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How much longer will/should AA be in place?
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:23 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water If at all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391444) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:27 AM Author: crawly carnelian area milk It will be around forever because those with the loudest voice in the debate (black people) have a vested interest in maintaining it.
How long should it last? Harder question. I guess I look at it as an all or nothing. If you support it, there's really no light at the end of the tunnel as to when it won't be needed. If you don't suport it, then it should end immediately. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:35 AM Author: talented private investor tanning salon I think it's funny that you say that Black people have the "loudest voice in the debate". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391545) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:35 AM Author: Embarrassed to the bone splenetic forum pozpig agreed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391556) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:36 AM Author: crawly carnelian area milk I said "loudest" not "largest", and that's the crucial distinction. The smaller group of people carries the huge stick in the debate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391562) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:37 AM Author: talented private investor tanning salon OK sorry I misread you. But it doesn't really change my opinion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391579) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:38 AM Author: crawly carnelian area milk All you said was that it was "funny". Care to elaborate on your opinion? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391589) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:39 AM Author: talented private investor tanning salon I really think Black people have little influence on AA policies. Sure, they can complain, but few are in a position of power to accomplish anything substantial. AA would not flourish without the support of Whites. End of story.
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:42 AM Author: crawly carnelian area milk Yes, but when half of "the whites" are basically whoring for support from the blacks and make a guilty conscience a fundemental aspect of their personal politics, then African Americans carry a lot of influence. And in a culture where a charge of racism, no matter how baseless, can be career suicide or mean severe harm to a business, then those with the power to level that charge have a big stick too. That was kind of my point.
But obviously, if all white people suddenly unified and said "AA is ending NOW", then it would be over. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:07 AM Author: talented private investor tanning salon Fair enough. I guess it's up to Whites then to unify and make this an issue. Those of them who want to see it abolished, of course. They could do it. And progress is being made towards the end of AA. Look at the Bakke case/the U Cal system. Even the Michigan case struck down the school's current AA policy and forced them to devise a new, less race-based one. The more protest that is raised, the faster AA will deteriorate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391897) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:33 AM Author: bateful resort brethren Subject: well affirmative action will be around for a long time...i think that it should be maintained as of now, but i reserve the right to reverse my opinion at any time
Alcoholics Annonymous on the other hand should be banned asap....it is ridiculous, almost more ridiculous than the consideration of alcholism as a disease |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:36 AM Author: Embarrassed to the bone splenetic forum pozpig awww, why against alcoholics anonymous? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391566) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:39 AM Author: bateful resort brethren are you serious? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391601) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:41 AM Author: Embarrassed to the bone splenetic forum pozpig no, i thought that was funny.
edit: not that im against alc.anon... or for it, for that matter. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:40 AM Author: clear twisted factory reset button affirmative action i know in grutter v. bollinger, o'connor in the opinion states that it's been 25 yrs. since Bakke that they are now looking at the Michigan case and hopefully 25 yrs. from Grutter the case may be revisited and AA, as a temporary measure, will no longe rbe necessary (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391607) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:44 AM Author: Maroon meetinghouse AA does nothing to imporve the lsat of the average black applicant. that being the case, it will still be necessary. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391641) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:48 AM Author: clear twisted factory reset button affirmative action o'connor didn't say anything about AA improving the lsat of the average black applicant....any moron from timbuk2 could figure that out so get off the soapbox already...the way she put it, AA is a temporary measure basically buying time until a better structure for urms to get into law school is in place (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391687) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:12 AM Author: Maroon meetinghouse the point is, you fuckwit, that a "better structure" does not exist, nor is there one on the horizon. as AA does not address the underlying problem (read: low index numbers of minority applicants) what the fuck makes you think the situation will be any different? if the situation is not different, what makes you think AA will be abolished? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391954) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:15 AM Author: clear twisted factory reset button affirmative action i didn't say anything about agreeing...it will still be around 25 yrs. from now and that's fine with me, my kids can benefit...btw, i knew what your point was but nobody really cares about dumping money into something that will change the current situation (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391981) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:19 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water So do you find it constitutional? Or do you support it since it provides you and your family with benefits? