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Rate this idea for a novel (it's a psychological thriller)
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Date: August 14th, 2014 6:33 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish A man begins attending therapy sessions after he began to question a series of bad life choices. Mostly, the choices he made involved using drugs, alcohol, and sex as a coping mechanism and as a way to actively avoid reality. He was always careful, and no one who knew him would have any reason to suspect he had any sort of problem with substance abuse or addiction. However, the choices he had made coupled with recent life experiences have caused him to feel empty, hollow, etc. That's why he chose therapy: it's an outlet to explore these feelings in a constructive, rather than destructive, manner.
After a few sessions, the protagonist begins to suspect that he's smarter than the therapist and that psychotherapy, generally speaking, is bullshit. Experiences he had a few months later confirmed his suspicions; the protagonist thereafter begins to fear that the same group of individuals that controls the media, law, banking, and academia also controls psychotherapy and actively uses it to control the population and weed out those who challenge the system's stability.
When the protagonist realizes that he may be perceived as a threat to the stability and order they're trying to coerce the population into voluntarily adopting, he immediately knows he has a limited amount of time before his therapist becomes aware of his suspicions. This becomes a fight for his life: He knows what happens to people who challenge the system's stability--they become prisoners of psychopharmacology and are forever banned from pursuing careers that could potentially impact the public opinion.
I'm hoping that the novel would feel like a combination of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, Brave New World, and Mein Kampf. There won't be a happy ending and the protagonist will likely kill himself or meet an equally horrible demise, but it wouldn't be predictable or trite. He'd exhibit symptoms consistent with diagnoses of narcissistic personality disorder, obsessive compulsive personality disorder, avoidant personality disorder, and just a hint of histrionic personality disorder to give any eventual suicidal ideation some realism vis-a-vis peer-reviewed psychology research on personality disorders.
The protagonist would be someone like Patrick Bateman, but the reader would never have any definitive proof of his insanity. He'd be likable, personable, attractive, and successful; however, he would not be pursuing a passion or really be heading in any calculated direction. He might have an inheritance he's blowing through or might instead be working in an elite law firm; either way, it'd be something that provides an immediate appearance of success at the expense of future financial stability. That'd be one reason he engages in the vices that led to his initial therapy sessions. The reader would empathize with protagonist because of his desire for instant gratification and sympathize with him because of the personality disorders implicated by the ramifications of his actions and the emotions they cause.
The nefarious shadow-conspiracy trope is a compelling antagonist, provided that it not be interpreted as the delusional thoughts of someone who'd likely appear on Doomsday Preppers; the audience shouldn't be led to believe that the protagonist will immediately ready his bunker in preparation for a declaration of martial law once the New World Order ascends to power, reveals the Antichrist, etc. In fact, I believe the reader could find levity in the tacit suggestion that the Jews are behind some giant conspiracy to control the world, and the divide between people on this topic suggests that it could be a huge source of ambiguity: those who laugh when one asserts the Jews are taking over the world may perceive the protagonist to be a lunatic, whereas those who genuinely believe the Jews will enslave the goyim may perceive him to be completely sane.
It'd be fun and interesting to come really close to implying Zionist involvement in a giant New World Order conspiracy effected, primarily, by population control through psychotherapy and psychopharmacology. More than that, however, I'd like for the story to be a 100% accurate reflection of psychotherapy in America. I'd rely on practitioner guides and extensive research to ensure that even formally trained psychologists would have difficulty determining, with certainty, whether the protagonist is actually psychotic (in the medical sense of the word: someone who isn't living in reality).
The real goal is for the story to be able to stand on its own; the unreliable narrator trope, while nice, serves only as an approach to pathos. I want the audience to be left wondering whether the protagonist was sane or whether he was a total lunatic, and that's not a question I want anyone to be able to answer--not even formally-trained psychologists. That's why I'd focus a good amount on the psychological and behavioral aspects of the novel, but at no time will they get in the way of the story itself. It would simply build credibility for some of the more far-fetched plot twists that occur and putatively evidence the existence of a massive conspiracy.
