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Anybody own a cat? How much work are they? Worth it?
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Date: August 17th, 2018 3:59 PM Author: Bronze odious business firm roast beef Non-petmo. Live in a small apartment. Would like to get a dog at a later time, but a cat is all I can handle.. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634285) |
Date: August 17th, 2018 4:13 PM Author: underhanded histrionic chad kitchen cats require zero effort other than scooping litter. they don't have "accidents", you can leave them over a weekend, etc. they are quiet and clean.
I've raised dogs from puppies and it's not similar at all.
they may scratch your furniture and shit if you care about that. |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:17 PM Author: Bronze odious business firm roast beef Can't I just get them a scratching post? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634448) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:22 PM Author: Smoky crackhouse hissy fit Yeah, they'll obediently scratch the designated post and only the designated post, and not whatever else looks interesting be it your furniture, suits, or even your face while you sleep.
Cats are pretty 180, especially when you wake up to one purring on your chest, gently nudging your face to get you up, but they're also little hellions that will trash your shit. |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:24 PM Author: Pearly orchestra pit You train them starting when they are kittens and it’s fine. Dogs are way more unpredictable in what they will destroy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634492) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:26 PM Author: underhanded histrionic chad kitchen serious fake news here. cats are not trained.
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:27 PM Author: Pearly orchestra pit Pooping and scratching, yes they are. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634514) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:30 PM Author: underhanded histrionic chad kitchen retarded fake news.
I took cats off the street, literally zero litter training.
and they'll scratch whatever they want. you can stop them in the moment but lol at training. |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:56 PM Author: Pearly orchestra pit It sounds like you're just not good at training cats. Here are some extremely well-trained cats:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mfUJTF5zYI |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:18 PM Author: soul-stirring sound barrier clown One of my partners has a cat that he taught to use the toilet. Not flame. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634844) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 12:17 PM Author: Henna personal credit line nursing home I think I know that guy. His son in law is a nurse right? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36638528) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 1:53 PM Author: soul-stirring sound barrier clown Nope. He doesn’t have kids, unsurprisingly. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36639137) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:34 PM Author: snowy market deer antler My catdoods stick to their scratching posts and cat tree. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634937) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:25 PM Author: underhanded histrionic chad kitchen you can and should.
they may like something else, though. like your couch.
there are different scratching post materials--try them all if your cat doesn't seem to love the one you have. |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:18 PM Author: Multi-colored stead death wish My cat is 180. Catdoods are superior beings, they don’t need to be “taken care of” (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634456) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 2:08 AM Author: High-end casino my cat took care of me when i was an orphaned kid. she was my kittymom. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36637365) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 12:11 PM Author: maniacal galvanic center this poast is the rosetta stone to your voynich of an ouevre (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36638500) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:23 PM Author: Pearly orchestra pit I believe imanagecat does (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634479) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:23 PM Author: Pearly orchestra pit They’re no more than five min of work per day. Get a robolitterbox. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634482) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:33 PM Author: Olive ungodly parlor immigrant get a dog dude. people with only cats are weird (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634554) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:41 PM Author: Adulterous skinny woman forum Pasturella multocida. Your sweet little cat will go with you everywhere you move throughout life, from apartment to condo, from one coast to the other. It will let you shove it in a crate where it will be trapped for five hours on a plane and it will piss on itself during the flight. It will test you, trying to claim more space in your bed from you. It will scratch and playfully bite you. You will think nothing of the tiny puncture wound, rinse it and wake up the next day with a severe subcutaneous infection. Your doctor will share some very saddening statistics regarding the treatment prognosis for this kind of infection. You will wish you hadn't ever gotten a cat. |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 11:38 PM Author: Elite Sanctuary LOL, I've been bitten and scratched by my little bastard more times than I can count. Nothing has ever happened. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36636858) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 4:41 PM Author: Adulterous skinny woman forum When they are play biting that's different than when they truly perceive a threat, in the latter instance you will imagine a raccoon has got hold of you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36640047) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 11:39 PM Author: Out-of-control Sickened National Security Agency white women die from dog kisses every day (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36636862) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 2:19 AM Author: High-end casino i have a scar on my forearm from a past beloved kittydood. i wouldnt trade that scare for a million dollars, and id give a million to have my fuzball best friend back. fuk u, deshaun
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Date: August 18th, 2018 4:32 PM Author: Adulterous skinny woman forum I am a cat person. No one wants the expense of insurance, but shit happens. Statistically, infection from cat bit is as rare as contracting staph, but if you get one of a certain kind you'd better brace yourself for what this entails from a probability standpoint. An insidious, Trojan horse infection from an otherwise innocent looking bite, if well place on your body, is the reality I am cautioning OP to be aware of. I don't give a fuck about your scar. I've rescued more cats, it seems, than the total number of times your parents told you they loved you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36639988) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 4:52 PM Author: Hairraiser Dilemma Weed Whacker my cat is basically zero work. i would advise trying to potty train your cat while it's still young. buy something like the litter kwitter system - generally it works provided your cat isn't dumb and you start at a young age. now i just have to feed her and take her to the vet occasionally. i can't stand the smell of a litter box.
