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Penn Honors Cut Offs
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Date: January 18th, 2009 3:46 PM Author: Jade laser beams hall Subject: Penn Honors Cut Offs This has probably already been addressed somewhere, but what're the GPA cut offs for honors, magna & summa cum laude, etc. at Penn Law? I know they don't technically calculate GPAs at Penn, but roughly what does one need? Does it matter whether you take easy seminars vs. classes like Sec. Reg or is it purely based on grades. Thx. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#10742276) |
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Date: January 18th, 2009 3:48 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone kitty stain It completely depends because it DOES matter whether you took seminars or Sec. Reg. Basically, the system at Penn calculates your GPA (for honors) in terms of the curves in the classes you took.
Here is the best example I can think of: if you took one class where the professor only gave out A, A-, and B+ and someone else took another class where the professor only gave out B+, B, B-, and let's assume in equal amount, the student with a B in the second class would have a higher GPA than the person with a B+ in the first class. Does that make sense? |
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Date: January 18th, 2009 3:52 PM Author: Buff stimulating crotch seriously, that's how Penn's system works? jesus. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#10742344) |
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Date: January 18th, 2009 3:53 PM Author: Mildly autistic vivacious indirect expression hell No, it isn't. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#10742348) |
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Date: January 18th, 2009 4:08 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone kitty stain Yes, it is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#10742463) |
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Date: May 14th, 2009 5:50 PM Author: talented shaky orchestra pit bump
i hope this is true. i recently heard that apparently burke-white gave almost every (if not every) student in his two-semester seminar last year 6 credits of A+. |
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Date: January 18th, 2009 3:50 PM Author: Mildly autistic vivacious indirect expression hell What you take is irrelevant. The consensus is as follows:
Magna: about 3.85.
Coif: about 3.75
Cum: about 3.6.
Summa is rarely awarded. |
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Date: January 18th, 2009 4:08 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone kitty stain I don't know where your information is coming from, but mine is from Dean Clinton. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#10742461) |
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Date: January 18th, 2009 5:15 PM Author: Mildly autistic vivacious indirect expression hell please stop trying to justify your poor grades in harder classes. such a system would be so prohibitively difficult to implement that it isn't even worth entertaining. my information is coming from the registrar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#10742838) |
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Date: January 18th, 2009 5:19 PM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution No, it would be quite easy to implement. All you'd need to do is calculate a curve distro for each class, and assign a weight for that class. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#10742860) |
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Date: January 18th, 2009 5:43 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone kitty stain That's exactly what they do. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#10742973) |
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Date: January 18th, 2009 5:43 PM Author: embarrassed to the bone kitty stain Huh? I definitely am not. I have no chance of making honors and take almost all of those nicely curved seminars anyway. I have nothing to lose or gain in this, I'm just speaking the truth. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#10742971) |
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Date: May 14th, 2009 7:35 PM Author: Mentally impaired coral theater Computeres make anything like that trivial dooder. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11739212) |
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Date: January 21st, 2009 7:13 PM Author: 180 voyeur coffee pot Let me guess. You are a 1L and already have dreams of honors. Eat shit faggot, you have median written all over you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#10766200) |
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Date: March 31st, 2009 2:54 PM Author: tan kitty cat chad lulz (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11295299) |
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Date: May 14th, 2009 7:38 PM Author: 180 voyeur coffee pot I stand by that post nearly 4 months later. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11739262) |
Date: January 21st, 2009 7:11 PM Author: Jade laser beams hall Bump for a third opinion. Which is it? Class difficulty does or doesn't matter? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#10766185) |
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Date: January 21st, 2009 7:57 PM Author: infuriating filthy masturbator business firm It DOES matter. While it is based on "GPA" the GPA that is determined is determined around class difficulty. Why don't you call the registrar tomorrow and find out for yourself? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#10766585) |
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Date: March 30th, 2009 8:24 PM Author: zippy spectacular pervert Subject: Latin Honors at Penn Summa Cum Laude 3.80 and higher Magna Cum Laude 3.60 to 3.79 Cum Laude 3.40 to 3.59 |
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Date: March 30th, 2009 11:36 PM Author: cracking temple alpha 3.8 is way too low. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11291675) |
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Date: March 30th, 2009 11:46 PM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution Magna is more like 3.8, and cum laude starts around 3.6. Summa must be somewhere over 4.0. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11291780) |
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Date: March 30th, 2009 11:52 PM Author: dashing irate mediation Are you joking? Noone would get summa EVER if that were the case. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11291846) |
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Date: March 31st, 2009 12:21 AM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution Dead serious. One summa my year had more than 10 A+s; and presumably had only several A- type grades.
