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Trump tried to fire Mueller in June
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:20 PM Author: brindle razzle-dazzle gunner https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/us/politics/trump-mueller-special-counsel-russia.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=66419382&pgtype=Homepage
President Trump ordered the firing last June of Robert S. Mueller III, the special counsel overseeing the Russia investigation, according to four people told of the matter, but ultimately backed down after the White House counsel threatened to resign rather than carry out the directive.
The West Wing confrontation marks the first time Mr. Trump is known to have tried to fire the special counsel. Mr. Mueller learned about the episode in recent months as his investigators interviewed current and former senior White House officials in his inquiry into whether the president obstructed justice. |
Date: January 25th, 2018 8:25 PM Author: Amethyst frum prole home Why is Don McGahn such a bitch? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239054) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:29 PM Author: 180 stage Wasn't McGahn interviewed by Mueller about obstruction last year too? LOLLOLOLOL (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239098) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:33 PM Author: contagious cobalt menage quadroon Leakers should be shot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239134) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 1:00 PM Author: Rambunctious Swashbuckling Principal's Office Karate That's Trump. The biggest leaker is Trump. Too dumb to keep things confidential when speaking w his "buddies" by telephone at night. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35244746) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:33 PM Author: 180 stage Jun 16, 2017 08:07:55 AM I am being investigated for firing the FBI Director by the man who told me to fire the FBI Director! Witch Hunt [Twitter for iPhone]
Jun 15, 2017 06:57:57 AM You are witnessing the single greatest WITCH HUNT in American political history - led by some very bad and conflicted people! #MAGA [Twitter for iPhone] link
Jun 15, 2017 05:55:37 AM They made up a phony collusion with the Russians story, found zero proof, so now they go for obstruction of justice on the phony story. Nice [Twitter for iPhone] |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:37 PM Author: exhilarant french crackhouse patrolman Caged rat scurrying. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239175) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:56 PM Author: Motley death wish Last tweet is exactly what happened. You disagree? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239358) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:58 AM Author: Drab Library Libs? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243323) |
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Date: January 27th, 2018 11:56 AM Author: Lake Institution (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35252556) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:39 PM Author: submissive hall jew Deserves hanging for his Treasonous involvement in Iraq War.
He knew there was nothing as FBI Director re: WMD, he backed it anyway. |
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Date: January 27th, 2018 3:32 PM Author: very tactful step-uncle's house boltzmann This is a St Petersburg talking point, you Russians are weird (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35254291) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:43 PM Author: erotic tanning salon mexican Drudge sirens. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239216) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:47 PM Author: 180 stage Tucker Carlson: Why do Mexicans rape so much? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239255) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:45 PM Author: Razzmatazz bipolar partner So he wanted to fire Mueller internally to his own people but was talked out of it and nothing happened. All behind closed doors to his own staff. Is this obstruction of justice? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239234) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:52 PM Author: 180 stage "Actual obstruction is not needed as an element of proof to sustain a conviction. The defendant's endeavor to obstruct justice is sufficient. "Endeavor" has been defined by the courts as an effort to accomplish the purpose the statute was enacted to prevent. The courts have consistently held that "endeavor" constitutes a lesser threshold of purposeful activity than a criminal "attempt."
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Obstruction+of+Justice |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:56 PM Author: Razzmatazz bipolar partner but what endeavor? It was an internal office decision that Trump was talked out of. Nothing happened. No endeavor because presumably the actions of the White House are considered any "endeavor", and no actions were actually taken. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239355) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:01 PM Author: exhilarant french crackhouse patrolman Fair. He did not try to persuade anybody to fire anyone involved with the investigation or fire Comey then admit it was to get rid of his Russia problem.
And his giving an order to fire Mueller does nothing to show intent or support a pattern of behavior.
