\
  The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
BackRefresh Options Favorite

New Leiter-style placement rankings

Leiter just linked to this today
YMSP1982
  03/03/05
Good find!
Prof. Evan-2000 (ethics, aesthetics)
  03/03/05
http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=143619&mc=66...
Great Teacher Onizuka
  03/05/05
ty
Evan-2001
  11/27/06
I wonder why Northwestern performed so poorly.
Jr.
  03/05/05
It's what happens when you use TTT methodology.
Great Teacher Onizuka
  03/05/05
in fairness northwestern performs poorly by accurate methodo...
loafer
  11/27/06
virginia -- holy shit
gridlocker
  03/05/05
yeah it's BETTER THAN YALE!!!1
loafer
  11/27/06
doesn't exactly control for the differing total % of grads w...
poboysammich
  03/03/05
by combining LLMs and JD's he's killing NYU and Gtowns per c...
jacqueblackk
  03/03/05
LLMs everywhere have trouble finding work in the US. I gues...
In Soviet Russia, Rule 12 violates YOU!
  03/05/05
exactly...NYU and GULC have huge LLM programs... I'd al...
jacqueblackk
  03/05/05
EDIT: That is bullshit considering that Columbia have the be...
Columbia JD
  03/05/05
NYU/Georgetown must have hundreds of tax LLMs, they're the o...
... .... ........ .......... ........ ..
  03/05/05
yale llm
Senator
  03/13/05
Bad methodology yields bad results.
IH
  03/05/05
How do you define a bad result? When you are disappointed wi...
Jr.
  03/05/05
You get bad results when -- you don't distinguish between...
Great Teacher Onizuka
  03/05/05
His methodology was not very rigorous.
IH
  03/05/05
This is a bullshit study. Eg. CLS has 84 JD's at Cravath ...
Columbia JD
  03/05/05
It's because Cravath does not list *ANY* of their associates...
Great Teacher Onizuka
  03/05/05
Ahh... YMSP1982... I wonder how he's doing these days.
MindTheGap76 (is semi-retired)
  11/27/06


Poast new message in this thread





Date: March 3rd, 2005 7:13 PM
Author: YMSP1982
Subject: Leiter just linked to this today

I haven't seen this posted here, yet, so thought I'd point it out.

http://www.calvin.edu/admin/csr/students/sullivan/law/index.htm

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2251853)





Date: March 3rd, 2005 7:15 PM
Author: Prof. Evan-2000 (ethics, aesthetics)

Good find!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2251864)





Date: March 5th, 2005 3:10 PM
Author: Great Teacher Onizuka

http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=143619&mc=66&forum_id=2

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2263198)





Date: November 27th, 2006 11:16 PM
Author: Evan-2001

ty

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#7082422)





Date: March 5th, 2005 6:52 AM
Author: Jr.

I wonder why Northwestern performed so poorly.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2262486)





Date: March 5th, 2005 3:09 PM
Author: Great Teacher Onizuka

It's what happens when you use TTT methodology.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2263188)





Date: November 27th, 2006 11:44 PM
Author: loafer

in fairness northwestern performs poorly by accurate methodologies too

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#7082735)





Date: March 5th, 2005 1:46 PM
Author: gridlocker
Subject: virginia -- holy shit

maybe i've underestimated the place

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2262979)





Date: November 27th, 2006 11:45 PM
Author: loafer

yeah it's BETTER THAN YALE!!!1

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#7082739)





Date: March 3rd, 2005 9:00 PM
Author: poboysammich

doesn't exactly control for the differing total % of grads who go into firm jobs.

This study would be better if they normalized the schools not by class size but by the size of the subset of the class that goes to work at law firms.

The assumption there would be that everyone who wants to work for a law firm can, which i think would be a pretty safe assumption given the schools we're talking about.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2252542)





Date: March 3rd, 2005 9:05 PM
Author: jacqueblackk

by combining LLMs and JD's he's killing NYU and Gtowns per capita numbers

i heard LLMs at NYU have like a 50% placement rate

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2252570)





Date: March 5th, 2005 1:54 PM
Author: In Soviet Russia, Rule 12 violates YOU! (51 A.D.2d 21)

LLMs everywhere have trouble finding work in the US. I guess some schools have a lot more of them, though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2263002)





Date: March 5th, 2005 2:16 PM
Author: jacqueblackk

exactly...NYU and GULC have huge LLM programs...

