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How much do you save each month?

How much do you put into savings, 401(k), trading accounts, ...
Titillating scarlet athletic conference boistinker
  06/20/18
...
boyish lake piazza digit ratio
  06/20/18
...
gay internal respiration
  06/21/18
8-10k, plus 50k at the end of the year
blue electric multi-billionaire
  06/20/18
Annual salary?
Slate vibrant gay wizard
  06/20/18
JFC
Titillating scarlet athletic conference boistinker
  06/20/18
That's a nice chunk
Medicated Private Investor Nursing Home
  06/20/18
If 401k counts then I guess like $2k. If not then almost ...
provocative mischievous ticket booth
  06/20/18
Wtf
duck-like reading party
  06/20/18
?
provocative mischievous ticket booth
  06/20/18
I thought you were lawyer making at least decent money
duck-like reading party
  06/20/18
I am I have a shitload of student loans still and I'm a prof...
provocative mischievous ticket booth
  06/20/18
So you’ll be back to $0 around the time you’re getting shown...
duck-like reading party
  06/20/18
How do you save 24k into a 401k with an 18.5k limit? Employe...
Slate vibrant gay wizard
  06/20/18
Isnt it higher for marriedmos?
Cobalt indirect expression shrine
  06/20/18
Yes I'm counting match
provocative mischievous ticket booth
  06/20/18
I save about 2,400 monthly, but I also spend way too much on...
Medicated Private Investor Nursing Home
  06/20/18
About 25k/month until last month when I semi-retired
Emerald Know-it-all Water Buffalo
  06/20/18
What was your profession?
Titillating scarlet athletic conference boistinker
  06/20/18
whoring out my PhD as an expert witness and similar at obsce...
Emerald Know-it-all Water Buffalo
  06/20/18
180
duck-like reading party
  06/20/18
We are all whores and have our price Now that my asshole is...
Emerald Know-it-all Water Buffalo
  06/20/18
401k shouldn’t really be counted as savings I max out 401...
180 mentally impaired wrinkle
  06/20/18
About $2000-2500 a month. 401k is only like $600 a month (I ...
Grizzly toaster
  06/20/18
what’s your side gig (no doobs)?
hairraiser persian
  06/20/18
I have several. I do some independent editing work on books,...
Grizzly toaster
  06/20/18
Which quiz bowl company?
Crimson mental disorder messiness
  06/20/18
Not sure tbh, I just help with tournaments that a friend tel...
Grizzly toaster
  06/20/18
POWER!
french seedy personal credit line
  06/20/18
Wtf, dont you make like 50k? So you’re a cheapmo
Stirring Native Fat Ankles
  06/20/18
I'm in contention for most aggressive cheapmo on XO.
Grizzly toaster
  06/20/18
about 5k need to step it up
Comical mauve box office bbw
  06/20/18
180, that's still probably better than 95% of the population...
Titillating scarlet athletic conference boistinker
  06/20/18
you need to fuck my ass, nigger
crawly hunting ground
  06/20/18
...
aggressive cuckoldry
  06/20/18
$0 every dollar u "save" represents time wasted sl...
Infuriating Cheese-eating Headpube Travel Guidebook
  06/20/18
...
vivacious flushed roast beef school
  06/20/18
$4500/mo into work retirement accounts (not including wife,...
crawly hunting ground
  06/20/18
Crypto's dead so, nothing
Disrespectful Point Pistol
  06/20/18
Shit how do you guys save so much ...
poppy circlehead
  06/20/18
$6k
saffron bossy jewess office
  06/20/18
few gs per month. hopefully more once my kids are out of god...
Disturbing pisswyrm
  06/20/18
Like ~$25k/mo if you average it out. About $5k/mo in 401k.
Unhinged iridescent stead
  06/20/18
$5000 a month in your 401k? Limits are $18,500 for the entir...
claret public bath
  06/21/18
Cr lol
Metal hell
  06/21/18
What is everybody saving for? I just see it as money left ov...
cyan forum pocket flask
  06/20/18
Car, house, potential joblessness, family crisis, health cri...
Grizzly toaster
  06/20/18
I have an HSA for “health crisis”, 401k for “retirement” and...
cyan forum pocket flask
  06/20/18
If you don't plan to marry or kidhave that's probably fine. ...
Grizzly toaster
  06/20/18
"I believe in accumulating experiences, not material go...
Bull Headed Self-absorbed Laser Beams Hall
  06/20/18
Saving so we don't have to fucking save anymore. All about ...
Insecure bat-shit-crazy blood rage
  06/20/18
I hate working. I'm saving and investing it in rental proper...
Titillating scarlet athletic conference boistinker
  06/20/18
I fucking hate working. Should be able to peace out by 50, m...
Shimmering gaming laptop black woman
  06/20/18
Really sad that so much of XO hates their job. I'll almost c...
Grizzly toaster
  06/20/18
I would hate pretty much any job. At least this one pays ok,...
Shimmering gaming laptop black woman
  06/20/18
$7.5-8K tax deferred each month. Probably another ~$2K ...
appetizing abode
  06/20/18
how do you save $8k/month tax deferred
blue electric multi-billionaire
  06/20/18
$17K 401K or whatever the limit is. $35K profit sharing p...
appetizing abode
  06/20/18
lmao
Violent arousing volcanic crater lay
  06/20/18
...
Disrespectful Point Pistol
  06/20/18
What? (millennial poa
racy chrome brunch
  06/20/18
...
Infuriating Cheese-eating Headpube Travel Guidebook
  06/20/18
none. if i have a positive balance before payday i must be s...
Sticky Dark Party Of The First Part Sound Barrier
  06/20/18
avg more or less 15K
Spruce Hideous Dilemma Dopamine
  06/20/18
I don't keep track, but probably $6-7k.
Slippery fragrant base chad
  06/20/18
Around $2k which is almost unheard of among retail workers l...
Frum cruise ship
  06/20/18
That's a lot for you bro. Well done.
Shimmering gaming laptop black woman
  06/20/18
wtf, do you live in your car. how much can a grocery worker ...
glassy irradiated selfie
  06/20/18
he’s a manager not a stock boy
bright gaped school cafeteria cumskin
  06/21/18
Jesus saves. Moses invests.
Obsidian Cuckold Business Firm
  06/21/18
-$2,500
Obsidian Cuckold Business Firm
  06/21/18
$25k on average.
Rebellious citrine potus
  06/21/18