Nice work Charles. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:43 AM Author: Domesticated background story Well fuck MY ass. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242727) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:57 PM Author: Motley death wish This is an incredibly stupid reading of that clause. Do you even law, bro? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239372) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:58 PM Author: drunken plum reading party national security agency (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239382) |
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Date: January 27th, 2018 3:36 PM Author: very tactful step-uncle's house boltzmann Its clear that Trump wants to impede the investigation. but whether an obstruction case can be made is completely the wrong thing to focus on at this point. Why is he so shook is the question. It's because the money laundering experts on Trumps team are going to find out that the Russians own this compromised bitch (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35254318) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:55 PM Author: Appetizing learning disabled organic girlfriend Lmfao at libs
Is this what your fb friends are saying |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:56 PM Author: Razzmatazz bipolar partner my lib friends are going NUTS over this right now. Lots of "SEE!! HERE'S OBSTRUCTION!!!"
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:59 PM Author: contagious cobalt menage quadroon So a president's mere contemplation of exercising his executive authority is now obstruction of justice. LOL, fuck libs. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239392) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:01 PM Author: Razzmatazz bipolar partner well said. I'm borrowing this one. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239429) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:05 PM Author: 180 stage Discussing ways to obstruct is an intention to obstruct. Jesus christ people (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239452) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:16 PM Author: contagious cobalt menage quadroon Let's unpack this a bit, shall we. Mueller, Comey, and that entire faggot bunch work within or under the Department of Justice, an executive branch. Per the Constitution, Donald Trump (being the President), has complete authority on how the executive agencies carry out and execute the laws of the United States. This includes, appointing and terminating the heads of such agencies. The mere contemplation of firing an executive agency employee cannot be obstruction of justice. This is laughably stupid. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239563) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:19 PM Author: Razzmatazz bipolar partner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239587) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:22 PM Author: drunken plum reading party national security agency Maybe zhe will respond and dig in more? *fingers crossed* (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239614) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:30 PM Author: Thriller senate elastic band (Dick Nixon) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239673) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:39 PM Author: Excitant maniacal center black woman Is this supposed to be an insult? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239742) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:35 PM Author: 180 stage DOJ is just like Dept of Interior!!! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239714) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:37 PM Author: exciting sexy national (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239724) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:37 PM Author: Charismatic ticket booth (Richard Nixon) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239727) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:46 PM Author: Insanely Creepy Ocher Ladyboy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239794) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 10:37 PM Author: swollen vibrant macaca resort One problem faggot. The story says he actually ordered it. Not contemplated. Please find a new way to move the goalposts and try again. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35240237) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:34 AM Author: zombie-like coral alpha 180. I ordered a burrito once at a Mexican restaurant but before the waiter walked away, changed my mind to say actually I want a taco. In doing this, I completely understood I would be charged for the burrito (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242658) |
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Date: May 29th, 2019 1:41 PM Author: amber soul-stirring church building cuckoldry This guy was such a fucking shitty poster (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#38307802) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 10:40 PM Author: concupiscible chocolate pozpig ( Nixon acolyte) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35240264) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:36 AM Author: bull headed incel (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242678) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:45 AM Author: Domesticated background story (Nixon, after he became President) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242745) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:46 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab Russia-gate! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242752) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 12:55 PM Author: hyperactive startling volcanic crater Then there is the fact that when he said the Oath, he switched out God for Trump! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35244638) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 1:19 PM Author: maize bbw (George III) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35244950) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:06 PM Author: frisky office hominid (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239475) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:20 AM Author: hyperactive startling volcanic crater I've heard a lot of people say that if he ordered Comey to drop the Flynn/Russia investigation, then it probably would be OOJ, but merely telling him he "hopes he could let it go" is not. So here, he reportedly ordered McGahn to fire Mueller. Nothing came of either, but if ordering Comey would have been OOJ, the question is whether ordering McGahn is. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242554) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:30 AM Author: Irradiated station dysfunction hope you can let it go is premised on the notion that it's Comey's decision. how that makes out a case for obstruction is beyond me.
funny because now we know of the intense politics behind the scenes by people who didn't want Hillary indicted when she clearly broke the law. none of that is considered interference or obstruction, of course. because it was for the benefit of the left. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 12:50 PM Author: pungent boiling water Saying it alone wouldn't make the case for obstruction, I agree.
Saying that he hopes he lets it go, and then when Comey doesn't let it go firing him, is what supposedly would make for obstruction. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 12:51 PM Author: Jade Stock Car Native (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35244592) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 12:52 PM Author: hyperactive startling volcanic crater What if he had just told Comey to drop it, i.e. an order? Is that OOJ? Does the firing of Comey change your answer?