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392026) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:21 AM Author: Maroon meetinghouse does it matter? it exists because it has to. questioning its constitutionality is irrelevant after the sc has ok'd it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392070) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:25 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water This is one of the dumbest things youve ever said. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392111) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:11 PM Author: Maroon meetinghouse you clearly haven't been paying attention. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392701) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:33 PM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water No you clearly havent. How many times does a court need to reverse itself for you to realize that interpretations of the Constitution arent set in stone? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#393040) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 2:25 PM Author: Maroon meetinghouse i was referring to that being the dumbest thing i have ever said. thanks. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#394736) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:24 AM Author: clear twisted factory reset button affirmative action i'm not in law school yet but we read the case in one of the classes i took this semester and at two mock law classes (admit days)...i would say that the constitutionality of AA is a stretch, much the same way that some of the civil rights cases held under the commerce clause were a stretch...i don't need AA (172 lsat) but i will admit that i'm sure my race when combined with my lsat score helped me greatly in the admissions process...if my family can benefit in the future that would be great but my kids aren't going to need it...and yes i would prefer to see some type of alternative but it's probably not going to happen because money is not being invested into programs such as early education programs, etc. etc. etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392097) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:28 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Cool. When we discussed this stuff in Con Law, people too often substitued their policy preferences for constitutional analysis, thats why I asked. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392146) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:36 AM Author: clear twisted factory reset button affirmative action i love con law although half the time it seems like a toss up...i was so amused when this girl in my undergrad con law class was so adamant that the civil rights cases should not fall under the commerce clause and the prof (a u.t. law prof) drilled her about the "cause" and how could she be so insensitive...i felt the same way about these cases because some of them were a streeetch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392235) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:42 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Yeah, if youre looking for hard and fast rules, con law is the last place youre gonna find it. The way the cases are analyzed are pretty much conjured up by the juctices themselves (tiers of scrutiny, balancing tests, etc.). I personally found it to be the most enjoyable class of the first year though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392309) |
Date: May 6th, 2004 10:43 AM Author: Maroon meetinghouse it should exist until targeted minorities stop underperforming on standardized tests.
without AA, blacks and hispanics simply would not be competitive in admissions on a significant scale. we would have very few blacks/hispanics attending top schools. and by very few, i mean almost none. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:46 AM Author: Disrespectful boyish theatre And why should I care whether or not there are minorities at my school? If they don't meet the school's standards, they shouldn't get in! I don't think my education will be "enhanced" because I have a lot of URMs there. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391667) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:49 AM Author: clear twisted factory reset button affirmative action um, i think he's being sarcastic...geez, i'm a urm and even I could figure that out, dumbass! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391697) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:50 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Are you sure about that? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391709) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:50 AM Author: Disrespectful boyish theatre What's a URM?
Under Represented Male? |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:52 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Minority. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391735) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:06 AM Author: Disrespectful boyish theatre I was jk.
JK JK JK LOL! LOL JK! BRB, g2g...LOL! JK! |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:08 AM Author: Embarrassed to the bone splenetic forum pozpig lol funny guy |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:11 AM Author: Disrespectful boyish theatre Thanks Elle...I think you're a HAWT GIRL!
LIKE OMG! YOU ARE SO HOT!
Edit: OH wait...You're not ELLE! EWWWWW!
Re-Edit: Are you? |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:12 AM Author: Maroon meetinghouse i was not being sarcastic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391960) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:50 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Well the Supreme Court thinks that "diversity" is a legitimate educational goal that can be pursued by universities. SO convince them otherwise.
EDIT - Also, for one of the most hilarious responses to diversity as a legitimate justification for discrimination, see Scalia's dissent in Grutter. This is just part of it, and has the single most hilarious line Ive ever read in an opinion ("plays well with others").