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:21 PM
Author: Titillating scarlet athletic conference boistinker

How much do you put into savings, 401(k), trading accounts, etc. each month?

I'm somewhere between $2k-$4k depending upon the month.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279512)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:23 PM
Author: boyish lake piazza digit ratio



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279528)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 21st, 2018 11:44 AM
Author: gay internal respiration

Post removed by moderator for violating The Law of The Land.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36284225)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:26 PM
Author: blue electric multi-billionaire

8-10k, plus 50k at the end of the year

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279553)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:29 PM
Author: Slate vibrant gay wizard

Annual salary?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279572)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:36 PM
Author: Titillating scarlet athletic conference boistinker

JFC

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279624)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:38 PM
Author: Medicated Private Investor Nursing Home

That's a nice chunk

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279643)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:27 PM
Author: provocative mischievous ticket booth

If 401k counts then I guess like $2k.

If not then almost nothing

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279559)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:30 PM
Author: duck-like reading party

Wtf

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279576)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:30 PM
Author: provocative mischievous ticket booth

?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279579)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:32 PM
Author: duck-like reading party

I thought you were lawyer making at least decent money

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279599)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:33 PM
Author: provocative mischievous ticket booth

I am I have a shitload of student loans still and I'm a profligate spender

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279603)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:38 PM
Author: duck-like reading party

So you’ll be back to $0 around the time you’re getting shown the door in biglaw

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279650)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:47 PM
Author: Slate vibrant gay wizard

How do you save 24k into a 401k with an 18.5k limit? Employer match?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279723)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 4:15 PM
Author: Cobalt indirect expression shrine

Isnt it higher for marriedmos?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279902)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 4:43 PM
Author: provocative mischievous ticket booth

