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I was “raised” Catholic and never read the gospels. Just finished John
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 1:50 AM Author: Maidenless wow (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48982530) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 2:08 AM Author: Drunkard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48982548) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 9:53 AM Author: gibberish (?) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48982977) |
Date: June 3rd, 2025 9:54 AM Author: Karlstack (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48982979) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:12 AM Author: Nippon Professional Baseball Thoughts? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983022) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:29 AM Author: Maidenless Very profound and seems to set the stage for the sacramental aspects of Mass where Eucharist is the new mana from heaven and imbues us with Holy Spirit. I heard all of this second-hand previously and figured it was catechism stuff and not explicitly stated in the Gospel. I knew the Mathew Eucharist section but it doesn’t really layout the purpose of it like John does.
The entire ending sections of crucifixion and resurrection where the transitive properties of God’s love are explained really resonated with me.
Similar to Mathew, the endless trolling of pilpul kikes was hilarious. The part with everyone fretting about Lazarus dying, but Christ knows he is about to be performing the miracle that gets him killed…wow
lol @ me. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:13 AM Author: .......,,.,.,.,.,,,,,,.,.,..,.,. the bible is flame. it's meant to be a general guidance and a somewhat inaccurate historical record. people who actually read that shit word by word are demented. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983025) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:15 AM Author: ,,,..,,.......,,.... u suck his cock, boi (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983033) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:18 AM Author: .......,,.,.,.,.,,,,,,.,.,..,.,. (evangelical moron who thinks the world was created in 7 days because Genesis says so) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983048) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:32 AM Author: ,,,..,,.......,,.... lol pagan (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983094) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:33 AM Author: .......,,.,.,.,.,,,,,,.,.,..,.,. I have received 5 of the 7 Catholic Sacraments. Haven't gotten sick and Holy Orders isn't in the playbook for me. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983101) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:36 AM Author: ,,,..,,.......,,.... Be gone demon (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983118) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:37 AM Author: .......,,.,.,.,.,,,,,,.,.,..,.,. demons are the ones who still take Eucharist despite being out of practice. either it means something or it doesn't. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983127) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:38 AM Author: you've given me a lot to think about It's this sort of denominational shit flinging that really drew me away from the church. If Christians can't even keep their own house in order, who are they to teach me about the mysteries of life? |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 1:12 PM Author: ,,,..,,.......,,.... we're all catholics joking around. chill. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983562) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:35 AM Author: Maidenless We are discussing the New Testament ITT. Keep fixating on ancient metaphorical writings from the first pages of the most important book you never finished. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983107) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:36 AM Author: you've given me a lot to think about Why is the old testament metaphorical but the new testament is not? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983119) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:48 AM Author: Maidenless Started typing out a serious response, but realized I’m likely talking to some secular pilpul kike and the answer is self explanatory. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983171) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:52 AM Author: you've given me a lot to think about That's a shame. I'm actually a baptized, confirmed, married, practicing Catholic currently going through a crisis of faith. You just blew your shot at evangelizing. Nice job (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983188) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:22 AM Author: Maidenless I haven’t been to church in over a decade. I will be going to confession this week after reading John.
The disciples enthusiastically being martyred over such inconceivable concepts for man, so unlike Islamic martyrs wishing to win an earthly war of flesh, but purely out of devotion to Christ’s teaching of love—is proof enough for me that his miracles were performed. Interacting with a catholic group for the first time in over a decade blew me away—the grace and conscientiousness of the women there was something I hadn’t witnessed in quite some time. Those practicing and following the word are proof enough for me. Perhaps you should go live out in the spiritual wilds with the barbarians and see what becomes of you and your children. You sound like a very “smart” guy and seem capable of shepherding yourself and them from evil all on your own. Good luck. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 12:13 PM Author: you've given me a lot to think about Right. You're pointing out the beneficial societal effects of religion. Which I grant. Ultimately religion is necessary and socially beneficial. Without a centralized belief system, people do some fucked up things like human sacrifice. And a centralized religion has mostly stopped that. Religion also has good practical advice for living one's life. That's why i think it evolved naturally, and I see its purpose. I just can't Believe. I guess it's like Plato put it in the Republic, i.e., a Noble Lie. That's why I generally go to church and will raise my family in the church. It's good for them. But none of this proves its truth. It's more practical. Totally grant that religiou societies do better. Still disagree that religion is True (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983403) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 12:28 PM Author: Maidenless Not sure why you equate all of religion with Christianity.
