Verizon Fails at math... LOL
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Poast new message in this thread
Date: December 9th, 2006 7:48 PM Author: sepia motley ape
http://verizonfails.ytmnd.com/
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7180853) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 8:51 PM Author: Electric Chocolate Theater Stage
The youtube is long, but hilarious.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181410) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 8:55 PM Author: burgundy range black woman
agreed, i'm listening now...
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181449)
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:00 PM Author: burgundy range black woman
wow... just wow. Do they stricly hire idiots?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181491) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 9:01 PM Author: bateful french principal's office
summary for those of us studying for finals?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181506)
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:04 PM Author: burgundy range black woman
This sounds like a nice formula for a class action
Verizon quotes its customers .002 cents
Verizon charges its customers .002 dollars
Customers pay little in large numbers, they don't notice/care
Lawyer steps in, sues verizon for overcharging customers
Average affected customer gets $.15
Lawyer gets 30% of settlement
Lawyer gets a new car!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181540) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 9:09 PM Author: Geriatric indecent stead pervert
he should have known that the rate was wrong. 0.002 cents is so low no reasonable person could think it was right
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181603) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 9:10 PM Author: Titillating crotch
Does he have any proof as to what he was quoted other than his word and his word that the 1st rep SAID she was documenting his account?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181609) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:11 PM Author: burgundy range black woman
yea, the mp3 has several people quoting him .002 CENTS, also one supervisor rep sound like he's reading from a manual or contract and on the manual it state .002 cents
also seems like its on his account, someone 'noted' it.
EDIT: what i'm trying to say is, yes. sounds like there is a manual somewhere bc a rep read straight from it and said .002 cents.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181624) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:16 PM Author: burgundy range black woman
excellent observation dood!
your point?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181683) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:23 PM Author: burgundy range black woman
except for the recording on his blog that has verizon reps confirming that the price is .002 cents that he was given was correct (for christ's sake they *insist* on saying .002 cents per kb). And my point about the fact that one of the reps sounds like he's reading off a manual when he states "...in canada the rate is.. yea yea its .002 cents" is that a lawyer would probably be able to get his hands on that manual.
So uh, yea actually there is another way of knowning what he was actually quoted.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181753) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:28 PM Author: Titillating crotch
They're likely reading wrong from the manual, I'd think. That they confirmed AFTER he incurred the charges doesn't tell us what he was QUOTED BEFORE he incurred the charges. It's probably a pretty good inference that the rep who quoted him the price was as dumb as all the other reps, but he has no PROOF!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181795)
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:37 PM Author: Titillating crotch
You are correct. The people writing the manuals may very well be just as stupid.
Regardless, there's still no proof of what he was quoted before he made the calls.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181882) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:39 PM Author: burgundy range black woman
unless the note made on his account by the first rep he spoke to states .002 cents.
otherwise you're right it would be hard to prove what exactly he was quoted, but I wouldn't say that would be end of the matter.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181911) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:47 PM Author: Titillating crotch
"if your last argument is that the rep had no clue was 002c v. $.002 is, then that goes to show that the caller is telling the truth. "
That's one inference. Another inference is he knew exactly what was going on and was trying to capitalize on their stupidity. While your inference may be the better of the inferences, there's still no proof other than his word.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181980) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:04 PM Author: Floppy hall volcanic crater
capitalize on their stupidity?
they repeatedly quote him a rate of .002 cents/kB, I don't see why it's a problem that he expects to pay this rate and not 100 fold this rate.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182115)
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:42 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
theme: legitimate confusion.
claim: if legitimate confusion, not egregious (or whatever the statutory standard is).
without knowing what the standard is, i can't say much more about it.
however, i do think verizon deserves to get fucked. they are failing at one of the precise things they shouldn't be failing at. what sort of company hires people to handle billing who can't even comprehend the bill? verizon failed to properly train its staff. verizon failed to hire good workers.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182548) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:56 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
i'd go with confusion or contrition. once it comes out that they were trying to charge him 100x as much, BIG BAD COMPANY isn't going to look very sympathetic.
furthermore, the scam artist tactic will hurt them outside of the court case. confusion and contrition will not hurt them as much.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182683) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:52 PM Author: Titillating crotch
Yes, I think you can infer that he's telling the truth, but I think you can also infer -- given the lack of direct proof -- that he's trying to pull a fast one.
