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Question about European feudalism.

Was this system as singularly shitty as it sounds, or have m...
motley orange death wish striped hyena
  06/14/13
just walk outside bro
Nubile factory reset button
  05/29/25
(and yes, OP's country has a third world gini coefficient)
Nubile factory reset button
  05/29/25
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Nubile factory reset button
  06/03/25
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Nubile factory reset button
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nyuug
  07/07/26
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nyuug
  07/08/26
Have most large-scale agricultural civilizations over the la...
kink-friendly stock car
  05/29/25
Yes, it was terrible, it was the first form of mass-egalitar...
supple maroon newt
  05/29/25
(ignores every other form of mass-agriculture that preceded ...
kink-friendly stock car
  05/29/25
They were better because you had different tribal clans owni...
supple maroon newt
  05/29/25
read the history of the early hydrological civilizations of ...
kink-friendly stock car
  05/29/25
Better to be a serf under a Warrior Clique (blessed by the P...
Razzmatazz Menage Nowag
  07/01/25
...
Wonderful brindle boiling water boistinker
  07/13/25
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Glittery Private Investor
  07/13/25
what part of: the peasants are revolting, don't u get?
lemon boltzmann
  05/29/25
cq
anal point
  05/29/25
I'd say that like slavery it probably depends on a lot on ju...
Drab Duck-like Dragon Lettuce
  06/03/25
teen black death survivors were the original Boomers
Razzmatazz Menage Nowag
  07/02/25
...
Crimson fragrant halford
  12/18/25
i wish i could have sworn fealty to an employer like a serf ...
galvanic location
  06/08/25
Serfs had tons of time off & feast days. It wasn't as ba...
Alcoholic frozen address
  07/01/25
really depended on the country, the region, and the lord re...
Honey-headed tank hell
  07/16/25
It worked out really well for most folks. Asia had similar s...
Sable Talented Haunted Graveyard
  11/11/25
it was a nanny state.
Electric field
  11/24/25
Most societies were nomadic. Home sapiens only became a sett...
Sable Talented Haunted Graveyard
  12/08/25
actual feudalism was probably fine and shitty in parts four...
Honey-headed tank hell
  12/18/25
13th century English peasant: 1620 chill working hours per y...
blue hairy legs
  04/23/26
"Before capitalism, most people did not work very long ...
blue hairy legs
  04/23/26


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: June 14th, 2013 10:27 AM
Author: motley orange death wish striped hyena

Was this system as singularly shitty as it sounds, or have most societies historically been based on similar systems?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#23393887)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 4:29 AM
Author: Nubile factory reset button

just walk outside bro

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48969812)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 4:30 AM
Author: Nubile factory reset button

(and yes, OP's country has a third world gini coefficient)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48969813)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 3rd, 2025 9:24 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48985020)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 8th, 2025 5:55 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48997575)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2025 9:14 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49064860)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 3rd, 2025 8:14 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49070377)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 6th, 2025 8:32 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49077411)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 8th, 2025 10:20 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49084518)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49098591)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 14th, 2025 5:12 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49101058)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 16th, 2025 3:43 AM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49105012)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 20th, 2025 8:00 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49117359)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 24th, 2025 5:37 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49128622)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 29th, 2025 11:50 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49141968)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 30th, 2025 6:59 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49143857)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 4th, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49156580)



Reply Favorite

Date: August 10th, 2025 8:35 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49172980)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:33 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49421817)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:48 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49421862)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 8:57 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49421881)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 11th, 2025 11:28 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49422254)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 12th, 2025 7:15 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49424474)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 12th, 2025 9:29 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49425035)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 13th, 2025 1:21 AM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49425543)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 13th, 2025 4:52 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49427654)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 16th, 2025 8:27 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49436681)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 16th, 2025 9:03 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49436785)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 17th, 2025 6:11 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49439167)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 18th, 2025 7:01 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49441985)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 23rd, 2025 8:51 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49454945)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 12:36 AM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49455274)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 6:55 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49457596)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 24th, 2025 9:29 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49458108)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 12:15 AM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49461550)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 4:27 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49463581)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 26th, 2025 10:41 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49464738)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 27th, 2025 5:48 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49466319)



Reply Favorite

Date: November 28th, 2025 12:55 AM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49467160)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 2nd, 2025 6:52 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49478445)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 4th, 2025 5:54 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49484240)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 4th, 2025 9:25 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49484832)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 7th, 2025 7:20 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49492316)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 8th, 2025 12:55 AM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49493000)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 8th, 2025 8:23 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49495268)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 9th, 2025 3:57 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49497250)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 10th, 2025 9:55 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49500993)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 16th, 2025 9:07 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49515504)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 1:04 AM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49518561)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 21st, 2025 8:59 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49529071)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 22nd, 2025 8:47 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49532458)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 24th, 2025 12:00 AM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49536032)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2025 6:54 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49545634)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 28th, 2025 7:05 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49545665)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 29th, 2025 9:19 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49548639)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 4th, 2026 8:56 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49562700)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 6th, 2026 7:39 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49567730)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 12th, 2026 6:44 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49584404)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 14th, 2026 6:47 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49589879)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 20th, 2026 7:47 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49604959)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:08 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49838395)