The type of people it produces in aggregate versus Islam, Buddhism, etc. If I could live in a community of any religion, I would always chose Catholic, and it sounds like you would as well. You ARE a believer in practice afaict from what you just said, and that is really all that matters. You may lack the appreciation I now have for it because you have always been within its bubble. I lived as a fish out of water for a very long time now, and witnessed the horrors of its absence. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:08 AM Author: potluck if you’re not flaming, semi sincere response is that some passages are pretty clearly intended to be (roughly speaking) metaphorical, whether apparently by the original author or by examining how the passage works contextually or in reference to other related parts of canon (latter part I’m thinking e.g. Leviticus, which is less a coherent set of instructions and more a theological treatise that interplays with Genesis—clearly deliberate in context, but this is not generally obvious to modern readers). others might not mandate that reading but it’s permissible and the alternative makes no sense (eg Noah/flood).
misc parts of the NT might be like that, Revelation is a specialized genre that is very obviously like that, and even the gospels contain some narrative segments that are more theological interpretations than they are particularly concerned about historical detail. but the gospels as a whole—stylistically, in terms of the conclusions they lead the reader towards, and in terms of genre more broadly— can’t be taken seriously if the story they all tell about the man Jesus, his ministry, and the passion/resurrection narratives aren’t read as sincerely attempting to relay historical events that the authors believed in. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:20 AM Author: you've given me a lot to think about >some passages are pretty clearly intended to be (roughly speaking) metaphorical Yeah, see that ginormous leap you're making right there? And you still have to qualify it (i.e., "roughly"). I don't know that anything in the Bible is "pretty clearly intended to be (roughly speaking) metaphorical" or literal. What are your criteria for "clear intentions" of the writer? >by examining how the passage works contextually or in reference to other related parts of canon So there's a canon, and the writings are fit into the canon using post hoc reasoning? Weak. >misc parts of the NT might be like that Again, you don't even know. What your post essentially boils down to is "believe what I want to believe and, if too hard to swallow, believe it's metaphorical" Why can't these motherfuckers just be WRONG? Why does it have to be a metaphor? Because your daddy believes the bible and his daddy believes the bible and his daddy, etc.? >the gospels as a whole—stylistically, in terms of the conclusions they lead the reader towards, and in terms of genre more broadly— can’t be taken seriously if the story they all tell about the man Jesus, his ministry, and the passion/resurrection narratives aren’t read as sincerely attempting to relay historical events that the authors believed in Then why should the OT be taken seriously! Why is some metaphor ok but some is not? And it's precisely where you want it to be? This is ALL post hoc interpretation to fit into a neat canon. I get the purpose of religion, why and how it evolved, that it's ultimately useful for society (or at least was). But I'm not believing the noble lie anymore. There's just no dignity in it |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:24 AM Author: Maidenless pilpul…enjoy where this leads you, friend. I remember when I was 17. You sound like a Pharisee (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983272) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:28 AM Author: you've given me a lot to think about Yeah im taking this as a concession. You cannot answer my reasoned questions. Christianity is a scam for marks who don't ask questions >You sound like a Pharisee Top fucking ljl. As if you'd know. Keep playing wannabe Jew and worshipping your Jewish messiah |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:31 AM Author: Maidenless I didn’t read the earlier poast once I saw you pilpuling a line-by-line breakout. You have already decided on your own. “WHY DIDNT CHRIST TRY TO EVANGELIZE JUDAS FROM BETRAYING HIM?” Idk brother but enjoy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983289) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:34 AM Author: potluck I can’t adequately respond to your mostly fair questions because I’m phone posting at work, but, some responses.
I said roughly speaking because “metaphor” isn’t the most precise concept here. There are very obviously different biblical genres. And there are degrees of theological interpretation going on in different narrative segments of scripture. That’s not a post hoc rationalization, that’s just the nature of the documents. “Metaphor” vs “literal” is both a false dichotomy and incomplete. Plenty of metaphor in literal parts of the text, and plenty of “literal” segments that are, on a closer reading and armed with critical tools, loaded in metaphor, allusion, and interpretation. It can be frustrating to be where you are, but you’d have to be a dullard or insanely arrogant to think you can perfectly understand the texts of the bible with a quick review. For the most part, arm yourself with interpretive tools, patience, and lean on some scholarly work (remember we’re talking about by far the most studied and analyzed documents in human history), not to mention churchly interpreters if you’re asking faith questions, and you’ll realize the text is a lot deeper and more profound than you think.
