Cali Biglaw $145k Raise Vigil Thread
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: February 11th, 2006 5:40 PM Author: Concupiscible area
So when you're a second-year associate out on the West Coast, how is it going to feel working with a first-year in your firm's NY office and knowing he makes more than you in salary, *and* more in bonus?
This is a thread to post random things (from Greedy and elsewhere) possibly relevant to LA/SF/SV moving to $145k.
Current situation:
Most Cali firms have raised first years by $10k, second years by $5k or $10k, and other years by $5k. K&E, LW and GDC are the only non-NY firms to announce a $10k raise across the board. All of these firms have have followed NY market in matching the $20k raise for their NY offices. Quinn is the only non-NY firm to match NY market in all its offices.
For comparison:
CA: 135 / 145 / 155 / 170 / 190
NY: 145 / 155 / 170 / 190 / 210
List of LA offices and their current salary levels: http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=357285&mc=131&forum_id=2#5048741
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5059108) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 6:58 PM Author: Dun judgmental elastic band hall
i always look at "pay" as a function of the ability to staff (defined as being able to hire qualified inputs). i'm not sure what peripheral reasons to raise salary would be sufficient to compel me to do so, were i running a firm.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5059977)
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Date: February 11th, 2006 6:55 PM Author: Concupiscible area
125k became standard when tech picked up and people realized there were markets outside NY that were pretty important. It seems billing rates don't differ in LA and NY that much anymore, and while the PPP of LA firms doesn't exactly match Cravath and S&C, they're still doing better than the likes of Dewey, Fried Frank, and Shearman.
Also like I mentioned below, bonuses at NY firms have been higher anyway and I think people had less of a problem with that.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5059945) |
Date: February 11th, 2006 5:46 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Might as well start with this very spirited message cross-posted on Greedy LA and themonkeyscribe:
Los Angeles Firms MUST Match NYC, or Mass Exodus Will Ensue
Mass Exodus, or Mass Malaise...I'm not sure.
Let's Recap:
(1) There have been no raises since 1999.
(2) A $10K raise for 1st years and $5K for subsequent years does not even match the rate of inflation on $125,000 over 7 years.
(3) Profits Per Partner (PPP) has risen steadily in all major L.A. firms since 1999, and rather dramatically in the last year alone: Quinn - $1.9m (+1% over 2004); Gibson - $1.64m (+8%); Latham - $1.602m (+14%); Munger - ~$1.08m (+4%); Loeb - $926k (+30%); Sheppard - $785k (+15%); Allen Matkins - $675k (+16%).
(4) Housing prices have doubled (if not TRIPLED) in Los Angeles since 1999.
(5) Law school tuitions have rose by an average of 28% nationwide, with some state schools (like Berkeley, UCLA and UC-Hastings) having seen their tuition fees DOUBLE since 1999.
(6) The Southern California housing market is almost as cramped and expensive as the NYC market, and the market prices in San Fran market are almost identical in the prices to NYC.
(7) With this new NYC raise ($145,000) in place, *FIRST* year associates in the L.A. offices of NY-based firms earn $5,000 more than *SECOND* year associates at Latham, Gibson Dunn, Irell, Quinn Emmanuel and O'Melveny.
(Cool Second year associates in Los Angeles offices will now earn $25,000 LESS than second year associates in NYC offices. $25,000 Less!!! Sure, NYC attorneys are known to work long hours, but if they didn't stroll in the office at 10AM everyday and take 2-hour lunches, they'd leave the office at a more reasonable hour like the rest of us (more efficient) lawyers who bill 2000 hours/year and still have a life outside of work.
(9) Almost all big NYC firms or branch offices ALREADY GET A COST OF LIVING ADJUSTMENT OF $10k-$15K, AND FOR YEARS HAVE HAD HIGHER BONUSES THAT IN OTHER MARKETS TO ACCOUNT FOR HOW EXPENSIVE NYC IS!!! GIVING THEM ANOTHER $20k/YEAR TO ALL CLASSES JUST ADDS INSULT TO INJURY TO ALL THE HARDWORKING ASSOCIATES IN MAJOR MARKETS LIKE L.A., CHICAGO AND WASHINGTON, DC WHO ARE NOT COMPENSATED WITH SUCH MONETARY PERKS AS "COST OF LIVING ADJUSTMENTS". It used to be the case that NYC lawyers were paid more because firms in NYC required more work, but plenty of firms in 2006 are billing 2000+ hours/year and are NOT located in NYC. These lawyers should not be penalized because they chose to work in a different market.
Last (and least), associates in LA face just as great of a risk of a terrorist attack as their counterparts in NY: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/09/bush.terror/index.html. It's called "hazard pay" people...we should be compensated for that risk!
