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NYU v. Michigan...Help?
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Date: March 21st, 2007 6:52 PM Author: insecure coiffed parlor I'm choosing between Michigan and NYU for law school. I know NYU is probably a bigger name, but here is my concern: I don't want to stay in New York after law school, most likely I'll want to be in Chicago, or a little less likely, Boston or DC. I know that an inordinantly high percentage of NYU grads stay in NY, but I don't really know if that's a result of preference or NYU being able to place much better in NY. Basically, I would like to choose the school that will give me better options in Chicago/DC/Boston, but if that school is Michigan, I don't want to be forced into working much harder and earning a much higher class rank. Also...I'm not really concerned with Vrankings when it comes to jobs, I'm looking for a market paying job with good qol, where its not impossible to make partner. Sorry for the long post, but I would really appreciate any input. No money from either school btw. |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 6:59 PM Author: Razzmatazz headpube visit both schools, and go to the one you like best. From what I understand, outside of NY, NYU places pretty much the same as Michigan, with maybe a slight edge to Mich in some markets. In your case, the difference isn't that important anyway--the environments are totally different.
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Date: March 21st, 2007 7:07 PM Author: Talented crimson tank you will have less competition for chicago placement at NYU. if you want to end up in chicago, go there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7792671) |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 10:40 AM Author: canary station I don't think NYU has a bigger name outside of North East.
The schools are very similar in terms of placing you in those markets. You will not have to work harder in Michigan.
I went to Michigan and I loved it. Most people who went to NYU loved it as well. Do you care about being in NYC v being in a small college town for 3 years? That's the only difference
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Date: March 21st, 2007 6:54 PM Author: insecure coiffed parlor Also...what does TTT mean? Its obviously something shitty...?? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7792536) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 7:07 PM Author: Yellow organic girlfriend TTT = schools you're choosing from. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7792669) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 7:10 PM Author: silver supple idea he suggested is this a joke? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7792699) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 7:37 PM Author: Bright razzle circlehead abode If you can't get into Harvard, maybe UofC would be a good fallback for you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7792861) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 7:56 PM Author: insecure coiffed parlor Thanks a lot to the first two people who posted...as for the rest of you, no i'm not joking around. I'm trying to pick a law school, so i've been looking at random posts on this site, and TTT is mentioned every other post. I figured there would be a few pricks who just spend time on this site so they can berate others, because in reality they don't have the requisite social skills to do anything else. If anybody else has any constructive information to offer though, I would sincerely appreciate it. Not to be a dick though...thanks again for the advice. |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 7:59 PM Author: Yellow organic girlfriend "I figured there would be a few pricks who just spend time on this site so they can berate others, because in reality they don't have the requisite social skills to do anything else."
At your service mother fucker. |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 8:24 PM Author: Talented crimson tank TTT = third tier toilet
board terminology that in truth references every non top-14 school and, to some, applies to any non-HYS school.
there is a lot of good info here if you look at old threads. do searches with the words "vs" and "vs." and "versus" and "michigan" and "chicago" and "umich" and whatnot and youll find lots of interesting and sometimes useful opinions. |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 9:32 PM Author: henna dragon I went to both (Michigan for real and NYU as a visiting student because my wife started work in NY before I finished school). There really wasn't a marked difference in quality between them. That's heresy on this board, but whatever.
NYU felt a little more serious, as in I knew these were the future corporate lawyers of America. Still, it was a very liberal place and right in the middle of Greenwich Village, which was nice.
Michigan is my preference, but I might be partial because it's where I spent my first 2 years. Bigger school, better sports, more beautiful law school, and a better college town. (NY is great, though. I think it comes down to personal preference on the "city v. town" issue.)
Facility-wise, NYU probably gets the edge, but only because they have the new building. (Two buildings total, one of them less than two years old.) Michigan, though, has the grandeur of Gothic architecture. In the summertime, it's about the prettiest place I've ever seen. Winter ain't bad either, but you generally ignore the beauty when you're rushing indoors.
No real difference in professors. I had a good cross-section at both schools and didn't find the legal insight any more perceptive at one over the other. If you think about it, the vast majority of professors at the Top 10-20 schools are Supreme Court clerks, so it's not like you will see true intellectual duds there.
Weather can suck in Michigan, but, if you want to live in Chicago, you already know what weather is like, so this probably won't be a big deal. New York has a lot milder winter.
Michigan is not expensive; New York is. On the flip side, Ann Arbor is a quiet town and New York is New York.
Job placement is not markedly different at either school. I can tell you that Michigan is highly regarded in both Chicago and NY legal circles. I've worked in both and have seen the recruiting process from the perspective of a NY firm. My firm (a pretty damn selective place) treats both schools about the same. My job search focused on both NY and Chicago, and I received comparable offers in both cities. Friends who went to NYU had similar offers with comparable grades.
Here's the point: I'd choose the school you like better. Frankly, I chose Michigan because I like football and wanted to avoid a big city for law school. I now get to be a Wolverine fan for life and say I loved law school. But that's me. You might have a different perspective on it all.
