Remember the DC helicopter crash in January that killed 64 people, including 12 children?
Turns out the female pilot who was flying was given multiple warnings and was directly told by her male instructor/copilot to turn the opposite direction of the passenger jet to avoid a collision.
Date: April 27th, 2025 2:50 PM Author: Floppy Base
nyuug will bump this thinking it somehow vindicates the Korean crash, when in fact all it does it provide further proof that only white men should be pilots.
Up to now attention has focused on the Black Hawk’s altitude, which was too high and placed the helicopter directly in the jet’s landing path at National Airport. But The Times found new details that show that the failures were far more complex than previously known.
The helicopter crew appeared to have made more than one mistake. Not only was the Black Hawk flying too high, but in the final seconds before the crash, its pilot failed to heed a directive from her co-pilot, an Army flight instructor, to change course.
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But even as it reached that juncture, Warrant Officer Eaves evidently felt obligated to repeat his instruction: The Black Hawk was at 300 feet, he said, and needed to descend.
Captain Lobach said she would. But two and a half minutes later, the Black Hawk still was above 200 feet — a dangerously high level.
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The Black Hawk was 15 seconds away from crossing paths with the jet. Warrant Officer Eaves then turned his attention to Captain Lobach.
He told her he believed that air traffic control wanted them to turn left, toward the east river bank.
Turning left would have opened up more space between the helicopter and Flight 5342, which was heading for Runway 33 at an altitude of roughly 300 feet.
Date: April 28th, 2025 7:45 PM Author: cheese-eating crawly hall milk
“former military pilots said that by issuing a proactive command to pass behind the jet, the controller was going above and beyond his obligations, especially under see-and-avoid conditions, and that an experienced Black Hawk crew should have known what to do without help.”
Date: April 28th, 2025 7:48 PM Author: Thriller knife theatre
"see and avoid conditions" that ATC authorized before ATC told the passenger jet to bank hard left. Why do you think there have been fist fights breaking out at that same ATC tower if everyone thinks it was the female pilot's fault?
Also, what happened to the claim that the pilot "disobeyed orders?" Did we bail on that theory already?
Date: April 27th, 2025 3:06 PM Author: frisky crackhouse multi-billionaire
i think i see your point. he didn't give her a directive. although, just to play devils advocate here, he did say "i think you should do X" and if she had done X, they, as well as 65 people on the airplane (including children) would still be alive.
Date: April 28th, 2025 7:52 PM Author: Thriller knife theatre
Co-pilots get trained hard to make their opinions known when it matters. Being a co-pilot means you know when to tell the pilot what the fuck to do, and make your instructions clear. You don't half-ass it and call it an "order."
Up to now attention has focused on the Black Hawk’s altitude, which was too high and placed the helicopter directly in the jet’s landing path at National Airport. But The Times found new details that show that the failures were far more complex than previously known.
The helicopter crew appeared to have made more than one mistake. Not only was the Black Hawk flying too high, but in the final seconds before the crash, its pilot failed to heed a directive from her co-pilot, an Army flight instructor, to change course.
===
But even as it reached that juncture, Warrant Officer Eaves evidently felt obligated to repeat his instruction: The Black Hawk was at 300 feet, he said, and needed to descend.
Captain Lobach said she would. But two and a half minutes later, the Black Hawk still was above 200 feet — a dangerously high level.
====
The Black Hawk was 15 seconds away from crossing paths with the jet. Warrant Officer Eaves then turned his attention to Captain Lobach.
He told her he believed that air traffic control wanted them to turn left, toward the east river bank.
Turning left would have opened up more space between the helicopter and Flight 5342, which was heading for Runway 33 at an altitude of roughly 300 feet.
Date: April 27th, 2025 3:08 PM Author: mustard soggy azn
"Not only was the Black Hawk flying too high, but in the final seconds before the crash, its pilot failed to heed a directive from her co-pilot, an Army flight instructor, to change course."