THE LOS ANGELES FIRMS MUST GIVE EQUAL PAY FOR EQUAL WORK...OR THEY WILL FIND IT DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO LURE TOP RECRUITS IN THE NEAR FUTURE, THEY WILL FACE MASSIVE RETENTION PROBLEMS, AND THEY WILL SEE THEIR ASSOCIATE SATISFACTION RANKINGS CRASH DRAMATICALLY. LOS ANGELES LAWYERS SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DEMAND THESE RAISES FROM THEIR EMPLOYERS EITHER...THE PARTNERS SHOULD KNOW BETTER!
http://themonkeyscribe.com/msgboards/viewtopic.php?t=170
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5059144) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 5:50 PM Author: supple range athletic conference
in your other posts you have mentioned that S&C and Simpson have moved to 145 in LA, do you have any confirmation? memo or otherwise?
it seems to me that the justification that they traditionally have paid the same in every office does not hold muster anymore
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5059178) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 6:18 PM Author: supple range athletic conference
you think the firms like LW, will go back and bump to 145 in LA?
edited LA to be LW
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5059549) |
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Date: February 11th, 2006 5:51 PM Author: supple range athletic conference
actually NY assoc would have no reason to complain, it would just guarantee that the current structure stays the same - with LA and other offices getting crap bonuses and NYC getting at least 10-20 more in bonuses
it is good for NYC assoc for the rest of the country to go to 145 so as to ensure the bonuses do not fall and total actual compensation increases
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5059193) |
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Date: February 12th, 2006 4:47 PM Author: internet-worthy doctorate state
"GIVING THEM ANOTHER $20k/YEAR TO ALL CLASSES JUST ADDS INSULT TO INJURY TO ALL THE HARDWORKING ASSOCIATES IN MAJOR MARKETS LIKE L.A., CHICAGO AND WASHINGTON, DC WHO ARE NOT COMPENSATED WITH SUCH MONETARY PERKS AS 'COST OF LIVING ADJUSTMENTS'."
What genius wrote this? Assuming this is a biglaw asso., does this person not understand that the term "adjustment" means that pay could be moved up OR DOWN?
I hope this person gets his or her "perk."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5067125) |
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Date: February 12th, 2006 5:34 PM Author: puce giraffe plaza
I understood the "quotation marks" in his post to mean that NYC's extra compensation is *disguised* as a "cost-of-living adjustment".
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5067583)
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Date: February 12th, 2006 3:27 PM Author: Concupiscible area
"Some have said that law students have more incentive to go to NY based firms in SF/SV, but I actually think laterals do.
If you are a third year at GDC, with your new base pay of $155k, maybe you'll end up with a total comp of say 185k, but only if you are a star.
If you lateral to STB/S&C/anyone else who matched the 20k across the board raise, you'd have a base pay of $170k, and while we don't know what the bonuses are going to be for them, I bet it will certainly be more than $15k for third years.
And don't forget that bonus is lockstep at these places, so you don't have to be the superstar to get it."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002wuk
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5066364) |
Date: February 12th, 2006 3:40 PM Author: Henna alcoholic weed whacker
I'm thinking CA firms may boost their NYC branch offices, but will hold the $135K line at home. (With maybe a few tweaks for seniors.)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5066482) |
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Date: February 12th, 2006 7:16 PM Author: crimson charismatic whorehouse
Several firms. Look at monkeyscribe, other threads on here, infirmation, etc.
Logically, if some of these firms are paying 145k, all firms that want to recruit the best students by paying market wage will soon raise to 145k. All this worrying is a bit ridiculous. It just might take more than a couple weeks.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5068370) |
Date: February 12th, 2006 5:52 PM Author: copper electric furnace set
Does anyone have an idea which LA firms will raise their summer pay? Up to 2600? 2800?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5067734) |
Date: February 13th, 2006 12:08 PM Author: Concupiscible area
According to Greedy NY, Orrick and Heller have not only gone along with the $135k raises, they haven't even matched Latham and Kirkland in at least raising NY offices to $145k. http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002wxS
This vigil may take a lot longer than I was hoping for.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5074148) |
Date: February 14th, 2006 11:05 AM Author: Concupiscible area
"A quick survey of salaries in NY, Chicago, Boston, DC and LA/SF shows that LA/SF market salaries are generally $5k - $30 below the other major markets:
Year:___NY____Bos/Chi/DC__LA/SF_
2005:_145,000___135,000___135,000
2004:_155,000___145,000___140,000
2003:_170,000___160,000___155,000
2002:_190,000___180,000___170,000
2001:_210,000___200,000___190,000
2000:_225,000___215,000___200,000
1999:_240,000___230,000___210,000
1998:_255,000___245,000___215,000
When are the California firms going to step up?"
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002x1j
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5083805) |
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Date: February 14th, 2006 11:15 AM Author: Henna alcoholic weed whacker
"When are the California firms going to step up?"