I'd also say that the difference between a Y/H LLM and one from NYU/CLS/GULC... is greater than the difference between a JD from Y/H v. NYU/CLS/GULC...

it would be interesting to see these numbers with JD's alone...perhaps the forthcoming xoxo/GTO/IH study will do something like that...



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2263053)





Date: March 5th, 2005 2:55 PM
Author: Columbia JD

EDIT: That is bullshit considering that Columbia have the best rated LLM programs, and Yale is not top 10, but Penn is tOP 5. I don't think LLM programs have the same hierarchy.

http://www.thelawjournal.co.uk/Ranking%20LLM%20U.S.%20Programmes%201.htm

HTH

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2263138)





Date: March 5th, 2005 3:05 PM
Author: ... .... ........ .......... ........ ..

NYU/Georgetown must have hundreds of tax LLMs, they're the only game in town for the tax LLM, and they still get lots of shitty TTT people trying to bootstrap themselves up with the credential and failing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2263167)





Date: March 13th, 2005 5:32 PM
Author: Senator (nybengoshim@yahoo.co.jp)
Subject: yale llm

It's rather clear they don't . My recollectino was that 5 years ago, or 7 or asomething, Yale didn't even have a formal LLM courtse of study, though i may be wrong. But i find it equally ridiculous that they would not have a top 10 program - what?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2323630)





Date: March 5th, 2005 1:58 PM
Author: IH (SeniorAnalyst@gmail.com)

Bad methodology yields bad results.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2263013)





Date: March 5th, 2005 2:10 PM
Author: Jr.

How do you define a bad result? When you are disappointed with the outcome?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2263042)





Date: March 5th, 2005 3:02 PM
Author: Great Teacher Onizuka

You get bad results when

-- you don't distinguish between recent hires and people hired in the 1960s

-- you don't adjust for geographical preferences

-- you don't adjust for sectoral preferences

-- you don't adjust for LLM students

-- you use a geographically biased sample of firms

-- you use Martindale-Hubbell, which is very incomplete (for instance, for 2 of the 3 NY firms they looked at, NONE of their associates are listed in Martindale!)

-- you use an arbitrary methodology that favors large schools (in other words, you use a methodology designed to put Texas in the top 15)

-- you only examine some schools and not all schools



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2263154)





Date: March 5th, 2005 4:00 PM
Author: IH (SeniorAnalyst@gmail.com)

His methodology was not very rigorous.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2263411)





Date: March 5th, 2005 3:02 PM
Author: Columbia JD

This is a bullshit study.

Eg. CLS has 84 JD's at Cravath vs the 19 on the report. The source of information (martindale.com), is not a good resource to do such a project and exposes the immediate shortfalls of the study.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2263156)





Date: March 5th, 2005 3:07 PM
Author: Great Teacher Onizuka

It's because Cravath does not list *ANY* of their associates in Martindale, only their partners and counsel. Same with Sullivan. So, for 2 of the 3 NY firms, associates are completely excluded (hence why you end up with only 19 CLS grads at Cravath instead of 84).

Now, throw in the fact that the study is ALREADY heavily stacked against schools that send a lot of people to NY, as well as the other major sources of error (not adjusting for sectoral preferences etc.), and you've got a study that's not really telling you anything at all.

EDIT: See what I mean for Cravath:

http://www.martindale.com/xp/Martindale/Lawyer_Locator/Search_Lawyer_Locator/search_detail.xml?OO=1&oid=461650&attid=&pflag=1&PRV=AMO&pstring=

No associates, only partners, counsel, and retired partners.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#2263178)





Date: November 27th, 2006 11:45 PM
Author: MindTheGap76 (is semi-retired)

Ahh... YMSP1982... I wonder how he's doing these days.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=143852&forum_id=2#7082748)