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Have any of y'all visited Uzbekistan?

Mostly interested in seeing Samarkand, would also likely fly...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
there's nothing interesting in tashkent. you can skip it ent...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
That's what I was thinking. Flights are just so few to Samar...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
take the train to samarkand. it's easy and cheap. been to...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
Fair enough, but the architecture in Samarkand is fascinatin...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
yeah, the registan and the avenue of the mausoleums are the ...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
I wasn't planning on a lengthy stay, figure two nights. That...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
two nights is fine. you can see the major shit in a full day...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
I wasn't planning on a full tour of the country. I'm thinkin...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
i'm a wannabe photog, so i can help you there. not a huge bu...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
Oh, the KZ portion is unrelated to photography. I'll be in A...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
yeah, KZ has some cool natural shit from what i've seen from...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
Yes, I need to be there.
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
you can even do a trip to KG from almaty, if you can get awa...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
Yeah, I already figured that I wouldn't have much to photogr...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
i didn't go to astana. i had no interest. i met a couple peo...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
I am looking at trip with stops in Almaty and Bishkek, worth...
bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film
  09/21/14
bishkek is literally a shithole and there's absolutely nothi...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
The problem is I need somewhere in between Europe and Asia t...
bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film
  09/21/14
kashgar / western china? ulanbataar?
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
I was in Ulaanbaatar like 10 days ago, not in that much of a...
bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film
  09/21/14
describe what you did and how it was.
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
Saw all the stuff in town which is doable in about a day, we...
bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film
  09/21/14
how were the girls? did you do any safari shit in the gob...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
Mongolian girls not so hot. Didn't have time this trip to go...
bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film
  09/21/14
I kinda want to tour the remains of Chkalov plant to see wha...
Bespoke Pearly Stage Really Tough Guy
  09/21/14
My grandma's home attendant is from Samarkand. They get elec...
Bespoke Pearly Stage Really Tough Guy
  09/21/14
Spasibo, comrade.
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
Uzbeks hate Tajiks too. Only Vlad keeps them from killing ea...
Bespoke Pearly Stage Really Tough Guy
  09/21/14
sart gibbons and slav chimps are exhibited in the same wing ...
plum roast beef mad cow disease
  01/10/15
tbf, the kyrgyz are infinitely more savage than the uzbeks.
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
Same difference. Kyrgyz are at least loyal to the empire and...
Bespoke Pearly Stage Really Tough Guy
  09/21/14
LJL at this ignorant american shit.. uzbech is not afghanist...
beady-eyed chartreuse quadroon
  01/10/15
The registan is pretty fucking impressive. I'd go back to Uz...
bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film
  01/10/15
...
UN peacekeeper
  06/15/26
sup?
bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film
  09/21/14
Holy shit. The train from Tashkent to Samarkand costs 12,000...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
That's the slow train, there's a fast train. The problem is ...
bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film
  09/21/14
Found it, at least according to this site ... just two hours...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
i actually used advantour to buy my train tix. i highly reco...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
If I do visit UZ, I'd need an invitation. Fucking CCCP-bloc ...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
Assuming you have a U.S. passport you don't need a LOI anymo...
bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film
  09/21/14
correct. you only need a LOI if you want to get your visa...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
For Kazakhstan, yes. But that's not what I've read for Uzbek...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
Fuck, y'all are right. http://www.uzbekistan.org/consular...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
I was in Uzbekistan in May, you don't need a LOI. Fill out y...
bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film
  09/21/14
Do you think I'd be good to go by waiting to get the visa un...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
absolutely not. you'd need to pay $70 for the LOI to get you...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
I start speaking English slowly and loudly, like other Ameri...
Provocative Bonkers Masturbator
  09/21/14
you'll likely be told "nyet" and have the door sla...
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
I have no experience with trying to COP a visa there. I like...
bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film
  09/21/14
does milana vayntraub poast here?
Unhinged Affirmative Action
  09/21/14
uuuunnnghhhh
scarlet apoplectic trailer park
  09/21/14
...
Vivacious Silver Philosopher-king
  09/21/14


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:06 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

Mostly interested in seeing Samarkand, would also likely fly into/out of Tashkent.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367338)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:09 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

there's nothing interesting in tashkent. you can skip it entirely. i saw everything i wanted in 2 hrs.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367343)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:11 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

That's what I was thinking. Flights are just so few to Samarkand, plus their Soviet-bloc visa policies.

