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Why Can’t Everyone Get A’s? (nyt)

Why Can’t Everyone Get A’s? Excellence is not a...
soul-stirring lemon incel shrine
  06/17/19
by (((Alfie Kohn)))
Boyish Travel Guidebook Headpube
  06/17/19
...
Overrated maize goal in life associate
  06/18/19
...
lake irate chad
  06/17/19
jesus christ libs. it's almost as if "standards"...
gaped fiercely-loyal boistinker
  06/17/19
...
Canary preventive strike scourge upon the earth
  06/18/19
false belief that excellence is a zero-sum game
Charismatic bistre roommate nibblets
  06/17/19
It’s almost like the word “excel” doesn&rs...
Galvanic Gunner Background Story
  06/17/19
They always recoil in horror when confronted with the fact t...
Vibrant copper step-uncle's house mad cow disease
  06/17/19
I actually like the Japanese way of doing things. They list ...
Charismatic bistre roommate nibblets
  06/17/19
...
disgusting jewess
  06/17/19
we're not allowed to tard-shame in America. very sad
Fragrant Talking Gas Station
  06/18/19
Only thing similar to this was when they posted who made ath...
Charismatic bistre roommate nibblets
  06/18/19
Why can't we all be above average drivers?
Boyish Travel Guidebook Headpube
  06/17/19
or all have perfect credit scores?
gaped fiercely-loyal boistinker
  06/17/19
Reader comment: "MWR NYJune 16 This line is myster...
gaped fiercely-loyal boistinker
  06/17/19
...
disgusting jewess
  06/17/19
...
lake irate chad
  06/17/19
Lol jfc
stimulating personal credit line
  06/17/19
That line outed the author’s, shall we say, “rel...
trip apoplectic pit
  06/17/19
didnt you read the last line? he seems to be implying that b...
Boyish Travel Guidebook Headpube
  06/18/19
I think that by "that line," the quotemo meant the...
razzmatazz striped hyena
  06/18/19
...
trip apoplectic pit
  06/18/19
...
swashbuckling garnet crotch point
  06/17/19
...
Vibrant copper step-uncle's house mad cow disease
  06/17/19
...
vigorous box office
  06/17/19
...
Laughsome puce idiot
  06/18/19
Das raycis
low-t multi-colored doctorate temple
  06/18/19
(DBG)
swashbuckling garnet crotch point
  06/17/19
...
Laughsome puce idiot
  06/18/19
we are a nation in steep decline
Fragrant Talking Gas Station
  06/18/19
...
aphrodisiac house
  06/18/19
you’ve got to give the nyt credit for sticking to thei...
lime deep school circlehead
  06/18/19
Education used to be structured aspirationally. It was okay...
Curious hospital
  06/18/19
...
provocative bright lettuce
  06/18/19


Poast new message in this thread



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Date: June 17th, 2019 7:56 PM
Author: soul-stirring lemon incel shrine

Why Can’t Everyone Get A’s?

Excellence is not a zero sum game.

For a generation now, school reform has meant top-down mandates for what students must be taught, enforced by high-stakes standardized tests and justified by macho rhetoric — “rigor,” “raising the bar,” “tougher standards.”

Here’s a thought experiment. Suppose that next year virtually every student passed the tests. What would the reaction be from politicians, businesspeople, the media? Would these people shake their heads in admiration and say, “Damn, those teachers must be good!”?

Of course not. Such remarkable success would be cited as evidence that the tests were too easy. In the real world, when scores have improved sharply, this has indeed been the reaction. For example, when results on New York’s math exam rose in 2009, the chancellor of the state’s Board of Regents said, “What today’s scores tell me is not that we should be celebrating,” but instead “that New York State needs to raise its standards.”

The inescapable, and deeply disturbing, implication is that “high standards” really means “standards that all students will never be able to meet.” If everyone did meet them, the standards would just be ratcheted up again — as high as necessary to ensure that some students failed.

