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Serious Q: What's the CR tax system?
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:31 AM Author: dark round eye What tax system would eliminate the need for ((((lawyers)))) and ((((accountants)))? Both on the personal income tax side and the business income tax side. A VAT? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47251786) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:49 PM Author: Pale Old Irish Cottage Brethren I thought Ben Carson’s 9% income tax, 9% sales tax and 9% corporate tax proposal was the best one in decades. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252590) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:43 PM Author: Hyperactive wrinkle alpha It really did hilariously sound like a pizza deal though. But yeah, he was right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252828) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:49 PM Author: multi-colored bespoke useless brakes 9 9 9 was not Ben Carson (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253828) |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 3:50 PM Author: Hyperactive wrinkle alpha Herman Cain. The pizza delivery exec. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47256837) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:36 PM Author: racy godawful crotch it was the other black guy (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47254488) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 9:18 PM Author: Filthy corner All look same? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47254648) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 9:53 PM Author: Thirsty Hospital Cuckoldry This was Herman Cain, retard. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47254752) |
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Date: January 7th, 2024 9:51 AM Author: Pale Old Irish Cottage Brethren My bad, I was thinking about the guy that died from Covid after the 2020 Oklahoma Trump rally. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47259075) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:20 PM Author: wine headpube gas station charging your custies a lil extra with every step of the cut (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252957) |
Date: January 5th, 2024 8:34 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete VAT + wealth tax (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47251788) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:37 AM Author: dark round eye How would the wealth tax work?
With the VAT, how do you make sure poors don’t get screwed ? |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:47 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete VAT could be adjusted based on what the product is. e.g. food no tax, yachts big tax.
when people say "how would the wealth tax work" it kind of boggles my mind since an income tax is way, way harder. how do you make sure cash businesses report everything, don't use fake invoices, etc? it seems far easier to just have $100m NWmos do an accounting of their NW every year. most already do since they need an accurate idea of their finances for lending and such. and before someone chimes in with "but how do we stop them from hiding their wealth?", well, how do we stop them from hiding their income? (well, right now we don't lol, but we certainly could). |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:19 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression wrong. wealth is far more difficult to discern than income. what if wealth is not liquid? how do you pay your wealth tax? ious? the way you determine the best tax system is first to determine what your goals are. that will lead to a quagmire of conflicting goals, conflicting opinions, and disingenuous arguments |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:27 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete yeah, what if wealth was illiquid? unlike income, which is *always* cash, right? fuck man, really pwned me here, i guess i never considered th...
*briefcase full of peter thiels formerly non-public illiquid stocks spills out of IRA briefcase completely untaxed*
you really are just some lost libertarian that has never actually worked or studied anything related to this shit, aren't you? like, you're just babbling about stuff you have no academic or real world experience in.
HIGHLY COMPENSATED PEOPLE ARE ALREADY OFTEN PAID WITH ILLIQUID THINGS, OFTEN SPECIFICALLY TO AVOID PAYING INCOME TAX |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:57 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression durr durr you are trying too hard whatever issues there are with income being illiquid, they are magnitudes worse when it comes to wealth. your last sentence, despite the histrionic capitalization, is a pretty stupid point and probably a non sequitur. illiquid things often count as income and are taxed or they are not considered taxable income by tax policy. you don't like that, change the policy. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 3:21 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete god, you really are the dumbest person here. and we actually agree on most things. people don't call you dumb because they disagree with you, it's because you lack basic reasoning skills and seem to just blather on about incorrect assumptions.
can't you see how that's completely circular reasoning?
SC: well wealth can be illiquid.
G: actually a lot of income is illiquid, that's how they get around paying income tax sometimes.
SC: well that's about tax policy, you should change the policy.
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what the FUCK is the difference between valuing an illiquid asset a person HAS (wealth) versus valuing one they receive (INCOME)?!
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also, i didn't even address your "how do you pay your wealth tax? ious?" because i just wanted to slam you on not knowing people are compensated with illiquid assets. but that is equally stupid.
they...sell it?! what do you think happens when someone when someone dies and the kids inherit a house that they have to pay estate taxes on? like, are you under the impression that most wealth is held in cash? almost all wealth is in things that are illiquid.
and before you come at me with: "what if it can't be sold?" i'd like you to first tell me exactly what type of illiquid asset you're talking about that has a determinable value but absolutely no market. and before you hit me with something like "shares of a private company with limits on who can possess it" -- don't. limits on alienability designed to thwart the law have existed since the middle ages, we know how to deal with it. what the FUCK are you talking about!?! what asset has a value that can be determined but NO purchasers?! how did that value get determined in the first place!?!! |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:11 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression durr durr wealth tax! "Back in 1990, around a dozen European countries had a wealth tax, according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. Today, only four European countries have it: Spain, Norway, Switzerland, and Belgium.
Most European governments eliminated the tax because it was problematic in design and enforcement, and France was the latest to scrap it in 2017. They often hit people with plenty of assets but little cash on hand to pay the taxman.
"They can be really difficult to administer and ensure even a moderate compliance rate," Daniel Bunn, the director of Global Projects at the nonpartisan Tax Foundation, told Business Insider of the European wealth tax experience.
He added that it became difficult for governments to justify the high administrative cost of enforcement as the rich were able to move assets and capital out of the country into lower-taxed jurisdictions, often within Europe." so dipshit, pick your wealth tax model and defend it. the fact that tax happy europe gave up on it should be very enlightening. the fact that you are going to paying taxes on an inherited item shows that you have thought about this about 12 seconds. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:24 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete how is that responsive to anything i just wrote and asked you? you're trying to shift the topic to wealth tax generally because you can't address the pointed questions i asked because your poast was retarded.
answer the two questions i asked before i engage you further:
(1) why did you say valuing illiquid assets is a problem with the wealth tax when illiquid assets are already subject to income tax, and are frequently used to compensate people? why is it easier to value an illiquid asset when received versus when it is held?
(2) what did you mean you used illiquid assets as a problem for the payment of wealth taxes? obviously the answer is you sell the asset. please see supra re: value is determined by what an asset would sell for, therefore any asset with value must have a market; limits on alienability to avoid tax sales can be worked around.
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that is literally the *ONLY* two things you mentioned. https://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&mc=87&forum_id=2#47252949
so please explain to me how that comment is not completely retarded? you asked me the questions and i answered. please show me the same courtesy rather than shifting the argument to something far broader i.e. the viability of a wealth tax generally. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:39 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression (1) illiquid wealth is private companies, real estate, expensive assets; illiquid income is--well, i'll let you say, but it won't be that (2) you don't make people sell the private business, the farm, the jet. when you brought up the newly inherited house, durr durr, as if that isn't a different situation after i read below. you're acting like an 8th grader. now defend your dumbass wealth tax. good fucking luck. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:54 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete bro i'm not trying to be a "sealclubber is retarded" guy when i say this but i literally cannot understand what you're saying here:
"(1) illiquid wealth is private companies, real estate, expensive assets; illiquid income is--well, i'll let you say, but it won't be that"
ok, so you didn't even finish that, and i don't even know what you're implying i think illiquid income is. anyway, if i received any of those things you listed as compensation i would have to pay income tax on it. there is no "difference" between illiquid assets as wealth and income. the only difference is when they are taxed.