Have you been to Samarkand?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367350)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:17 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

take the train to samarkand. it's easy and cheap.

been to samarkand/bukhara/khiva. i liked samarkand the best of the 3. i didnt think any of this shit was the most fascinating shit i've ever seen.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367383)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:18 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

Fair enough, but the architecture in Samarkand is fascinating to me.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367395)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:19 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

yeah, the registan and the avenue of the mausoleums are the two coolest things in UZ. both really impressive. the rest of it gets kinda old after a while.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367405)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:20 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

I wasn't planning on a lengthy stay, figure two nights. That would give me four shots at shooting in the golden hour.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367409)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:27 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

two nights is fine. you can see the major shit in a full day. are you planning on going to bukhara / khiva too?

photography in the golden hour at the registan is kinda shitty because of the shadows.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367447)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:32 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

I wasn't planning on a full tour of the country. I'm thinking of options to add on a definite trip to Kazakhstan. Figure a week in KZ, I'm looking to add a stop before and a stop or two after. Anything in Central Asia or Europe is a possibility.

Primary motivations for these added stops are photography and history.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367470)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:42 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

i'm a wannabe photog, so i can help you there. not a huge buff of timurid history tho.

there's literally nothing in KZ, and it's expensive and logistics are difficult. KZ is pure emptiness.

you're better off spending more time in UZ b/c that's where most of the photography and history is going to be.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367495)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:45 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

Oh, the KZ portion is unrelated to photography. I'll be in Almaty for a week. I will say that KZ has some amazing natural areas that rival some of the national parks we have in the Western US. They're just hard to get to and photograph, so few people know about them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367505)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:48 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

yeah, KZ has some cool natural shit from what i've seen from pics, but it's prohibitively inaccessible and expensive for tourists to visit. KG has much better natural shit (scenery and hiking) for much cheaper than KZ.

do you *need* to be in almaty for a week? what exactly are you gonna do there? the city itself was blah. i didn't even want to waste money going out to big almaty lake.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367520)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:49 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

Yes, I need to be there.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367525)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:51 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

you can even do a trip to KG from almaty, if you can get away. free visa and easy border crossing. and flights are like $60 o/w. nothing to do in bishkek, though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367535)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:53 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

Yeah, I already figured that I wouldn't have much to photograph in KZ, since I can't spend the time going out into nature ... although maybe to their version of the grand canyon, that's just a few hours from Almaty ... and I've heard that there's no point in going to Astana, as it's a sterile wanna-be Dubai.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367548)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:55 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

i didn't go to astana. i had no interest. i met a couple people who went and they said it's cool to see for a few minutes just to see the architecture itself, but that's it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367559)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 6:12 PM
Author: bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film

I am looking at trip with stops in Almaty and Bishkek, worth it for a few days? It looks like as of now U.S. citizens can visit Kazakhstan for up to 15 days visa free which makes it significantly more appealing to me. Would just be a few days in each on the way from Europe to Asia.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26368877)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:01 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

bishkek is literally a shithole and there's absolutely nothing to do. people go to KG for the nature/scenery/hiking/outdoorsy stuff. that shit doesn't seem to be what you like to do, and you'll need a lot of time to see it.

almaty is a pretty damn russian city. there's a cute church and some nice green parks, but that's really about it.

i wouldn't go out of my way to go to either place. turkmenistan is awesome and fascinating. i'd recommend that.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370733)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:04 PM
Author: bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film

The problem is I need somewhere in between Europe and Asia that is served on both ends by *A. I can fly into ALA from FRA and out to ICN and go from Almaty to Bishkek and back overland. I would just go to Bishkek for the weekend, I've read it's a surprisingly fun party town. It'd be winter time, so probably not the best time for nature stuff anyway.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370758)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:08 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

kashgar / western china? ulanbataar?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370800)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:10 PM
Author: bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film

I was in Ulaanbaatar like 10 days ago, not in that much of a rush to get back.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370815)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:11 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

describe what you did and how it was.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370829)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:13 PM
Author: bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film

Saw all the stuff in town which is doable in about a day, went out into the countryside, rode horses, chilled in gers, drank some horrific local moonshine. Ulaanbaatar gets a bad rep as being ugly as fuck, but I've seen much uglier cities. Other than the traffic and the pollution it was a pretty neat place, easy to get around, pretty decent nightlife. Cheap.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370849)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:14 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

how were the girls?

did you do any safari shit in the gobi?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370859)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:15 PM
Author: bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film

Mongolian girls not so hot. Didn't have time this trip to go to the Gobi, next time.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370871)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:22 PM
Author: Bespoke Pearly Stage Really Tough Guy

I kinda want to tour the remains of Chkalov plant to see what the sand nigger wannabes have managed to do with it. It would probably make me cry.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367415)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:15 PM
Author: Bespoke Pearly Stage Really Tough Guy

My grandma's home attendant is from Samarkand. They get electricity for 8 hours a day and the girls are all married out by 16yo. Her husband wanted a second wife but she told him she would cut off his balls. Its Afghanistan effectively. The level of savagery is something else. Samarkand is also hugely Tajik and not Uzbek so it wont give you a flavor for Uzbekistan generally.

