\
  The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
BackRefresh Options Favorite

Europeans are so, so poor

Like exceptionally poor. Jfc. I just looked up my job in ...
garnet vibrant ladyboy
  05/11/24
Most are redditors too and love saying how guns are insane f...
soul-stirring mediation wrinkle
  05/11/24
american redditors love fantasizing about being european
drab box office
  05/13/24
Free college Thin women Walkable historic neighborhoods F...
Beady-eyed flickering ape
  05/11/24
Holy shit r u poasting from 1992????
soul-stirring mediation wrinkle
  05/11/24
The college part is true. I recently met a guy who's a med s...
Vigorous mexican station
  05/11/24
So it's not free...
Maniacal provocative church building regret
  05/11/24
Not fully free, but definitely affordable. It also takes int...
Vigorous mexican station
  05/11/24
that’s a lie
Soggy Business Firm
  05/11/24
Link?
Vigorous mexican station
  05/11/24
onus is on you
Soggy Business Firm
  05/11/24
link?
autistic 180 stage
  05/11/24
Lmfao. "Link to my unverifiable bullshit being false pl...
titillating trust fund theater stage
  05/12/24
u mean HIS bullshit or do you really believe that medical...
Soggy Business Firm
  05/12/24
medical school is free for the natives in a lot of European ...
opaque field
  05/12/24
link?
Soggy Business Firm
  05/12/24
It definitely is in Germany- all public universities are. Yo...
Mustard orchestra pit fat ankles
  05/12/24
https://www.rcsi.com/dublin/undergraduate/medicine/fees-and-...
opaque field
  05/13/24
https://www.meduniwien.ac.at/web/en/studies-further-educatio...
opaque field
  05/13/24
https://medschool.it/blog/compare-all-medical-schools-rankin...
opaque field
  05/13/24
Correct, I was agreeing with you
titillating trust fund theater stage
  05/12/24
you had me at thin women
cream library cumskin
  05/11/24
Driving is way better than walking. Are you retarded?
abnormal supple hall kitty cat
  05/12/24
...
lascivious black woman den
  05/11/24
We lost. Get over it.
slap-happy cheese-eating pit
  05/11/24
housing is a fraction of the price and sane labor laws keep ...
Nubile ultramarine nursing home old irish cottage
  05/11/24
"housing is a fraction of the price" This is so...
soul-stirring mediation wrinkle
  05/11/24
not in london and zurich, sure
Nubile ultramarine nursing home old irish cottage
  05/11/24
...
appetizing startling temple karate
  05/11/24
(guy who thinks salaries of €1-2k isn’t for cheap...
Soggy Business Firm
  05/11/24
Family leave, excellent public pensions, not having to pay $...
slap-happy cheese-eating pit
  05/11/24
Lmao so you vote Trump who opposes all of these things? ...
turquoise passionate candlestick maker
  05/11/24
We can’t have those things at this point.
slap-happy cheese-eating pit
  05/11/24
Cr so better to vote for the party that opposes all of it ;-...
turquoise passionate candlestick maker
  05/14/24
Lmao
Talented sanctuary fanboi
  05/11/24
There are basically no trailer parks in Germany. Anywhere. ...
Mustard orchestra pit fat ankles
  05/11/24
vast swaths of Eastern Germany are covered in Soviet era hou...
Soggy Business Firm
  05/11/24
Well, those are the relics of a non-German system - an histo...
Mustard orchestra pit fat ankles
  05/11/24
they actually took the top 2-3 floor off to make them last l...
Soggy Business Firm
  05/11/24
larger german cities are flooded with foreigners and are gen...
Heady ebony sandwich
  05/11/24
Now do Detroit and Baltimore.
Beady-eyed flickering ape
  05/11/24
right, but you can still white-flight your way out of those ...
Heady ebony sandwich
  05/11/24
A hidden advantage Germany has is far less affirmative actio...
Mustard orchestra pit fat ankles
  05/11/24
The entire West is headed to oblivion. Germany will get ther...
Mustard orchestra pit fat ankles
  05/11/24
...
Diverse Cowardly Lettuce Clown
  05/11/24
Don't those look cute from the outside, but on the inside it...
charismatic chestnut stead
  05/11/24
Most educated people seem to make around 70-100k. People at ...
flushed impressive national
  05/11/24
Lmao no, much lower
Soggy Business Firm
  05/11/24
There's also less stigma and fewer negative consequences to ...
Beady-eyed flickering ape
  05/11/24
in europe there is a much clearer divide between the haves a...
Swashbuckling love of her life meetinghouse
  05/11/24
"theres no point to working hard or striving there"...
Nubile ultramarine nursing home old irish cottage
  05/11/24
...
histrionic patrolman
  05/11/24
yo nigger you are mad brown!
histrionic patrolman
  05/12/24
They have high speed rail tho
Floppy sooty skinny woman senate
  05/11/24
They would do better as Russian chattel slaves. They will be...
big harsh doctorate
  05/11/24
Tell me where in euro (in areas that actually like to live a...
Glittery parlor
  05/12/24
the cities in the Flanders part of Belgium seem affordable
opaque field
  05/12/24
U might as well buy in nebraska.. just saw a spam add "...
Glittery parlor
  05/14/24
The UK literally has a lower GDP per capita than fucking Mis...
garnet vibrant ladyboy
  05/12/24
Every European i meet seems rich
ivory bonkers menage
  05/12/24
rich inner life or rich financially?
Stirring Quadroon
  05/12/24
Being rich is always a mark of corruption and malice. Euros ...
Splenetic burgundy crackhouse cuckold
  05/12/24
Read the wiki summary and that movie looks 180 The closes...
know-it-all principal's office ceo
  05/12/24
they will always have Culture over the rest of the world-- e...
lime impertinent gunner foreskin
  05/14/24