Then assume he ordered McGahn to fire Mueller. Is that OOJ? What if he had fired Mueller?
Those are the issues here. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:27 AM Author: Irradiated station dysfunction Dems reeling right now and need a counter-offensive. This is all they have. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242614) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:39 AM Author: Razzmatazz bipolar partner You know they’ve been sitting on this one for a while. With the Nunes memo and crooked FBI agent stories growing, they needed a bombshell to deflect (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242692) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:44 AM Author: Irradiated station dysfunction i seem to recall quite a few veiled references to it when it all happened. so they knew then. they are trying to regain momentum. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242738) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:57 AM Author: Insane clear rigpig stead What’s hilarious to think about is that Mueller has definitely known this since June, and he had all their transition emails from the GSA for months, used them in his questioning of a huge swath of the WH and the Trump legal team didn’t figure out what was going on until a few weeks ago. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242812) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 7:51 PM Author: maize bbw cr the Trump people are fucked (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35248470) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:41 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242708) |
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Date: May 29th, 2019 1:38 PM Author: White personal credit line set No. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#38307782) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:54 PM Author: Appetizing learning disabled organic girlfriend Mueller belongs behind bars. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239331) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 8:58 PM Author: Startled range really tough guy He's a very angry and stupid man (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239375) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:05 PM Author: exhilarant french crackhouse patrolman Why was Trump interviewing such a scoundrel? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239451) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:21 PM Author: idiotic bearded whorehouse azn Can’t wait for xo trumptards to change the goalposts and say obstruction of justice by a potus is no big deal. I bet it happens soon. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239607) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:30 AM Author: zombie-like coral alpha Yeah he definitely obstructed Justice. Crazy how much Justice was obstructed after trump did this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242632) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:41 AM Author: Irradiated station dysfunction Yep, Trump sure did shut down this whole Russian collusion thing. It's gone. Not a trace left remaining. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242709) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:48 AM Author: Domesticated background story It's over, it's done, stop talking about it.
As far as he's concerned, it's a dead story! |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:55 AM Author: idiotic bearded whorehouse azn You should’ve named yourself emperor of the west and ruled from Rome. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243292) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:27 PM Author: Dashing charcoal sex offender meetinghouse Wasn’t this already reported months ago?
Edit: 9/30/17: WH feared McGahn would resign over probe. Is that any different.... Also does McGahn just threaten resignation if anyone looks at him funny? Just do it already |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:30 PM Author: Charismatic ticket booth Welp, this is bad (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239677) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:38 PM Author: Excitant maniacal center black woman according to four people told of the matter,
according to four people told of the matter,
according to four people told of the matter,
according to four people told of the matter,
according to four people told of the matter,
according to four people told of the matter,
according to four people told of the matter, |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:46 PM Author: Insanely Creepy Ocher Ladyboy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239797) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 1:57 PM Author: Drab Library Hilarious the make it 4 people to seem more credible (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35245315) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 2:05 PM Author: exhilarant french crackhouse patrolman Ask Sean Hannity! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35245406) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:43 PM Author: dull spectacular pocket flask masturbator Lmao the timing of this anonymous source leak is so predictable (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239768) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 9:47 PM Author: Excitant maniacal center black woman (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35239799) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 10:38 PM Author: swollen vibrant macaca resort Some would say the timing of Nunes creative writing final was conveniently ahead of the story. Odd case. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35240246) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 10:40 PM Author: concupiscible chocolate pozpig (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35240267) |
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Date: January 25th, 2018 10:40 PM Author: flickering trust fund (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35240269) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:23 AM Author: fiercely-loyal business firm Remember, this entire witch hunt was meant to create process crimes. That was the goal from the outset. Not saying there have been any as of yet, but the goal was to manufacture this shit.