They won the greencard lottery but arent staying here. They work here only long enough to buy enough farm land over there to move back. The Uzbek immigrants in the US for the most part have zero desire to stay. She goes back there every 3 months. They already have a decent sized farm and 2 huge houses. They invited me to the wedding of one of their sons.

Only way I'm visiting it is at the head of a column of Soviet tanks and only to kill every last living breathing nigger there.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367370)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:17 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

Spasibo, comrade.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367385)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:17 PM
Author: Bespoke Pearly Stage Really Tough Guy

Uzbeks hate Tajiks too. Only Vlad keeps them from killing each other.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367393)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 10th, 2015 7:42 PM
Author: plum roast beef mad cow disease

sart gibbons and slav chimps are exhibited in the same wing of the great house of primates

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#27093603)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:18 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

tbf, the kyrgyz are infinitely more savage than the uzbeks.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367394)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:19 PM
Author: Bespoke Pearly Stage Really Tough Guy

Same difference. Kyrgyz are at least loyal to the empire and know when to bend the knee. Good snipers too. Uzbeks cant shoot for shit and make poor soldiers. Never was any good use for them except to grow watermelons and shit like that.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367402)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 10th, 2015 7:43 PM
Author: beady-eyed chartreuse quadroon

LJL at this ignorant american shit.. uzbech is not afghanistan.. it gets a good amount of tourism in the summer too... its one of th eonly places i have not been in central asia and its on my list to go

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#27093609)



Reply Favorite

Date: January 10th, 2015 7:46 PM
Author: bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film

The registan is pretty fucking impressive. I'd go back to Uzbek to see khiva, bukhara and what's left of the Aral Sea.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#27093619)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 15th, 2026 9:56 PM
Author: UN peacekeeper



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#49941442)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 1:29 PM
Author: bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film

sup?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26367456)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 5:26 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

Holy shit. The train from Tashkent to Samarkand costs 12,000 Som. Which is $5.09. And that's first class. Second class seating is 6,500 Som, or $2.75.

That's a four hour train ride, btw.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26368652)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 6:11 PM
Author: bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film

That's the slow train, there's a fast train. The problem is they often sell out and you have to show up at the station with your passport to cop DAT ticket. It might be possible to get one through a tour agency in advance though. Also no one takes cards so you need to show up with blocks of som.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26368874)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 9:57 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

Found it, at least according to this site ... just two hours 10 minutes each way, the AFROSIYOB.

http://www.advantour.com/uzbekistan/trains.htm

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370699)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:02 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

i actually used advantour to buy my train tix. i highly recommend them -- reliable and professional. you're paying a $15 commission on each ticket, but as RSF said, they might sell out. i was afraid tix would sell out, and i went with them.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370739)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:06 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

If I do visit UZ, I'd need an invitation. Fucking CCCP-bloc rules. So yeah, it'll be easiest to go with them for that, the train, plus hotel.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370771)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:08 PM
Author: bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film

Assuming you have a U.S. passport you don't need a LOI anymore.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370799)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:09 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

correct.

you only need a LOI if you want to get your visa quickly in a foreign embassy.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370806)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:09 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

For Kazakhstan, yes. But that's not what I've read for Uzbekistan.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370811)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:10 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

Fuck, y'all are right.

http://www.uzbekistan.org/consular/visa/us_citizens_requirements/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370826)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:11 PM
Author: bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film

I was in Uzbekistan in May, you don't need a LOI. Fill out your paperwork, get your money order and bring your passport to the embassy. Once you have the visa you're good to go. They didn't even look at my flight / hotel reservations. Under the new Kazakh visa pilot program launched in July, Americans can enter Kazakhstan visa free for up to 15 days per visit.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370834)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:14 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

Do you think I'd be good to go by waiting to get the visa until I'm in Almaty? There's an embassy there.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370860)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:15 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

absolutely not. you'd need to pay $70 for the LOI to get your visa quickly there. without the LOI, it could take a week to process, and you only have a week. what if it gets delayed or fucked up somehow? this is incompetent and lazy soviet bureaucracy. who are you gonna complain to?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370872)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:21 PM
Author: Provocative Bonkers Masturbator

I start speaking English slowly and loudly, like other Americans. But fair point.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370913)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:22 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

you'll likely be told "nyet" and have the door slammed on your face, breh

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370925)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:16 PM
Author: bronze aphrodisiac faggotry stag film

I have no experience with trying to COP a visa there. I like to have my visas sorted before heading out.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370873)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:11 PM
Author: Unhinged Affirmative Action

does milana vayntraub poast here?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370832)



Reply Favorite

Date: September 21st, 2014 10:11 PM
Author: scarlet apoplectic trailer park

uuuunnnghhhh

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370836)



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Date: September 21st, 2014 10:27 PM
Author: Vivacious Silver Philosopher-king



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2680157&forum_id=2betting#26370974)