[EDITED BASED ON FEEDBACK IN THIS THREAD] |
Date: August 14th, 2014 6:39 AM Author: awkward point how does it end? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125342) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 6:43 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish The protagonist kills himself, probably. It wouldn't be a happy ending, but he wouldn't die predictably. He'd exhibit symptoms consistent with a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder and obsessive compulsive personality disorder, and there'd be a dash of histrionic personality disorder to make suicide plausible albeit extremely unlikely. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125345) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 6:47 AM Author: awkward point so is his "realization" about the mind control conspiracy correct, or just a product of his mental health issues? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125349) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 6:48 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish that question would be left unanswered and I'd do enough research to ensure that even a formally-trained psychologist would have a difficult time answering it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125352) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 6:51 AM Author: awkward point So the gist is that the reader will be taken through a series of therapy sessions, and discover a conspiracy theory (about the treatment itself) that may or may not be true, because the narrator may or may not be 100% sane? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125353) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 6:55 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish Yeah, that's mostly correct. The therapy sessions would be a minor component; it's really his experiences elsewhere (that he discusses during sessions) that develop his conspiracy theory and that start the countdown to his demise (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125354) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 7:01 AM Author: awkward point Sounds like an interesting idea. Have you thought about the more generic storytelling elements yet? What are the narrator's goals? Why should the reader be rooting for him (is he a cool guy? loveable shlub? smart cynical guy?)? What obstacles stand in his way, and how will he overcome them? Is there a fleshed out antagonist, or just a nefarious shadow-conspiracy type of situation? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125358) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 7:12 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish The protagonist would be someone like Patrick Bateman, but the reader would never have any definitive proof of his insanity. He'd be likable, personable, attractive, and successful, but not pursuing a passion or really heading in any direction. He might have an inheritance he's blowing through or might instead be working in biglaw; either way, it'd be something that provides an immediate appearance of success at the expense of future financial stability. That'd be the reason he engages in the vices that lead to the initial therapy sessions. The reader would sympathize with him, because almost everyone can relate to the lure of instant gratification.
I think the nefarious shadow-conspiracy type situation is enough of an antagonist, and may even be a stretch. The last thing I want is for this to seem like an episode of Doomsday Preppers where the protagonist is readying his bunker in preparation for a declaration of martial law once the new world order is revealed. Implying the jews are in control could be the source of most ambiguity: it's funny to joke around about (implying the protagonist is a lunatic) but at the same time, many people genuinely believe this (implying the protagonist is sane). It'd just be a fun thing to come close to implying without actually getting there.
More than that, I'd like for the story to be a 100% accurate reflection of psychotherapy in America. I have a bunch of practitioner guides to personality disorders, including different medications to administer and whatnot. I think that a completely factual account of psychotherapy could actually boost the credibility of the more ridiculous conspiracy-related themes. |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 6:44 AM Author: supple indigo partner corner the thing about realizing it's a conspiracy seems a bit much unless the reading is supposed to be he's a lunatic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125346) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 6:48 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish the reading is supposed to make his sanity ambiguous, even to someone formally trained in psychology. I'd do enough research to ensure that his conspiracy theories, while objectively rational given his experiences and perceptions, remain ambiguously delusional. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125351) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 6:56 AM Author: supple indigo partner corner crying of lot 49 was good. similar thing if you could execute. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125356) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 6:58 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish I have no formal training in creative writing, but after reading some of George R.R. Martin's stuff, it became obvious that you don't have to be eloquent if you have a compelling story (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125357) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 7:07 AM Author: supple indigo partner corner read lot 49.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crying_of_Lot_49 |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 7:13 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish thanks, I'll check it out (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125365) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 9:26 PM Author: Demanding Death Wish extremely good read, thank you (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#27359450) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 7:44 AM Author: swollen laughsome house hissy fit First paragraph is solid. Conspiracy theory seems trite as fuck. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125410) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 7:50 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish thanks. I agree the conspiracy angle seems trite, which is why I want to approach it extremely delicately--as if it's the manifestation of a deep-seated personality disorder (think avoidant personality disorder) that causes the protagonist to blame someone else for his shortcomings. That's the ambiguous aspect of the story, too, because his experiences and perceptions logically support the existence of a giant conspiracy. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125417) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 8:06 AM Author: awkward point I think you should be really careful with the whole unreliable narrator thing. It's been done a million times, and it can be really easy to get bogged down in adding extraneous details and events that add to your "is he crazy or not" tug-of-war, but ultimately you forget to tell an interesting story. In general, people aren't going to want to read a novel that spends the entire time wrestling with basic concepts like "is the narrator crazy?" Keep in mind other popular examples of this idea (recent examples like American Psycho and Fight Club spring to mind) also told an interesting story and the narrators had a very clear, interesting point of view. What I'm saying is, don't forget to actually tell a story. Your book needs a plot. Unless you're a literary master man, don't attempt to write a novel where nothing really happens. Also take my advice with a grain of salt. I don't really like a lot of books that are considered by mainstream literary types to be masterpieces. I like books that tell a good story, and I really dig hacky genre fiction like sci-fi, fantasy, and horror. So, some might say my tastes skew a bit prolish. |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 8:20 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish I completely agree with you about prioritizing the story over its tropes (like the unreliable narrator). That's why George R.R. Martin has experienced tremendous success; he's more of a master storyteller than a literary genius. His stories are not particularly eloquent and don't cause the reader to think too much, but they offer non-stop and often unpredictable entertainment.
