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Cliffs for why the alt right is obsessed with the so called "Holodomor"?
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Date: October 17th, 2017 8:39 PM Author: costumed trailer park Were ethnic Kazakhs not destroyed by the same famine? Did people not also die all across the Soviet Union?
Why interpret this as a way to genocide Ukrainians |
Date: October 17th, 2017 8:41 PM Author: Odious chrome nursing home prerty relevant given that we’re just one or two elections away from a Soviet Shitlib government genociding all Southern and midwestern whites (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34466422) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:31 PM Author: Smoky state Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467258) |
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Date: October 18th, 2017 6:06 PM Author: stubborn vibrant background story (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34473663) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 8:47 PM Author: pale irradiated gaming laptop sweet tailpipe (Walter Duranty) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34466466) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 9:02 PM Author: costumed trailer park no seriously. his stupidity was denying that millions of people starved. i'm wondering why russia sympathizing alt right people claim that these awful policies were designed to kill Ukrainians (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34466562) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 9:24 PM Author: Indecent aqua crackhouse hominid lauren southern, richard spencer, robert conquest, stupid alt-righters
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:30 PM Author: pale irradiated gaming laptop sweet tailpipe Robert Conquest was 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467251) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 9:34 PM Author: naked bat-shit-crazy pervert temple "Russia sympathizing alt right people" Lol, what an analysis |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:19 PM Author: pale irradiated gaming laptop sweet tailpipe because they were designed to kill Ukrainians and this has been known for decades, nothing to do with the alt-right
why do you rail against this and want to make it about the alt-right? |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:24 PM Author: Vigorous low-t sanctuary roast beef cr. unsure what peterman is getting at here. even if the famine was naturally occurring the soviet policies requiring the ukies transfer farms to them and then export all their food. and the goal ostensibly was to break the will of the ukraonian people and stifle any ukrainian nationalost movement. at least thats my understanding. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467193) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:27 PM Author: costumed trailer park that's your understanding. but is it the scholarly understanding? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467221) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:29 PM Author: Vigorous low-t sanctuary roast beef well im sure there is good clean cut scholarly debate on this topic. i wasnt alive then and havent read any books about it. My knowledge on the matter is 100% derived from my wife and her Western Ukrainian family. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467242) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:32 PM Author: pale irradiated gaming laptop sweet tailpipe yes it is (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467269) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:39 PM Author: costumed trailer park alright. anything I can read online which gives evidence that it was a planned genocide? the reason I'm suspicious is that 1) it seems politicized by tendency of anti-Soviet historians (or anti-Semitic for the alt right) to turn incompetence and catastrophe into genocide 2) there was mass famine in places aside from Ukraine, so why call it a genocide there but not elsewhere (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467335) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:45 PM Author: Vigorous low-t sanctuary roast beef Or maybe Stalin was a piece of shit and killed a bunch of people. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467417) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:48 PM Author: costumed trailer park so he wasn't trying to exterminate the Ukrainians specifically? seriously I want 2 learn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467452) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:54 PM Author: pale irradiated gaming laptop sweet tailpipe https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Conquest
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Harvest_of_Sorrow |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 11:00 PM Author: costumed trailer park the book looks good but do you remember what lines of evidence were used to prove intentionality?
also
Alexander Nove, while generally praising the book, noted: "That the majority of those who died in the famine were Ukrainian peasants is not in dispute. But did they die because they were peasants, or because they were Ukrainians? As Conquest himself points out, the largest number of victims proportionately were in fact Kazakhs, and no one has attributed this to Stalin's anti-Kazakh views".[3]:508
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Date: October 17th, 2017 11:11 PM Author: pale irradiated gaming laptop sweet tailpipe you have to understand that Conquest was writing at a time when history departments were filled to the brim with Soviet sympathizers or actual communists who were aghast at Conquest writing plainly about horrors that they were trying to whitewash
but now a few decades later, now that we know a lot more and with greater certainty about what happened, everyone remembers Conquest and nobody has heard of Nove |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 11:21 PM Author: costumed trailer park i googled and Nove is a Jewish critic of the USSR: http://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/23/obituaries/alec-nove78-dies-british-economist-and-critic-of-soviets.html
but i will try to check out the Conquest book |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:52 PM Author: nubile shrine Thems is fighting words, bro. Stalin is still THE BOSS. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467504) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 8:55 PM Author: dun queen of the night (guy unfamiliar w Dekulakization) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34466524) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 9:08 PM Author: Indecent aqua crackhouse hominid yeah the ukrainians are uniquely obsessed with this sort of thing
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Date: October 17th, 2017 9:29 PM Author: naked bat-shit-crazy pervert temple Kikes do an actual Holocaust No fanfare, no media coverage |