Reply Favorite

Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:38 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49838453)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 13th, 2026 7:20 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49884309)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 19th, 2026 8:56 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49890852)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 21st, 2026 5:25 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49893306)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 25th, 2026 6:16 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49900593)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 26th, 2026 8:51 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49903004)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 28th, 2026 5:55 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49905466)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 3rd, 2026 5:16 PM
Author: Nubile factory reset button



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49913565)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2026 11:56 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49985467)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 8th, 2026 7:24 PM
Author: nyuug



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49987106)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:47 AM
Author: kink-friendly stock car

Have most large-scale agricultural civilizations over the last 5k years relegated the vast majority of their agricultural labor force /population to a state of semi-slavery enforced by an exploitative elite with a monopoly on violence?

yes

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48969854)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:51 AM
Author: supple maroon newt

Yes, it was terrible, it was the first form of mass-egalitarianism. All the old Tribal Clans were abolished & people were turned into landless serfs, the only exceptions were the Elite Warlord Clans that got to rule as Lords/Kings.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48969860)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 5:55 AM
Author: kink-friendly stock car

(ignores every other form of mass-agriculture that preceded it)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48969863)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 7:47 AM
Author: supple maroon newt

They were better because you had different tribal clans owning different regions, serfdom was a form of quasi-slavery, only the Kings/Lords had property rights.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48969954)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 1:37 PM
Author: kink-friendly stock car

read the history of the early hydrological civilizations of egypt, mesopotamia, the indus and the yellow river valleys

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48971066)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 1st, 2025 11:58 PM
Author: Razzmatazz Menage Nowag

Better to be a serf under a Warrior Clique (blessed by the Priestly Clique) than a humiliated cog of the Merchant Clique imho

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49065184)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 6:53 PM
Author: Wonderful brindle boiling water boistinker



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49098592)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 13th, 2025 7:03 PM
Author: Glittery Private Investor



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49098608)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 8:52 AM
Author: lemon boltzmann

what part of: the peasants are revolting, don't u get?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48970037)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 29th, 2025 8:54 AM
Author: anal point

cq

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48970041)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 3rd, 2025 9:32 PM
Author: Drab Duck-like Dragon Lettuce

I'd say that like slavery it probably depends on a lot on just where you are, so not singularly shitty just situation dependent

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48985033)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 2nd, 2025 12:06 AM
Author: Razzmatazz Menage Nowag

teen black death survivors were the original Boomers

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49065206)



Reply Favorite

Date: December 18th, 2025 4:10 AM
Author: Crimson fragrant halford



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49518664)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 8th, 2025 6:07 PM
Author: galvanic location

i wish i could have sworn fealty to an employer like a serf to a feudal lord when i was younger. would have saved me a lot of pain cycling through shitty short-term jobs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#48997602)



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Date: July 1st, 2025 10:15 PM
Author: Alcoholic frozen address

Serfs had tons of time off & feast days. It wasn't as bad as most people think. They didn't have running water or electricity, but neither did the rulers.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49065026)



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Date: July 16th, 2025 4:01 AM
Author: Honey-headed tank hell

really depended on the country, the region, and the lord

removing technology from the equation it could range from far more harmonious than what we have today to utterly hellish. the general trend towards centralization of power from the early middle ages and on and the rise of the professional state theoretically ensures a general better standard of living for a subject on average, or at the very least a set "floor" for QoL, but ends up removing a lot to do with the nuances of power relations and enduring senses of community in the process

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49105022)



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Date: November 11th, 2025 8:49 PM
Author: Sable Talented Haunted Graveyard

It worked out really well for most folks. Asia had similar systems in place for thousands of years and they were stable societies

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49421865)



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Date: November 24th, 2025 10:06 PM
Author: Electric field

it was a nanny state.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49458174)



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Date: December 8th, 2025 8:26 PM
Author: Sable Talented Haunted Graveyard

Most societies were nomadic. Home sapiens only became a settled species during the most recent 5% of our time on earth. There's absolutely nothing normal (or even good) about anything we do today, unless your goal is simply to put more people on the earth's surface

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49495273)



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Date: December 18th, 2025 1:07 AM
Author: Honey-headed tank hell

actual feudalism was probably fine and shitty in parts

foursquare feudalism otoh is a lot of fun and harmless if it's not infested with faggots

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49518563)



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Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:17 PM
Author: blue hairy legs

13th century English peasant: 1620 chill working hours per year with your bros, downtime all winter, zero "thank" emails

you: hiting 1620 billables in July while on your "working vacation" at the beach with your kids

https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/rauch/worktime/hours_workweek.html

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49838409)



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Date: April 23rd, 2026 7:17 PM
Author: blue hairy legs

"Before capitalism, most people did not work very long hours at all. The tempo of life was slow, even leisurely; the pace of work relaxed. Our ancestors may not have been rich, but they had an abundance of leisure. When capitalism raised their incomes, it also took away their time."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2281707&forum_id=2Elisa#49838410)