Let's hope this tactic is used on every sitting president from now on. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:28 AM Author: exciting sexy national agree with first paragraph. def not the second though (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242621) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:29 AM Author: fiercely-loyal business firm i was being facetious. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242625) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:50 AM Author: Insane clear rigpig stead Makes sense to me to have the POTUS be required to know the basics of what the law prohibits when he assumes control of the executive branch. Boohoo process crimes it’s so unfair that Trump is being exposed as an ignorant incompetent waaah waaah. Can you trumpkins seriously claim with a straight face that you wouldn’t be howling for indictments of everyone who voted for Hillary if she won and the cover up was focused on the Clinton Foundation instead of campaign contacts with Russia? You guys do that anyway, of course, but you’d clearly be even louder and more obnoxious. How about we all agree that having shady crooks as POTUS is a bad thing, we stop nominating people like that to be POTUS, and if a shady crook gets into office we scrutinize him or her very thoroughly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242780) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:56 AM Author: exciting sexy national but nothing that has surfaced even comes close to concluding that trump is a 'crook' (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242809) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:02 AM Author: Insane clear rigpig stead He’s pretty clearly been laundering Russian money through his real estate for years. There’s a reason why the bulk of the mueller team are financial crimes investigators and it isn’t Manafort. And while that doesn’t prove anything about collusion it’s a perfectly good reason to watch him like a hawk now that he’s got more power than anyone else in the history of the species and is blatantly in over his head on the basics of how the government operates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242847) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:02 AM Author: exciting sexy national jfc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242852) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:12 AM Author: Insane clear rigpig stead Just do have 63 different Russian passports/addresses buy up $100 M worth of your Florida real estate, bro. Just do have Russian mobsters live in your signature high rise while being pursued by the feds. NBD guys at my high school.
https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:31 AM Author: Razzmatazz bipolar partner even if every Russian who bought condos at Trump towers was a legit criminal, so what? I am not aware of any laws making it illegal to sell condos to Russians, or anywhere else for that matter. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243055) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:23 AM Author: buck-toothed chapel hissy fit Just have a dozen Saudis buy up $200 million of your... oh wait (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243559) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:43 AM Author: Insane clear rigpig stead 100% agree. Shit I'll even go along for the uranium mines. Let's all agree to avoid shady candidates in the future. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243794) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:24 AM Author: gay internet-worthy school lol jfc
"I don't like him so impeach impeach impeach!!!" |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:45 AM Author: Insane clear rigpig stead Not "I don't like him." "He is a sleazeball." Let's have a moratorium on sleazeballs for POTUS for the next 20 years until we can figure out what is going on. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243821) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:34 AM Author: jet parlour gaping He has prosecutorial discretion, ie the authority to fire crooked Bob for anything he wants. This is a non-story and Mueller should be fired as soon as possible (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242660) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:49 AM Author: exciting sexy national (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242772) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:49 AM Author: Domesticated background story LOL!
Is this the angle you're gonna run with? |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:53 AM Author: Insane clear rigpig stead (Jared Kushner taking a break from concocting a plan to fake his own death) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242797) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:54 AM Author: Pale Skinny Woman Area (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243270) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 9:35 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab Lol libs itt (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242672) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:05 AM Author: drunken plum reading party national security agency I am dumb when it comes to law stuff, so bear with me. But the libs bringing up Nixon-- isn't the difference there that there was actually a crime being covered up. Here, you have some manufactured bullshit and Trump says, "Hey, this is obviously a witchhunt -- get rid of this guy." Isn't that an important difference? Seriously, I am not being a smartass here, but if someone is coming after you with lies, etc. and you respond the way Trump did and NOTHING CAME OF IT (e.g. Mueller not fired) then it seems pretty fucking weak to call him out for obstruction. I know the first response will be that Russia is not manufactured bullshit but... |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:10 AM Author: Racy mentally impaired plaza For obstruction, it doesn't matter if the russia investigation turns out to be much ado about nothing.