Yes I'm counting match

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280068)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:35 PM
Author: Medicated Private Investor Nursing Home

I save about 2,400 monthly, but I also spend way too much on stupid shit like Starbucks and what not.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279620)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:39 PM
Author: Emerald Know-it-all Water Buffalo

About 25k/month until last month when I semi-retired

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279657)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:43 PM
Author: Titillating scarlet athletic conference boistinker

What was your profession?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279689)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:44 PM
Author: Emerald Know-it-all Water Buffalo

whoring out my PhD as an expert witness and similar at obscene rates towards the end

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279704)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:50 PM
Author: duck-like reading party

180

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279741)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:52 PM
Author: Emerald Know-it-all Water Buffalo

We are all whores and have our price

Now that my asshole is well and truly puckered I can do some things because they are good to do, not because of the check

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279760)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:40 PM
Author: 180 mentally impaired wrinkle

401k shouldn’t really be counted as savings

I max out 401k, then save about $2,000 after tax monthly, excluding bonus. I save or invest as much of bonus as possible. Last year, saved about $50K of bonus.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279672)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:41 PM
Author: Grizzly toaster

About $2000-2500 a month. 401k is only like $600 a month (I just max out my match) and then the rest is post-tax savings and investments. Side-gig money probably adds another 15k or so over the course of a year.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279677)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 4:48 PM
Author: hairraiser persian

what’s your side gig (no doobs)?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280095)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:17 PM
Author: Grizzly toaster

I have several. I do some independent editing work on books, I write questions and judge rounds for Quiz Bowl tournaments, and I help teach board games for the military. So far this year all side gigs combined have been worth about 15k, which is quite a bit for me.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280220)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:56 PM
Author: Crimson mental disorder messiness

Which quiz bowl company?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280511)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 8:24 PM
Author: Grizzly toaster

Not sure tbh, I just help with tournaments that a friend tells me about. I didn't actually do Quiz Bowl.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36281265)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 8:23 PM
Author: french seedy personal credit line

POWER!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36281261)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 7:01 PM
Author: Stirring Native Fat Ankles

Wtf, dont you make like 50k? So you’re a cheapmo

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280883)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 8:11 PM
Author: Grizzly toaster

I'm in contention for most aggressive cheapmo on XO.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36281209)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:49 PM
Author: Comical mauve box office bbw

about 5k

need to step it up

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279738)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 4:12 PM
Author: Titillating scarlet athletic conference boistinker

180, that's still probably better than 95% of the population.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279884)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 4:13 PM
Author: crawly hunting ground

you need to fuck my ass, nigger

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279891)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 4:34 PM
Author: aggressive cuckoldry



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280008)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:54 PM
Author: Infuriating Cheese-eating Headpube Travel Guidebook

$0 every dollar u "save" represents time wasted slaving away that u didn't have to, for which u will never see any return

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279765)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 4:34 PM
Author: vivacious flushed roast beef school



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280010)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 3:56 PM
Author: crawly hunting ground

$4500/mo into work retirement accounts (not including wife, who maxes out 401(k) and gets a match of around $8k/yr).

$11k/year backdoor roths (wife and me).

$1k/mo into a state bond fund.

$900/mo cash (but usually end up tappign into this so it winds up not really being savings).

$450/mo into a 529.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279779)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 4:32 PM
Author: Disrespectful Point Pistol

Crypto's dead so, nothing

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36279999)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 4:43 PM
Author: poppy circlehead

Shit how do you guys save so much ...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280061)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 4:44 PM
Author: saffron bossy jewess office

$6k

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280070)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 4:45 PM
Author: Disturbing pisswyrm

few gs per month. hopefully more once my kids are out of goddamn daycare.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280080)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 4:45 PM
Author: Unhinged iridescent stead

Like ~$25k/mo if you average it out. About $5k/mo in 401k.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280083)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 21st, 2018 11:37 AM
Author: claret public bath

$5000 a month in your 401k? Limits are $18,500 for the entire year.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36284181)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 21st, 2018 11:43 AM
Author: Metal hell

Cr lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36284218)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:22 PM
Author: cyan forum pocket flask

What is everybody saving for? I just see it as money left over because there’s nothing for me to spend it on. I don’t have any illusions about it actually having value lol

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280256)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:24 PM
Author: Grizzly toaster

Car, house, potential joblessness, family crisis, health crisis, general security, etc.