Balancing the extremes is crucial. I'd pretty much be gearing this toward Michael Crichton's audience, rather than the mainstream. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ga9F_iN4iI is an example of people I wouldn't expect to have any interest in this book... |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 8:32 AM Author: awkward point Yeah, just focus on the story, and I think if you can work in that psych stuff go for it, but I'd advise you to keep it to a minimum. I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about. There was a guy who made this long bitchy post on a creative writing forum where authors critique one another, focused on sci-fi/fantasy type stories. He was some kind of biologist STEM bro and he wrote a book and he was complaining about the feedback he got from his friends. He had designed this fantasy world in such detail that he actually populated it with unique animals and plants, the animals had migration patterns that he wrote into the story, there were shifting weather patterns, a unique solar system with strange planetary orbits that affected seasons, you get the idea. Basically all of his test-readers were bored to tears because he didn't focus on the story. He thought of it as a fun science-themed puzzle; he thought readers would enjoy deciphering the clues about the world that were scattered in the book, but really they just read like boring pointless details. In the end, your story should be one that you could potentially distill down and tell around a campfire and keep people interested. The setting isn't all that important. And even the narrator's internal mental and emotional states aren't important, if the story is boring. That's my opinion anyway. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26125462) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 4:22 PM Author: Demanding Death Wish I genuinely feel bad for the vaguely aspie/autistic STEM bros who come up with some intricate, brilliant plot device and truly believe their audiences will welcome them with open arms. That rarely happens outside of fanfic groups/circlejerks that operate as an exchange for hackneyed memes and tropes. I think that sort of novel would work well as a fanfic inspired by George R.R. Martin's or Suzanne Collins' work.
Thanks for the feedback. If I actively pursue this, I will make sure that the story can stand on its own, without this sort of psychological subterfuge. The unreliable narrator device would be used only to offer more of a spooky or what the fuck? feel to the story; it would be my approach to pathos and nothing else. |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 5:23 PM Author: insane coldplay fan I think it would be better if the narrator was a female character who is interested in your main character (or vice-versa) or his therapist or a rotation of characters who aren't the main one, or 3rd party omniscient.
Also write in present tense with short and punchy sentences, like Suzanne Collins who you mentioned, to avoid the story getting bogged down by psychotherapy terms and concepts |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 9:32 PM Author: Demanding Death Wish I really like the idea of writing it from the perspective of a woman interested in my main character; it would add an additional level of depth to the story without forcing it. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#27359491) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 5:24 PM Author: stubborn affirmative action rehab ditch everything after the first sentence of the second paragraph (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26128781) |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 8:06 PM Author: Demanding Death Wish I kind of like that idea. However, it feels like the main character would question the whole point of psychotherapy; i mean, what the fuck are they doing if it's all bullshit? is it really just a place for people to complain about their problems? that's where the ulterior motive seeds would be planted, and they'd grow into this maybe it's just a conspiracy and they're just trying to keep tabs on the population or something conspiracy theory. I don't mean to suggest it'd be a central theme; it'd never be expressly mentioned, either. elements of the story line, however, would support that conclusion. for example, a law could be passed requiring anyone who takes xanax/klonopin/valium/etc. to have a sticker on their driver's license (this would dissuade people from driving at all)
I like the idea of a dystopian society like 20 years from now where psychologists are the boots on the ground. they figure out what people are thinking, fearing, etc. and social media powerhouses subtly alter the message the population receives and everyone remains blissfully unaware.
it's almost like what happened with the word fag. in elementary school, we'd call everyone a fag; if you tried that today, you'd be crucified by the media. i think people underestimate the chilling effect that things like curated facebook news feeds have on free expression, because everyone is so concerned about keeping up the appearance.
obviously, these are all very loosely connected thoughts right now. but, i think it could turn into something cool. |
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Date: August 14th, 2014 8:08 PM Author: Lilac Market Foreskin i dunno man it kinda sounds like a flowers for algernon / martin eden remake or something (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#26129888) |
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Date: January 1st, 2015 1:02 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#27033731) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 9:27 PM Author: Violent halford lolol (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#27359458) |
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Date: February 20th, 2015 9:34 PM Author: Demanding Death Wish ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#27359505) |
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Date: July 12th, 2018 2:52 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#36410444) |
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Date: February 19th, 2022 1:37 AM Author: Demanding Death Wish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#43992683) |
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Date: November 8th, 2022 12:15 PM Author: Low-t temple (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#45456949) |
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Date: November 8th, 2022 2:29 PM Author: Demanding Death Wish (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=2644723&forum_id=2#45457889) |