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:10 PM
Author: garnet vibrant ladyboy

Like exceptionally poor. Jfc.

I just looked up my job in Berlin and it’s like 1/3 the total comp of the US.

Eurozone GDP has had 0% growth since 2008. In the same period, USA gdp grew by 100%

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654156)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:13 PM
Author: soul-stirring mediation wrinkle

Most are redditors too and love saying how guns are insane for normal citizens to own

https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/rh8qvp/quick_acting_14_year_old_shoots_robber_inside/

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654166)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 13th, 2024 7:51 AM
Author: drab box office

american redditors love fantasizing about being european

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47657206)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:15 PM
Author: Beady-eyed flickering ape

Free college

Thin women

Walkable historic neighborhoods

Free public schools you can actually send your kids to

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654174)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:18 PM
Author: soul-stirring mediation wrinkle

Holy shit r u poasting from 1992????

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654181)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:20 PM
Author: Vigorous mexican station

The college part is true. I recently met a guy who's a med student in Italy. He pays $800 USD per year.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654190)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:26 PM
Author: Maniacal provocative church building regret

So it's not free...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654207)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:47 PM
Author: Vigorous mexican station

Not fully free, but definitely affordable. It also takes into consideration your income and expenses. There's a number called ISEE that calculates your expenses. You input that number into the tuition calculator and it'll give you the total.

So for a lolyer making 250k per year, it appears that the tuition would be around 3k/yr. Don't quote me on this, I did this research quickly and could be wrong, but you can also look for yourself: https://simulatore.tasse.unito.it/?isee=30600&tempopienoparziale=1&anno=1&requisito=1&contributo_si_no=0&contributo_si_no=1&CFU=0



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654270)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:36 PM
Author: Soggy Business Firm

that’s a lie

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654231)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:47 PM
Author: Vigorous mexican station

Link?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654271)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:55 PM
Author: Soggy Business Firm

onus is on you

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654283)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 6:07 PM
Author: autistic 180 stage

link?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654316)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 2:55 PM
Author: titillating trust fund theater stage

Lmfao. "Link to my unverifiable bullshit being false please"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656005)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 3:04 PM
Author: Soggy Business Firm

u mean HIS bullshit

or do you really believe that medical school in Italy is $100 a month?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656035)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 3:15 PM
Author: opaque field

medical school is free for the natives in a lot of European countries, so yes, it's possible

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656081)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 7:42 PM
Author: Soggy Business Firm

link?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656604)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 9:40 PM
Author: Mustard orchestra pit fat ankles

It definitely is in Germany- all public universities are. You can take my word for it or not.