Juries aren't going to understand .002c vs. $.002. They'll listen to the recording and be just as confused as the idiotic verizon reps and will render a verdict based on whether the guy came off as likable. He probably will come off as a douche and they may stiff him. I don't think a judge could throw out a jury verdict going either way at JMOL.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182021)
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:03 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
a simple chart would very easily show the math. draw two columns. at the top write one rate in each column. lay out the math. the bill amount will be at the bottom. all the jury has to decide is whether they said cents or dollars.
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/9836/verizonrateszy0.gif
and once they show the multiple written logs showing cents, it's easy for the jury to pick the right column.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182111)
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:11 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
i don't think it would. the issue isn't really math. the issue is really the word "dollars" versus the word "cents."
how they frame it: if they said "cents," the bill must be 70 cents. if they said "dollars," the bill must be 70 dollars.
it's no more complicated than that.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182189)
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:06 PM Author: swashbuckling mental disorder
"Juries aren't going to understand .002c vs. $.002. They'll listen to the recording and be just as confused as the idiotic verizon reps"
Hahahaha, I'm actually in physical pain after reading this post. You have really taken it to a whole different level now. I bet you actual believe this and that it comforts you in your insipid, TTT station in life.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182139) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:35 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
verizon *agrees* that it quoted 0.002 cents.
down and dirty version --
guy: "you said you quoted me 0.002 cents."
verizon: "that's right."
guy: "you messed up when you calculated my bill."
verizon: "no, we didn't."
issue: calculation, not interpretation of the offer.
the only issue is computation. there is no interpretation in computation. it's mechanistic.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182467) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:39 PM Author: Titillating crotch
What do you mean by "agrees"?
Is it a reformation to whatever contract they had before? No, because there was no intent to reform any contract; verizon rep was just saying what understood him to have been quoted.
It's a binding admission from an evidentiary standpoint? No way.
Then what?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182513) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:48 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
"What do you mean by "agrees"?"
they explicitly say the monetary unit used per unit of data is "cents." when he asks if it says "0.002 cents," they say "yes."
"verizon rep was just saying what understood him to have been quoted."
every rep said the same thing.
"It's a binding admission from an evidentiary standpoint?"
three words: independent legal significance. we don't need to worry about your attempt to shoe horn this into some sort of hearsay doctrine.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182605) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:18 PM Author: bateful french principal's office
yeah, because a corporations pricing structure will change within a few days.
it's a good thing "2nd year litigators" are stuck doing discovery and not actually arguing anything before a court.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181696)
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:32 PM Author: bateful french principal's office
put yourself in the place of a judge or juror: 4 operators quote the price after he incurred the charges; he claims he was quoted that price before he accepted the service and also has a reasonable reason for being conerned whether it was .002 dollars or cents.
now, which conclusion do you think is more likely: (1) that verizon originally quoted him .002 dollars and then a few days later changed their price to .002 cents OR (2) that they are a bunch of fuck ups? personally, i'd go with theory (1).
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181831) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:56 PM Author: Titillating crotch
No, they didn't change anything. This is what may have happened:
The rep who gave the quote may have said the correct price but documented the incorrect price in the system. And when he called a few days later, all the other morons read the wrong price.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182056) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:54 PM Author: Titillating crotch
"the 0.002 cents quote seems to have been offered and accepted orally and in writing."
What's your basis for saying this?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182034) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:22 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
- multiple notes (assume it matches their reading, we don't have xoxo discovery)
- oral evidence confirms the written artifact
AND
- if there's not a prohibition on oral modifications, they quote cents in the audio. if i remember correctly, the verizon people only mention dollars in relation to the calculation. but the issue is the quoted offer.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182291) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:14 PM Author: Titillating crotch
Notes aren't reliable as I stated above.