"(2) you don't make people sell the private business, the farm, the jet. when you brought up the newly inherited house, durr durr, as if that isn't a different situation"
...yes, you do? what do you mean "you don't make?" we're talking about a hypothetical wealth tax policy. yes, selling assets to pay the tax is exactly the point?
you know, we already have a form of wealth tax in the property tax. and if you don't pay it they will put a lien on your house and eventually force it's sale.
a wealth tax is explicitly about taxing people's wealth in all it's form. of course that means goods and businesses. if you read this thread there are tons of examples of people discussing this. i'm not trying to be insulting here, but is your understanding of a wealth tax actually that it didn't anticipate the sale of assets? that's precisely the point... |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:28 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression in my first post of this branch, i ended with "the way you determine the best tax system is first to determine what your goals are. that will lead to a quagmire of conflicting goals, conflicting opinions, and disingenuous arguments" if your goal is to force people to sell their fucking assets to pay a wealth tax, well then you should have stated that. that's a goal for anti-american commies, but if that's your goal, that's your goal. i assumed it wasn't. property taxes are a form of a wealth tax, but they very different than a general wealth tax. one, they can be avoided by moving. two, the value of property is generally pretty easy to accomplish and appeals of the value of your property can be handled at the local level. valuing a business is far different. valuing other wealth is far different. (2) if your hypothetical wealth tax is designed to make people sell their assets then i wish you would have just stated that when i asked. i wouldn't have wasted time on the problems with a wealth tax, but on the stupidity of the goal |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:38 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete bro. not flame, the fact that the wealth tax targets wealth, and will sometimes require the sale of assets, is such a fundamental aspect of the policy that i have a hard to conceiving that you anyone could not realize it. it's such a fundamental part of it that i would feel like i'm insulting someone by stating it.
this is one of the first few times on xo i've literally been stunned. we call each other retards here but this is "but i did have breakfast this morning" shit. like, even if today was the first day you heard of the wealth tax, and just read a few comments in this tread... it's full of people talking about selling stuff. that's literally the entire point.
i'm stunned. i'm literally having trouble writing this. i can't believe this is real. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:49 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression you can be stunned all you want, but the problem is you not stating what your fucking goals are taxes are generaly not for punitive purposes. property taxes pay for local government and schools income taxes pay for .... too much wealth taxes are generally proposed as an alternative or supplement to pay for...too much, but not to punish the wealthy |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:55 AM Author: light mind-boggling trailer park yes, let's adopt the VAT. it's worked so well for the EU where the last big tech startup was Skype (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47251821) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:57 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete wow, you're so right. i guess the logical conclusion is that we should implement the policies of san francisco around the country as those policies have gestated the most tech start ups by far! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47251827) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 9:01 AM Author: light mind-boggling trailer park that's not the logical conclusion at all
point is that VAT is the ultimate GC tool to squelch entrepreneurship in the cradle |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 9:14 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete https://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5469795&mc=86&forum_id=2#47244699
ah, the typical tdnw conclusory statement of "no, those are two totally different things" with no explanation as to why.
ok, so if europe's lack of tech development is because of their policies, explain how it would be incorrect to adopt the policies of the most successful areas of entrepreneurship? which would mean importing san fran policy across the country.
have you considered that people are entrepreneurs *despite* government policy? there are ZERO people not developing tech apps because of the vat tax, stupid. you think there are a bunch of tech geniuses sitting in europe with the source could for a new fart app, but they won't release it because of the VAT? if anything, the VAT is favorable to tech companies because they are so affordable in development and the costs only start to roll in when they begin expanding.
people in tech go to tech hubs. do you think new york policy is what made it the financial center of the world? no, it's just where it happened to gestate. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 9:17 AM Author: light mind-boggling trailer park lol jfc (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47251858) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:06 PM Author: laughsome institution ur boistinker got blown tf out and all u can do is lol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252437) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:19 PM Author: light mind-boggling trailer park lol, yeah I got btfo by a wage cuck who knows nothing about the EU, or taxation, or entrepreneurship, or tech startups (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253439) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:28 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete https://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5469795&mc=86&forum_id=2#47244699
hey bro, this also seems like exactly the type of responsive i criticized you for (conclusory statement without argument and adhoms). why don't you just argue on the merits? should be easy if you're the expert you're implying you are. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:33 PM Author: light mind-boggling trailer park you’re so far off that I don’t think you are worth addressing
simple as that |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:42 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete bro you used to be ok, i think ukraine broke your brain. you need to step back from the bort for a bit. what are you getting out of it?
T: "EU has bad tech because of government policy."
G: "Wouldn't that mean we should be using the policy of places with the most tech start ups, which is San Francisco by far?"
T: "Two completely different things, idiot.
G: "Ok, explain why."
T: "You're too dumb to bother with it."
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like, what are you getting out of that interaction? if you didn't want to discuss how VAT stifles start ups why did you even make the comment? and why bother responding to me at all if you don't wish to discuss it?
it seems to me that a person would only do that if they don't have a cogent response, and are just lashing out with insults because they're emotional. because if you really wanted to pwn me you'd just explain why you're right rather than repeating "you're dumb." |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:11 PM Author: light mind-boggling trailer park for starters comparing SF taxation to EU taxation policy is just fucking retarded
the rest is just beyond the scope of this thread and even this board if you aren’t even doing basic thinking and reading about the topic
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:17 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete https://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5469795&mc=86&forum_id=2#47244699
ah, the typical tdnw conclusory statement of "no, those are two totally different things" with no explanation as to why. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:19 PM Author: light mind-boggling trailer park yes, I guess I need to explain why local musical taxation policy differs from a supranational one
lol |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:30 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete "all comparisons are invalid because everything is different! no, i will not explain why those differences are significant, or why one country's tax policy is a conclusive explanation for their country's lack of tech start ups, and why a the policy of another location has nothing to do with why it has so many start ups! they're different, ok? they're in different countries! incomparable! everything must be viewed in isolation because no two things are exactly alike!" (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253741) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:36 PM Author: light mind-boggling trailer park yawn (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253765) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:01 PM Author: talented massive pervert forum State your IQ. Why would other places adopting SF's policies turn them into tech hubs? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47254316) |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 3:41 AM Author: amethyst liquid oxygen address Lmao grow a beard (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47255418) |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 6:55 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete that's my point, stupid. it wouldn't. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47255503) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:42 PM Author: Curious rehab nowag lmao your ass just got blown the fuck out scurry along, ratboy |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:29 PM Author: Fishy gaped rigpig cruise ship This seems like a bizarre combo. Wealth taxes are notoriously difficult to assess, difficult to collect, and generate terrible incentives. VAT taxes are regressive and primarily burden the poor.
Funny stat: thanks largely to VATs, the USA’s tax system is more redistributive (taking wealth from the rich and giving it to the poor) than Europe’s.
https://archive.is/XSzJt |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:44 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle irate boistinker progressive income tax progressive capital gains tax counting deferred capital gains earned from work to be counted as income tax tax citizens and foreigners the same 50% tax on on wealth received from someone else (ie death) on all wealth 3x the national median net worth no special carve outs for certain groups elimination of interest expense as being a tax deduction no special tax status for trusts
hth |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:49 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete i do think there should be large carveouts for things like private businesses. especially capital intensive ones like farms. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47251803) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:50 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle irate boistinker makes sense. US should financially provide for certain industries and not others.