The standards-and-accountability movement is not about leaving no child behind. To the contrary, it is an elaborate sorting device, intended to separate wheat from chaff. The fact that students of color, students from low-income families and students whose first language isn’t English are disproportionately defined as chaff makes the whole enterprise even more insidious.

But my little thought experiment uncovers a truth that extends well beyond what has been done to our schools in the name of “raising the bar.” We have been taught to respond with suspicion whenever all members of any group are successful. That’s true even when we have no reason to believe that corners have been cut. In America, excellence is regarded as a scarce commodity. Success doesn’t count unless it is attained by only a few.

One way to ensure this outcome is to evaluate people (or schools, or companies, or countries) relative to one another. That way, even if everyone has done quite well, or improved over time, half will always fall below the median — and look like failures.

Consider widespread complaints about a supposed epidemic of “grade inflation” in higher education, a claim often accompanied by indignant expostulations about young people’s sense of entitlement. The reality is that even if more students today really are getting A’s — arguably a dubious claim if we look at transcript data rather than self-reports, by the way — that doesn’t prove these grades are inflated.

But here’s the key point: Many critics don’t even bother to assert that grades have risen over time or are undeserved. They simply point to how many students (in a given class or school) get A’s right now, as if a sufficiently high number was objectionable on its face.

The goal, in other words, isn’t to do well but to defeat other people who are also trying to do well. Grades in this view should be used to announce who’s beating whom. And if the students in question have already been sorted by the admissions process, well, they ought to be sorted again. A school’s ultimate mission, apparently, is not to help everyone learn but to rig the game so that there will always be losers.

This makes no sense in any context. Perhaps, for example, we can justify rating states or nations based on the quality of their air, health care or schools, but ranking them is foolish. Relative performance tells us nothing of interest because all of them may be shamefully low — or impressively high — on whatever measure we’re using. Comparative success just gives the winner bragging rights (“We’re No. 1!”). And again, it creates the misleading impression of inevitable, permanent failure for some.

But boy, do we love to rank. Worse, we create artificial scarcity by giving out awards — distinctions manufactured out of thin air specifically so that some cannot get them.

Framing excellence in these competitive terms doesn’t lead to improvements in performance. Indeed, a consistent body of social science research shows that competition tends to hold us back from doing our best. It creates an adversarial mentality that makes productive collaboration less likely, encourages gaming of the system and leads all concerned to focus not on meaningful improvement but on trying to outdo (and perhaps undermine) everyone else.

Most of all, it encourages the false belief that excellence is a zero-sum game. It would be both more sensible and more democratic to rescue the essence of the concept: Everyone may not succeed, but at least in theory all of us could.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/15/opinion/sunday/schools-testing-ranking.html

The logic is irresistible.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402575)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 17th, 2019 7:58 PM
Author: Boyish Travel Guidebook Headpube

by (((Alfie Kohn)))

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402582)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 18th, 2019 11:56 AM
Author: Overrated maize goal in life associate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38405345)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 7:58 PM
Author: lake irate chad



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402581)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 7:59 PM
Author: gaped fiercely-loyal boistinker

jesus christ libs.

it's almost as if "standards" don't exist in a vacuum. weird.

but the lib mantra is: EVERYONE MUST BE EXACTLY THE SAME IN ALL THINGS.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402583)



Reply Favorite

Date: June 18th, 2019 1:46 AM
Author: Canary preventive strike scourge upon the earth



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38403986)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 8:01 PM
Author: Charismatic bistre roommate nibblets

false belief that excellence is a zero-sum game

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402586)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 9:01 PM
Author: Galvanic Gunner Background Story

It’s almost like the word “excel” doesn’t indicate one person exceeding another’s accomplishments

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402893)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 8:02 PM
Author: Vibrant copper step-uncle's house mad cow disease

They always recoil in horror when confronted with the fact that nigs are genetically low iq

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402592)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 8:05 PM
Author: Charismatic bistre roommate nibblets

I actually like the Japanese way of doing things. They list you on a wall from top student to lowest student. You and every body else know exactly where you are rank. May have slacked off a little less in that situation.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402597)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 8:13 PM
Author: disgusting jewess



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402643)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 2:05 AM
Author: Fragrant Talking Gas Station

we're not allowed to tard-shame in America. very sad

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38404015)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 11:44 AM
Author: Charismatic bistre roommate nibblets

Only thing similar to this was when they posted who made athletic teams. Coach would post a list outside the locker room and kids would be in tears...