They already raised salaries. What more do people want? ;)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5083884) |
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Date: May 8th, 2006 10:58 AM Author: sticky old irish cottage Subject: omelveny - projects
Strange but Omelveny lists a project on its web site of
$115.00 for current firm news. Isnt this peculiar? If it is wrong, which it clearly is, why doesnt the firm correct it?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5741306) |
Date: February 15th, 2006 12:40 AM Author: Concupiscible area
"When are the California firms going to step up?"
"Honestly, they will step up only when the 2006 recruiting season has people turning down their offers for WSGR/GDC/etc for DPW, S&C, and STB's SV offices (for example, just to consider the SF/SV market).
Last season, I know from my contact at STB-PA, was horrible and this year's summer class is small. These 2L's were choosing the CA-based firms over the top NYC firms' SF/SV offices.
With the pay difference, there will be a good incentive to go to STB/DPW/S&C. If the 2L's still avoid those firms, then the CA-based firms will have no reason to match."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002x35
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5090912) |
Date: February 15th, 2006 12:42 AM Author: Concupiscible area
"the salary gap between the NY firms and CA offices of other major firms is significant. I expect some associates will opt to join the California office of a NY firm to get the weather and the much better salary. If you do not see yourself staying at a big firm in the long run, this has a lot of appeal. However, per the earlier post on this board, the chances of making partner out of the California office of some NY firms is nil--no matter how good you think you are. To the extent you think you have the stuff (and desire) to make partner, you might consider accepting the the lower salary in the short run. You will more than make it up if you actually make partner. Another wrinkle in the salary debate is whether the latest NY raises will end up being a complete wash come bonus time. At least a couple memos I've seen indicate that this is not a "raise" but a shift in the distribution of total compensation from year-end bonus to salary. In that case, the comp gap has not changed, but is just much more visible."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002x2v
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5090935)
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Date: February 15th, 2006 12:58 AM Author: Concupiscible area
LeBoeuf raises to $145k, including their LA and SF offices: http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002x5D
But with 12 lawyers in LA and 17 in SF, we might want to keep expectations low.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5091085) |
Date: February 15th, 2006 1:00 AM Author: insecure trump supporter
i believe Weil bumped their Silicon Valley office to $145k
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5091115) |
Date: February 15th, 2006 1:07 AM Author: Concupiscible area
Greedy NY has Proskauer raising to $145k, but that memo is specifically addressed to NY associates: http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002x5f
I think Proskauer LA has a pretty substantial presence and probably competes with the likes of Irell and OMM. Not a good sign if they aren't announcing the raise with NY.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5091179) |
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Date: February 15th, 2006 1:27 AM Author: federal fishy patrolman
They're not a big deal at all. They're about 60 lawyers and it's Proskauer, with their ridiculous "offer to join a specific practice group only, perhaps not the one of your choice" deal. I'll never understand why someone would ever summer there unless they're splitting. Chances of needing to reinterview are way too high.
The people I had my screening interview with were really nice (guy and girl, two person interview). Had both recently come from Skadden LA. If I remember right, it was my first interview during OCI.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5091350) |
Date: February 15th, 2006 4:33 AM Author: Floppy bespoke public bath
Morgan Lewis is now at 135k in Philly. So now Philly = SF/SV/LA!?
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1139837720736
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5092022) |
Date: February 15th, 2006 12:14 PM Author: Concupiscible area
"This could all go haywire if 145 becomes the new 135 in DC.
Think about it--the NY firms are going to 145 in all offices. They have a much bigger presence in DC than they do in LA. Thus, NY firms raising to 145 in DC is much more likely to move the DC market up to 145 than the fact that 20-lawyer offices in LA like STB and S&C are going up to 145 is likely to move the LA market to 145. I'm not sure if that made sense, but you know what I mean.
Considering LA has a considerably higher COL than DC (I think), that situation could enrage LA GAs..."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002x60
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5093261) |
Date: February 15th, 2006 12:58 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Greedy LA says Proskauer LA matches Kirkland with a $10k raise for all classes:
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002x89
News on Skadden seems to be filtering out now.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5093686) |
Date: February 15th, 2006 1:26 PM Author: Garnet irradiated karate
it is true that all the other class years are getting screwed, but Cali first years get a 10k bar bonus, which NYC first years don't get, so for first years it is a wash
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5093960) |
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Date: February 15th, 2006 1:29 PM Author: Talented ungodly university
Except that most of the LA firms don't give the prorated bonus at the end of the first sevreal months, while most of the NYC firms do.
So it's not a wash.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5093982) |
Date: February 16th, 2006 12:58 PM Author: Concupiscible area
"This could all go haywire if 145 becomes the new 135 in DC.