And US farmland/productivity is among the worst in the world, it certainly needs our help and is a big employer. It certainly is not a free cash grab for big food companies |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:54 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete idk why you're giving a sarcastic response. forcing family owned businesses to sell their operations to pay inheritance taxes would result in exactly the type of wealth consolidation you are trying to eliminate with your scheme.
50% tax on ALL wealth seems rather extreme anyway.
"sorry billy, you know that painting that has been in our family for generations? well, we have to sell it to the local holocaust museum because pap pap died." |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:59 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle irate boistinker you are a Jew right?
For 2022, the federal estate tax exemption was $12.06 million per individual or $24.12 million for a married couple, meaning that estates valued below these thresholds were not subject to federal estate tax. If an estate exceeded these amounts, the excess would be subject to a tax rate that started at 18% and could go up to 40%.
Sadly, its almost never enforced because every faggot now puts everything in a family trust. It is normal for capital to be recycled back to society rather than to stay in family hands for generations.
And yes, family fortunes should be shared back with society in which the fortunes were derived. For example the Steelers family owners had to sell a significant portion of the team in order to meet the tax bill when their Dad (owner) died. Sorry, the kids didn't get to keep all of the Steelers (worth multiple of billions). Very sad that society got a piece of that. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 9:07 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete right, i'm a jew because i'm pointing out how your policies would result in MASSIVE wealth consolidation and destroy small businesses.
you've proposed a tax on ALL wealth over 3x the median for fucks sake. you're basically saying that any business should be nationalized upon the death of the founder. wow, makes a lot of sense. also since there are no carve outs that pretty much means all of a family's heirlooms of significant value would be nationalized. oh, you know that wedding ring that's been in your family since the 1600s? sorry goy, it's uncle sam's now!
who do you suppose are going to be buying these businesses, stupid? other people that started from 0? it would have to be large corporations like blackrock, no other individual would be able to aside from a few entrepreneurs that made it. great, now zuck owns everything. good job, you're really shown me what a kike i am!
you're scheme is so retarded that not even the most radical wealth tax advocates would support it. it's just dumb. i tried to engage you in good faith to guide you in a friendly way to how this would be disasterous. as you can see above i am a wealth tax advocate.
you're proposing nationalizing all wealth. and, i guess that means there would have to be some redistribution mechanism, right? congratulations you fucking retard, you've invented communism. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 10:05 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle irate boistinker jesus ur dumb.
Nationalized = state run/owned.
Taxed = business owners have a tax liability that they meet by selling interesting in their business to OTHER private participates. I guess the Steelers are a state owned enterprise now?
"who do you suppose are going to be buying these businesses, stupid?" do you think taxing business owners at their death as they pass down wealth to other individuals would result in wealth being destoryed and therefore no one can buy? please explain how its wealth destruction instead of a wealth transfer, ie the wealth/capital remains in the society
"you're scheme is so retarded that not even the most radical wealth tax advocates would support it." lol. it was like this for MANY decades and in fact, for 'real' businesses the current death tax is 40%. i guess 50% is SO RETARDED and RACIAL. fine make it 40% friend. now all im saying is enforce the CURRENT law without Jewish trust/estate planning is games the system for the sole purpose to avoid taxes. that is def better for society and creates more wealth! long live the estate planner for he is the foundation our of society~!
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Date: January 5th, 2024 10:26 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete quote the whole thing, stupid:
"who do you suppose are going to be buying these businesses, stupid? other people that started from 0? it would have to be large corporations like blackrock, no other individual would be able to aside from a few entrepreneurs that made it."
where are the buyers getting their money from if they also started at 0?
it's de facto nationalization, retard. "oh no, we're not taking their business. we are simply forcing them to sell it and collecting the entire value." oh, totally different. and of course you blew right past what the government is going to do with all that new wealth. i'm sure it will distribute it to the citizens in a very fair way, and not dole it out to politically connected people! just like the soviets did!
you've invented an even more retarded version of communism.
and now you're just dropping it to 40%? wow, you've really put a lot of thought into this!
as i said, i'm a wealth tax advocate, and i support eliminating the estate planning bullshit. you keep trying to move the goalposts to that when i never argued against it. it's axiomatic anyway: oh, you mean a wealth tax regime will have to have safeguards against people sheltering their wealth from tax? WOW, GENIUS!
i'm pointing out how YOUR proposed 100% tax of everything 3x over median is retarded. there needs to be a progressive system and some carveouts. under your system every fucking old family restaurant would be have to sold to a restaurant conglomerate when the owner died. a wealth tax should be about taxing massive generational wealth, not obliterating small family businesses. that's the type of shit we want to encourage.
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:19 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle irate boistinker so you think taxing the rich will result in blackrock and other rich investor groups will own MORE? even though their tax bills will be huge?
hmmm ok. Let's tax the rich so that in return the rich will own more. makes sense jew! |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:24 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete non-answer. who buys it then if everyone is starting at 0? and how is all this new revenue supposed to be distributed in a way that won't go to the politically collected class?
no use talking about this. clearly you've put zero thought into this if you go from "tax 100%!" to "uh, 40% then?" |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:26 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle irate boistinker no one starts at 0. if a million/billionaire had only half given to them, they start out with millions of billions still, just less of them.
i provided a tax solution. i didnt provide what the govt should do with it in order to enhance society instead of making it a wealth transfer back to the elites (the ones who control govt).
i never said 100%. i said tax 50% and noted that today's rate already goes up to 40% so if you want to keep the 40%, im fine with that.
thanks for not following what i said and being easily confused |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:40 PM Author: titillating dun range regret No one has ever paid transfer tax on a ring unless they are a turbo-goy with an incredibly valuable ring and absurdly high tax ethics. You give those as gifts and assume they’re below the exemption amount. There’s no paper and no one cares. The IRS does not have agents roving around scrutinizing family jewelry gifts. Possibly in 1/1000 cases they check insurance paperwork and you pay the bill if you get caught.