Medical school for Germans starts right out of high school- there's no "premed" or "prelaw" for that matter. You need a near-perfect Abitur score to be allowed to study medicine, though.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656822)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 13th, 2024 3:49 AM
Author: opaque field

https://www.rcsi.com/dublin/undergraduate/medicine/fees-and-funding

Ireland has tuition-free medical school for not only Irish but all EU + UK + Switzerland citizens, though they have to pay approx. 3k euros per year in "student fees"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47657139)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 13th, 2024 3:53 AM
Author: opaque field

https://www.meduniwien.ac.at/web/en/studies-further-education/application-admission/tuition-fees/

"There is essentially a contribution obligation for all students at Austrian universities. The level of tuition fees is

€ 363.36 per semester for EU citizens or

€ 726.72 per semester for third country nationals.

In addition to relevant tuition fees, the Students Union contribution shall be paid, including insurance, in an amount of € 24.70.

Students shall therefore pay a total amount of € 388.06 and € 751.42 per semester."

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47657140)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 13th, 2024 4:01 AM
Author: opaque field

https://medschool.it/blog/compare-all-medical-schools-rankings/

About halfway down the page are tuition figures for about 15 Italian medical schools, they are scaled for income and range from essentially free to a few thousand euros a year. A couple schools top out at less than 2000 euros per year

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47657141)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 7:40 PM
Author: titillating trust fund theater stage

Correct, I was agreeing with you

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656598)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 7:41 PM
Author: cream library cumskin

you had me at thin women

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654502)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 2:38 PM
Author: abnormal supple hall kitty cat

Driving is way better than walking. Are you retarded?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47655960)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:22 PM
Author: lascivious black woman den



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654194)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:25 PM
Author: slap-happy cheese-eating pit

We lost. Get over it.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654205)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:32 PM
Author: Nubile ultramarine nursing home old irish cottage

housing is a fraction of the price and sane labor laws keep their people from being treated like cheap horses in ways that actually matter (such as hours of work per week). it's 180.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654219)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:34 PM
Author: soul-stirring mediation wrinkle

"housing is a fraction of the price"

This is so wrong it's laughable

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654224)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:38 PM
Author: Nubile ultramarine nursing home old irish cottage

not in london and zurich, sure

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654236)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:58 PM
Author: appetizing startling temple karate



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654289)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:35 PM
Author: Soggy Business Firm

(guy who thinks salaries of €1-2k isn’t for cheap horses)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654226)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:35 PM
Author: slap-happy cheese-eating pit

Family leave, excellent public pensions, not having to pay $600/mo for garbage health insurance

It’s frankly not even close anymore.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654227)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:44 PM
Author: turquoise passionate candlestick maker

Lmao so you vote Trump who opposes all of these things?

Cons are retards.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654259)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:56 PM
Author: slap-happy cheese-eating pit

We can’t have those things at this point.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654285)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 14th, 2024 6:38 PM
Author: turquoise passionate candlestick maker

Cr so better to vote for the party that opposes all of it ;-)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47661744)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:40 PM
Author: Talented sanctuary fanboi

Lmao

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654245)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:39 PM
Author: Mustard orchestra pit fat ankles

There are basically no trailer parks in Germany. Anywhere.

The vast majority of small towns or villages in Germany look like idyllic upper-scale towns in America.

So it depends on how you measure wealth and poverty.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654240)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:41 PM
Author: Soggy Business Firm

vast swaths of Eastern Germany are covered in Soviet era housing blocks, just dressed up a bit

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654248)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:58 PM
Author: Mustard orchestra pit fat ankles

Well, those are the relics of a non-German system - an historical aberration. It's not rational to dynamite a functional Soviet-era building if it can be fixed up.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654288)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 6:02 PM
Author: Soggy Business Firm

they actually took the top 2-3 floor off to make them last longer

but my point was that they are the functional equivalent and house the same quality of human

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654299)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:43 PM
Author: Heady ebony sandwich

larger german cities are flooded with foreigners and are genuinely unpleasant/somewhat dangerous if you aren't also a nafri or an african. even the oldschool turks are being displaced by younger and more aggressive newcomers. much of frankfurt is already lost.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654253)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:44 PM
Author: Beady-eyed flickering ape

Now do Detroit and Baltimore.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654260)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:48 PM
Author: Heady ebony sandwich

right, but you can still white-flight your way out of those places. germany has been building 'migrant centers' even in smaller towns. western europe's demography looks increasingly shitty, especially since there is no mechanism or will to stop the boats full of illegals coming up from africa.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654274)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 6:13 PM
Author: Mustard orchestra pit fat ankles

A hidden advantage Germany has is far less affirmative action. Meaning that they can fill positions important to their society with white Germans. I've posted videos of police academies in Germany with the entire training class of 100 or so being lily white.