The "educational benefit" that the University of Michigan seeks to achieve by racial discrimination consists, according to the Court, of " 'cross-racial understanding,'" and " 'better prepar[ation of] students for an increasingly diverse workforce and society,' " ante, all of which is necessary not only for work, but also for good "citizenship,". This is not, of course, an "educational benefit" on which students will be graded on their Law School transcript (Works and Plays Well with Others: B+) or tested by the bar examiners (Q: Describe in 500 words or less your cross-racial understanding). For it is a lesson of life rather than law--essentially the same lesson taught to (or rather learned by, for it cannot be "taught" in the usual sense) people three feet shorter and twenty years younger than the full-grown adults at the University of Michigan Law School, in institutions ranging from Boy Scout troops to public-school kindergartens. If properly considered an "educational benefit" at all, it is surely not one that is either uniquely relevant to law school or uniquely "teachable" in a formal educational setting. And therefore: If it is appropriate for the University of Michigan Law School to use racial discrimination for the purpose of putting together a "critical mass" that will convey generic lessons in socialization and good citizenship, surely it is no less appropriate--indeed, particularly appropriate--for the civil service system of the State of Michigan to do so. There, also, those exposed to "critical masses" of certain races will presumably become better Americans, better Michiganders, better civil servants. And surely private employers cannot be criticized--indeed, should be praised--if they also "teach" good citizenship to their adult employees through a patriotic, all-American system of racial discrimination in hiring. The nonminority individuals who are deprived of a legal education, a civil service job, or any job at all by reason of their skin color will surely understand. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:56 AM Author: clear twisted factory reset button affirmative action but they weren't talking about the end result of this as taking place in the classroom (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391774) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:58 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Im sorry, can you elaborate? I dont get what you mean exactly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391802) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:02 AM Author: clear twisted factory reset button affirmative action read the case, it's in o'connor's opinion, there is talk about diversity but those against AA usually mistake it for meaning that urms provide diversity to the classroom and that's it and thus we don't need it...this is not the conclusion that the majority drew in their opinion...i'm not going to expound about the case, it's readily available to read and i don't really like getting into these stupid debates because they're pointless (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391843) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:06 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water I know what O'Connor said in her opinion. I meant I didnt understand exactly what your sentence above was trying to say, and didnt want to jump to a conclusion.
I dont know why you are so hostile, I was just trying to understand what you were saying, but whatever, if you dont want to talk about it, thats cool. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:07 AM Author: clear twisted factory reset button affirmative action if you know what o'connor said in the opinion, then my post would need no explanation, that's all, not trying to be hostile (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391904) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:16 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Like I said I dont think your sentence was clear. I assume youre referring to Oconnor citing the long term benefits that diversity in the classroom confers upon the students once they graduate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391988) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:04 AM Author: spectacular azn If I didn't know better, I'd almost think he's being sarcastic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391871) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:06 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Hes consistently a dickhead in his dissents. I generally disagree with him, but I find him funny as hell. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391890) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:19 AM Author: spectacular azn I agree with him here, although sometimes he does go too far (eg. Lawrence v. Texas).
You're right, he is consistently hilarious. I think he'd be the most interesting justice to clerk for because of his vocal opinions. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:20 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Yeah he went off the deep end in Lawrence. THE GAYS ARE COMING, THE GAYS ARE COMING! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392052) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:15 AM Author: Maroon meetinghouse scalia is a bigot homophobe. his thoughts on AA are as predictable as they are irrelevant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391980) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:17 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water So is you claiming that hes a bigot and a homophobe. Respond to the substance of his dissent. Not saying Im agreeing with him, but what you said is irrelevant. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391998) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:20 AM Author: Maroon meetinghouse please. that's a tired-ass slippery-slope argument. "oh no, where will it end? oh no, the sky is falling!"
you are missing the point -- there is no substance to his dissent. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:24 AM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Why shoudl the potential benefits of diversity only be confined to the educational sphere? Why not to other areas?
And I dont think that hes really trying to make the slipper slope arg the basis of his dissent. Hes pointing out that this is a problem of Michigans own making, and youre still discriminating for a "soft" factor like diversity. Not to mention the problems with "critical mass".
Christ youre hostile today. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:10 PM Author: Maroon meetinghouse we have to draw the line somewhere. this is where we choose to do it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392694) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:32 PM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Fine, but youre ignoring the other aspects of the argument.