Paintings are the same at the level of normal rich people and are a huge avenue for tax avoidance and money laundering as a result. Yes if you are a billionaire who buys $100M paintings in reported auctions your kids may have to sell some to pay taxes unless you have good lawyers. Oh the horror! |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:46 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete https://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&mc=64&forum_id=2#47252065
"it's axiomatic anyway: oh, you mean a wealth tax regime will have to have safeguards against people sheltering their wealth from tax? WOW, GENIUS!"
we're talking about what the hypothetical best tax schemes, how it would work the current system. i can't believe people are running in here saying "but people will find ways of hiding wealth" sd if "but people will find ways of hiding income" is some sort of argument against an income tax. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:00 PM Author: titillating dun range regret I don’t see the point in hypothesizing a tax system without regard for human behavior and actual enforcement. Big obvious documented productive wealth will be taxed under a wealth or transfer tax. Smaller sentimental family property will not, either because you write an exemption or people don’t pay and the government doesn’t enforce. I’m not going to make major tax system design choices because I’m worried about the imaginary problem of some rich kid selling family heirlooms to pay taxes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252634) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:23 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete i don't see where we disagree at all. i responded to OP specifically to say the type of exemptions you're talking about would be necessary under a regime of "50% tax for all + 100% tax for anything over 3x median wealth." median household wealth is like $200k which means under his regime the maximum inheritance would be $300k. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252744) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:54 PM Author: titillating dun range regret That’s implementation and getting caught up in it on a high level internet argument is a midwit tell. There’s no point in arguing with no data or analysis about whether the tax rate should be 40 or 50, the details of the jewelry exemption amount or how many acres of family farm should be protected. We should have a broadly effective wealth tax and design a reasonable base, exemptions and progressive rate structure. When you muddy the waters with imaginary problems it supports the status quo bullshit. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252866) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:15 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete WTF are you talking about man? as i said, my whole point in responding to this guy was saying a system that taxes practically all wealth with no carve outs is retarded. i'm not arguing with him or you about the finer details. again, we're saying the same thing. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252922) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:28 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle irate boistinker pretty sure i said on wealth that is multiple's above the median family networth.
so unless you are passing down $1m watches, this really isnt a concern |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:39 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete i interpreted "50% tax on on wealth received from someone else (ie death) on all wealth 3x the national median net worth" to mean "50% of on wealth under 3x the national media, 100% of wealth (all wealth) over 3x the national median." the use of "wealth" twice seemed to indicate two different brackets.
i can definitely see that you meant "50% of wealth over 3x", but i wonder why you didn't clear up this misreading when i keep repeating "a 100% tax of everything is retarded"
https://www.xoxohth.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&mc=118&forum_id=2#47252065
incidentally, i would actually support 100% wealth over a very high threshold. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:45 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle irate boistinker brother i work while doing xoxo. i glace and see words and then respond. if i miss anything, the other person is retarded/faggot.
such is life |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:56 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete same, a more careful reading of your op could have avoided this whole mess and rereading our spergout it's legit funny how we managed to talk past each other the whole time.
let's end this as rc fail faggots and FRIENDS, friend. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 3:48 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle irate boistinker do you pepper angus or do i?
twist, mine has already been peppered |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:56 AM Author: dark round eye This doesn’t really simplify the tax code (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47251824) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 9:00 AM Author: Razzle-dazzle irate boistinker Removing the Jewing of trusts and interest expense as deductions certainly makes it less Jewed/cheated.
What I said is better than 99% of other suggestions to make it more simple. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 9:04 AM Author: dark round eye The goal is to put the Big 4 and the tax bar out of business (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47251840) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:55 AM Author: racy godawful crotch Absolutely yes. Tax consumption, not work. Reduce womanly demand for (((things))). Fuck consumer culture. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47251819) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:03 PM Author: ocher becky (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252427) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 8:57 AM Author: Balding Dragon Nursing Home Pay no taxes. Government sort of just figures it out. Relies on wars and acquiring other countries’ wealth and treasure. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47251826) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:08 PM Author: Mauve naked lay stain (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252446) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 9:10 AM Author: tripping unhinged locale mental disorder Jew tax. Tax the assets and income of kikes 100% (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47251848) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 9:18 AM Author: Effete Crimson Love Of Her Life 5,000% "carbon tax" on judaic lifeforms (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47251860) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 10:09 AM Author: Glittery Lavender Mediation Each person should pay taxes according to their ability, and each person should only get in benefits according to their need. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252000) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:27 AM Author: Khaki seedy macaca VAT
This is Settled Science already |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:28 AM Author: Stubborn ladyboy turdskin Income tax rate of 101% but a huge number of complicated deductions and exclusions that only an army of lawyers can work through. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252306) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:34 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete it's amazing people are still lisping about "tax rates" when the tax filings of elites get leaked showing they people almost <><><>NOTAX<><><>. bezos got the motherfuckin' child care tax credit.
all tax rates (and income tax as it is now generally) do is bleed w-2 goy paypigs while their rat faced superiors pay an effective rate below their gardener.
can't wait for sealclubber or cow goes moo to show up and explain how "actually, that's a good thing." |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:35 AM Author: Khaki seedy macaca cr
and its working as intended hehe |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:38 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete any day now the gc establishment libs and gc establishment gop will come together and close all this abuse! right after they hire another army of IRS agents to make sure baristas are claiming all their cash tips. hehe! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252343) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:39 AM Author: exhilarant rough-skinned national french chef Taxing income is not the issue. Progressive rate structure is not the issue. The issue is all the dumbass deductions/credits that are a function of the political system, not inherent to the tax code. In that regard Trumps doubling of the standard deduction was great policy because it dumbed down the tax reporting process for a yuge number of people.
A wealth tax is going to be more lawyered up than the income tax. It's not unworkable, it's just like why try to reinvent the wheel to create something that isnt much of an improvement.
If you want to make it less complicated then the CR is probably stick with the income tax, stop giving tax credits except for kids and foreign income taxes paid, eliminate all itemized deductions except for charity, stop treating capital gains differently than other income, and create a single regime for taxing income of different types of non-individual "entity" taxpayers (instead of having sub K, J, C, etc). then lower all the rates so people have less incentive to try to dodge taxes. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:46 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete i agree with almost everything you say except that a wealth tax isn't much of an improvement. founders like thomas paine wanted a wealth tax. wealth begets more wealth and when you have enough of it you've created a brand new aristocracy. being born a vanderbilt is functionally no different than being born a lord in 1600s england. that's exactly what we were trying to get away from.
however, if you told me that we would close all the loopholes and tax capital gains at the same rate as income i would jump on it in a heartbeat. that would move the needle towards taxing wealth BIGLY. i think a wealth tax is a better idea but it's pretty far outside the overton window. the first step should definitely be cleaning up our existing tax regime to prevent abuse. but, that's kind of a pipe dream since we keep electing gc faggots. instead we'll just continue to fight about pronouns or whatever. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:58 AM Author: thriller pearly wagecucks Ending stepped up basis in concert with LTCG at income rates would do a lot more than a wealth tax. I don't like the idea of taxing unrealized gains or trying to price assets with thin markets where some Shaniqua in DC just makes up a valuation. That's where being born a Vanderbilt goes from being lucky to being a feudal lord. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252406) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:14 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete we already have that though considering valuing assets like IP leads to all sorts of income tax avoidance. both systems would be fraught with difficulties. but valuing an art collection seems a lot easier than making sure millions of people self-report their income correctly.
whether that would do "a lot more" than a wealth tax depends on the wealth tax. i mean, we could make the wealth tax "100% of all assets over $100m and also anyone with a drop of heeb blood get's thrown from a helicopter." that would do a lot.
anyway, i agree that pragmatically reforming our existing system is the best first step and will go far towards moving the needle towards taxing generational wealth. but this thread was more of a hypo about "what's the best?" nor "what should we do right now?" |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:09 PM Author: dark round eye How would the last one work? A corporation would be taxed the same as a partnership? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252451) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:35 PM Author: exhilarant rough-skinned national french chef Yeah. Why not? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252537) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:38 PM Author: dark round eye So public investors would be taxed on a pass through basis? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252547) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:50 PM Author: exhilarant rough-skinned national french chef The opposite, see my poast below (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252597) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:18 PM Author: cobalt mildly autistic pistol theatre interesting post. can you say more about
"create a single regime for taxing income of different types of non-individual "entity" taxpayers (instead of having sub K, J, C, etc)"
so no more LLCs, GP/LP, s-corp, c-corp etc? |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:50 PM Author: exhilarant rough-skinned national french chef All those entities would exist for state law purposes, just not be recognized as different forms of taxable entity for income tax purposes.