Think about it--the NY firms are going to 145 in all offices. They have a much bigger presence in DC than they do in LA. Thus, NY firms raising to 145 in DC is much more likely to move the DC market up to 145 than the fact that 20-lawyer offices in LA like STB and S&C are going up to 145 is likely to move the LA market to 145. I'm not sure if that made sense, but you know what I mean.
Considering LA has a considerably higher COL than DC (I think), that situation could enrage LA GAs..."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002x60
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5103366) |
Date: February 16th, 2006 12:59 PM Author: Jade station affirmative action
I want it now! *Kicks* *throws tantrum*
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5103370) |
Date: February 16th, 2006 1:07 PM Author: Talented ungodly university
I said this in another thread, but Proskauer LA sent emails to their summers that the office was raising to $135, and that summer salaries would be raised accordingily (presumably to $2600).
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5103402) |
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Date: February 16th, 2006 1:10 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Good catch, I had updated the salary raise thread but forgot to add it here.
I love all my threads, but once in a while one slips through the cracks.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5103415) |
Date: February 16th, 2006 7:19 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Greedy LA confirms Skadden LA/SF/SV is on the same $145k salary schedule as NY: http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002xCZ
These are pretty substantial offices. Might see some movement, here's hoping anyway...
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5106892) |
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Date: February 16th, 2006 7:50 PM Author: Concupiscible area
True. But even at $140k, they've only paid summers $2400/wk, so it'll be interesting to see if they raise to $2800 now.
In terms of recruiting, I think Skadden LA is pretty on par with GDC/OMM/LW in a way that STB and S&C aren't, so this could be a big deal. If Skadden goes to $2800, that's going to be smack in the face for those Gibson summers who turned down Skadden offers.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5107154) |
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Date: February 18th, 2006 11:24 AM Author: copper electric furnace set
I think Skadden LA is a very good office that is on par with the big three.
Their corporate department is already as strong as anyone's. And their ligitation department is on the rise.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5121364) |
Date: February 16th, 2006 7:59 PM Author: Cyan low-t famous landscape painting
this is gonna be a long-ass vigil. the market will remain unsettled until the end of the year when bonuses are announced and we'll see if 145K base actually means higher overall compensation.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5107236) |
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Date: February 16th, 2006 8:05 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Yeah, I was thinking I still have another year until I graduate, and maybe that's how long it'll take. But just in case, I'm trying to space out my posts so I can bump this semi-regularly.
It'd be funny if there was some hiring partner at Latham or MoFo watching this thread and seeing if he could outlast me, but I think I'm giving myself way too much credit there.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5107281) |
Date: February 17th, 2006 11:46 AM Author: Concupiscible area
Pillsbury and Thelen join the $135k raises: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1140084315494
Interesting given this Greedy post from a couple days ago:
"Pillsbury is in serious cost-cutting mode. It recently offered buyout packages to nonbilling professionals and has been reported in the local legal press as not having ruled out layoffs -- of either nonbilling or billing professionals. In that scenario, in what economic world is raising associates' salaries "the right thing"? That's like telling Ford or GM that the "right thing" to do in the face of economic challenges would be to raise employee salaries. Even if that sort of mismanagement did not rise to the level of a securities or corporate law violation, the stockholders would not tolerate it. Like it or not, in law firms, the partners are the stockholders."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002x5Y
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5112116) |
Date: February 18th, 2006 1:38 AM Author: Ebony nursing home roast beef
I wonder if we will see two tiers of pay in LA. My guess is that we will. The days of all biglaw firms (minus Skadden) paying the same first-year amount are over. Elite NY and LA firms will pay 145; the rest will pay 135.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5119833) |
Date: February 21st, 2006 10:04 AM Author: Concupiscible area
Holiday's over, let's hope news of Quinn's raise starts spreading. Here's one reaction to MoFo's NY-only $145k raise:
"Here's the fundamental problem, as I see it. MoFo is trying to become more like a NY-based firm, without having to pony up the NY compensation. Examples: last year's raising of the minimum billable hour requirements, the abandonment of the "MoFo" logo on merchandise because the NY partners though it sounded too Californian, and firm chairman Keith Wetmore's move from SF to the NY office. Historically (i.e., pre-2000 ["Viva Bob Gunderson!!"]), MoFo associates have tolerated the existence of differential pay in different offices, with NY being paid a bit more. But the new salary and bonus structure in NY is so far and away higher than any other office, that it is making MoFo associates in other offices angry. The firm has never, to my knowledge, allowed one office's associates to be paid so much higher than everybody else. MoFo markets itself as "one firm," where deals and cases can be reliably staffed across offices. When more junior associates in NY are making substantially more money than their more senior counterparts in other offices -- including their supervising senior associates -- that is a sure a recipe for discontent and sinking morale, especially given the big increases in partnership profits and firm revenue. Those profits and that revenue are largely billed on the backs of the mid and senior-level associates. Sure, the chosen few might make partner some day, but that is cold comfort given the statistical odds against it."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002xLs
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5146509) |
Date: February 25th, 2006 1:21 AM Author: Concupiscible area
Quinn's raise finally hits the legal news media: http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1140775518275
"Law firm consultant Edward Poll said it's too soon to tell whether other Los Angeles-based firms will follow suit.