Edit: Also, the reference to Nixon is not necessarily about his crimes but instead his famous line in an interview: "When the President does it, it's not illegal!" The posters above were pointing out that the argument that a President can't obstruct justice because he has prosecutorial authority tracks closely to Nixon's argument (ie that a president's authority is not limited by criminal law). |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:13 AM Author: exciting sexy national Is the president the executive in charge of the DOJ/FBI or not? Does have the power to direct their policy or no? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242925) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:15 AM Author: Thriller senate elastic band do you really not understand the distinction to be made w/r/t directing investigations of the POTUS and his family members themselves? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242933) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:19 AM Author: Motley death wish Can you identify for me the legal basis for the distinction? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242961) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:21 AM Author: exciting sexy national just trying to be clear on the reporting lines hoss. anyway, didnt all this 'obstruction; bs kick off because he supposedly asked comey to take it easy on michael flynn (who is not potus or his family, in case you forgot) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242969) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:26 AM Author: Curious Cruise Ship Roast Beef let's not get bogged down by facts (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243009) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:28 AM Author: Racy mentally impaired plaza I wouldn't say that is necessarily the distinction. I would argue that a President's authority to direct the DOJ/FBI is not absolute and not impervious to criminal law. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243027) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:30 AM Author: Motley death wish We have an established method for investigating and disciplining a rogue president, and it's not a fucking article 2 special counsel. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243041) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:34 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243077) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:40 AM Author: Racy mentally impaired plaza I don't see any issue with a special prosecutor conducting an investigation where the prosecuting authority has a potential conflict of interest. There are DOJ regulations setting forth a process for the appointment of a special prosecutor. Similar regulations and laws exist for DA's offices and localities. And there are plenty of mechanisms to contain a "rogue" special prosecutor, so the system has sufficient checks and balances. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243135) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:15 AM Author: drunken plum reading party national security agency Do you think it is pretty fucking weak to come after him for obstruction here? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242940) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:24 AM Author: Racy mentally impaired plaza I'm going to say what I say to everyone on this. I don't know because we don't have sufficient details. There's too much ridiculous speculation on both sides over this. I do think there is sufficient cause for an investigation given what we do know. Trump's own public statements indicate that quashing the investigation may have been a motivation.
I'd say the same for the Russia stuff. Guys like Flynn and Manafort are dirtbags and they were right there at the top of the campaign structure. The meeting at Trump Tower is very concerning especially given what we know about Russian efforts with US politicians to remove sanctions. Is it unfair to convict Trump right now? Sure. But it's also ridiculous to call this a witch-hunt or to declare that the FBI and DOJ are part of some Obama-led cabal to overthrow the President. Mueller is a straight shooter. Let him do his job. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:45 AM Author: Fragrant Olive Halford It's interesting that republicans are running so much frantic interference for a toothless investigation though.... (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243189) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:49 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab Or a fucking fishing trip conducted by those with a hostile animus. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243217) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:53 AM Author: exciting sexy national It's really not. The very existence of the investigation is extremely distracting and damaging. Just look at any wlmas insane screed. It's rational to try and shut it down (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243258) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:54 AM Author: Fragrant Olive Halford Lmao you guys *loved* investigations the last 8 years. What changed all of a sudden?
Odd case. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:54 AM Author: exciting sexy national I'm not a republican. Bullshit is bullshit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243281) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:56 AM Author: Fragrant Olive Halford Fair enough. Though to be clear the Russia investigation is not bullshit. There is overwhelming evidence Russia attempted to sway the campaign and Trump campaign staff have openly admitted attempting to collude with Russian government representatives against Clinton.
There's more than enough smoke to merit investigation for fire. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:59 AM Author: exciting sexy national The Russian investigation is just as bullshit as 'benghazi'. Perhaps more so. It's literally insane (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243334) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:04 AM Author: Fragrant Olive Halford Elaborate? In light of the campaign's admissions I don't think it can be dismissed. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243381) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:59 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab I have yet to see any of this 'overwhelming' evidence. Not one shred has been shared with the public. Odd it never gets leaked. Podesta had his Gmail account hacked? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243336) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:05 AM Author: Fragrant Olive Halford Are you serious? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243393) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:11 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab Yep, I've never seen anything tying the hacking to Russia. It's always trust us, it's conclusive. Lots of shady hacking comes from russia.