Like right now very different rules exist depend on the form you choose. If it's an LLC you're by default under sub K. If a state corporation, by default you're under sub C unless you can elect S. Maybe you know all this. It's not a rational system, because it grew up around changes to state law. For example, partnerships used to be pretty simple--just two guys doing business with no limitation on their personal liability--but states started evolving LPs, LLLPs, LLCs to make partnerships more like corporations. However, these vehicles are still taxed under the partnership rules which used to let you pass through tax benefits to partners even if they weren't personally at risk in the venture. This led to the creation of some of the most complex areas in the Code - SEE rules, at risk rules, active/passive limitations, etc.
I would suggest that if you are doing business under ANY state law entity - corp, LP, LLC, etc - it forms a separate taxable entity and would file its own return and pay its own tax. Give it a deduction for amounts distributes to owners to the extent of its income. This is actually kind of how Subchapter J works, and Subchapter J is a bastard version of Subchapter C. Obviously you gotta work out how you handle liquidations, mergers, etc. but at least work from one baseline set of principles instead of 3-4. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:53 PM Author: dark round eye 180 cause that would throw subchapter K in the trash. But how do we simplify the rest of the code applicable to corporations (eg no recognition rules, international rules like GILTI etc). (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252610) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:59 PM Author: exhilarant rough-skinned national french chef Fuck if I know that's above my pay grade brother. International especially. International will probably be a cluster fuck no matter what regime you choose.
As far as the no recognition rules I would keep the basic principle that capital contribution events do not result in recognition, but switch to the simpler Sub C/S concepts that force recognition of gain on in-kind liquidating distributions. Thats a lesser evil because the transferred basis rules in partnerships are the reason you have all the mixing bowl/disguised sale shit that is mega complicated.
I would have to think more about how to handle nonrecognition M&A transactions.
You would be pissing a whole lot of people off by making this change lol
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:04 PM Author: dark round eye Yea what were trying to avoid here is an army of Jew lawyers showing up to every transaction sneering "that's not a taxable event!". This is a huge dead weight loss on society (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252652) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:11 PM Author: exhilarant rough-skinned national french chef You could probably dumb M&A way down by just saying that common stock for common stock deals are nonrecognition, but anything other than common stock is boot and triggers gain recognition to the extent of the boot. Again it would piss people off and it is somewhat arbitrary but it would be simple. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252687) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:19 PM Author: dark round eye wut? This sounds like what we have already in subchapter C (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252728) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:58 PM Author: exhilarant rough-skinned national french chef It's not so strict, there's stuff that's not common stock that isn't considered boot. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252883) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 3:38 PM Author: titillating dun range regret Like 0.1% of America’s tax complexity and avoidance is people taking funky structured securities as tax-deferred M&A consideration. As a general matter stock deals are structured tax-free with not too much contortion and cash is taxable. Only retarded 3rd-year M&A lawyers are troubled by having to ask tax whether to form a new company and which direction the merger should go.
On the other hand, operating an arcane parallel partnership tax system with no enforcement and shitty anti-avoidance rules is a bad policy choice. The partnership rules have some huge gaps to take out cash tax-free or shift tax benefits or convert comp to capital gains. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 6:30 PM Author: dark round eye not a taxmo but seems like a lot of ink is spilled on whether a M&A transaction is tax free or not under sub C. I dont think this is accurate. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253959) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 6:45 PM Author: titillating dun range regret I’m well aware that tax lawyers run up the bill on the tax disclosure and opinion. But they know the answer before they start writing and most of it is the same in every deal unless the deal people cook up something bizarre. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253999) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 6:46 PM Author: exhilarant rough-skinned national french chef I tend to agree that sub chapter C as it relates to M&A is not the #1 target for reform. I don’t do much corp tax work, just have a working knowledge. I do much more Partnership and you are correct that it is the nightmare section, both because it affects more tax payers and in potential for abuse. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47254003) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:19 PM Author: titillating dun range regret Multinational businesses should be taxed by observing worldwide income and dividing among jurisdictions by actual sales to third parties. State income taxes already trend this way because it is easily observable, hard to manipulate, and lets companies put labor and property in the optimal locations rather than tax-motivated locations (then they fuck it up by competing with jobs/capex subsidies). Nobody will pass up profitable customers unless the jurisdiction gets way out of line on tax rate and you can do better selling your product elsewhere. And customers tend to be in real jurisdictions rather than tax havens, and everyone could agree that it’s fair for a Google to pay tax based on the customers who generate the profits rather than the creativity of tax lawyers who shuffle around papers about intangible assets.
If you also want to tax labor, property, consumption or individual investment returns, go nuts with those separate tax bases. But pretending that separate corporate entities in a group have independent economic reality and realize their own income is the root of most problems in international business income taxation. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:00 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete agreed. but i'd go ever further and just federalize all entity law.
it's an archaic system resulting in a race to the bottom where each states compete with each other to suck off corporate boards as much as possible. and it doesn't make any logical sense -- why should wyoming or delaware control the law for some company that exists and operates within a state thousands of miles away? the fact that 50 state governments can just churn out new forms of entities and complicate law even further is icing on the cake. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:05 PM Author: exhilarant rough-skinned national french chef Agree (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252659) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 9:16 PM Author: cobalt mildly autistic pistol theatre you're a tax lawyer, right? or some other kind of corp law? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47254642) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:44 AM Author: odious hall Every tax is an unnatural form of theft so every tax system "fails" in some way or other. The more complex it is the more likely you are to trap people in some way or other, and the fact that there are millions of lawyers and accountants is a feature, not a bug, because they pay taxes too. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252362) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:48 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete unnatural form of theft that has existed since currency was invented? what are you talking about? none of this is "natural." are you an anarchist or something? so long as we have government there has to be a method of funding it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252377) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:57 AM Author: odious hall Come on man go back to reddit with this shit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252400) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:00 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete bro your midwit "all tax is theft" would get a bunch of updoots on /r/libertarian.
or maybe you can explain to me what you meant by "unnatural" when taxes were on the fucking code of hammurabi? eli5 so my reddit pea brain can grasp it. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:02 PM Author: odious hall I have 25 IQ points on you, you're a fucking REDDITOR for god's sake. You are completely uninformed about economics and cannot employ basic logic or reasoning to understand the world around you so you come to retarded conclusions about things that you don't understand and then attack others from your stupid place of retarded ignorance (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252421) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:06 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete wow, devastating. but in that emotional outburst you failed to answer my question. care to try again champ? because it seems like you're just flailing when your midwit /r/ronpaul take was called out for what it is.