"It's an interesting game that is being played," he said. "I think it could go either way, but my guess is that big players like Gibson, [Dunn & Crutcher], O'Melveny [& Myers], and Latham [& Watkins] will draw a line in the sand and say, 'We're not going any farther.'"
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5180266) |
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Date: February 25th, 2006 12:58 PM Author: curious rusted useless brakes wrinkle
Paul Hastings certainly doesn't come off well.
"I think Quinn is a very different kind of firm than a large global firm. . . . One firm's decision, particularly one with a specialized practice niche, is not terribly relevant."
Translation: "We're cheap. Quinn isn't."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5181857) |
Date: February 25th, 2006 1:14 PM Author: Concupiscible area
It'll be interesting if Quinn wants to set itself off from the other firms, like Wachtell does in NY. They've had the highest PPP in LA (maybe all of non-NY, really) for two years now but haven't quite gotten the reputation to match. A salary premium could really be Quinn's way of getting the prestige that everybody knows they want.
If you look at the PPP numbers (http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=353408&mc=87&forum_id=2#4998384) you'll see Quinn at $1.9m, and Munger at not even $1.1m. Irell hasn't reported but if it's like last year, it's somewhere in between at $1.6m. Certainly there's room for Quinn to pay a premium over Munger, if not the others.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5181931) |
Date: February 27th, 2006 1:55 AM Author: federal fishy patrolman
A new week, a new reason to hope . . .
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5197574) |
Date: February 27th, 2006 2:05 PM Author: galvanic shrine prole
These raises must come at some cost right? Or am i just being a pessimist?
that extra 10k is either coming out of a bonus or it is being worked for through escalating min billable requirements. It's not like its an extra 10k for free. It all comes at a cost, correct?
It'll be very interesting to see what kind of bonuses are given out at the firms in LA paying 145 base, and to see, at the end of the day, how much the 10k raise really translates into in terms of total compensation
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5200159) |
Date: March 1st, 2006 4:13 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Nice post on Greedy LA:
"MESSAGE TO LATHAM, GDC and OMM:
Through the years, each of your firms have made general promises to your associates to "pay competitive salaries", etc... Well it's time to start doing just that. There are now 276 associates in LA at 7 firms who are on significantly higher pay scales then yours - this is not being competitive. While this strategy may fatten your partner's wallets in the short term, it is self-destructive in the long term: it is hurting associate morale (which results in lower billing and attrition), the perceived prestige of your firms, and come August, it will most certainly hurt recruiting. How can you claim to be a Top Tier firm and pay your associates 2nd Tier salaries? Unfortunately, it is only a matter of time before this practice works a self-fulfilling prophecy and you do indeed become 2nd tier firms in LA....
Now that Skadden and Quinn have matched (both with sizable offices in LA), there is no compelling justification for not matching - clearly Skadden and Quinn have reviewed the "cost of living" data that you are clinging to, and have determined that it's either not that significant, or NY associates can receive a market adjustment come bonus time (as has been the practice for many years). While we are pleased that there has been an initial raise, it simply has not kept pace with inflation, the cost of living in LA, and now what the martket has determined is the going rate for a Big Law associates. We welcome you to reconsider your positions on salary."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002xib
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5218216) |
Date: March 2nd, 2006 12:06 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Always nice to see a nod to this board:
"CA branch offices of NY firms have become a much more attractive option since then (perhaps more so in SF/SV). If not corrected soon, I'd expect the huge disparity in pay ($15k+ for 2nd years - $40k+ for 8th years) will significantly impact law school recruiting. These boards seem to be pretty complacent, but law school boards are all over the cheapness of CA firms."
http://www.infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002xkT
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5225452) |
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Date: March 2nd, 2006 12:15 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Nice. I think I alluded above that the headhunters are already taking advantage of this in their recruiting efforts, so the firms should definitely be listening.
"Salaries were also a hot topic at an alumni event for Ivy League schools held in Hollywood this week." -- I've never heard of these things. Will I be expected to schmooze with Cornell JDs?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5225548) |
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Date: March 2nd, 2006 12:16 PM Author: federal fishy patrolman
Good to see Quinn's raise get at least some press. I'm surprised it hasn't been written about more.