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Date: October 18th, 2017 6:06 PM Author: cracking range (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34473666) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 9:29 PM Author: shimmering church building kitty Holodomor was basically ethnic cleansing of Ukrainians by jews. It's mentioned as a contrast to all the whining jews do re: holocaust (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34466756) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 9:33 PM Author: naked bat-shit-crazy pervert temple Also, monuments to it (and there are few), were recently destroyed by Jewish group (femen or another one) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34466790) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 9:35 PM Author: shimmering church building kitty here's a good book that talks about holodormor and other shit jews did https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0999136704/ (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34466805) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:13 PM Author: naked bat-shit-crazy pervert temple (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467100) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:15 PM Author: Vigorous low-t sanctuary roast beef Why is Holodomor attributed to the Jews? My wife is Ukrainian and just hates Russians. Should she hate me too? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467116) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:21 PM Author: pale irradiated gaming laptop sweet tailpipe it isn’t attributed to Jews (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467165) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:25 PM Author: Vigorous low-t sanctuary roast beef yeah i didnt think so but the posts ITT seemed to suggest otherwise. what is going on in here? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467205) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:27 PM Author: pale irradiated gaming laptop sweet tailpipe there are some people who believe that Stalinism was a big Jewish conspiracy, nutty but true (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467227) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:43 PM Author: Wine tattoo hunting ground The USSR was absolutely Jewish from its inception. Jews played a critical role in the communist revolution and had huge power in the early soviet bureaucracy. Solzhenitsyn documents their role well in "Two Hundred Years Together". (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467396) |
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Date: October 18th, 2017 2:35 PM Author: naked bat-shit-crazy pervert temple And even into Kruschev
They were the Revolution |
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Date: October 18th, 2017 6:09 PM Author: cracking range (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34473684) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:28 PM Author: carnelian newt I've never heard of this "Holodomor" before opening this thread, but people are saying it was the Jewish version of the Holocaust against the Ukrainians. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467233) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:31 PM Author: pale irradiated gaming laptop sweet tailpipe no, it was Stalin’s version of the Holocaust against the Ukrainians (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467264) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:32 PM Author: carnelian newt Ok, good to know. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467272) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:32 PM Author: Vigorous low-t sanctuary roast beef It was perpetrated by the Soviets. To the extent Soviets = Jews then yes the Jews genocided the Ukrainians. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467266) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:32 PM Author: pale irradiated gaming laptop sweet tailpipe Stalin was Georgian (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467274) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:33 PM Author: carnelian newt I don't consider Stalin to be Jewish. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467279) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:36 PM Author: Vigorous low-t sanctuary roast beef (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467311) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:41 PM Author: Cruel-hearted Beady-eyed Corner pretty much everyone except stalin was jewish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467362) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:44 PM Author: Indecent aqua crackhouse hominid so his wife should hate georgians and jews, but he needs to sit her down and fix her fucking head re the russians it seems
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:47 PM Author: Cruel-hearted Beady-eyed Corner tbf theres probably many other valid reasons to hate russians. but to hate them for this would be falling for the crafty jew trap. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467450) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:32 PM Author: nubile shrine Soviet wheat exports went from 15 million tons tons 1931 to 1.6 million in 1933. The Yankee lie that Stalin merely exported the wheat while people starved is Yankee disinformation. It was a bad harvest the same as the famine in 1898 and yes Soviet policies made things worse but it was not a genocide. Though it retrospect Stalin should have killed all the Hahols. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467267) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:33 PM Author: pale irradiated gaming laptop sweet tailpipe shut the fuck up for once (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467278) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:35 PM Author: nubile shrine I will go to my grave loving Stalin, bro. And you should too. He was a great man. Kulaks were enemies of the Soviets and fascists and no man should own a cow. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467302) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:37 PM Author: avocado pozpig antidepressant drug People on the alt-right, in general, care about more genocides than just the one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467321) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:41 PM Author: costumed trailer park so what would you say clears the bar for actual genocide? my list is pretty short and requires the intention of actual extermination, not just mass killings (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467366) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:42 PM Author: avocado pozpig antidepressant drug right, the intent of extermination. like the holodomor! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467385) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:43 PM Author: costumed trailer park and I've spent many poasts ITT asking what the evidence is for this, u nigger! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467399) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:46 PM Author: Indecent aqua crackhouse hominid other than a well documented set of policies designed to eliminate the ukrainian culture and a large part of its people?
i guess nothing
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:48 PM Author: nubile shrine LMAO. Stalin is the only reason Ukrainian as a language survived. He mandated its teaching in schools in Ukraine and prior to Stalin there was no formalized official alphabet or spellings for Ukrainian words. It was entirely a spoken language. Stalin ordered the first Ukrainian dictionaries ever assembled. Ukrainian as a modern written language was invented by Stalin. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467466) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:56 PM Author: Indecent aqua crackhouse hominid the guy was short, fat and brown. i bet he didnt wipe his ass without a jew pulling a string so his arm could move.