I dont agree with him, but you flipping out and claiming he has no argument is stupid. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 2:25 PM Author: Maroon meetinghouse chill the fuck out bitchmade, i don't have time to debate shit, i have a crim exam due at 4:30. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#394750) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 2:31 PM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Christ youre a douche. How the fuck would I know you have an exam due at 430? Youre a strange cat, Ill tell you that much. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#394903) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:39 AM Author: Tantric Voyeur Yeah, he only had precedent and logic on his side. Pretty weak opinion. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392265) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:10 AM Author: Maroon meetinghouse it is more of a public policy argument. lack of access to top schools = lack of opportunity for URMs to compete for prestige positions in all industries = allegations of racist white america. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391929) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:46 AM Author: crawly carnelian area milk so AA is a results based policy? I always though supporters of it claimed it was a principled based policy centered on 'fairness' of opportunity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391668) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:13 AM Author: Maroon meetinghouse that is total bullshit. there is nothing "fair" about racial discrimination. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391965) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:37 PM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Do you not understand that some other individual is harmed on the other side when someone who is less qualified takes their place because of AA? You can say that the public policy benefits, diversity benefits, etc outweight this consideration, but people are in fact harmed by AA on the other side. Its just that in this case, other circumstances and events of the past which created this society give it a constitutional OK. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#393086) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 2:27 PM Author: Maroon meetinghouse of course i understand that people are "harmed" on the other side. the point is that we are making a value judgment as a society that the limited racial discrimination that is AA is necessary to cultivate the sort of culture we claim to be.
christ you're stupid. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 2:34 PM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water Maybe if anything you posted had any sort of clarity or insight, what you actually understand or think would be clear. But instead, you post half baked shit that any third grader could dismiss. Either post coherently on threads like these, or shut the fuck up and stick to threads about getting blowjobs from trannies. Or better yet, shut the fuck up altogether. I see now why people start threads for the sole purposes of bashing your TTT douchebag ass.
I know this helps. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 10:54 AM Author: Light doctorate senate banned immediately (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#391752) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:02 AM Author: spectacular azn It should be banned in 24 years, 1 month. Apparently that's when it will suddenly become unconstitutional.
Thanks, S.D.O'C.! |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:53 AM Author: misunderstood kitchen and racism will cease to exist! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392471) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:11 AM Author: bronze multi-colored idiot university keep talking--i have a paper due on this tonight
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:18 AM Author: clear twisted factory reset button affirmative action lol! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392010) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:24 AM Author: bronze multi-colored idiot university i need three more pages. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392094) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:20 AM Author: Citrine dingle berry It will go on forever, because it pays for the liberal power structure to keep minorities down and feeling like victims.
AA helps by creating a sense of entitlemet without equal merit.
Democrats don't want black people to have as much money, or to do as well in school as white people. Because if they did, they would stop being democrats. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:21 AM Author: pearl gas station tattoo with AA, negroes have no incentive to perform well in school or on standardized tests, as they know that they will receive boosts in admissions. therefore, negroes will continue to woefully underperform, and guilty white liberals will continue to insist that AA is necessary to remediate some historical discrimination bullshit, even though other groups such as jews and asians have been able to overcome such discrimination through perseverance and hard work. thus, AA will be around forever. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392068) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:35 AM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha Until a better system is in place.
HTH |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:40 AM Author: bateful resort brethren Subject: so kinda like how democracy is the worst type of government except for all the other types (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392280) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:41 AM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha Kinda.
I was surprised to see how much of a boost AA gives URM's, however I supporrt AA and probably even more so now. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:43 AM Author: Citrine dingle berry why more so now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392324) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:45 AM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha Because URM numbers are below the medians, URMs clearly need the help. Eg. URM in @ Chicago w/ 3.2 157. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392345) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:50 AM Author: Citrine dingle berry you dont think its better to try and get them up to the medians, instead of apologizing to them for their inability to compete on their own accord? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392430) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:54 AM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha Propose a cost effective solution. Ill say this anything you DO propose will end up costing couple billion. You think the government (and a conservative on at that) is willing to fork out that kinda dough? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392485) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:55 AM Author: misunderstood kitchen It costs nothing to only allow them (and everyone) into schools that they are qualified for. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392505) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:57 AM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha No comment (see circular debating ahead). I will say this I definitely see value in having ethnic diversity in elite schools. Of course you are entitled to your opinion.