That’s not to say the “did X happen?!” questions aren’t important. They’re hugely important. But we end up talking about too many (potentially unrelated) things at once if we don’t ask these questions more precisely about specific books, narrative segments, etc. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:54 AM Author: you've given me a lot to think about So, quite literally, read post hoc rationalizations. That's your suggestion, i.e., read what people who already believe the Bible is true for interpretation of the Bible to determine its truth? Aren't important documents supposed to have some self-evident indicia of reliability? Why is the history of scholarship any evidence of its truth? It's just evidence that the Bible has been studied. I grant that. I just don't understand why I need to read so much around the Bible to determine whether or not the Bible is actually true. This seems like a ludicrous exercise we don't perform for any other book. It seems like the Bible is propped up by scholarly work. Why can't it stand on its own? |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 12:08 PM Author: potluck You can read the bible devotionally and spiritually and “plainly” for a lifetime and grow and gain from doing so. Most people do. If you’re more cynical and more skeptical, which I am and I gather you are, you can pose tough questions to the text, arm yourself with some of the more interesting things people have ever had to say or noticed about the text—often, it turns out, the literary form of a 2500 year old text is somewhat difficult to intuit without practice, or Hebrew idiom makes no sense without some nitty gritty linguistic work, or a seemingly irrelevant spinoff in a gospel narrative is a clear allusion to a separate passage from scripture that you missed but that makes the intended meaning clearer—and see where things go. I can’t really do this work for you because it’s not clear what exactly is troubling you. Nor would I claim to have all the answers. I can try to help point you towards resources or ways of thinking about this that might help you clarify your thoughts either direction. Not sure. But I will say on a pretty sincere note that while I find scripture helpful, profound, challenging, etc. for my own faith, I’d never be able to be a Christian if I didn’t find the larger story and person of Christ to be compelling. If you’re actually oscillating between faith and doubt, and I’m not clear that you are, you won’t (imo) be able to answer the questions you’re asking just by interrogating the texts further. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983399) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:22 AM Author: UhOh whole lotta hedging and diverting here (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983259) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:28 AM Author: you've given me a lot to think about It's intellectually embarrassing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983284) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:37 AM Author: Maidenless You want hard proof and will never receive it. It is entirely a phenomenon of human psychology that men would proudly be skinned alive or crucified upside down after meeting Christ which serves as the proof of his miracles. You will NEVER witness the miracles he performed in your life, and that has always been priced into the religion. “Geee idk if I believe Jesus really performed miracles only possible by the Son of God!” WOW kike…breathtaking observation here! How did anyone not consider this? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983308) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:44 AM Author: you've given me a lot to think about You seem worked up. >It is entirely a phenomenon of human psychology that men would proudly be skinned alive or crucified upside down after meeting Christ which serves as the proof of his miracles Allow me to posit one simple explanation: Fame. Somebody posted a thread the other day talking about early Christians basically committing suicide by cop so they could be remembered as martyrs. It is indeed entirely a phenomenon of human psychology. But it doesn't necessarily imply God. It doesn't even probably imply it, imo. It's just fanatical retards seeking earthly glory >Just trust me, bro! They happened! No |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:51 AM Author: Maidenless If you choose the most pessimistic interpretation of anything you will always find this path. You sound like Judas asking why they didn’t sell the christening oil to give $ to the poor.