There cannot be an oral modification. Neither party understood there to be any modification of the contract after the calls were made. The verizon rep thought she was stating the previously price, not agreeing to a different price.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182875) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:19 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
you don't know there can't be an oral modification. i formed a new contract with my cell phone company over the phone.
you can argue reliability and get anywhere without a positive vision of what *is* reliable. how can the bill be reliable? how can the bill be taken as a representation of the guy's obligation to pay verizon?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182913) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:24 PM Author: Titillating crotch
You heard the call that you are suggesting might be an oral modification. Where is there intent by either party to MODIFY the price. They're discussing that the price should be and/or what he was told.
You make an interesting point re: the bill. The same idiots may be writing the bill ;)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182968) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:35 PM Author: Titillating crotch
You're confusing issues. Lets call the call before he did the usage call #1. Lets call the call after he made the usage (where the rep said what was in the notes) call #2.
If they agreed on $.002 during call #1, then there could be no contract modification when the rep in call #2 said that he was quoted .002c and said that the rate was .002c. There was simply no intent by either party to modify the price of call #1.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183069) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:43 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
supervisor: "i'm going by what they documented here in the system."
looks like the oral part doesn't matter. i hadn't gotten that far when i posted before.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181947) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:44 PM Author: Titillating crotch
Posted earlier:
"Yeah, the note would definitely help. But even then, the note is so unreliable as proof of what he was TOLD given that the rep who made the note probably had no fucking clue what .002c vs. $.002 was."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181961) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:52 PM Author: Titillating crotch
"And we do know what the person wrote, because they repeat it back on the recording."
Again, you falsely assume that the rep -- a rep who admittedly doesn't understand .002c from .002dollars -- read the note properly when she purported to state what was in the note.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182648) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:18 PM Author: Exhilarant water buffalo
You've toned your argument down a lot from where you started (two hours ago), when you thought he had no claim. Unfortunately for you, the evidence of your original position still remains.
--
Date: December 9th, 2006 9:25 PM
Author: 2nd Year Biglaw Litigator
How the fuck is he going to claim he was PROMISED .002 cents when his only recording is AFTER he incurred the usage? What you said has nothing to do with anything.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181766)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182909)
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:31 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
"I still maintain that he has nothing to prove that he was promised .002 cents."
verizon concedes that fact.
*********************
*********************
question: at what point does *verizon* claim the rate to be anything other than 0.002 cents?
*********************
*********************
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183043) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:48 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
subsequent to the initial call, all parties agree that the rate previously quoted was 0.002 cents. in absense of evidence to the contrary, that is the rate.
can you identify any evidence to the contrary?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183156) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:03 AM Author: Exhilarant water buffalo
And that extremely weak argument is easily trumped by the evidence that Verizon employees, including supervisors, routinely misstate the rate as ".002 cents."
It doesn't help your argument that even after having the math explained to them, the employees (including supervisors) continue to insist that the rate is ".002 cents."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183261) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:07 AM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
all evidence says cents.
no evidence says dollars.
guy claims cents.
verizon claims cents.
guy wins motion for summary judgment.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183284) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:17 AM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
"There's no evidence of the call."
notes are evidence. subsequent speech is evidence.
"There's a set of facts/inferences..."
THAT'S WHAT EVIDENCE ***IS***.
no evidence says dollars.
all evidence says cents.
guy claims cents.
verizon agrees with cents.
no genuine issue of material fact. motion for summary judgment goes to guy.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183364) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:30 AM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
"I should have said there's no reliable evidence of the call."
are you high? everyone agrees that the call happened. everyone agrees that it says cents. there's no dispute.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183457) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:08 AM Author: Exhilarant water buffalo
The first use of "evidence" was a typo. I edited before you posted.
The customer has an easy case, and the evidence we have already seen is more than sufficient to meet his preponderance burden.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183291) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:06 AM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
"the rep after the initial call mistakenly stated the rate"
where's the evidence?