Overall, though, I think the outlook is rather poor.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5225551) |
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Date: March 2nd, 2006 12:36 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Actually, I think the outlook is getting better, maybe not in time for this summer but at least for by the time we graduate.
Incidentally, my firm hasn't yet announced summer salaries but they are imposing a hard 13-week limit on all summers. I think 13 weeks is pretty standard for summer programs, but I've been told the NY firms are pretty flexible about people staying longer.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5225688) |
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Date: March 2nd, 2006 3:34 PM Author: federal fishy patrolman
I suppose you're right about the long term prospects getting better.
My firm hasn't announced summer salaries either, and I don't think there's a hard week limit (or at least it hasn't been announced yet). I think, though, that 13 weeks is plenty. I think if you're at CLS and are doing the 1 week professional responsibility course at the end of the summer and want to work from the Monday after finals to the Friday before Prof Resp starts you're looking at 15 weeks. While the money is good, I would not want to work wire to wire for the whole summer. 13 sounds like the max anyone should want to do. One week buffers are always nice to have, especially when working on the other side of the country.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5227215) |
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Date: March 2nd, 2006 3:45 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Based on what people say about summer programs, I'm going to be pretty disappointed if I'm working wire to wire for any part of the summer. But you'd know better than me. My non-firm 1L summer was definitely a cushy gig.
But yeah, at least now I get back in time to do 3L OCI with NY branch offices, if it comes to that. ;)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5227329) |
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Date: March 2nd, 2006 3:51 PM Author: puce giraffe plaza
12 weeks is standard
most firms allow between 9-13, sometimes 14 for students from schools that have uncharacteristically long summer breaks
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5227398) |
Date: March 6th, 2006 2:35 PM Author: Concupiscible area
This guy isn't me, but he might as well be (well, maybe he got more offers than I did):
"Seems like most of you so-called "greedy" associates are pretty complacent with the lousy raises you just got... I can assure you that most of the students that I know who will be summering in your LA offices don't feel the same way. I for one turned down an offer at a NY based firm for an offer with one of the Big 3 - boy do I feel like duped. If salaries don't equalize by August, many of your best SA's (top of their class at the best law schools) will be turning down their full-time offers for better money at Skadden, Quinn, etc...
I'm sure you'll have no problem filling our spots with bottom feeders who would take any big law job, but we know that's not who you're looking for.
So be prepared for a huge recruiting problem next Fall..."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002xuH
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5262884) |
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Date: March 6th, 2006 2:35 PM Author: Concupiscible area
And the flip side...
"While I agree that paying NY associates differently than OC/L.A./San Fran is B.S., I disagree with your analysis. There are a lot more "top school" candidates than there are first year associate positions. Though in the coming years a great candidate will take the 145k over the 135k for the same work (e.g., first year work at big law is first year work at big law whether it is 145k or 135k a year), I do not think GDC...etc will be hurting for associates. In the end, the pool of kids looking for work is bigger than the pool of big law associate positions."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002xuN
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5262886) |
Date: March 6th, 2006 3:58 PM Author: Beady-eyed Sound Barrier Indian Lodge
In addition to paying 145k in their LA offices, don't NY-based firms also dish out bigger bonuses? I've been told that STB, LeBoeuf,Dewey, etc use the same bonus structure as their NY office. This all adds up to substantially more cash.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5263783)
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Date: March 7th, 2006 11:57 AM Author: Concupiscible area
And on that topic...
"very seldom does someone stay at one firm from first-year associate to partner. So when NY-based firms are paying 145k AND offering lockstep NY-sized bonuses to their LA associates, it seems the financial incentives might be too strong to pass up."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002xux
"And don't forget that the cumulative difference in pay over 5-7 years (including lockstep bonus vs. median L.A. bonus) approaches 75K-100K, not chump change. That, and the fact that you can lateral to any of the L.A. based firms as a non-equity partner (perhaps except the Big 3, where you are not going to make partner anyway) is a big draw for Skadden / Sullivan / Simpson / etc. "
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002xv0
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5270976) |
Date: March 7th, 2006 12:48 PM Author: Jade station affirmative action
I heard a rumor that Latham's Chicago office sent out an email saying they will pay 2600 a week, if true I imagine LA will too which really leave GDC lagging behing L and OMM.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5271308) |
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Date: March 7th, 2006 12:52 PM Author: Concupiscible area
I should ask my Latham NY classmates if they've heard anything, but if OMM is going to go 2800 in NY and 2600 elsewhere, it makes sense that Latham will play the same game.
If Quinn pays $2800 in LA this summer, maybe next year's 2Ls will see some changes.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5271333) |
Date: March 7th, 2006 2:06 PM Author: gold spectacular principal's office
Quinn to pay summers only $2600.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5271853) |
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Date: March 7th, 2006 8:18 PM Author: gold spectacular principal's office
I have no idea what the NYC pay is, but it would be pretty strange if they paid $2800, when the pay is the same for 1st years in both cities.