Good Day |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:52 AM Author: misunderstood kitchen What totally ridiculous reasoning. Unless you were being sarcastic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392451) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:55 AM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha Propose a better system. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392496) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:55 AM Author: misunderstood kitchen See my post above. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392507) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:44 AM Author: bateful resort brethren Subject: i personally think that if you are gonna invoke AA you had better do it pretty cautiously....i know that i went to a prestigious HS where veryone went to top colleges and everyone was pissed that all these minorities who were richer and better of than most of the students could get in anywhere they wanted despite sub-great numbers (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392340) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:46 AM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha Thatis an argument I want to leave alone. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392360) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:48 AM Author: bateful resort brethren Subject: why i have no problem with minority students who demonstrate the hardships that are equated with stereotypical minrities gettin a major boost from AA, but come on. Is a black kid who is a milionaire and living in the suburbs reall worse off and in need of AA than some poor white trash in the city? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392395) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:58 AM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha I see circular reasoning ahead. This will go nowhere. Let's agree to disagree and call it a day. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392554) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:00 PM Author: bateful resort brethren done and done, though only because this is a message board, if we were in real life i would continue and be an ureasonable asshole until girls or beer or pot was around (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392569) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:01 PM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha hahaha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392588) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:54 AM Author: spectacular azn Subject: More Scalia hilarity From the oral arguments for Grutter v. Bollinger:
QUESTION: Is two percent a critical mass, Ms. Mahoney? MS. MAHONEY: I don't think so, Your Honor. QUESTION: Okay. Four percent? MS. MAHONEY: No, Your Honor, what -- QUESTION: You have to pick some number, don't you? MS. MAHONEY: Well, actually what -- QUESTION: Like eight, is eight percent? MS. MAHONEY: Now, Your Honor. QUESTION: Now, does it stop being a quota because it's somewhere between 8 and 12, but it is a quota if it's 10? I don't understand that reasoning. Once you use the term critical mass and -- you're -- you're into quota land? MS. MAHONEY: Your Honor, what a quota is under this Court's cases is a fixed number. And there is no fixed number here. The testimony was that it depends on the characteristics of the applicant pool. QUESTION: As long as you say between 8 and 12, you're okay? Is that it? If you said 10 it's bad you but between 8 and 12 it's okay, because it's not a fixed number? Is that -- that's what you think the Constitution is? MS. MAHONEY: No, Your Honor, if it was a fixed range that said that it will be a minimum of 8 percent, come hell or high water, no matter what the qualifications of these applicants look like, no matter what it is that the majority applicants could contribute to the benefits of diversity, then certainly that would be a quota, but that is not what occurred here. And in fact the testimony was undisputed, that this was not intended to be a fixed goal. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:56 AM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha Scalia is a TTT.
WBA you decided on Penn correct? |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:57 AM Author: spectacular azn Scalia is awesome.
Pretty much set on Penn, yes. Are you starting next year? |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:59 AM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha No (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392564) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:00 PM Author: spectacular azn Still in college? Good luck on the LSAT. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392579) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:02 PM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha No out in the world.
Took Feb LSAT (to anyone who would ask I will not give out my numbers) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:04 PM Author: spectacular azn Ok, cool. So you're applying in the fall? Where are you looking? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392638) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:08 PM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha I think I may be around Penn and Michigan (I like Penn much which is why I asked). Columbia and NYU and Chicago as long shots.
*I think it is kinda weird that Chicago is harder than Penn to get into when Penn has the same LSAT median, and a higher GPA median. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:20 PM Author: spectacular azn Chicago is more selective. Penn is basically pushing its LSAT median as high as it can go right now, while Chicago could push it up another point or so if they really wanted to. There's a large difference in their 25%ile LSATs (164 to 167). Chicago just doesn't take non-URMs with mid-160s LSATs, while Penn takes enough to fill up about 25% of its class.
Chicago is a better school, and gets a ton of respect amongst the lawyers I've spoken to. That said, when you're talking about differences in the top14 schools, you're really splitting hairs for the most part. They all place wonderfully.
Good luck with applications. One bit of advice for Michigan - apply very very early. If you really want to go there and your numbers are close to the medians, apply ED. It makes a difference for Mich.
Edit: If you ever do want to share your numbers, this board can give a lot of really solid advice. I think we, collectively, know more than just about any admissions counsellor in the country. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:24 PM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha interesting appraisal.
I did hear a rumor that Penn is realistically shooting for a 170 median so....
But yeh Chicago is awesome. Faculty (#2), Reputation (clearly top 5). |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:35 PM Author: spectacular azn I wonder if Penn could really get there. I wouldn't be surprised to see Columbia hit 171 this year, but I just don't see Penn breaking 170. They're not giving out enough merit money to pull significant numbers of people from other schools, and they're not lowering their GPA range enough to let in a lot of split-numbers applicants.