"the agent misinterpreted the rate previously quoted and didn't know it."
where's the evidence?
why did all parties agree in the audio recording that the rate is in cents?
why did no party dispute that the rate is in cents?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183278) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:16 AM Author: Titillating crotch
I'm stating vzw's theory of the the case; they don't need to prove those facts that you're asking for evidence on.
Verizon isn't precluded from claiming the rate is 0.002$ in litigation because its idiotic reps who he spoke to after the data usage were uninformed.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183357) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:43 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
"Verizon's defense is that the rate is $.002"
where do they claim that?
"he was correctly told on the phone before he incurred the charges."
where's the evidence of that?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183124) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:50 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
"it's his burden to prove that he was told .002c."
he has 27 minutes of evidence. verizon never disputes the rate. they dispute the calculation.
game over for verizon unless the have evidence to the contrary.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183166) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:52 PM Author: marvelous faggot firefighter immigrant
Cut your losses, homie.
Evidence is that which has any tendency to make more or less likely the existence of a material fact.
His testimony that he was quoted in cents and the notations in his account log that he was quoted in cents are evidence that he was quoted in cents.
HTH.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183186) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:03 AM Author: marvelous faggot firefighter immigrant
A jury COULD disregard evidence, but that doesn't mean it will. So all your bullshit about him not having "direct" proof disappears. Also a court certainly cannot make judgments as to the weight of the evidence and throw out evidence it thinks is unreliable, unless the evidence is unreliable as a matter of law (i.e., unqualified expert testimony, hearsay, etc.).
HTFH.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183262) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:10 AM Author: Titillating crotch
I've repeatedly said that the jury is more likely to make inferences favoring the customer, unless they hate the guy. I'm establishing a theory of the case for verizon whereby the jury can disregard incredible evidence and find that there's no proof of a price quote of .002c before the data usage.
The court could throw it out under 403 (confusing/misleading), but it's unlikely they would.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183304) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:53 PM Author: Exhilarant water buffalo
You haven't listened to the recording, so you ignore the weight of the evidence against you.
I sincerely hope you act more thoughtfully if you ever represent a real client.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183196) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:45 PM Author: Pale appetizing dog poop hairy legs
"looks like the oral part doesn't matter"
have you taken K's?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181965) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:54 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
my original background assumption: the terms of the original contract prohibit oral modifactions. and that's permissible as a matter of contract law.
the revelation: the oral agreement, regardless of whether it was permitted as a modification under the original contract, was also made in writing. therefore, my original background assumption becomes irrelevant.
yes, i've taken contracts.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182033) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:52 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
if oral modification is permissible: he will win a k action. and he can still win on reliance.
if oral modification is impermissible: he will win a k action. and he can still win on reliance.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182640)
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:25 PM Author: rose jap market
He said he was quoted 0.002 cents, and the manager confirms this as he reads it off of some manual later in the call.
The caller is being an asshole, but it's ridiculous how friggin' stupid these Verizon reps are. It's funny, because I tried to get a job at Comcast at some point in the past as a customer service rep at a call center and was rejected. And yet these monkeys can't even distinguish between 0.002 dollars and 0.002 cents.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181769) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:32 PM Author: Pale appetizing dog poop hairy legs
no, the manuel does NOT say 0.002 cents.
The manual likely says "$0.002" and the idiots read that as "0.002 cents" because they are retards.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181835) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:31 PM Author: burgundy range black woman
Your writing STYLE sounds a LOT like the EMAIL one of xoxo POSTERS got earlier from a CRAIGSLIST white GUY ranting about not getting MIDDLE eastern PUSSY.
FAGGOT.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181825) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:53 PM Author: burgundy range black woman
Wrong.
As you stated above, if he was to take this to trial, and for some reason they didn't settle, a jury is just as likely to infer that he was quoted and relied on .002 cents. They could also infer that he wasn't quoted that money, and is just a crafty jew type.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182026) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:16 PM Author: Pale appetizing dog poop hairy legs
"Here, the surrounding evidence isn't that great for him."