they are generally good pets. there are certainly shitty cats out there that have little interest in human contact or are very fearful, but they are usually affectionate. my cat waits by the door when i am gone and wants to sit on my lap as soon as i get back home. they aren't quite as loving as dogs, but i prefer not having a very needy pet. |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:02 PM Author: Multi-colored stead death wish “Between dogs and cats my degree of choice is so great that it would never occur to me to compare the two. I have no active dislike for dogs, any more than I have for monkeys, human beings, negroes, cows, sheep, or pterodactyls; but for the cat I have entertained a particular respect and affection ever since the earliest days of my infancy. In its flawless grace and superior self-sufficiency I have seen a symbol of the perfect beauty and bland impersonality of the universe itself, objectively considered; and in its air of silent mystery there resides for me all the wonder and fascination of the unknown. The dog appeals to cheap and facile emotions; the cat to the deepest founts of imagination and cosmic perception in the human mind. It is no accident that the contemplative Egyptians, together with such later poetic spirits as Poe, Gautier, Baudelaire, and Swinburne, were all sincere worshippers of the supple grimalkin. Naturally, one’s preference in the matter of cats and dogs depends wholly upon one’s temperament and point of view. The dog would appear to me to be the favourite of superficial, sentimental, emotional, and democratic people—people who feel rather than think, who attach importance to mankind and the popular conventional emotions of the simple, and who find their greatest consolation in the fawning and dependent attachments of a gregarious society. Such people live in a limited world of imagination; accepting uncritically the values of common folklore, and always preferring to have their naive beliefs, feelings, and prejudices tickled, rather than to enjoy a purely aesthetic and philosophic pleasure arising from discrimination, contemplation, and the recognition of austere absolute beauty. This is not to say that the cheaper emotions do not also reside in the average cat-lover’s love of cats, but merely to point out that in ailurophily there exists a basis of true aestheticism which kynophily does not possess. The real lover of cats is one who demands a clearer adjustment to the universe than ordinary household platitudes provide; one who refuses to swallow the sentimental notion that all good people love dogs, children, and horses while all bad people dislike and are disliked by such. He is unwilling to set up himself and his cruder feelings as a measure of universal values, or to allow shallow ethical notions to warp his judgment. In a word, he had rather admire and respect than effuse and dote; and does not fall into the fallacy that pointless sociability and friendliness, or slavering devotion and obedience, constitute anything intrinsically admirable or exalted. Dog-lovers base their whole case on these commonplace, servile, and plebeian qualities, and amusingly judge the intelligence of a pet by its degree of conformity to their own wishes. Catlovers escape this delusion, repudiate the idea that cringing subservience and sidling companionship to man are supreme merits, and stand free to worship aristocratic independence, self-respect, and individual personality joined to extreme grace and beauty as typified by the cool, lithe, cynical, and unconquered lord of the housetops.” |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:09 PM Author: Pearly orchestra pit sci-fi indeed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634803) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:17 PM Author: Gaped appetizing mood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634838) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:36 PM Author: snowy market deer antler (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634960) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:38 PM Author: Flushed overrated jap Jesus. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634967) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:40 PM Author: snowy market deer antler ...who doesn't repudiate the idea that cringing subservience is a supreme merit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634985) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:44 PM Author: Flushed overrated jap 180 twist Kirby, Jesus was in fact a dogmo. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36635017) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 1:13 PM Author: Elite Sanctuary Only some artistic faggot and XOers would look down on a creature known for its loyalty and love and instead revere another creature who wouldn't gaf if you died tomorrow. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36638865) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 5:29 PM Author: snowy market deer antler Cats care. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36640268) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 5:42 PM Author: Elite Sanctuary Not really. They care where their next meal comes from, if they get let outside or back in, etc. Who does it doesn't matter as much. They prefer someone they know to someone they don't, but it can be any number of people.