The consensus I've gotten from speaking to a lot of attorneys is that Penn's reputation is solidly top-10 (which probably encompasses all the top14 schools), but Chicago's is top-5. Even though their medians are pretty much the same as Penn's, Chicago's got the edge in faculty, selectivity, a huge edge in academic placement (6% of active alumni are professors!), and years and years of reputation. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
However, if I were Chicago, I'd be concerned about falling behind CLS/NYU in the numbers game. Those high LSAT applicants are heavily recruited by the schools, and for some reason, Chicago's been consistently losing them to the NY schools. I think it might be time for them to re-think their stubborn reliance on old-fashioned teaching models. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:38 PM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha Well the thing is I see a move towards the East Coast, for dominance. I think it is possible that Colu, NYU, Penn could see a huge increase in their dominance in years to come. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#393105) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:41 PM Author: spectacular azn Perhaps when compared to Michigan or Northwestern, but I think Chicago's got the name, faculty, and academic placement success to keep it right where it is for the forseeable future.
For selfish reasons, I certainly wouldn't mind Penn increasing its stature. :) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:42 PM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha Personally I think Penn is on the rise. I could see them being Top 6 in time. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#393148) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:41 PM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha "Chicago's been consistently losing them to the NY schools. "
This should definitely be a concern for them. I do think they are a bit stuck in their ways, considering they are a conservative school, with decades of tradition. Time will tell, but for now they are in my book clearly top 5 (ahead of NYU, and no I like NYU a lot as well so I am NOT bashing them). |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:43 PM Author: spectacular azn Personally, I put Chicago a shade ahead of both NYU and Columbia. They're a titan for academic placement and clerkships. They've got seven SCOTUS clerks this coming term - remarkable for a school that size. That's nearly one every 27 students, which is practically Yale-esque. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#393170) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:45 PM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha I would say 2 shades. Placement they are all equal, but in other aspects(clerkships, teaching) they rule.
I put Chicago 2 shades of CLS and NYU |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:47 PM Author: spectacular azn Yep, Chicago's firm placement is dead-even with CLS/NYU, and it's got that huge clerkship/teaching advantage. All else equal, why not go there? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#393214) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:49 PM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha Some people like NYC. However if you are being a name whore, yes I would go w/ Chicago for sure. Equally well respected in all legal areaas (academic, practical, and otherwise), not so for CLS and NYU. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#393237) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:59 PM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water bc Chicago students consistently are the least happy of the top 10. People there are generally miserable. There was a site that had a survey of the top 10 by the students themselves that I once saw, you may want to Google for it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#393389) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:35 PM Author: histrionic fiercely-loyal institution alpha BTW Penn's 25% is 165 (UsNews is either old info or inaccurate). Chicago's 25% is a 167. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#393055) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:37 PM Author: spectacular azn Yeah, Penn reports a 165-171 range on their website. US News prints a 164-170 range. I don't know which is more accurate, but I tend to favor US News when in doubt.
Either way, Penn's 25%ile is well below Chicago's, which indicates lesser selectivity. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:57 AM Author: Citrine dingle berry i think she did her best in defending an undefendable position. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392533) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:01 PM Author: spectacular azn I agree. I'm surprised that Michigan got that verdict. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392591) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:04 PM Author: Citrine dingle berry It takes more than being right to defeat the tide victim politics. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392634) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 11:58 AM Author: Tantric Voyeur I don't get it. Seems like she's jerking the court around. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#392546) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:03 PM Author: spectacular azn Gotta hand it to Scalia for drawing that out. I don't think you'd see anyone else on the Court force the issue as much as Scalia did.
That's why I admire him. He's always opinionated and vocal, and I respect that, even if I disagree with what he's saying at times. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:38 PM Author: swollen turquoise library boiling water yeah he crushed her. The part in the oral argument about Michigan being an elite school and creating this problem themselves is also good. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#393109) |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 12:45 PM Author: spectacular azn Haha, yeah. "Super-duper law school."
I love Scalia. |
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Date: May 6th, 2004 2:37 PM Author: bronze multi-colored idiot university Some have argued that, in light of Bollinger, total state bans on affirmative action are unconstitutional. Thoughts? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=23592&forum_id=2#395013) |