Actually, the surrounding evidence is fucking fantastic for him, and for some strange reason you are the only one that doesn't see that.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182228) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:12 AM Author: Exhilarant water buffalo
There's a reason nobody agrees with you. It's because your argument is ridiculous. You haven't even listened to the recording that you're arguing about.
And if you can't take the occasional personal attack, you really shouldn't post here. This place can hurt your feelings.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183323) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:21 AM Author: Titillating crotch
I've listened to it, for chrissake. I'm not offended and can take the personal attack; I'm submitting that the personal attacks reflect your inability to argue with me.
And since when is consensus on this board reflective of something being correct? As you know, this board is filled with morons.
I've admitted that the customer has the better of the arguments and is likely to win unless the jury hates him. I'm merely pointing out the problems he'll have with proving his case and how he could potentially lose.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183388) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:24 AM Author: Exhilarant water buffalo
You've suggested that the facts are not very favorable for the customer, which they are. You have also implied that Verizon's supposed argument (which you invented out of whole cloth) is reasonable, which it's not.
I don't think anyone's denying that THEORETICALLY a judge and jury could hate the customer and ignore the law, leading to a result in favor of Verizon. It could happen in an academic sense. But it wouldn't happen in reality.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183405) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:31 AM Author: Titillating crotch
I've suggested repeatedly that the customer has the better of the inferences, while still maintaining that there's no direct proof (which is undoubtedly true). Most litigation positions "invented out of whole cloth" to make the best story that makes sense and has some hope of winning.
Juries weigh evidence and decide whether testimony is credible. He's going to go up and testify that he was quoted in dollars, and their job is to decide whether to believe him, and they could very well hate him and not believe him. That's what happens in real life, my friend. Juries operate on emotion and feeling.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183461) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:50 AM Author: Exhilarant water buffalo
Yes, juries operate on emotion. And emotion is just as good for the customer as the facts are. Anyone who listens to that tape will feel immense sympathy for the customer, and feel strongly that Verizon is staffed by douchebags.
Even if a jury was full of people as mathematically uninformed as the Verizon employees, all they would need is a brief explanation of how the math works before they heard the tape.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183623) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:10 PM Author: Titillating crotch
I said I think he has the better of the inferences. But I also said that he has no direct proof of what he was quoted. He therefore has to rely on inferences, and inferences could go the other way if the jury really hates the guy.
As for oral contracts being documented with a recording, that's why many companies record all their calls "for quality control purposes."
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182828) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 9:12 PM Author: swashbuckling mental disorder
"if you look at it on-paper-wise."
Loflsss...
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181635) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:18 PM Author: burgundy range black woman
"seems like its a difference of opinions"
"NO, its a difference of understanding math"
LOL
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181704) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 9:17 PM Author: fragrant indirect expression crackhouse
Question. Who would you rather hang out with, the caller or the Verizon people?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181695) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 9:35 PM Author: Geriatric indecent stead pervert
lmao
good work on pwning people in this thread
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7181860) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 10:10 PM Author: flatulent gunner
this is amazing, i'm about halfway through
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182173) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 10:13 PM Author: flatulent gunner
it's like trying to split a bill six ways with you and 5 umdbluedevils
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182204) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 10:15 PM Author: Pale appetizing dog poop hairy legs
A+
I would have said "with 5 ursulas" as she would refuse to pay her portion of the bill because of a racist waiter.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182220) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 10:18 PM Author: Fear-inspiring trip sneaky criminal
I don't know, I'm not a mathematician!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182249) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 10:20 PM Author: flatulent gunner
why didn't he just explain that .002cents = $.00002?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182266) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 10:23 PM Author: Exhilarant water buffalo
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182313) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 10:41 PM Author: transparent tripping sandwich
"i've been a supervisor here for almost a year and a half."