Even if it was directed via some govt back channel. So fucking what? That's going to happen in every election just as its probably happened in every modern campaign since. I'd be disappointed if we weren't acting the same. If we were so hacked who was in charge of safeguards at the time? Where was the institutional failure? Nope let's see if trump sorta kinda impeded a phony investigation into something he allegedly said etc etc. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:20 AM Author: Racy mentally impaired plaza I think the Trump Tower meeting with the russian agent and the correspondence surrounding that meeting (getting dirt on clinton; russian "adoptions") combined with what we know now as Russian efforts to influence voters and convince US politicians to remove sanctions is enough to warrant an investigation. There are other events and characters that raise suspicions of a possible quid pro quo with Russia or undue influence and a potential coverup/obstruction. Whether any of this amounted to a crime is another question, but it would be ridiculous to declare that there is nothing here warranting investigation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243532) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:26 AM Author: buck-toothed chapel hissy fit Oh our resident shithead GC knob-slobber thinks so? Well that changes everything! Fuck off, pinhead. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243590) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:27 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab It's an investigation into people not a crime. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243609) |
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Date: May 29th, 2019 1:44 PM Author: amber soul-stirring church building cuckoldry Fucking LOL, open collusion! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#38307819) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:56 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab Lol apt comparison so long as we also forget the lives of four lost Americans (which is cool, right?) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243303) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:57 AM Author: Fragrant Olive Halford So you feel we needed 15 plus investigations? None of that was done for political ends?
And an attack on the electoral process by a foreign agent is far more important frankly. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:59 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab No, but people actually died. Seems like a bigger deal to me.
Edit: and if this really is an investigation into a threat to our electoral system why is there zero focus on the people in charge of preventing it at the time? Nobody ever brings up who dropped the ball if it is such a big deal. The focus is on Trump exclusively. Odd case. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:03 AM Author: Fragrant Olive Halford Why? An incident not involving death will not always be outweighed in importance by an incident involving death.
You've conceded republicans use their political powers for underhanded political tricks. Why exactly should dems rise above while you guys spent 8 years abusing Obama every way you could?
The righteous sense of indignation is hysterical. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:06 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab I agree it didn't warrant 18 investigations and would be fine with having John McCain shot in his tumor. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243408) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:57 AM Author: Pale Skinny Woman Area 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243318) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:54 AM Author: Coiffed Hospital So your answer boils down to: “We’ll just never know the truth about Trump/Russia, but fortunately that even doesn’t matter anymore because obstruction.” (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243266) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:02 AM Author: Racy mentally impaired plaza No not at all. I'm merely saying that all of us are speculating because we don't have all of the facts yet. Mueller will issue a final report and I am willing to let that stand as the final word on the matter. I want him to investigate any Russian connection with the campaign and whether there was any quid pro quo re sanctions or whether special financial deals with Trump campaign officials allowed Russian agents to have influence on the campaign and ultimately Trump's foreign policy. I believe Mueller will be able to get us complete answers on these very serious issues. And if there were crimes committed he will prosecute those responsible. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243366) |
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Date: May 29th, 2019 1:40 PM Author: fiercely-loyal business firm Are you now willing to say "TRUMP DID NOTHING WRONG"? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#38307796) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:17 AM Author: Motley death wish Yes, but a great many other things do matter. Which statute do you think he violated? 1503? What's the current narrative? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35242948) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:46 AM Author: fiercely-loyal business firm >> For obstruction, it doesn't matter if the russia investigation turns out to be much ado about nothing. <<
Exactly, and, frankly, that's the whole point. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:50 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243225) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:52 AM Author: buck-toothed chapel hissy fit ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243251) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:58 AM Author: fiercely-loyal business firm the goal is and has always been catching someone in a process crime. this has been obvious from the start.
the fact that the merit in the underlying accusation is weak isn't a drawback, in fact you might say it's considered a feature. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:03 AM Author: Razzmatazz bipolar partner (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243372) |
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Date: May 29th, 2019 1:40 PM Author: fiercely-loyal business firm (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#38307798) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:27 AM Author: contagious cobalt menage quadroon It absolutely matters. First, libs need to get over this gigantic hurdle: Trump's firing of any executive head is a lawful exercise of his constitutional authority. Nothing you say or twist will ever change that. He can fire and hire who he wants.
The second question is "but under these particular circumstances, do his actions separately constitute a federal crime?" There are prominent learned scholars that say "no, because see #1." Without going on too much of a screed, the basic reason for this position is that then almost any lawful exercise of presidential power could be turned into a crime. I.E, president directs military engagement. Libs: "but that's murder!"
