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How large of a portfolio is needed to spend $200k annually indefinitely?

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Sienna Cerebral Double Fault
  07/07/25
10mm
unholy ocher orchestra pit
  07/07/25
fuck my ass.
Talented state
  07/07/25
This seems about right. $10 million yields $300k pretax annu...
Sienna Cerebral Double Fault
  07/07/25
There is no 3% rule. No one needs to be that conservative. ...
Lavender Whorehouse Philosopher-king
  07/07/25
its not even that conservative dude. inflation, fees, fines,...
unholy ocher orchestra pit
  07/07/25
To my mind, 3% is aggressive going forward and a 2.5% or eve...
Sienna Cerebral Double Fault
  07/07/25
3% cagr means you could live 45 years with $5M on $200K spen...
violet theater pervert
  07/07/25
you are retarded if you pay an effective tax rate of 33% on ...
Ruddy shrine
  07/07/25
Paying taxes is the law
Sienna Cerebral Double Fault
  07/07/25
Even if you are single, do no tax planning and have no deduc...
Ruddy shrine
  07/08/25
You're forgetting state taxes 😵‍💫
Sienna Cerebral Double Fault
  07/08/25
$6m
bronze resort boiling water
  07/07/25
$200k is this supposed to be some kind of a trick question
Chrome Self-centered Trust Fund
  07/07/25
...
Flatulent Provocative Church
  07/07/25
...
Racy Fuchsia Therapy
  07/07/25
...
Soul-stirring chapel
  07/07/25
Between $4m-$5m depending on how conservative/aggressive you...
Lavender Whorehouse Philosopher-king
  07/07/25
I said spend, so obviously I meant post-tax
Sienna Cerebral Double Fault
  07/07/25
Between $5.3m - $7.5m depending on various assumptions and d...
Lavender Whorehouse Philosopher-king
  07/07/25
what the fuck are you buying every year?
Pale internet-worthy bawdyhouse water buffalo
  07/07/25
I dunno. Might enjoy having a place to live, food to eat, c...
Sienna Cerebral Double Fault
  07/07/25
you can do that for far less even in blue states.
Pale internet-worthy bawdyhouse water buffalo
  07/07/25
Think of it this way. Hedge funds typically charge 2 and 20...
spruce overrated pit
  07/07/25
answers like this always amaze me on xo. basic percentages b...
unholy ocher orchestra pit
  07/07/25
This makes no sense. OP, don’t think about it this way...
glittery flushed space depressive
  07/07/25
And yet, the answer it gives (between 5 and 7 million) is th...
spruce overrated pit
  07/07/25
Lmao
Erotic Appetizing Church Building Coffee Pot
  07/07/25
you probably literally only need $4m for that. Assuming you...
Pale internet-worthy bawdyhouse water buffalo
  07/07/25
I'll probably have $10 million or thereabouts when I hit The...
Sienna Cerebral Double Fault
  07/07/25
the reality though is that you should actually spend the 200...
unholy ocher orchestra pit
  07/07/25
You wanna try that again
Sienna Cerebral Double Fault
  07/07/25
he clearly meant "shouldn't"
Pale internet-worthy bawdyhouse water buffalo
  07/07/25
Depends, how much of the principal do you want to leave behi...
Pontificating smoky cuckold lodge
  07/07/25
Leave behind for what
Sienna Cerebral Double Fault
  07/07/25
whatever you want my friend. kids, family, charity, etc.
Pontificating smoky cuckold lodge
  07/07/25
fuck jews
Soul-stirring chapel
  07/07/25
"Leaving behind" makes almost no sense unless you'...
Lavender Whorehouse Philosopher-king
  07/07/25
why is everyone assuming ~1/3 in taxes? that’s a high ...
Talented state
  07/07/25
generally retirement income from QPs is ordinary income.
Pontificating smoky cuckold lodge
  07/07/25
withdrawals from 401(k)s and the like, yes. but i don’...
Talented state
  07/07/25


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:03 PM
Author: Sienna Cerebral Double Fault



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079518)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:04 PM
Author: unholy ocher orchestra pit

10mm

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079524)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:09 PM
Author: Talented state

fuck my ass.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079549)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:10 PM
Author: Sienna Cerebral Double Fault

This seems about right. $10 million yields $300k pretax annually under the 3% rule, and assume 1/3 tax rate

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079556)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:10 PM
Author: Lavender Whorehouse Philosopher-king

There is no 3% rule. No one needs to be that conservative. There is no version of the Trinity Study which supports this.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079558)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:12 PM
Author: unholy ocher orchestra pit

its not even that conservative dude. inflation, fees, fines, taxes, etc gobble up all of your supposed "earnings". the economy isnt really growing faster than that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079572)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:15 PM
Author: Sienna Cerebral Double Fault

To my mind, 3% is aggressive going forward and a 2.5% or even 2% rule is probably more appropriate

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079584)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 4:07 PM
Author: violet theater pervert

3% cagr means you could live 45 years with $5M on $200K spend and not run out of $. If you can get 5% then you can do $4.2M and never have your balance drop.

edit: factor 2% inflation to the $200K spend - you'd run out of $ in 45 years with $5M

edit v2: I guess if you pay 25% taxes you'd run out of $ in 30 years vs. 44 and change, assuming you pay taxes on the $ you withdraw/spend

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079801)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 5:30 PM
Author: Ruddy shrine

you are retarded if you pay an effective tax rate of 33% on 300k in investment income.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49080104)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 6:20 PM
Author: Sienna Cerebral Double Fault