i have a feeling this cuts the other way.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182530) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 10:45 PM Author: Fear-inspiring trip sneaky criminal
I'm currently dating a VZN executive. Her tits got all perky when she realized that I'm 64" (= 6'4") tall.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182581) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 10:54 PM Author: Big soggy clown
I bet his account notes read "customer quoted at $0.002" and it was the same oral interpretative mistake made every time on the phone.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182662) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:42 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
there doesn't have to be "direct evidence." you're fabricating legal standards and doctrine out of whole cloth.
evidence of the agreement after the agreement is sufficient. example: people write a contract. the physical contract artifact is destroyed. people subsequently reaffirm their contract. the original contract is still valid.
contracts aren't paper. contracts aren't speech. those things are merely evidence of contracts.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183111) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:53 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
you have no evidence to the contrary.
none.
zero.
zip.
zilch.
nada.
he has evidence. some evidence always beats no evidence when the standard is a PREPONDERANCE of the evidence. 100% versus 0% easily meets that. and that's particularly true when verizon doesn't even make a contrary claim.
so let's get this straight.
there's no evidence that verizon ever claimed they quoted him 0.002 dollars. in the subsequent call verizon doesn't even claim they said that.
there is evidence that verizon claimed they quoted him 0.002 cents. both the caller and verizon agree that 0.002 cents is the appropriate rate.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183193) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:00 AM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
with the evidence we have, verizon wouldn't even survive summary judgment. there's no issue of material fact.
verizon never claims the rate is in dollars. there is no evidence that the rate should have been in dollars.
the guy claims the rate is in cents. verizon agrees that the rate is in cents. there is evidence suggesting that rate is in cents.
the only issue on the evidence we have is one of computation.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183235) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 11:14 PM Author: mauve state
you think the dumbasses at verizon who were on this tape figured out their error or were told about it?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182869) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:22 PM Author: Big soggy clown
Thing is, I'm sure that there are customers out there who are stupider than the Verizon reps. I imagine they get some great conversations with people who think there are 100 minutes in an hour.
So in this case they were probably able to walk away thinking they're 100% right (after all, a *computer* made those calculations!) and they just had to deal with another asshole customer who couldn't even understand that $0.02 = two cents.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7182943) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 11:36 PM Author: curious genital piercing new version
This rep deserves to have his face shoved in a woodchipper.
No one should be allowed to be this stupid unless they are Russian.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183076) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 11:37 PM Author: flirting therapy
You are all retarded for arguing about this. Not quite as retarded as the verizon people, but still retarded. Verizon sent a schedule of fees when he signed up for the service. This is his contract. He had a duty to read it. I assume it has the correct price. The people he was speaking to over the phone cant change the price. he knew that and it was not reasonable for him to rely on the modification.
That said, its not worth the 20 minutes the guy spent on the phone with all these reps. They should just give him the money and tell all their reps the difference between a dollar and a penny.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183088) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:08 AM Author: marvelous faggot firefighter immigrant
This is correct. Similarly, if a moron lawyer decides to grab one too many secretarial tits one too many times, his firm will be picking up the tab on the judgment. Similarly, if you walk into a Mercedes dealership and a dipshit salesman sells you one without authorization for $20,000 off the sticker price, Mercedes will be unable to come repossess your car.
It's pretty sweet. I think you should get a job as a secretary and keep trying to get lawyers to grab your tits until you get a really dumb one who does. You should also keep going into car dealerships until a really dumb salesman offers you a really good deal.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183294) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:36 AM Author: flirting therapy
"imilarly, if a moron lawyer decides to grab one too many secretarial tits one too many times, his firm will be picking up the tab on the judgment."
we are not talking about vicarious liability in tort, well unless you are arguing there was an intentional misrepresentation about the pricing when he originally signed up
"Similarly, if you walk into a Mercedes dealership and a dipshit salesman sells you one without authorization for $20,000 off the sticker price, Mercedes will be unable to come repossess your car."
also wrong. see restatement of restitution sec 12 comment c, illustration 8
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183502) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:11 AM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
"do you think the call center rep has any authority to make a modification?"
yes. they modify plans all the time.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183318) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:46 PM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
"This is his contract."
unless it was modified.