Honestly wouldn't mind a relegation system. Enough bad grades and you get dropped from high honors. Then enough food grades then you get bumped up a tier.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38405282)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 8:06 PM
Author: Boyish Travel Guidebook Headpube

Why can't we all be above average drivers?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402600)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 8:09 PM
Author: gaped fiercely-loyal boistinker

or all have perfect credit scores?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402615)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 8:11 PM
Author: gaped fiercely-loyal boistinker

Reader comment:

"MWR NYJune 16

This line is mysterious: “We have been taught to respond with suspicion whenever all members of any group are successful.” I volunteer for a NFP community organization that awards modest college scholarships to students who graduate from city public schools. The scholarships are awarded on merit - grades and GPA, mostly. In recent years, the scholarships are increasingly, overwhelmingly, being awarded to Asian refugees who fit the stereotype, fair or not, of hard-working, disciplined, deferred reward, family-oriented Asian students. Mostly at the expense of black students who are a majority in the district. It’s very noticeable, but mostly it’s tragic. Tragic not because of any suspicion that the process is rigged in favor of the refugee newcomers. No, it’s tragic because we know that it isn’t."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402629)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 8:14 PM
Author: disgusting jewess



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402648)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 8:15 PM
Author: lake irate chad



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402653)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 8:17 PM
Author: stimulating personal credit line

Lol jfc

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402664)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 8:17 PM
Author: trip apoplectic pit

That line outed the author’s, shall we say, “religion” beyond a reasonable doubt

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402665)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 2:04 AM
Author: Boyish Travel Guidebook Headpube

didnt you read the last line? he seems to be implying that blacks are in fact dumber

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38404011)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 2:37 AM
Author: razzmatazz striped hyena

I think that by "that line," the quotemo meant the line in the article that the NYT commenter called mysterious.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38404076)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 2:40 PM
Author: trip apoplectic pit



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38406215)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 9:12 PM
Author: swashbuckling garnet crotch point



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402937)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 9:12 PM
Author: Vibrant copper step-uncle's house mad cow disease



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402938)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 9:42 PM
Author: vigorous box office



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38403061)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 2:51 AM
Author: Laughsome puce idiot



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38404102)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 11:49 AM
Author: low-t multi-colored doctorate temple

Das raycis

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38405305)



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Date: June 17th, 2019 9:01 PM
Author: swashbuckling garnet crotch point

(DBG)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38402897)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 2:51 AM
Author: Laughsome puce idiot



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38404101)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 2:07 AM
Author: Fragrant Talking Gas Station

we are a nation in steep decline

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38404025)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 11:40 AM
Author: aphrodisiac house



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38405253)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 11:44 AM
Author: lime deep school circlehead

you’ve got to give the nyt credit for sticking to their principles and hiring total retards to write op-eds.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38405278)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 2:49 PM
Author: Curious hospital

Education used to be structured aspirationally. It was okay to rank people because living was perceived as an exercise in human development, and there was little shame in having room to develop. Since its origin, education has become a ranking and elimination mechanism employed in large part by commerce, but secondarily by society, to negate the worth of those who measure poorly. So while the logic of this article is thoroughly nonexistent, one can sympathize with the impulse that led to its writing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38406259)



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Date: June 18th, 2019 3:16 PM
Author: provocative bright lettuce



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=4284873&forum_id=2#38406349)