Paying taxes is the law

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49080286)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 8th, 2025 6:02 AM
Author: Ruddy shrine

Even if you are single, do no tax planning and have no deductions whatsoever, and every penny of income is STCG or dividends, the effective tax rate is still less than 25%. Additional medicare tax and NIIT pushes it to a bit over 26%. Even in the basic worst case scenario you don't pay 33%.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49081696)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 8th, 2025 11:01 AM
Author: Sienna Cerebral Double Fault

You're forgetting state taxes 😵‍💫

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49082266)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:07 PM
Author: bronze resort boiling water

$6m

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079539)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:08 PM
Author: Chrome Self-centered Trust Fund

$200k is this supposed to be some kind of a trick question

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079545)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:11 PM
Author: Flatulent Provocative Church



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079562)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:44 PM
Author: Racy Fuchsia Therapy



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079697)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 4:39 PM
Author: Soul-stirring chapel



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079950)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:11 PM
Author: Lavender Whorehouse Philosopher-king

Between $4m-$5m depending on how conservative/aggressive you want to be. That's to get $200k pre-tax (increasing annually for inflation); you'd need to adjust upward if you want a post-tax figure.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079563)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:15 PM
Author: Sienna Cerebral Double Fault

I said spend, so obviously I meant post-tax

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079588)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:27 PM
Author: Lavender Whorehouse Philosopher-king

Between $5.3m - $7.5m depending on various assumptions and desired level of conservatism.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079633)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:53 PM
Author: Pale internet-worthy bawdyhouse water buffalo

what the fuck are you buying every year?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079741)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:58 PM
Author: Sienna Cerebral Double Fault

I dunno. Might enjoy having a place to live, food to eat, clothes to wear, and so on.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079756)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 5:14 PM
Author: Pale internet-worthy bawdyhouse water buffalo

you can do that for far less even in blue states.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49080051)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:36 PM
Author: spruce overrated pit

Think of it this way. Hedge funds typically charge 2 and 20 (2% management fee on the principal, plus 20% of that year's return as a performance fee). So think of yourself as the manager of your personal "fund".

If you assume you're getting an 5% rate of return on your invested capital on average (pretty conservative), then you'd need $6,666,667. This would give a management fee of $133,333 plus a performance fee of $66,667 (6,666,667 * .05 * .20), which adds up to $200k. If you assume a 10% rate of return (maybe too aggressive) then you'd only need $5 million.

I am ignoring taxes here, you'd need a higher amount if you want $200k post tax.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079668)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:41 PM
Author: unholy ocher orchestra pit

answers like this always amaze me on xo. basic percentages but no reference to the fact that a guy who has 6.7mm in 2025 america shouldnt be thinking about "hedge funds" at all.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079685)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:50 PM
Author: glittery flushed space depressive

This makes no sense. OP, don’t think about it this way.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079724)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 4:27 PM
Author: spruce overrated pit

And yet, the answer it gives (between 5 and 7 million) is the same as everyone else is saying. It's a reasonable rule of thumb that still lets the principal grow.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079896)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:59 PM
Author: Erotic Appetizing Church Building Coffee Pot

Lmao

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079760)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:52 PM
Author: Pale internet-worthy bawdyhouse water buffalo

you probably literally only need $4m for that. Assuming you are reasonable with it. e.g., take out less during down market years, take out more when the market is up/stable.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079738)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:56 PM
Author: Sienna Cerebral Double Fault

I'll probably have $10 million or thereabouts when I hit The Wall in a couple years

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079751)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 3:59 PM
Author: unholy ocher orchestra pit

the reality though is that you should actually spend the 200k or even 100k unless youre puting a kid through college or something.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079762)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 4:01 PM
Author: Sienna Cerebral Double Fault

You wanna try that again

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079775)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 5:15 PM
Author: Pale internet-worthy bawdyhouse water buffalo

he clearly meant "shouldn't"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49080054)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 4:00 PM
Author: Pontificating smoky cuckold lodge

Depends, how much of the principal do you want to leave behind? Assuming all or most of it, and a 4-6% withdrawal rate and 35% estimated taxes you'd need between 5-7.5m.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079773)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 4:02 PM
Author: Sienna Cerebral Double Fault

Leave behind for what

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079779)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 4:02 PM
Author: Pontificating smoky cuckold lodge

whatever you want my friend. kids, family, charity, etc.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079783)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 4:39 PM
Author: Soul-stirring chapel

fuck jews

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079946)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 5:36 PM
Author: Lavender Whorehouse Philosopher-king

"Leaving behind" makes almost no sense unless you're talking truly generational wealth, which the OP isn't. It's another shit boomer concept, i.e., it's cool to be shitty egoists all your life because you'll leave son Johnny and daughter Lisa $4.1m when you die at 93 which will somehow absolve your sins.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49080120)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 4:22 PM
Author: Talented state

why is everyone assuming ~1/3 in taxes? that’s a high blended rate for that level of income in the first place, and i wouldn’t think it would be too hard to structure most of the income as LTCG. this admittedly leaves aside the issue of taxes remaining close their current rates indefinitely.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079865)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 4:46 PM
Author: Pontificating smoky cuckold lodge

generally retirement income from QPs is ordinary income.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49079978)



Reply Favorite

Date: July 7th, 2025 8:34 PM
Author: Talented state

withdrawals from 401(k)s and the like, yes. but i don’t think someone with $5-10M in cash/stocks/bonds has most of that in a 401(k).

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5747172&forum_id=2Reputation#49080738)