That said, I'm pretty similar, as I naturally just don't spend much money.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280271)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:27 PM
Author: cyan forum pocket flask

I have an HSA for “health crisis”, 401k for “retirement” and then some ca$h that sits in my account. If I need to buy something I just charge it and pay it off. Idk what else there is really, home ownership seems flame.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280295)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:32 PM
Author: Grizzly toaster

If you don't plan to marry or kidhave that's probably fine.

Also I frankly suspect I may be politically unemployable at some point so I hoard against that day.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280320)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:34 PM
Author: Bull Headed Self-absorbed Laser Beams Hall

"I believe in accumulating experiences, not material goods", said the travelshrew.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280333)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:39 PM
Author: Insecure bat-shit-crazy blood rage

Saving so we don't have to fucking save anymore. All about socking away cash when you're young so you can get compound interest brah.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280371)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 7:16 PM
Author: Titillating scarlet athletic conference boistinker

I hate working. I'm saving and investing it in rental properties so I can stop being a lawyer one day.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280944)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 8:31 PM
Author: Shimmering gaming laptop black woman

I fucking hate working. Should be able to peace out by 50, maybe earlier.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36281295)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 8:32 PM
Author: Grizzly toaster

Really sad that so much of XO hates their job. I'll almost certainly never be rich but the fact I don't actively hate going into work is a huge boost to my life.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36281302)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 8:33 PM
Author: Shimmering gaming laptop black woman

I would hate pretty much any job. At least this one pays ok, and I don't work insane hours like some of these guys. But yeah. And good for you.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36281305)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:26 PM
Author: appetizing abode

$7.5-8K tax deferred each month.

Probably another ~$2K after tax give or take each month.

Then $100-150K after tax end of the year depending on how I do.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280284)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:37 PM
Author: blue electric multi-billionaire

how do you save $8k/month tax deferred

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280353)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 6:10 PM
Author: appetizing abode

$17K 401K or whatever the limit is.

$35K profit sharing plan (same as 401K)

$35-45K in defined benefits plan (shitty low risk forced investments)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280605)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:27 PM
Author: Violent arousing volcanic crater lay

lmao

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280288)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 7:22 PM
Author: Disrespectful Point Pistol



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280974)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:35 PM
Author: racy chrome brunch

What? (millennial poa

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280339)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:56 PM
Author: Infuriating Cheese-eating Headpube Travel Guidebook



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280503)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 5:35 PM
Author: Sticky Dark Party Of The First Part Sound Barrier

none. if i have a positive balance before payday i must be sick.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280341)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 6:53 PM
Author: Spruce Hideous Dilemma Dopamine

avg more or less 15K

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36280839)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 8:26 PM
Author: Slippery fragrant base chad

I don't keep track, but probably $6-7k.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36281275)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 8:29 PM
Author: Frum cruise ship

Around $2k which is almost unheard of among retail workers like myself

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36281285)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 8:31 PM
Author: Shimmering gaming laptop black woman

That's a lot for you bro. Well done.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36281298)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 20th, 2018 8:33 PM
Author: glassy irradiated selfie

wtf, do you live in your car. how much can a grocery worker have left after Seattle rent.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36281304)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 21st, 2018 11:34 AM
Author: bright gaped school cafeteria cumskin

he’s a manager not a stock boy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36284156)



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Date: June 21st, 2018 11:33 AM
Author: Obsidian Cuckold Business Firm

Jesus saves. Moses invests.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36284150)



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Date: June 21st, 2018 11:40 AM
Author: Obsidian Cuckold Business Firm

-$2,500

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36284199)



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Date: June 21st, 2018 1:52 PM
Author: Rebellious citrine potus

$25k on average.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4006623&forum_id=2#36285092)