The source is legit, I assure you.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5274889) |
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Date: March 8th, 2006 4:54 PM Author: Duck-like therapy casino
Can you explain how you know so much about Quinn and why you're so interested in them when you don't work there?
It's not strange that SAs are getting paid $2,600. Quinn, above all things, is savvy. What would be the benefit of paying $2,800 when the current summer class is locked in? Quinn can just raise summer salaries to $2,800 in September if it feels that will help recruiting.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5283096) |
Date: March 7th, 2006 8:14 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Lot of good stuff on Greedy LA all of a sudden:
"After firms sink $50k per law student into their recruiting costs this summer only to lose a chunk of them to other firms that pay more, there will be no question that the failure to match has had a significant impact. The point is that any student who can leave will leave, which will typically be the very best of each class.
The point that there are more students than jobs is just silly. Sure, someone who barely made the top third at Loyola would love a job at GDC, but that's not who GDC is looking for.
Even worse, good luck recruiting judicial clerks this spring (which is right now, by the way). I think Quinn will be very successful landing them in the next month or two."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002xwW
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5274847) |
Date: March 7th, 2006 8:18 PM Author: Concupiscible area
"Perhaps LA recruiting from CA law schools won't be affected, but law students with easy access to NY firms will think long and hard about turning down NY money for LA. All major NY firms now pay substantially more than the big 3, even those NY firms with less prestige. LA firms will still fill their recruiting classes, but their ability to attract Ivy grads will be impacted."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002xyY
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5274894) |
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Date: March 7th, 2006 8:19 PM Author: Concupiscible area
"I have to agree. I'm a 3L and what I've seen is that those poor souls that chose going to NY last summer have now been redeemed. For people like me, where NY or LA was a close call, we feel especially duped. Even the people going to Philly are laughing - two of my buddies just learned that they will be making as much in Philly as I will in LA. Unless, of course, I get a raise."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002xyj
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5274900) |
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Date: March 8th, 2006 12:50 PM Author: Hairless heaven internal respiration
"their ability to attract Ivy grads will be impacted"
You mean they'll have to settle for hiring the top students from Stanford, NYU, Chicago, Michigan, and Virginia? The horror! They might as well just close up shop now.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5281082) |
Date: March 8th, 2006 11:10 AM Author: Concupiscible area
"I'm a class of '03 litigator at a Big 3 member and I just got my first cold call from someone asking if I wanted to switch to "another prominent LA firm that's willing to pay you 170,000 per year." Obviously, that universe of firms is fairly small but clearly those firms that are matching NY salaries are already trying to handpick potential laterals.
Quite honestly, the ONLY thing stopping me from interviewing is the fact that I lateraled here in October and I don't want a 4 month stint at another firm on my resume. I worked over 2 years at my first firm (thus earning me the "First Lateral is Free" Pass. Past that, I feel I'm pushing it, but if my peers are getting similar calls, I'm sure they're considering."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002xys
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5280305) |
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Date: March 8th, 2006 3:05 PM Author: Hairless heaven internal respiration
Wow, a $25K bump. Prestigious.
I doubt this will have much effect on California firms, though. Salaries being equal, the CoL difference isn't going to tempt many Cali residents to move to freaking Texas.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5282218) |
Date: March 13th, 2006 2:47 PM Author: Topaz idiot
Orrick raises to $145K, according to NYLawyer.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5327009) |
Date: March 20th, 2006 11:29 AM Author: federal fishy patrolman
Any news? I'm guessing the Big 3 and I/M are still being LeBOEUFPWN3D.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5380745) |
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Date: March 20th, 2006 11:41 AM Author: Concupiscible area
Yeah, I come back from Spring Break just to find they're paying more in Texas than Cali now, go figure.
You can keep saying LeBOEUFPWN3D, but we know it's because it hurts less than QUINNPWN3D. ;)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5380810) |
Date: March 20th, 2006 2:23 PM Author: Misunderstood School Cafeteria Private Investor Subject: Latham Raises $5K for Mid-Levels and Seniors
Close buddy of mine working at Latham just called me. He said that during a global videoconference this morning, Latham bumped salaries for all 2nd-through-8th year domestic (non-NY) associates. First-year salary will remain at $135,000.
What was the raise for upper-classmen, you ask?
Five thousand dollars.
Time to bash this TTT firm!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5381912) |
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Date: March 21st, 2006 12:34 AM Author: Concupiscible area
Thanks, edited the OP to reflect this info. Here's what I said about it on the other thread:
Well, this is both good and bad.
The bad news is that it's still behind Quinn and the NY firms. And first years in LA/SF are still making less than first years in Texas, of all places.