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:48 PM Author: avocado pozpig antidepressant drug ? I guess I'm inclined to listen to Stalin when he says he wants to kill the kulaks by depriving them of resources and has a policy to do so and then executes on that policy.
If you're worried about whether stealing food from Ukranians and then not letting them leave so that they starve to death is evidence that you want Ukranians to die, just know that yes, it is. |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:58 PM Author: costumed trailer park that standard would apply just as easily to other parts of the Soviet Union that experienced devastating repeated famines. or Mao's devastating efforts at industrialization as well. how this compares to the mass extermination efforts of the Holocaust or Rwandan genocide, I can't really see (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467571) |
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Date: October 18th, 2017 9:08 AM Author: avocado pozpig antidepressant drug Interesting. Were Stalin and Mao trying to kill all of their own people through starvation / industrialization? Because that's the only way "it would apply." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34469038) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:57 PM Author: Vigorous low-t sanctuary roast beef Has anyone here held himself out as a Holodomor scholar who has interviewed former soviet officials and residents of Kiev? People know general concepts they at some point deemed credible and committed to their bank of knowledge.
If you are genuinely curious, consider using the internet. |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 11:03 PM Author: costumed trailer park If someone were to ask me "Why do you consider the Holocaust or the Rwandan genocide to be an example of intentional mass extermination?" I know I would have an answer that goes beyond "lots of Jews/Tutsis died" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467604) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 11:10 PM Author: Vigorous low-t sanctuary roast beef can you see why with the holocaust for example its easy to point to a factory constructed for the purpose of killing jews as your evidence.
Or with Rwanda, the machetes that were distributed and anti tutsi propaganda. Also this occurred in the 90s and was covered in the news during our lifetimes.
You can see how a famine and starvation of people through economic policy is a bit different. The proof is going to be less tangible or shocking.
Im not saying this to be rude. Its really jusy an observation. You are displaying a certain level of autism IMO. |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 11:13 PM Author: costumed trailer park I don't see what this has to do with autism tbh. The Nazis had maps and marked them "Judenfrei." The Hutus literally wanted to kill all Tutsis.
On the other hand, you had a guy like Stalin who really did believe that dekulakization was part of a class war that would some day deliver prosperity. It's not like these famine creating policies were only present in Ukraine.
The only thing that seems autistic is you assuming that Stalin knew dekulakization was going to fail all along |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:39 PM Author: insane bright sound barrier i don't think it's that the alt-right is filled with concern for the plight of the ukrainians in particular, just that it's a counterpoint to all the nazi hysteria - part of the larger argument that the communists ultimately killed more people than the nazis did (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467337) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:46 PM Author: nubile shrine Killed is such a strong word....We liberated them from the oppression of the calorie, bro. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467435) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 10:59 PM Author: Vigorous low-t sanctuary roast beef Or that why do the arm flapping Jews act like they are so special because of the Holocaust? Same shit happened to other people too! Worse even! Fucking Armenians! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34467577) |
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Date: October 17th, 2017 11:18 PM Author: pale irradiated gaming laptop sweet tailpipe tbf I think it is totally consistent to understand the Holocaust as a supreme evil, while at the same time pointing out the immense evils committed by the communists in their various guises
nobody serious denies the Holocaust’s pure evil (incoming ...) but in our lifetimes we have had armies of hacks and ttt tier academics devoting themselves to whitewashing and explaining away communism’s evils |
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Date: October 18th, 2017 1:12 AM Author: supple burgundy center rigor why is itthe " supreme" evil? Were the Armenians any less dead than the Jews? Is having you wife and daughter raped in front of you by a Turk before getting shot a better fate than dying in a "gas chamber" ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34468382) |
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Date: October 18th, 2017 9:38 AM Author: Crusty deer antler ape Beyond the power of certain sentimental Spielberg movies, what reason does the average American have to consider the holocaust the supreme evil, instead of one among many? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34469181) |
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Date: October 18th, 2017 9:40 AM Author: maize bespoke fortuitous meteor foreskin the possibility that the US could stepped in earlier to stop it, but did not. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34469197) |
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Date: October 18th, 2017 2:43 PM Author: emerald stain He used "a" supreme evil, so I assume you and Rod are misinterpreting. There's no basis for arguing that it is the most evil event in world history. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34472033) |
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Date: October 18th, 2017 5:55 PM Author: glittery mauve market There's a basis to argue that it's the most evil, but it's not some foregone conclusion that it's the most evil. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34473606) |
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Date: October 18th, 2017 2:32 PM Author: costumed trailer park (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3767160&forum_id=2#34471909) |