Date: April 27th, 2025 5:11 PM Author: claret bateful tanning salon ceo
Okay I'm really flying I can't believe it I'm a totally badass girl pilot this is kind of scary not like the simulator and it's so dark what are those lights why are there so many lights okay it's just DC be calm you've got this why does this trainer keep giving me orders doesn't he know I'm an officer and that I was first place in the tough mudder and that I like got to be on the honor guard didn't he see all my ribbons and how they all have to salute when I walk by he's enlisted and like doesn't understand that so whatever okay focus there's traffic in the area scan the horizon steady keep level okay what's that light down below okay it's nothing but we're on vis sep and they just said to turn right was it right or left I'll confirm why doesn't my radio work I think that button is messed up I'll try again oops wrong channel can't we like use these night vision thingies to make it easier but there's traffic so we need to be extra careful my friend Melissa went to Crumbl last night and they had these amazing sugar cookies that had like caramel and chocolate on them but they were so good I ate two okay it was actually five or six but they were yummy what is the tower asking us why did they say turn right I thought it was left why does this guy keep giving me orders doesn't he know that I like supersede him he should totally respect my rank I didn't put in three years of ROTC just to get yelled at by an enlisted okay focus tower says vis sep approved scanning the horizon the airport is up ahead traffic is clear what turn left I thought we were climbing got it executing right turn what is that bright light is that traffic wow that plane is really close.
Date: April 28th, 2025 1:17 PM Author: Fracture in the Maidenhead (gunneratttt)
"my friend Melissa went to Crumbl" is masterful because this is one of the subtle ways women dodge accountability for anything. women would never eat cookies on their own they just constantly find themselves in cookie eating situations teehee.
Date: April 27th, 2025 4:54 PM Author: Thriller knife theatre
From the actual NYT article cons are unable to read:
"The controller also could have done more.
Though he had delegated the prime responsibility for evading other air traffic to the Black Hawk crew under visual separation, he continued to monitor the helicopter, as his job required. Yet he did not issue clear, urgent instructions to the Black Hawk to avert the crash, aviation experts say."
Date: April 28th, 2025 7:50 PM Author: cheese-eating crawly hall milk
Let’s put that in context:
“Some former military pilots said that by issuing a proactive command to pass behind the jet, the controller was going above and beyond his obligations, especially under see-and-avoid conditions, and that an experienced Black Hawk crew should have known what to do without help.
“Still, some regulators and controllers said that the controller in this case could have done more.
“He could have told the Black Hawk crew where Flight 5342 was positioned and which way it was bound. (The F.A.A. manual instructions direct controllers to use the hours of a clock in describing locations.) He could have provided the jet’s distance from the helicopter in nautical miles or feet.”
Date: April 28th, 2025 7:59 PM Author: Thriller knife theatre
I'm gonna make this real easy to understand:
1. You can't get TOO MUCH assistance from air traffic control. If they're not talking to you, it's because they have to yell at some korean pilot who can't understand English. They don't have the staff on hand to talk to you all the time. They figure you're an Army helicopter pilot, you can handle things on your own, and they leave you in the lurch.
2. Just because you're used to being treated that way by ATC doesn't make the accident your fault.
Date: April 28th, 2025 8:03 PM Author: Thriller knife theatre
3. If ATC wasn't talking to the helicopter, they'd better have a good excuse. "We had to yell at a Korean pilot" would be acceptable. If they just went out to get starbucks, that's what caused the collision. The end.
helicopter confirms plane in sight for landing on rw 33 at 35 seconds (they may have been looking at another plane)
ATC then asks them to confirm again they have plane in sight and to pass behind them at 1:11. Collision is like 15 seconds later.
i'm no aviation expert but i'm not sure what else atc is supposed to do here, especially since they apparently didn't have real time altitude data from the helicopter (which was way above 200 feet)
Date: April 28th, 2025 8:33 PM Author: Fracture in the Maidenhead (gunneratttt)
no i'm not. i have no idea what led to the accident because i'm not an expert in aviation. and neither are you, which is why it's crazy you pretend to be an expert on this, and everything else. however, based on your schizobabble on topics i am an expert in, i expect that's what you're doing here too.