please don't attack me again, it goes against the non-aggression pact. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:43 PM Author: odious hall If I wanted to explain things to an uninformed smug idiot about something he's inexplicably overconfident and adversarial about I'd go to Reddit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252563) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:51 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete seems like it would have been far easier to explain what you meant rather than responding four times now with "YOU'RE DUMB!" i mean, it's just one sentence. what does "unnatural form of theft" mean? how is it different than "taxation is theft!", which is so low-iq that even /r/libertarian tries not to use it these days. what did you mean by "unnatural" anyway?
at least when tdnw got has asshole blown out above he bowed out with a "lol." far more embarrassing to flail around pathetically when you get called out. i'd recommend you blank your poasts but you're one of those retards that changes his sudo constantly because they'd get known as a more retarded version of sealclubber if they stuck around for long. cya later "fear porn tp." |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:11 PM Author: odious hall You haven't called anyone out, you're a mediocrity who doesn't really understand economics or politics or game theory or the realities of how the world works. You're not one level away from understanding anything, you're five levels and worse, you're an argumentative Dunning-Kruger case and think you're going to "call people out" which is what retards think being smart is like. This is why you thrive on Reddit. I wouldn't waste my time explaining anything to you for the same reason I wouldn't wrestle a pig. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252688) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:34 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete damn, explaining how "every tax is an unnatural form of theft" is different from the midwit libertarian "all taxation is theft" because of the mysterious use of "unnatural" must be a pretty difficult concept to explain. considering it's not worth your time to do so (even though you certainly have the ability to, right haha) but you do have the time to respond with lengthy emotional outbursts calling me stupid.
you'd think over a decade working in finance law for bulge bracket banks combined with degrees in finance and economics would have prepared me to understand. but, sadly, logging into reddit 15 years ago permanently handicapped me to the point i'll never understand. fuck man, one wrong move. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:49 AM Author: exciting crusty dopamine house wealth tax on assets over 200mm
flat tax of 10% on income
illegals are immediately deported, and i only mention this because they are a huge tax on actual americans and you asked about tax policy. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:18 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression i know you chose $200m without any basis, but explain your post hoc reasoning for $200m, please. also, what amount of tax on the wealth? |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:50 AM Author: Copper blood rage office Lawyers write the tax laws. Therefore, there will never be tax systems without lawyers. I remember the mock alarm over how Reagan's tax reform act of 1986 was going to destroy the legal and accounting professions. See how that worked out? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252380) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:54 AM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete crazy that the white collar professionals that told factory workers that shipping industry overseas would result in better QOL for everyone and that new jobs would magically sprout from the ground are also in support of the massively inefficient systems they navigate for a living. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252388) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 11:59 AM Author: Copper blood rage office We're going to be a thervith economy, they lisped. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252409) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:02 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete oh, what a valuable service i provide! a true prancing scholar that has created an impenetrable scheme of entities and accounting so that my private equity boss who makes a living turning retirement homes into old people storage warehouses can escape paying any tax for the money he earns providing such a valuable service to our society! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252422) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:03 PM Author: Copper blood rage office Everybody prance! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252430) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:08 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete you've probably answered this before -- but did you personally foresee how the globalization push would lead to where we are? now? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252447) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:47 PM Author: Copper blood rage office Not exactly. Have always worried about the effects of offshoring so much activity. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253078) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:10 PM Author: dark round eye That's why we need proles to write the tax laws (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252454) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:11 PM Author: useless sexy corn cake multi-billionaire Is your goal wealth redistribution or efficiency? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252458) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:12 PM Author: dark round eye See above. Goal is to eliminate the big 4 and the tax bar. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252465) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:19 PM Author: racy godawful crotch who will tally eurovision and oscar votes (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252489) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:45 PM Author: Hyperactive wrinkle alpha Flat tax + mandatory automated collection system. No "tax returns" or any of that shit. It is just like sales tax - automatically taken out/added in and you're done. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252835) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:48 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete how would this work for business owners, which are the ones employing all the tax avoidance wizardy. mandatory withholding already exists for w-2 people. they're not the problem. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252842) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:49 PM Author: thriller pearly wagecucks Mandatory withholding from all bank deposits lol start stuffing ur mattress with cash and gold bars (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252845) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:51 PM Author: Hyperactive wrinkle alpha You don't get a business license if you don't link into the payroll/tax system. Even this wouldn't be perfect for two reasons: 1. This would work for federal but states would still do their shit. 2. Cash.
Also, as someone with a W-2 who will soon do his taxes, it is still horrible. I'm still going to wrestle with investment/interest income not having withholding (though, I made like $10k in estimated tax payments to offset that). |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:06 PM Author: dark round eye How hard is it to save money to pay taxes on investment income? LMAO (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252903) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:10 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete corporations are already required to pay estimated taxes.
how could a system like this possibly be "automated"? it would require the system to know what the profit of a company will be by estimating what it's expenses will be. how could it do that? companies have drastically different margins. a payment processing company is receiving large volumes of money and paying almost all of it back out. whereas a law firm has few expenses beyond supplies and salaries. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 3:49 PM Author: titillating dun range regret Hmm how could we ever impose a tax on the receipts of a company? Sales taxes and VAT have never been tried!
If you don’t like the impact on low margin businesses, you either apply a lower rate or exemption to certain types of sales, or give refunds or offsets based on expense reporting (ie convert to an income tax but with a better collection mechanism). |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:08 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete proposing automatically withholding INCOME TAX from a company is complete different than a VAT TAX. VAT is an ADDITIONAL tax, no different than the myriad of other incidental taxes companies pay all the time. why don't you try to pwn me with excise taxes too?
really i think only someone completely unfamiliar with finance and accounting could type what you just did. how the fuck is a company supposed estimate it's annual expenses at any time in a given year? how the fuck could it be automated?
and your solution is a myriad of exemptions and refunds? wow, that'll go a long way towards eliminating big 4 accounting! now instead of companies preparing an annual tax return they'll have to do it every withholding period. what, monthly? government takes company's automated tax, kpmg files a refund with a bunch of hypothetical annual expenses, company gets it all refunded. sounds great. we'll need to hire like 50x more accountants.
the whole reason VAT is a good idea is because it's an additional tax and doesn't require calculating profit. honestly, only someone with 0 experience in corporate finance and accounting could a think that "why don't we do mandatory withholdings like w-2s?" would be a good solution, and then when challenged, lisp out "what about VAT?!?" |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 6:57 PM Author: titillating dun range regret You: “valuation of illiquid assets is no problem!”
Also you: “approximating the profit margin on something you regularly produce and sell is impossible!”
Businesses survive all kinds of goofy imprecise tax burdens. You could collect a simplified income tax in a manner that approximates the other taxes that actually exist in the world. And then you can decide how much you care about retroactively making the burden fair by letting businesses file for refunds when the final numbers come in. |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 4:12 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete how is this different than the mandatory payment of estimated taxes we already have? both systems would require people to adjust for estimated expenses. the system already uses computers for computation. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47256931) |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 3:51 PM Author: Hyperactive wrinkle alpha Running software that tallies that. Not really that hard if they know their revenue, payroll and expenses. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47256841) |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 3:55 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete "if they know the expenses"
this is tcq. if you could accurately predict Q4 profit in Q1 you'd be a billionaire stock speculator. |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 3:56 PM Author: Hyperactive wrinkle alpha Obviously you do not have to do it in advance. It can be done as soon as Q4 is over. For Q4 estimated tax you can pay it until 1/15. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47256861) |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 3:59 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete taxes are assessed on annual profit. what if you have an unexpected expense in Q4? or why not just say you "plan to" and don't because you'd rather invest the money during the year than prepaying it to uncle same?
the suggest is automated mandatory withholding. mandatory payment of estimated taxes already exists. i don't see how the system can be more streamlined than it already is (operating under the current tax regime). |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 4:02 PM Author: Hyperactive wrinkle alpha That's why your Q4 payment would be after Q4 is over. You don't pay it at the beginning of Q4, obviously.