The good news is that (aside from Quinn) they're the first firm to match Kirkland in making the raises $10k for all classes. So at a minimum, we should see firms like Gibson, OMM, MoFo, Sidley, etc. match this. The other good news is that this means firms are still reconsidering their raises, so there is still hope that another big firm will up both Latham and Kirkland and match Quinn and the NY firms.
Even if we don't see $145k in the next few months, I think this move still suggests that non-NY firms are realizing that Gibson's $5k raises were way too low and they have to match the NY firms eventually -- so we 2Ls may well see $145k by the time we graduate (or the first year after).
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5386703) |
Date: March 21st, 2006 12:23 AM Author: galvanic shrine prole
Has anyone heard about summer pay yet?
I think Latham went up? 2600 maybe? can anyone confirm this?
I assume GDC is paying 2400 firm wide since thats what they're paying in NY?
Is quinn gonna pay $2800, to go along with the 145k base pay? have they said anything?
Anyone from OMM, MTO, or any of the other big LA firms heard anything?
Irell still hasn't said anyting as far as I know.
Are the NY satellites(Skadden, Sullivan, whoever else) paying $2800 in LA?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5386615) |
Date: March 23rd, 2006 7:23 PM Author: crystalline property depressive
I know several NorCal IP firms are at 135k+10k signing bonus.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5409778) |
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Date: March 28th, 2006 8:51 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Ah, thanks. I was wondering about White & Case, and I think we can assume the LA office is going the same route.
The Greedy post says that White & Case is in growth mode for the Palo Alto office, but they also closed their SF office recently. I'm not sure if they and firms like Dewey are the best candidates for "stepping up to the plate."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5450822) |
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Date: March 28th, 2006 9:08 PM Author: Topaz idiot
Didn't Dewey pull out of NorCal altogether? That's certainly a less ambiguous sign than growing one office and closing another 30 miles away. I wonder what the hell is going on.
Regardless, one more firm bumping salaries for whatever reason can only help.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5450897) |
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Date: March 28th, 2006 9:11 PM Author: Concupiscible area
The post on this board was about a bunch of partners leaving. On Dewey's website, looks like the office is still there -- but with just one partner, one counsel, and eight associates.
Yeah, White & Case's move might not mean anything. I think they and Shearman were the only NY firms with both SF and SV offices.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5450915) |
Date: March 30th, 2006 3:04 AM Author: canary maniacal library jap
Susman Godfrey went to $145K in L.A.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5463368) |
Date: April 10th, 2006 5:29 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Christenen's $135k raise ($5k for other years) is in the media: http://www.nylawyer.com/display.php/file=/news/06/04/041006t
Besides describing Christensen as "scandal-rocked," also dings them for being late to the raises.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5557081) |
Date: April 18th, 2006 10:39 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Gibson has moved to $2800/$2600 for their summers, and maybe they'll update their website next? http://www.google.com/search?q=+site%3Awww.gibsondunn.com+%22one+firm%22
A classmate who knew a little about East Asian politics joked, "One firm, two systems."
nalpdirectory.com is updated (or downgraded, for Firefox users) with all the new info, and it looks like Quinn is the lone beacon for the $145k salary. We'll see what happens when fall recruiting starts...
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5607556) |
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Date: April 19th, 2006 1:17 AM Author: federal fishy patrolman
I hate the new NALP format. More difficult to read than the old one.
Unfortunately, only a few CA firms give any hint as to their average hours worked or billed.
Quinn: Average billables for 2004 and 2005 listed at 2100. Obviously not exact.
Irell: In 2004, average of 2346 hours worked, 2056 hours billed. In 2005, average of 2347 hours worked, 1992 hours billed.
Fenwick. 2004: 1860. 2005: 1742.
Loeb & Loeb. 2004: 1827. 2005: 1778.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5608600)
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Date: May 2nd, 2006 1:02 PM Author: Concupiscible area
Wilson Sonsini joins the (unfortunate) trend:
"Just like Mofo and everyone else with a NYC branch office, WSGR just upped the base for New York associates by $10-20K for junior-to-midlevels, and $20-$40K for senior associates. This is on top of the prior round of raises, so they are making a good bit more than us now. Kind of frustrating. I know the you have to match to compete for talent, but NYC isn't any different than the Bay area on expenses or COL, and the work (at least for WSGR) is not more sophisticated on the east coast."
http://infirmation.com/bboard/clubs-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0030Af
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5700303) |
Date: May 10th, 2006 2:58 PM Author: multi-colored pozpig
Like I tell my boyfriend, consider a career in a state with a relevant legal market. They tend to pay better.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#5758261) |
Date: January 23rd, 2007 8:35 PM Author: Talented ungodly university
160 vigil?
Do I hear 155?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=358058&forum_id=2#7475053) |
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