You are literally citing deranged schizoid poasts on autoadmit as the basis of your theological perspective? You are cooked… |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:57 AM Author: you've given me a lot to think about Yeah.... I think I'm just not gonna believe that your King of the Jews has come to rescue humanity. I'm just not Btw Christianity is proto-Marxism |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 12:32 PM Author: Maidenless Socialism for a homogenous country of white Catholics is 180 btw (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983462) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 1:07 PM Author: you've given me a lot to think about Sorry, racism isn't Christian. Indeed, Christianity is decidedly non-racist. Square that circle, champ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983548) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 2:11 PM Author: Maidenless Now you’re an authority on Christianity? It’s “racist” to think white people can have their own country? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983805) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 2:18 PM Author: you've given me a lot to think about C'mon now. "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." https://biblehub.com/galatians/3-28.htm >It’s “racist” to think white people can have their own country? I didnt say that (obviously). But you're clearly invoking white nationalism which, based on my understanding, and I've clearly given this topic more thought than you, is not compatible with Christianity. But do go on how you'll enforce a white Christian ethnostate, deporting all NIGGERS in the name of Christ Jesus |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:59 AM Author: potluck I re-read what I said and I disagree. The bible isn’t written as one long historical record. It’s got many genres and styles. You can’t pretend to understand it by reducing it to “literal vs metaphorical,” particularly when metaphor isn’t even the right category. You have to ask more precise questions than “is the OT true?” “Is the NT true?” if you want meaningful discussion. I can just say “yes” without elaboration, but it hasn’t started to answer what’s got the other poster all worked up here. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983371) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 12:06 PM Author: you've given me a lot to think about I fail to understand why we have to perform all these ridiculous exercises in the first place. It's a book. It's fiction or non-fiction. What's so hard about that? >Noooo it's le special book it's allowed to be vague as fuck even though it's also the Truth and the Way and you get eternal damnation for not believing in it, just trust bro, listen to the experts! Imagine if we said that about any other historical record, book, or writing at all. Dammit this used to be a Law forum |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 12:30 PM Author: Maidenless Just keep taking your family to church please and don’t share your Reddit musings with them (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983449) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 12:52 PM Author: you've given me a lot to think about I will but if my son doesnt have a crisis of faith on his own ill inspire one for his own sake. It's good to doubt your faith. It should be able to stand up to doubt. Big growth moment (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983498) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:36 AM Author: .......,,.,.,.,.,,,,,,.,.,..,.,. Gospels are a somewhat inaccurate historical record and John was a crazy fuck. Luke is the best Writer. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983120) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:54 AM Author: Charles Tyrwhitt Dad What's fascinating is how the western world went from the Roman empire to a world where people obsessed - for centuries - over the meaning of this word or that phrase in the Bible or the exact nature of the divinity of Christ and what the holy trinity really exemplified, with plenty of accompanying bloodshed.
I can see why people are dismissive of the Bible and it does contain kooky stuff, but it also contains a tremendous amount of good wisdom about human relationships and morality. Plenty of material for the thoughtful person, made more poignant by the relevancy after 2,000+ years. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:17 AM Author: A Real Life Male Model the un-bibled, if pressed for time, should read Genesis as slowly and carefully as possible. And then read Gospel of Luke/Acts of the Apostles as slowly as possible.
That will suffice. |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:52 AM Author: Peter Brady I would throw Romans in if said person wants to understand the direction of Christian thought post the events in the Gospels. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983190) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:34 AM Author: A Real Life Male Model yeah i was trying for one book from each testament, and cheated already by merging Luke/Acts (which tbh is a legit merge).
you could add exodus and romans if you have more time, probably the next higher level |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:36 AM Author: Peter Brady (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983305) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:23 AM Author: UhOh which version is the most accurate? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983268) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 11:32 AM Author: A Real Life Male Model the hebrew and greek versions.
apart from learning those languages, just go New American. Youre reading translations, so take that into account and let do |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 10:57 AM Author: you've given me a lot to think about Seems like Christianity is a Jewish messianic sect that really only blew up because they started letting non-Jews in and stopped requiring circumcision/kosher food rules. When Rome took it up, since they were the center of civilization, it grew enormously. Plus the architects of Christianity, whoever they are, basically made an amalgamated myth figure named Jesus by ripping off neighboring myth figures like Zoroaster. This all seems a lot more likely than the whole breaking of physics by the chosen one, i.e., miracles. Idk. Feel free to prove me wrong |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 12:35 PM Author: "'"'"'"''' If you can believe there’s a god at all what’s so hard to believe about the miracles (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983469) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 12:50 PM Author: you've given me a lot to think about Basically, you can believe whatever you want. To answer seriously, a god at least fits into the causal argument, i.e., the original cause a la Aquinas. Miracles, the breaking of physics, requires a much greater leap. Plus their physical nature demands physical proof, which is conveniently never there. That's the difference |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 4:27 PM Author: "'"'"'"''' I mean physics were either broken or created out of nothing at the beginning of the universe, so why can’t a small break happen later (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48984261) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 12:10 PM Author: \"''"\'""\''\"\''"\' what was John's reaction when you "finished" him off (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983401) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 12:29 PM Author: .......,,.,.,.,.,,,,,,.,.,..,.,. he probably rushed to an obscure 1990s era message board to make some half assed jewish gay joke (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48983442) |
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Date: June 3rd, 2025 4:30 PM Author: Kenneth Play (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48984269) |
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Date: June 4th, 2025 12:47 AM Author: CapTTTainFalcon only mark is good (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5732778&forum_id=2Elisa#48985286) |