In fact, since UMich Law's operates on a lower curve, and their summas are usually also 4.0+, I think that the bar for Penn Law summas must be even higher. |
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Date: March 31st, 2009 2:49 PM Author: Bearded Razzle-dazzle State Date: March 30th, 2009 8:24 PM Author: Whartonite Subject: Latin Honors at Penn
Summa Cum Laude 3.80 and higher
Magna Cum Laude 3.60 to 3.79
Cum Laude 3.40 to 3.59
(http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=#)
--->This is the undergrad distribution, NOT the law school distribution. HTH. |
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Date: March 30th, 2009 11:25 PM Author: dashing irate mediation I'm assuming that classes taken outside the law school(Wharton classes, etc) don't count towards the law school "GPA". Can anyone confirm that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11291590) |
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Date: March 31st, 2009 2:54 PM Author: saffron shivering tank Summa: top 1% Magna: top 5% Cum: top 25% Coif: 10% http://www.bcgsearch.com/pdf/BCG_Law_School_Guide_2009.pdf |
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Date: May 14th, 2009 7:41 PM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution Just quibbling, but the table there says "percentage of class receiving." So the fact that 25% of the class receives cum laude does not mean that cum laude represents being within the top 25%. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11739296) |
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Date: May 14th, 2009 7:46 PM Author: Mentally impaired coral theater Depends on whether you consider magna and summa to have also received cum laude. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11739347) |
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Date: May 18th, 2009 2:42 PM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution That's true, but I think that these are designations rather than ranks. And you only receive one designation (with the exception of Coif). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11765172) |
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Date: May 18th, 2009 2:09 PM Author: outnumbered heady toaster It's the most natural/likely interpretation. Alternatively, > 40% of the class graduates with honors, which is TTT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11764961) |
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Date: May 18th, 2009 2:38 PM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution Coif is awarded independently from cum / magna / summa. So my interpretation (which I hope is wrong) yields 31% (roughly top-third) for cum laude. Since many law schools use cum laude to designate the top-third of the class, it seems as reasonable as the other interpretation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11765146) |
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Date: May 18th, 2009 2:58 PM Author: Bearded Razzle-dazzle State Couldn't this be settled by just looking at the graduation program? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11765278) |
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Date: May 18th, 2009 4:16 PM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution IIRC, the graduation program separates cum laude, magna, and summa students.
But that still doesn't resolve the issue, because the school may assume that a student who achieved magna also achieved cum laude, but decline to list lesser and included accomplishments. |
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Date: May 18th, 2009 4:24 PM Author: Bearded Razzle-dazzle State Yes, but if one was so inclined, you could count up the number of people getting cum and easily come up with the answer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11765884) |
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Date: May 18th, 2009 4:47 PM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution Good point, maybe some bored xoxo'er at the grad ceremonies can follow up on this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11766105) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 12:08 AM Author: vibrant territorial step-uncle's house foreskin Interestingly, the school did not stick to that structure this year. There were five summas, 34 magnas, 26 coif, and 38 cum laude. Our class size was about 260, I think. Make of that what you will...
My best guess is that magna is top 10% now, but they gave honors to transfers without "bumping out" non-transfers. I think like 7 of the magnas were transfers.
Cum laude would be 25% if you exclude the transfers, I think.
What's weird is that some people now have magna without coif, which the structure in the post above would suggest is not possible. |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 9:53 AM Author: Bearded Razzle-dazzle State >>What's weird is that some people now have magna without coif, which the structure in the post above would suggest is not possible.
As far as I know, coif is required to be top 10% at every school. So it looks like magna has switched from being top 5% to top 15% while coif stayed constant at 10%. |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 9:59 AM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution I demand my retroactive magna designation!
Wait, I still don't get magna?