"The people he was speaking to over the phone cant change the price."
why not? people on the phone have changed my cell phone service. t-mobile changed my contract from 1000 minutes per month to 1500 minutes per month over the phone.
"he knew that and it was not reasonable for him to rely on the modification."
they seem to have confirmed multiple times from multiple people that the rate is 0.002 cents.
can you identify where verizon ever claims it was 0.002 dollars?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183145) |
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:53 PM Author: flirting therapy
uh, when you change your plan from 1000 to 1500 you get new pricing, i bet they send you a new schedule of fees. this is a new contract or agreement. the plans and the pricing are all available on their website. he didnt change anything in his plan, he just asked the price and the retarded phone rep said the wrong thing. if a verizon rep said the price was .2 dollars and the dude said ok would that be the new price?
i am sure that someone from verizon will eventually have a brain and give him a refund but there is no way a rep on the phone can change the pricing of verizon.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183194) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:10 AM Author: offensive codepig cuckold
"when you change your plan from 1000 to 1500 you get new pricing, i bet they send you a new schedule of fees."
never got one. never had to confirm that i got one. i called them. i said, "if you don't give me 500 more minutes per month, i'm leaving." they said, "we will give you 500 more minutes per month if you will stay for another year." i said, "that's fine." they said, "thanks for calling t-mobile." i pay my bill.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183308)
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:38 PM Author: marvelous faggot firefighter immigrant
I guess I'm coming in late on this little gem, but I just have to note that 2ndyearlitigator's (legal) idiocy on this thread is like some kind of poetic reprise of Verizon's (mathematical) idiocy.
1. George's bare testimony that he was quoted in cents would be enough to meet his burden of production.
2. A written notation need not "necessarily" (i.e., beyond any doubt at all) reflect an oral quote. It's pretty fucking probative though.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183094) |
Date: December 9th, 2006 11:52 PM Author: curious genital piercing new version
This is unbelievable.
I honestly don't think these people should be allowed to live.
I mean, the company's mistake may be honest and I understand that. But the fact that the people with shitty college business degrees can't even understand what his complaint is? Impossible. They should be raped to death.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183183)
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Date: December 9th, 2006 11:55 PM Author: Vengeful Site Mexican
This thread gets a "B"!
(That's the highest grade a 3L can expect to get. Kudos!)
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183211) |
Date: December 10th, 2006 12:09 AM Author: buck-toothed stimulating selfie idiot
http://xkcd.com/verizon/
WHAT NOW BITCHES!
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183296) |
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Date: December 10th, 2006 12:12 AM Author: marvelous faggot firefighter immigrant
Nice.
But why did you leave the name?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183329) |
Date: December 10th, 2006 12:47 AM Author: Fear-inspiring trip sneaky criminal
In accord with the official VZN policy that dollars = cents, people should start paying 1/100 of their bills.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183595) |
Date: December 10th, 2006 12:57 AM Author: hairless violent church foreskin
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7183671) |
Date: December 19th, 2006 10:13 PM Author: razzle pisswyrm
Dear Mike McDougal,
Thank you for bringing your concern to our attention. Verizon Wireless is committed to delivering the best service to our customers. Please be assured that appropriate action is being taken, and that we will continue to provide training to all of our employees.
Data charges reflected on Verizon Wireless billing statements are correct. Our charges for data are as follows:
Pay As You Go Rate
o 1.5 cents per Kilobyte (0.015 dollars per KB)
o 1024 Kilobytes (KB) is equal to 1 Megabyte (MB)
Canadian Data Roaming Rate
o .002 dollars per Kilobyte
o Equal to .2 cents per Kilobyte
It has been a pleasure assisting you today, and we appreciate your business. Should you have additional questions or concerns, please reply to this e-mail.
Sincerely,
Jennifer
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service
"We never stop working for you!"
If you have received this e-mail in error or are not the intended recipient, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail and deleting it and all copies and backups thereof. If you are the intended recipient and are a Verizon Wireless customer, this response is subject to the terms of your Customer Agreement.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=542748&forum_id=2#7261751)
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