what was the "logic" for invading Vietnam when the U.S. could have invaded cuba?
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Date: April 25th, 2024 4:32 PM Author: Azure adventurous roommate
the whole reason we can do globohomo proxy wars is because the american people are isolated from the destruction somewhat. with cuba it would have been too close to home. also russia would have a stronger incentive to intervene directly to maintain a communist foothold close to the us.
also we tried to slow walk into cuba just like vietnam with the bay of pigs. to avoid it being seen as an invasion we need to create a series of events that make it look like the other side is the aggressor and we're defending the people of the country. see e.g. ukraine.
the cuban revolution happened too quickly and it was too popular amongst the cubans. we tried to get in but we flubbed it. and we didn't have a sizeable population of cubans who wanted westernize still in cuba, so we couldn't pretend we were invading for humanitarian reasons. so we settled on "invading" them through intrigue and economics.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5521491&forum_id=2#47609645) |
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Date: April 25th, 2024 4:38 PM Author: laughsome doctorate
I take a more conspiratorial view to Vietnam. I see the war as being *deliberately* made unwinnable and tens of thousands of lives deliberately sacrificed to further our central bank owner's larger goals. Norman Dodd stated that while investigating tax exempt foundations he interviewed H. Rowan Gaither, president of the Ford Foundation. Gaither explained to Dodd, “Most of us here were, at one time or another, active in either the OSS or the State Dept., or the European Economic Administration. During those times, and without exception, we operated under directives issued by the White House, the substance of which was to the effect that we should make every effort to alter life in the U.S. as to make possible a comfortable merger with the Soviet Union.” In the same way, bleeding tens of thousands of U.S. dead followed by ignominious loss would severely dent U.S. patriotism and help their long-term goals for one world government...(this isn't to argue we should have been in Vietnam, we shouldn't have been).
The explanations offered ITT are really dumb, regardless of whether that was the explanation offered to the public at the time.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5521491&forum_id=2#47609662) |
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Date: April 25th, 2024 4:33 PM Author: aqua black woman dragon
WTF are you talking about schizo?
"In 1941, Hồ Chí Minh returned to Vietnam to lead the Việt Minh independence movement. The Japanese occupation of Indochina that year, the first step toward an invasion of the rest of Southeast Asia, created an opportunity for patriotic Vietnamese...."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5521491&forum_id=2#47609647) |
Date: April 25th, 2024 4:25 PM Author: laughsome doctorate
John Welsh, the founder of the John Birch Society in 1967:
"Since we are in a war, even though an undeclared war, why do we impose, or allow to be imposed, so many incredible handicaps on our men who are trying to fight it? Our bombers are regularly required to fly dangerous missions with only a small fraction of the effective bomb load they could carry. To enter North Vietnam they must fly a specified route, well known to the enemy, which makes the operation so dangerous that the pilots call this route "slaughter alley." In bombing the supply route to the Viet Cong, known as the Ho chi Minh trail, through Laos, our bombers are required to confine their attacks to targets within 204 feet from the trail itself. So the Communists, when they see American planes coming, merely pull aside until they are 205 feet from the road, and figuratively thumb their noses at the helpless American pilots....
Vietnam is almost exactly half way around the world from Washington, D.C. It would be impossible for the United States, in fighting a war, to have longer or more difficult or more costly supply lines for its troops.... While the length, size, and complexity of the supply lines will make it easy for Communist traitors at a hundred points along those lines subtly to sabotage and misdirect and confuse the equipment our boys need in the field; and to do so a great deal more extensively than in the worst of our similar experiences so far. These disadvantages to ours elves, and advantages to the Communists, would be almost overwhelming. Is this why Vietnam has been picked for the crucial battleground?
If this Administration or any Administration really and truly did want to fight the Communists and save some other nation or people, why not run the beasts out of Cuba instead of Vietnam? Cuba was really our protege nation, and for a much longer period of time than the present gang in Washington have pretended to hold South Vietnam in that esteem. Cuba is right at our doorstep, and a Communist regime there is infinitely more damaging and more dangerous to ourselves than one in South Vietnam, on the other side of the world. For a war in and over Cuba, and even if you give consideration to some nonsense about the Soviets coming into it, most of the advantages, as to supply lines and style of fighting, would be with us instead of with our enemies. Can you or anybody else name one reason why we should not be fighting the Communists, if at all, in Cuba instead of in Vietnam? Or do the powers which control Washington want us to be fighting only where we are at the greatest possible disadvantage, and where our inability to win can be made to seem plausible?"
There's a lot of other good points made strongly suggesting that the war was being fought for ulterior motives:
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+John+Birch+Society+on+Vietnam.+(Worth+Repeating).-a084313098
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5521491&forum_id=2#47609605) |
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Date: April 25th, 2024 4:47 PM Author: clear vibrant set rigor
Everything was fine until 1954:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Geneva_Conference
"It was decided that Vietnam would be divided at the 17th parallel until 1956 when democratic elections would be held under international supervision and auspices. All parties involved agreed to this (Ho Chi Minh had strong support in the north, which was more populous than the south, and was thus confident that he would win an election), except for the U.S., which, in the spirit of the Cold War, feared seeing communism spreading in a domino effect throughout Asia as written in a National Intelligence Estimate dated 3 August 1954.[7]"
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5521491&forum_id=2#47609691) |
Date: April 26th, 2024 3:21 PM Author: Wonderful Metal Associate
Not really analogous. Cuba would involve a full invasion of an island totally controlled by Communists. Vietnam was a US contingent that grew significantly over time defending a "friendly" government. That involved certain elements of attacking North Vietnam and their supporters in South Vietnam, but it didn't require a massive naval landing on enemy territory.
In any event, both were stupid ideas.
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5521491&forum_id=2#47611630) |
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Date: April 26th, 2024 5:06 PM Author: clear vibrant set rigor
Cuba also has nothing we want.
1. A shitload of those people are black.
2. We had just ditched the Philippines because US sugar and hemp producers didn't like the competition. Now we're gonna marry Cuba?
Fuck that shithold. We did the best we could. We contained it and made it non-issue. What Latin American country is saying "we want to be like Cuba?" Lmao @ sacrificing one American life for that bullshit when we can do it diplomatically?
(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5521491&forum_id=2#47611836) |
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