*blank stare* |
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Date: May 22nd, 2009 8:35 AM Author: Adventurous senate Well that chaps my ass. I guess I'll trade getting screwed on latin honors for not getting deferred a year though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11799465) |
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Date: May 18th, 2009 9:56 AM Author: Bearded Razzle-dazzle State Graduating 3Ls -- please post GPAs that got honors. TYIA (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11763522) |
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Date: May 18th, 2009 11:32 AM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution Some data for you:
3.85: magna/coif (with a packed schedule, Sec-Reg etc.) 3.67: cum laude (moderately-packed schedule) 3.65: cum laude (light schedule) |
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Date: May 18th, 2009 11:46 AM Author: Bearded Razzle-dazzle State ty friend (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11763972) |
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Date: May 19th, 2009 11:50 PM Author: vibrant territorial step-uncle's house foreskin another 3.67 cum laude here. several seminars and a clinic, with some core 2L/3L classes as well. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11778108) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 10:49 PM Author: coiffed dopamine Same here. 7 A, 9 A-, 7 B+, 1 B. A's and A-'s were in mostly core classes (solid A's in many 1L classes, evidence, fed courts), B+'s were in mostly bullshit classes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11785604) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 12:26 AM Author: embarrassed to the bone kitty stain Where'd you get this data from? Friends or just averages? How'd you find out the morning of graduation? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11778433) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 12:30 AM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution From friends. I'm an alum, so I learned of these numbers several weeks after graduation, when we were trying to make sense out of latin honors so that we could assess our chances at clerkships. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11778472) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 12:33 AM Author: embarrassed to the bone kitty stain Is this from last year? I'm wondering if the GPA has changed this year. Our 1L year, one elective class gave out 50% A's and A-'s. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11778499) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 12:35 AM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution 50% As and A-s? What a load of crap. Regardless, I think that the GPA doesn't change much because you take so many classes anyway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11778519) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 12:36 AM Author: Buff stimulating crotch why don't they just publish it somewhere instead of being all mysterious? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11778522) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 12:38 AM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution It depends on what classes you take, so there isn't necessarily a publishable number. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11778539) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 12:40 AM Author: Buff stimulating crotch wow thats awful (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11778561) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 8:21 AM Author: embarrassed to the bone kitty stain Awful? Seems more fair, to me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11779563) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 12:47 AM Author: bateful claret garrison I know a Penn summa. Said it was 1 or 2 people a year. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11778632) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 2:38 AM Author: vibrant territorial step-uncle's house foreskin as i said, it was FIVE this year. all great guys, but it seems like we had some latin honors inflation for the class of 2009. maybe the school was just trying to be helpful ITE or something.
EEYORE, do you remember how many people had honors last year? 77 people had some type of honors this year. |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 5:40 AM Author: Vigorous parlour the school did change the honors system this year to make it easier, actually. or at least, that's what i heard from some of the faculty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11779492) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 10:01 AM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution I have no recollection. But I'll dig out the graduation form sometime and post the results.
I do remember that we had three summa in 2008. |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 10:52 AM Author: Bearded Razzle-dazzle State all five were guys? what was the gender break down of honors in general? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11779897) |
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Date: May 20th, 2009 11:28 PM Author: vibrant territorial step-uncle's house foreskin yeah, summa was five doods. magna looks like it was 11 woman of 34, and cum laude was 15 of 38. coif was 6 woman of 26 ppl (so i guess half of the magna females were in the top 10-15% range). not sure what the breakdown was of female to male grads was, although i assume it was close to 50-50. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11786086) |
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Date: May 21st, 2009 12:32 AM Author: coiffed dopamine it's been an unfortunate common theme in the Penn class of '09. summas were all guys, LR was disproportionately guys (general membership and e-board), keedy finalists were all guys (as were 7 out of 8 semi-finalists). '10 seemed to be shaping up that way too... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11786949) |
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Date: May 21st, 2009 12:38 AM Author: bateful claret garrison This is pretty standard. Males seem to always have a higher distribution. LR was 70% male at my school and that was with a disproportionate amount of female pure write ons. Although summa more balanced--too small a sample to matter though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11787043) |
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Date: May 21st, 2009 6:15 PM Author: self-absorbed depressive institution Last year, two of the three summas were women. (But as another poster points out, this is statistically insignificant). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11793651) |
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Date: May 21st, 2009 7:44 PM Author: coiffed dopamine i think the class of '08 LR makeup was much more gender balanced, and so was the board. and the keedy finals were guy-girl pairs, right? keedy is a small sample size too i guess... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11794419) |
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Date: May 21st, 2009 9:18 AM Author: Bearded Razzle-dazzle State 0 / 5 summa 11 / 34 magna 15 / 38 cum = 26 / 77 = 34% women; 66% men receiving latin honors
Is this how honors are usually distributed? WTF? |
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Date: May 21st, 2009 9:25 AM Author: 180 voyeur coffee pot Are you seriously just realizing that men are smarter than women? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11789146) |
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Date: May 21st, 2009 6:11 PM Author: erotic den just seems like there are more male gunners. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11793586) |
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Date: May 21st, 2009 7:46 PM Author: coiffed dopamine or, men could just have a wider distribution (more represented at the bottom of the curve as well). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11794432) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2009 8:44 AM Author: Bearded Razzle-dazzle State that explanation introduces new facts (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11799470) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2009 9:22 AM Author: coiffed dopamine not really, it just exposes an assumption someone made in an earlier post. no one knows whether more men are represented at the bottom of the curve. well, except for the registrar and deans. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11799515) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2009 10:12 AM Author: Bearded Razzle-dazzle State Men being at the top of the curve is not probative of men being at the bottom of the curve. Men certainly could have a polarized distribution, but for that to be true, we'd have to assume more facts. I think, without knowing more, it makes more sense to assume that men and women have the same distribution until there is reason to think otherwise. I agree completely though that the guy above is an idiot for baldly asserting men are smarter than women, across the board. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11799687) |
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Date: May 22nd, 2009 10:18 AM Author: soul-stirring godawful pistol lulz, 5 summas? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=918018&forum_id=2.#11799705) |