My cat lived with my dog walker who rescued him. We took him and he forgot about her almost immediately. Even she was upset about it. For a few months our friend took him. He didn't care about that either. |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 11:14 PM Author: snowy market deer antler My cats greet me at the door when I come home. They hang out with me. When I leave them at a friend's house when I go on trips, they run to meet me when I come to pick them up. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36641651) |
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Date: August 19th, 2018 12:26 AM Author: Elite Sanctuary Jfc, you have multiple cats? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36641914) |
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Date: August 19th, 2018 12:42 AM Author: snowy market deer antler http://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634963 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36641966) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:41 PM Author: Domesticated library 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634994) |
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Date: August 19th, 2018 12:25 AM Author: Slate flirting cuckoldry space Dogmos done here (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36641912) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:10 PM Author: Gaped appetizing mood They're 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634807) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:11 PM Author: jade theater stage Lol at cats not having "accidents" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634814) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 11:37 PM Author: Elite Sanctuary (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36636851) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:12 PM Author: motley location nibblets depends if you are low-T (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634818) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:13 PM Author: supple jew Highly dependent on the individual cat. I'm a hardcore dogmo to the core, but there are some 180 cats.
Make damn sure you are not allergic to cats beforehand. If it turns out you are allergic, you will be miserable while the cat lives in your place, and it will be difficult to find someone to take your cat. |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:15 PM Author: motley location nibblets wow! u are a faggot (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634832) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:19 PM Author: supple jew Rude and uncalled for.
What part of my post do you take issue with, brother? |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:17 PM Author: stirring ivory whorehouse Try and get a cat that doesn't shed hair. Nightmare if you're an autist who only wears black and covered in grey cat hair.
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Date: August 18th, 2018 2:13 AM Author: High-end casino nightmarish if your an autist. period. |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:23 PM Author: Fuchsia bearded institution windowlicker Try a Maine Coone or mix of one. This is a good cat for a bro to have. Very dog like, and masculine as far as cats go. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634869) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:24 PM Author: supple jew agreed (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634874) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:25 PM Author: Floppy Rose Stag Film Milk They're 180 if you raise them right. For best results get two. Even better if they are litter mates. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634883) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:38 PM Author: snowy market deer antler I have two littermates. They're best buds. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634963) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 11:03 AM Author: rusted travel guidebook regret (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36638193) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:27 PM Author: Domesticated library there incredibly 180. eg, if you have a rodent or insect problem like most of xo, depending on they're mood, they will pwn some of that shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634898) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:30 PM Author: Bronze odious business firm roast beef I got house centipedes I'm trying to get rid. Would a cat solve my problems? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634918) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:38 PM Author: Domesticated library not sure if those faggots move fast enough to capture the attention of a cat dood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634964) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:40 PM Author: Bronze odious business firm roast beef They're the fucking cheetahs of the bug world breh. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634989) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:43 PM Author: rusted travel guidebook regret My cat doods kill beetles like nobody's business. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36635011) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 3:06 PM Author: Domesticated library 180 (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36639542) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 7:46 PM Author: Elite Sanctuary Mine will go after flies but won't hunt spiders, centipedes, etc. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36640798) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 5:02 PM Author: Elite Sanctuary House centipedes are 180. Let them chill. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36640142) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:36 PM Author: Flushed overrated jap Cats have a critical window. I had a girl then a boy. The girl cat we got at 7 months from a rescue. She turned out pretty nice but could easily turn nasty because she was "feral" up until 7 months. Still a kitten but some of her mental/aberrant behavior was set by that point. We also had a boy kitty raised right from the get go who turned out to be the sweetest, chillest cat I've ever seen. Like almost dog-level friendly and social. So if you get them from tiny kitten stage, they turn out pretty cool. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634956) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 5:41 PM Author: heady candlestick maker chill as fuck. very low maintenance pet. highly recommend! My cat is sitting on my lap watching me poast this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36634992) |
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Date: August 17th, 2018 11:32 PM Author: Elite Sanctuary They suck. They aren't loyal like dogs, you really don't want to travel with them, they aren't useful unless you have mice, etc. They're a surprising pain in the ass. Litter box means they're still shitting in the house. 97% they shit in the box. 3% they decide they want to shit somewhere else. Cat people will tell you that it's your fault because their litter box wasn't clean enough or whatever, but it is BS because cats are malicious assholes that don't are about what you like. They vomit. Hairballs, grass, ate too much food, whatever. They scratch your furniture even though they have scratching posts. The only good thing is that you can lock them outside periodically (I think people who keep cats locked inside their entire lives are insane).