"the suggest is automated mandatory withholding. mandatory payment of estimated taxes already exists. i don't see how the system can be more streamlined than it already is (operating under the current tax regime)."
The point is that the government would have software that just tabulates taxes instead of leaving it as a huge exercise. Of course, we should also simplify the tax code significantly and eliminate progressive taxation. We should also cut a bunch of spending to balance the budget. We could easily eliminate 70% of military spending and 98% of "foreign aid." |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 4:14 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete there are already programs that exist to calculate things for payment of estimated taxes. i don't see how it could be automated any more than it already is.
agree that the code could be simplified to avoid all of this, and i support that. along with drastically reduced spending. |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 4:15 PM Author: Hyperactive wrinkle alpha Not authoritative ones. 3rd party and if they screw up that's still on you. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47256947) |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 4:19 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete so you trust the government to develop this hypothetical automated program?
if there was a method to accurately account and automate corporate income tax i would be for it. what im saying is that i don't think it's possible under the current tax scheme. if it existed, id be down. |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 4:20 PM Author: Hyperactive wrinkle alpha Or they can develop a certification for 3rd party systems. I'm open to the details to make everyone comfortable. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47256971) |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 4:24 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete ok but we're still just speaking in hypotheticals. my argument isnt that it wouldnt be a good idea if it existed. its that i don't see how it could be done and doesn't currently exist.
if the argument is "corporations should be subject to automatically withholding revenue if a system is developed that can accurately estimate their tax burden", then im in agreement. but such a system doesn't exist. |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 4:26 PM Author: Hyperactive wrinkle alpha "if the argument is "corporations should be subject to automatically withholding revenue if a system is developed that can accurately estimate their tax burden", then im in agreement. but such a system doesn't exist."
No shit we're speaking in hypotheticals. The whole exercise is talking about how to improve the current setup. Sounds like we don't actually disagree on anything. |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 4:44 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete i don't see the value in proposing an impossible solution. i would also be for a policy that all women must felate me on demand.
i also don't see much value in automatic mandatory withholdings anyway. the issue isn't when taxes are paid. the only reason w2 paypigs have mandatory withholdings is because proles are too stupid to save. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:51 PM Author: useless sexy corn cake multi-billionaire In that case it would be a VAT and/or Flat Tax with no distinction between income type (eg cap gains) (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252851) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:13 PM Author: dark round eye I have no idea how VAT works TBH. is it really that simple from a compliance/gamesmanship perspective? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252915) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:33 PM Author: useless sexy corn cake multi-billionaire Technically yes but politicians always carve shit out for interest groups
Basically anytime something is sold in the supply chain, a flat X% tax is applied.
Example: farmer produces apple, sells apple to distributor (VAT). Distributor sells to grocery (VAT). Grocer sells to consumer (VAT).
It’s proportional to consumption, which the rich do at a higher amount and thus pay more in tax. Hard to game as the consequences are rather dire for any business that tries to evade it.
The negative to it is that it is easy for politicians to always incrementally increase it and if the wealthy do not consume they can stack cash. But the latter is only a concern if you value wealth distribution. That cash will ultimately be spent, be it this generation or the next few.
Most wealthy get around current income/cap gains tax regime by simply borrowing against assets and using those monies to consume - a VAT takes care of that.
If your goal is simplicity and removing the big 4 then you really can’t do better |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:44 PM Author: dark round eye 180. this seems like the obvious choice. most of the gamesmanship with the income tax seems to revolve around whether there's a realization event or not and whether something is deductible. getting rid of these concepts all together would be a huge blow against the rat faced man (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253063) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:50 PM Author: useless sexy corn cake multi-billionaire Yes, the existing tax code is literally Jewed loopholed to an absurd degree
You can see why they don’t want to simplify the tax code and lose all their ridiculous loopholes |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:54 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete the biggest problem with every tax system is that the people designing it are owned by gc. it's a particularly odious problem here because taxes are too hard for most people to understand. i see adult prole friends of my posting to facebook with shit like "god damn i got a raise but i'm in the next tax bracket so i'll wind up making less! >:(" if someone can't progressive taxation good luck getting them to understand the carried interest loop-hole.
and GOPe can just scream LOWER TAXES, LOWER TAXES and the proles will hoot and holler. establishment libs have it even easier because they can keep the same tax kikery around and still pretend they're working in the people's interest. trump absolutely pwned hillary on this and i wish more people would have realized how devasting it actually was. of course, it's in neither parties or the medias interest to point it out.
anyway, just another example of how all our problems would be solved if we got rid of politicians disloyal to the people and elected only those who would work in the people's interest. alas, we have pronouns and shit to fight about instead. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:35 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression "Most wealthy get around current income/cap gains tax regime by simply borrowing against assets and using those monies to consume" explain how this works, please |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:44 PM Author: useless sexy corn cake multi-billionaire You have $50M in stocks
You borrow $10M against it on margin, paying some interest rate to your brokerage.
You can spend said $10M without selling any stocks and needing to pay capital gains tax. As a bonus, the margin loan interest is also tax deductible
Jews win |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:00 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete let's not forget that because this "loan" is backed by substantial collateral and essentially risk-free for the bank and that the borrower is the owner of a very large company that gives you a lot of business, so this "loan"'s interest will be somewhere near the rate of inflation, making it an interest-free loan in real terms.
l'chaim! |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:08 PM Author: dark round eye The investment interest deductibility is limited to investment income, but otherwise yea this is a scam (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253668) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:44 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression so just like a home equity loan only with a different asset? this gets around the income/capital gains tax by not realizing income of the higher priced stocks, is that what this scheme is about? nothing too problematic about this except for the deductibilty of the interest. otherwise, you are just burning up some of your asset. when you actually sell the stock, you are no longer at risk of the sold stock falling in value i think the deductibility of a mortgage is bullshit, btw |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 5:47 PM Author: useless sexy corn cake multi-billionaire Yes Yes The point is you AREN’T burning up your asset. You can effectively defer cap gains forever. You do risk a margin call if your stock portfolio drops significantly
The point of this discussion is how to reduce loopholes. This is a giant one |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 6:02 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression well, i don't think the described strategy is necessarily a harmful loophole, especially if the everything is taken care of at the owner's death (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253878) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 6:16 PM Author: useless sexy corn cake multi-billionaire You can easily get around the estate tax (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253914) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 6:31 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression then design tax code to force capital gains to be paid on appreciating assets like this and get rid of that loophole
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Date: January 5th, 2024 6:36 PM Author: useless sexy corn cake multi-billionaire How would you go about forcing cap gains on unrealized gains?
