhere to go right now.
Oh and I agree with what the above-posters have said: If you want to do patent work, go to the fed circuit. |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 11:27 AM Author: concupiscible nibblets any tips for obviously pwning your exams? what was your routine/strategy? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=969147&forum_id=2#11347189) |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 11:36 AM Author: trip school cafeteria quadroon "Getting to Maybe" - http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Maybe-Excel-School-Exams/dp/0890897603
Making your OWN outlines - less than 25 pages. Memorize.
Taking your notes in the library, not in class.
Practice exams.
Wanting it more than everyone else. |
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Date: April 6th, 2009 11:45 AM Author: concupiscible nibblets how many hours per day did you study? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=969147&forum_id=2#11347357) |