Good luck. |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 9:45 PM Author: Orchid Comical University Good post. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7793628) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 10:17 PM Author: Mahogany geriatric internal respiration TY. Very helpful. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7793812) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 9:58 PM Author: concupiscible ebony sneaky criminal trailer park New York is insanely expensive. You will probably save 10 grand a year going to Michigan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7793724) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 10:08 PM Author: insecure coiffed parlor Cicero's ghost- I actually e-mailed u a little while ago...thanks for all the advice guys (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7793777) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 10:17 PM Author: insecure coiffed parlor Cicero that was actually really helpful (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7793811) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 11:05 PM Author: Charcoal Principal's Office Kitty NYU really does place better than Michigan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7794114) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 11:09 PM Author: Odious coldplay fan And the second comment (about NYU probably having an edge in the Chicago market) rings true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7794145) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 11:20 PM Author: Dun Cracking Fat Ankles Cuckold in just about every market. Everyone in the legal profession knows NYU > Michigan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7794214) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 11:18 PM Author: mischievous racy hall Michigan trolling that's barely phoning it in. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7794204) |
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Date: March 21st, 2007 11:18 PM Author: Dun Cracking Fat Ankles Cuckold Nyu is #4. Michigan is #7. Enough said. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7794205) |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 4:04 AM Author: Orchid Comical University 1. Mich is #8. 2. Have fun picking schools based solely on USNWR. |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 4:09 AM Author: Dun Cracking Fat Ankles Cuckold Already at a Top 5 school by any measure.
HTH |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 5:02 AM Author: Orchid Comical University It does. Immensely. Thank you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7824236) |
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Date: March 22nd, 2007 12:47 AM Author: insecure coiffed parlor If I were interested in trying to do a clerkship, or eventually getting into teaching, (as I am still a college senior and might change my mind many times) would that change your opinions? Is Michigan supposed to be quite a bit better for clerkships/academia than NYU? Would that even matter if I were to work in private practice and try to get into academia later on? Thanks everyone |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 4:03 AM Author: Orchid Comical University Mich > NYU for clerkships/academia. This is probably because NYU is a relatively recent riser, while Mich is established. There are way more judges from Mich, and more that rank Mich higher or have former clerks that are now professors who either teach at or went to Mich.
I stopped short of saying Mich >> NYU for this stuff because I don't have numbers right now to back something like that up. But, for sure, it's at least a little better (and probably more).
EDIT: Clearly I was wrong here. They're almost indiscernible from each other in these regards. |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 4:10 AM Author: Dun Cracking Fat Ankles Cuckold Do you have any credibility?
NYU > Michigan for academia and clerkships. Looking at Larry Solum's data NYU has been 4th and 5th for academia for the past 3-4 years, and NYU SCOTUS > Michigan SCOTUS. |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 5:01 AM Author: Orchid Comical University In pure numbers, NYU > Mich for SCOTUS, but not in percentage. If you had 100 more students in your class, you'd expect to have a few more, wouldn't you? Normalization is important.
For 2006: NYU - 16 clerks, 450 in class, 3.6% Mich - 14 clerks, 375 in class, 5.1%
Source: http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/1996_06_scotus_clerks.shtml
Same goes for academia. I'm using Leiter's numbers for placement in "top" law jobs (I know, I know, but it's not terrible):
NYU - 14 in "top" jobs, 450 in class, 3.1% Mich - 18 in "top" jobs, 375 in class, 4.8%
Source: http://www.leiterrankings.com/jobs/2006job_teaching.shtml
EDIT: I just noticed the caveat about class size being possibly misleading. If that's the case, and you use recent class sizes with the same numbers, it's pretty much a wash.
All else being equal, I'd go with NYU anyway. |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 8:42 AM Author: Yellow organic girlfriend If you look at admissions numbers NYU just seems on another league as Michigan. I think recruiters know this and their recruiting will reflect this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7824335) |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 10:11 AM Author: High-end Frisky Nowag Box Office The truth of the matter is that outside of HYS, recruiters don't distinguish between schools in the #4 to #10 range. The truth of the matter is that Michigan reigns in Chicago while NYU is stronger in NYC. This is more a function of geography than anything else.
And just FYI, NYU's admissions numbers are hardly "on [sic] another league as Michigan." Keep in mind that, statistically speaking, a 3 point difference in LSAT scores is insignificant. |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 10:49 AM Author: dark sweet tailpipe that's actually most definitely not the truth of the matter, speaking from personal experience. i, along with some of my friends, got 1L firm jobs in the v20-40 range without ANY grades from ccn (all non-nyc). i don't know if people from #7-10 can say the same.
recruiters definitely distinguish, and at least 2 have outright told me such. it is their job to know where the best students go, and they act accordingly. |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 11:19 AM Author: Orchid Comical University Then they miss out on all the great students that took scholarship money over a slightly higher ranked school with no money. Ah well, their loss. :) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7824810) |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 11:19 AM Author: High-end Frisky Nowag Box Office You, along with "some" of your friends, got 1L firm jobs from CCN. That's definitive. And do you _not_ know if people from #7-10 can say the same because you, in fact, do _not_know?
For the sake of disclosure, I attended one of CCN so have no interest or desire to defend any school not so named. But, I _do_ have an interest in upholding the truth - something which seems to escape (or has never hit) many of us on this board. While there may be minor differences between CCN and #7-10, the differences are by no means huge and are certainly more distinct with Chicago and Columbia than with NYU (ok, my bias sort of shines through here). |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 11:23 AM Author: Buck-toothed Crotch Son Of Senegal Wait a minute, you mean two recruiters who were recruiting you told you flattering things about how highly they regard your law school? Color me shocked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7824827) |
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Date: March 27th, 2007 11:27 AM Author: High-end Frisky Nowag Box Office I was about to comment on the same. This guy is trolling away for CCN. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7824844) |
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Date: April 21st, 2007 3:20 AM Author: Charismatic french chef stage which one of CCN though? chi has 30-35% 1Ls getting firm jobs, while NYU has around 20-25%. don't have figures for CLS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=599411&forum_id=2thread_id=599411#7974595) |