They shed a surprising amount. Bathing them is awful, though with mine the few times I gave him a full on bath I was able to shampoo and wash him in under 2 minutes. They still need to go to the vet once a year. They meow, they go crazy at 5am, they decide to bother you at 3am and have none of the charisma and don't draw the love you feel for a dog. I've had this little bastard for maybe 6-7 years and after he finally kicks the bucket I hope to never own another cat again. |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 2:53 PM Author: Gaped appetizing mood Terrible poast (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36639469) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 5:01 PM Author: Elite Sanctuary Yet 100% true. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36640134) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 11:28 PM Author: Hairraiser Dilemma Weed Whacker you and mandy should definitely have kids if you think owning a cat is this much of a burden. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36641691) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 11:50 PM Author: Elite Sanctuary But we love our dog! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36641762) |
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Date: August 19th, 2018 12:40 PM Author: Hairraiser Dilemma Weed Whacker kids are a lot more like cats than dogs. LJL if you think your kid will be subservient or unconditionally loving. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36643513) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 2:00 AM Author: High-end casino they are moderate work and worth 180 billion times more than any human beings life. hth (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36637345) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 2:16 AM Author: Dun excitant idea he suggested national big cats > dogs >>> cats (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36637386) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 10:47 AM Author: apoplectic office i grew up with dogs. cats are great. if you need more evidence that they're good besides basically every poaster ITT saying they're good, refer to TMF's opinion (and recall that it's TMF saying it). that should clinch it for you. |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 1:13 PM Author: Elite Sanctuary Hey, if you want a cat I've got one you can have. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36638858) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 11:33 PM Author: apoplectic office i've got enough nigger (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36641712) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 11:24 AM Author: sapphire autistic principal's office coffee pot What's the credited way to get a catdood? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36638255) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 1:15 PM Author: Elite Sanctuary Rescue is always the answer (any pound/humane society has a million cats, plus I've found several stray kittens that I've managed to adopt out). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36638880) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 2:52 PM Author: Gaped appetizing mood (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36639461) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 12:02 PM Author: Olive ungodly parlor immigrant Yeah millions of batshit crazy shrews cant be wrong (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36638441) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 2:06 PM Author: Charcoal Vibrant Quadroon Round Eye (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36639210) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 2:54 PM Author: Multi-colored stead death wish The reason single women love cats is because they are the animal equivalent of alpha males - aloof, mysterious, withholding affection, self-sufficient. Dogs are the beta cucks of housepets. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36639475) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 3:05 PM Author: Gaped appetizing mood Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36639535) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 3:06 PM Author: Domesticated library Cr (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36639540) |
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Date: August 19th, 2018 12:39 AM Author: maniacal galvanic center (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36641955) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 3:15 PM Author: seedy shitlib menage In general, the dynamic between man and dog = dog is your faithful sidekick who likes to chill with you and will give up his life for you.
The dynamic between man and cat = the man is like a cuck bitch who caters to the Queen Cat, who regards him with disdain and would kill him if they were the same size.
This is not always true, because I have encountered some friendly and affectionate cats, but is a good general rule. |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 4:11 PM Author: Gaped appetizing mood There are a lot of chill cat dudes will are just as affectionate as dogs (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36639833) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 5:01 PM Author: Elite Sanctuary Exactly right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36640138) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 11:26 PM Author: Henna personal credit line nursing home (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36641689) |
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Date: August 18th, 2018 11:32 PM Author: Nudist brass laser beams cats are great. hardly any work and really cute. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4054251&forum_id=2#36641705) |