As far as migrants, they are trying to bribe the North African countries to stop them there, with some success.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654319)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 5:59 PM
Author: Mustard orchestra pit fat ankles

The entire West is headed to oblivion. Germany will get there later than America, mainly because its white people tend to be smarter than America's.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654293)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 9:00 PM
Author: Diverse Cowardly Lettuce Clown



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654625)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 9:35 PM
Author: charismatic chestnut stead

Don't those look cute from the outside, but on the inside its like orignial to the fucking 1700s?

Think of how shitty stuff is in the US that dates back to the 90s?

There's a reason those old homes are selling for $1 but trialer homes at least go for like $50,000 now...



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654677)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 6:01 PM
Author: flushed impressive national

Most educated people seem to make around 70-100k. People at Microsoft, AWS, Google quite a bit more. Sure that sounds poor to Americans but stuff is cheaper. Groceries and eating out and drinking are legit like 1/3 as much

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654298)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 6:02 PM
Author: Soggy Business Firm

Lmao no, much lower

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654302)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 6:06 PM
Author: Beady-eyed flickering ape

There's also less stigma and fewer negative consequences to making less money.

In America you have to make a lot of money but then have to burn much of it on escaping blacks and Mexicans and paying for college, housing, etc that Euros get for free.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654314)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 7:03 PM
Author: Swashbuckling love of her life meetinghouse

in europe there is a much clearer divide between the haves and the have nots, because youre either old money or not. you cant maek it by inventing My Pillow or whatever. theres no point to working hard or striving there

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654393)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 7:45 PM
Author: Nubile ultramarine nursing home old irish cottage

"theres no point to working hard or striving there"

sounds like america but without the pretense that living to maximize wealth will make you happy

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654505)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 10:26 PM
Author: histrionic patrolman



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654757)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 2:38 PM
Author: histrionic patrolman

yo nigger you are mad brown!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47655963)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 7:43 PM
Author: Floppy sooty skinny woman senate

They have high speed rail tho

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654503)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 11th, 2024 9:41 PM
Author: big harsh doctorate

They would do better as Russian chattel slaves. They will be turned into said chattel slaves. All will be right with the world.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47654692)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 2:46 PM
Author: Glittery parlor

Tell me where in euro (in areas that actually like to live and visit more than once) is housing actually cheap? Even shitholes like tallinn and budapest have $1mln Apts in city centre...

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47655986)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 3:03 PM
Author: opaque field

the cities in the Flanders part of Belgium seem affordable

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656033)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 14th, 2024 10:57 AM
Author: Glittery parlor

U might as well buy in nebraska.. just saw a spam add "buy luxury apt in badalona, starting at 567k". Yeah miami prices and probably built with paper thin walls.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47660346)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 9:29 PM
Author: garnet vibrant ladyboy

The UK literally has a lower GDP per capita than fucking Mississippi. lol.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656801)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 9:35 PM
Author: ivory bonkers menage

Every European i meet seems rich

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656813)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 9:36 PM
Author: Stirring Quadroon

rich inner life or rich financially?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656816)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 9:54 PM
Author: Splenetic burgundy crackhouse cuckold

Being rich is always a mark of corruption and malice. Euros have been through so much more shit than the Amerimutts, but the US likes to pretend that their trajectory will be somehow different. We can basically look at Europe to see what the culmination of all our naive and insipid values will be imo.

There was a great Danish Film called Speak No Evil released in 2022. It was one of the darkest nastiest movies I’ve ever seen. Really got you right in the soul like a great work of art should. It made me realize that nothing like that could ever be produced/financed in the US. Whatever their faults, Euros know that Life is Fundamentally Meaningless.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656836)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 12th, 2024 10:51 PM
Author: know-it-all principal's office ceo

Read the wiki summary and that movie looks 180

The closest we get is The Strangers

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47656954)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 14th, 2024 10:59 AM
Author: lime impertinent gunner foreskin

they will always have Culture over the rest of the world-- especially materialistic and shallow America

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5527581&forum_id=2#47660353)