This distinction about lawful exercise of constitutional authority is important, because we are not, for example, talking about Trump shooting someone in the head and then dumping the body in the Potomac. Moreover, under this ridiculous theory, a President's termination of any executive head that had an open investigation or enforcement action (DOJ, FBI, EPA, etc) could then be accused of obstructing of justice. "B-But they were investigating a Republican!!"
Finally, we return to your original claim, that Trump can be charged for firing an agency head involved in an investigation, even if that investigation turns out to be "much Ado about nothing." Well, as it looks like it will turn out, that "investigation" was precipitated by a previous administration, on knowingly false grounds, and involved biased political opponents that were: 1) abusing their power; and 2) likely committing crimes.
So, assuming libs somehow overcome the first gigantic hurdle (the United States Constitution), you really think that this country has the appetite to entertain the notion that the President can "obstruct" a fake investigation that was designed to unseat him from his duly elected position?
Good luck. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:29 AM Author: buck-toothed chapel hissy fit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243627) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:30 AM Author: comical adulterous potus rehab This is all to say nothing of an actual impeachment through the house and senate. Ridiculous. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243637) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:38 AM Author: Boyish Messiness Trailer Park (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243724) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 12:45 PM Author: Insane clear rigpig stead The only way Watergate worked was that there was an audio recording of Nixon saying flat out "what we have to do is pressure these members of the executive branch to impede this investigation" and the obstruction became undeniable. Without that type of smoking gun clearly impeachment is unlikely for Trump. But you're trying to turn an argument about the likelihood of actual impeachment into an argument that an investigation is unconstitutional, and that's pure sophistry. Mueller may not find a smoking gun. He may come out and say "no indictments for Trump or anyone in the White House" but that still wouldn't mean the investigation was unlawful as a matter of constitutional authority. Trump can of course fire people in the executive branch, but if his choice to fire someone is accompanied by smoking gun evidence of his intent to impede a criminal investigation into his campaign, then he committed a crime and should be subject to the constitutional remedies. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35244537) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 1:01 PM Author: contagious cobalt menage quadroon You are really confused. I didn't mention impeachment in my post or at any point claim that an investigation is "unconstitutional." Please see point #1 above.
,Thank |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 1:10 PM Author: Insane clear rigpig stead Did you read your own post? “No because see 1” is of course where you make (or attribute to “scholars”) a specific constitutional argument of the POTUS’ supreme power of hiring and firing that supersedes any exercise of the federal criminal law. This is bullshit for the reasons I stated. An argument that a POTUS should have an absolute power to hire and fire regardless of whether it is accompanied by hard evidence that it occurred in connection with an attempt to obstruct an investigation into a POTUS’ crimes because then people will sue him for exercises of his war powers is strained as fuck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35244854) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 1:24 PM Author: contagious cobalt menage quadroon Please go back and see #1.
Now this is really going to blow your mind. What if I were to tell you that the United States Constitution does in fact Trump (hehe) the entire federal criminal code in this country?
Please think long and hard before you respond. Then go back and see #1. |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 1:35 PM Author: Racy mentally impaired plaza titcr. If you take his argument to its logical conclusion, most political corruption cases, including OOJ cases, would be improper. Corrupt politicians and governmental officials use the cloak of their authority to commit illegal acts. The use of that authority does not cleanse improper actions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35245103) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 1:50 PM Author: contagious cobalt menage quadroon Lol, embarrassingly wrong. Let me break this down for your tiny pink lib brain: if an act is authorized by the Constitution, it cannot be "illegal" in this country. Everything I've said in thread is about the exercise of executive power, pursuant to Article Two of the Constitution.
Your example of other corrupt politicians is bizarre because they obviously do not have Article Two authority.
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Date: January 26th, 2018 1:54 PM Author: fiercely-loyal business firm which, in a way, is why impeachment as a tool against a president is a political remedy, not a legal one (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35245284) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 1:55 PM Author: contagious cobalt menage quadroon Correct. I've never mentioned or argued about impeachment, because Trump could still be impeached. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35245293) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 10:59 AM Author: Boyish Messiness Trailer Park lol @ xo falling for the fake news jews (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243345) |
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Date: January 26th, 2018 11:06 AM Author: Fragrant Olive Halford Ask Sean Hannity! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=3871115&forum_id=2#35243401) |