Why are you acting as if this is a debate on the current tax code? |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 6:48 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression at death, the assets are valued and taxes are owed on the gains, if warranted. the title of the fucking thread is "Serious Q: What's the CR tax system?" why wouldn't debating aspects of the current tax code be expected to be part of the conversation? |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 6:56 PM Author: useless sexy corn cake multi-billionaire Transfer assets to a family limited partnership. Your heirs then run the partnership. No cap gains
All sorts of trusts as well
—
The underlying thought process is the current tax system is not credited, and what other tax systems would be |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 7:06 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression it's the transfer that is potentially the problem. on the other hand, perhaps no step up in basis is the fix, particularly if we are stuck with capital gains taxes what are the negatives of something like cain's 999? "In July 2011, an advisor suggested the name "the Optimal tax" for the Cain campaign's tax policy plan. Cain rejected the name, saying, "We're just going to call it what it is: 9–9–9 Plan."[3]
The proposal would introduce a 9% personal income tax, 9% federal sales tax, and 9% corporate tax to replace the country's current tax system." |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:14 PM Author: Stirring idiotic gaping In a perfect world there’d be fairly high marginal rates even at a lower level like 100k and rich people couldn’t find out a way to game the system, and then we’d have a functioning govt that spends the money on common goods like world class public spaces that don’t have homeless, healthcare, etc. But this is a pipe dream (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252472) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:22 PM Author: cobalt mildly autistic pistol theatre i've read this and still don't understand if it's a good idea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 12:29 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete it used to be a great idea. very simple way to do a wealth tax. but i don't think it's particularly effective today. wealth and income is no longer derived from the land in the way it used to be. i think it unfairly punishes businesses that need land to operate while ignoring that the most valuable companies out there don't actually need land at all.
AAPL, MSFT, GOOG could transition to complete WFH. or they could just keep things as they are -- how much of an expense are whatever offices they have? meanwhile, some middling property company is going to be paying way, way more tax than them.
and the employees of the companies could easily escape the tax. look at how many digital nomads there are already. people would just have a modest apartment in the US for when they come here and their estate would be in mexico. lots of people are already doing this even without a land value tax. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 3:41 PM Author: cobalt mildly autistic pistol theatre ty (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253269) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:03 PM Author: Fishy gaped rigpig cruise ship It’s a terrible idea that creates terrible incentives and generally only appeals to Reddit-level thinkers. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252648) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:13 PM Author: turquoise stimulating stead trump supporter some kind of LVT makes sense. but the georgist proposal of EVERYTHING being funded by a LVT is nuts. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252694) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:52 PM Author: useless sexy corn cake multi-billionaire Archaic in the digital age where production isn’t a function of real estate (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252859) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:07 PM Author: Fishy gaped rigpig cruise ship A flat rate income tax with capital gains at an equal level. If you really wanted to have some kind of wealth tax, keep capital gains calculations the way we have them now and don’t peg them to inflation. Give human beings the same pre-tax deductions as businesses so there isn’t a constant benefit to running a business over wage work. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252674) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:10 PM Author: turquoise stimulating stead trump supporter singapore's tax system
progressive income tax to 22%
corporate tax at 17%
7% VAT
no cap gains tax |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:12 PM Author: dark round eye How much (((gamesmanship))) is there in the Singapore system? What's the significance of eliminating the cap gains tax? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252691) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:14 PM Author: turquoise stimulating stead trump supporter there's far less because it's simpler.
no cap gains tax encourages investment and simplifies the tax system a lot. in the US, there's a shit ton of tax games played to defer/eliminate cap gains. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:30 PM Author: Razzle-dazzle irate boistinker SG is also a city. Lets compare countries to countries.
If you respond by saying SG is a country, you are retarded and clearly missed my point. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:10 PM Author: tan startling stage degenerate there is no good tax system, whatever u do ppl will be MAF and try to defraud
honestly the best way wld be to do underhanded taxes like how FICA tax is born 50% by the employer. how many ppl even realize this? they notice the other 50% that shows up on their paycheck as being deducted but no one really factors in that they are also losing out on the 50% born by the employer. u cld do lots of this shit, like with sales tax just furk that shit dont even have an end sales tax just do VAT for every level above and pre final sales double it for the final vendor
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:22 PM Author: Big famous landscape painting like 90% of proles prob have no idea that fica SS taxes stop at $160K (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252741) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:23 PM Author: tan startling stage degenerate most proles dont even realize half their income tax goes for DOD and endless kike nigga wars (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252745) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:25 PM Author: Fishy gaped rigpig cruise ship Most proles don’t pay income taxes. The only taxes they pay are sales taxes, which aren’t used to fund the DOD at all. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252761) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:26 PM Author: tan startling stage degenerate thats great jew (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252762) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:33 PM Author: Fishy gaped rigpig cruise ship That makes you more of a war-mongering Palestinian-genocider than the modal stars-and-bars waving trailer trash. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252792) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 2:43 PM Author: Lake Contagious Box Office Genital Piercing They pay into SS (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253060) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:10 PM Author: Big famous landscape painting they pay SS tax on the little bit of income they do have (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253396) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:29 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete i remember being IRATE i learned about this. also ljl that all the biggest companies are using 1099 slaves to avoid even paying that. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252770) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:31 PM Author: tan startling stage degenerate u can say imported turds here, its okay birdshit (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252775) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:35 PM Author: Nudist lodge keepsake machete sadly the jews have enslaved my fellow prole goys in this manner too. btw eating a sandwich from ubereats rn yum! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252802) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 1:45 PM Author: Hyperactive wrinkle alpha (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47252836) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 3:26 PM Author: jet juggernaut casino peasants provide a share of their production to the lord who owns their land each year (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253209) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 4:46 PM Author: cerise yarmulke voyeur Idk maybe a smaller flat tax combined with more luxury taxes on shit to get wealthier people to pay more without running business out of the country. Idk just spitballing (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47253571) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 6:56 PM Author: wonderful autistic whorehouse indirect expression a problem with "luxury taxes" is that they disincentivize the wealth to spend money most could consider that to be a negative and luxury items are not necessarily created by the wealthy most would consider punishing the cadillac line worker but not the chevy line worker to be nonsensical making it something far more luxury like a mega yacht doesn't change this analysis. a flat tax (flat sales tax) neither incentivizes nor disincentivizes. that seems a better policy at least until it's successfully argued why it's not. |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 6:50 PM Author: talented massive pervert forum Sales/consumption and estate taxes on larger estates or Ben Carson's 9-9-9 plan. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47254013) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 10:24 PM Author: Bistre aromatic stag film jew It was Herman Cain's 999 plan (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47254833) |
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Date: January 5th, 2024 10:24 PM Author: burgundy background story state death tax of 100% would solve so many of the country's problems (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47254836) |
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Date: January 6th, 2024 3:53 PM Author: Underhanded principal's office scourge upon the earth Feudal w a king of the same race who lives within feet of his subjects (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47256846) |
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Date: January 7th, 2024 9:42 AM Author: dark round eye Bump for DBG (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47259062) |
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Date: January 7th, 2024 9:46 AM Author: Bearded salmon cumskin Make ordinary income tax rates the same as long term capital gains rates (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5470944&forum_id=2#47259067) |