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Anyone else know guys who turned super beta/lib after marriage and kids?

Been catching up with an old friend the past few days who ma...
Lemon chest-beating theatre
  05/09/24
Ive noticed the same thing. It's really weird and depressing...
boyish disturbing base dingle berry
  05/09/24
...
light histrionic heaven
  05/10/24
I don't really know anyone
Vibrant navy volcanic crater state
  05/09/24
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Misanthropic obsidian kitty cat
  05/09/24
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Buck-toothed point skinny woman
  05/09/24
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elite purple location mexican
  05/10/24
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clear dashing resort boltzmann
  05/10/24
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Bisexual chrome alpha house
  05/10/24
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Internet-worthy aggressive macaca hospital
  05/14/24
I've noticed this too. Frankly it's hard to be an independen...
fantasy-prone famous landscape painting
  05/09/24
...
boyish disturbing base dingle berry
  05/09/24
yeah, completely agreed i think it's actually Rational of...
Lemon chest-beating theatre
  05/09/24
...
aromatic bright reading party hall
  05/09/24
...
Dead amethyst double fault brunch
  05/10/24
daniel tosh
violet cowardly indian lodge ratface
  05/09/24
I hope that faggot dies
Bisexual chrome alpha house
  05/10/24
They were always lame and just pretending to get themselves ...
khaki kitty
  05/09/24
...
Buck-toothed point skinny woman
  05/09/24
cr
boyish disturbing base dingle berry
  05/09/24
he's pretty smart, and very successful in his professional f...
Buck-toothed point skinny woman
  05/09/24
nigga got longhoused
fragrant senate
  05/09/24
...
Lemon chest-beating theatre
  05/09/24
...
aromatic bright reading party hall
  05/09/24
...
elite purple location mexican
  05/10/24
...
Bisexual chrome alpha house
  05/10/24
Is he purely a PC gamer? Any Consoles?
pearly lay partner
  05/09/24
...
Bearded Brass Cuckold Trailer Park
  05/10/24
Not after having kids, but yes after having a dog and no kid...
Jet-lagged rehab french chef
  05/10/24
...
Passionate selfie forum
  05/10/24
most american "men" esp birdshits are beta as shit...
Mahogany talented parlor mediation
  05/10/24
I will arm wrestle you any day I bet you have no grip str...
Hyperactive ladyboy
  05/10/24
Lol indian "men" are the most dominated cucks when...
Passionate selfie forum
  05/10/24
I red pilled all my bros and told them to keep their bitches...
Hyperactive ladyboy
  05/10/24
What do you do to keep bitches in check?
Balding Area Potus
  05/10/24
Cq
Passionate selfie forum
  05/10/24
Make her make money for you on a webcam site - Andrew Tate h...
Chocolate bateful goyim new version
  05/10/24
Be alpha It’s not a behavioral program, it’s ...
Hyperactive ladyboy
  05/14/24
OP, how do you square this with voters becoming much more Re...
Balding Area Potus
  05/10/24
1. i would guess that pattern doesn't hold true in our socie...
Lemon chest-beating theatre
  05/10/24
honestly never seen this at all, of my friend group the unma...
motley headpube antidepressant drug
  05/10/24
interesting. i have overwhelmingly seen the pattern fall the...
Lemon chest-beating theatre
  05/10/24
yeah I believe your estimation of this individual guy, but e...
motley headpube antidepressant drug
  05/10/24
Hmmmm I don’t think you can trick me with this wishy w...
Lemon chest-beating theatre
  05/10/24
Yes good friend from HS was right wing and pretty based thro...
Hateful vengeful sanctuary
  05/10/24
...
boyish disturbing base dingle berry
  05/10/24
Divorced conservative friend married a leftist and became PW...
magenta spectacular parlour son of senegal
  05/10/24
...
boyish disturbing base dingle berry
  05/10/24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSMM6z8_kxg
Garnet corner chad
  05/10/24
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magenta spectacular parlour son of senegal
  05/10/24
yes, my older brother. he's like not even sentient anymor...
Garnet corner chad
  05/10/24
"spineless cuck king that just bobbles his head" ...
fantasy-prone famous landscape painting
  05/10/24
you lose all your life force after marriage. also you said l...
scarlet bearded native dragon
  05/10/24
Yeah I think you’re right. I think guys who are natura...
Lemon chest-beating theatre
  05/10/24
getting into one of those last minute millennial marriages s...
scarlet bearded native dragon
  05/10/24
Completely agreed. I can’t believe I was still serious...
Lemon chest-beating theatre
  05/10/24
The point of marriage is to have a family and kids Your f...
Bisexual chrome alpha house
  05/10/24
...
Passionate selfie forum
  05/14/24
...
Chocolate bateful goyim new version
  05/14/24
None of my friends have become libfags. I can’t relate...
Silver Soggy Shrine Deer Antler
  05/10/24
Instances like this are literally 100% due to testosterone l...
dark hairraiser patrolman
  05/10/24
i'm not buying it consensus is a mix of it's due to the w...
Lemon chest-beating theatre
  05/14/24
https://twitter.com/GoySuperstar/status/1790170042551922970
Lemon chest-beating theatre
  05/14/24
Wow this chinese guy has a lot to say!
Chocolate bateful goyim new version
  05/14/24


Poast new message in this thread



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 7:10 PM
Author: Lemon chest-beating theatre

Been catching up with an old friend the past few days who married a shrew older than him (he's late 30s she's 40) and they had their first kid a couple years ago

He was never a "super based" "right wing bro" or anything - he's a quintessential cowgod Engineer guy. But he was always reasonably masculine, logical, practical, libertarian-leaning, typical white guy with 130+ IQ (he's pretty smart, and very successful in his professional field)

He has morphed into more or less a typical normie lib NPC. Really worked up on lib media faux-issues, upset about Trump (???), and most noteworthy has become totally "beta" in his worldview. Incredibly focused on "safety" in all contexts. Weirdly aggressively dismissive of any unorthodox opinions and views in the same sort of inappropriately self-righteous way that urbanite libs are, even on topics he doesn't know anything about

I've run into the same phenomenon with several guys I've known in my life: after they've gotten married and had kids, they've warped into a normie lib NPC beta. Some worse than others. But it's a complete psychological, almost spiritual shift in orientation, not some kind of limited "political views" thing

I'm familiar with The Science on men's T levels collapsing post-kids, but I feel like this can't possibly be a comprehensive explanation. It really feels like their whole psychological and spiritual mindset shifts to an orientation where they are unconsciously trying to be as normie and "safe" as possible to socially fit in and thus protect their wife and kids. Like some kind of animal that sheds its previous existence as an individual male actor in the world in favor of becoming a eusocial insect under the protection of the hive

I dunno. It's really weird and striking. And I've pretty much lost all respect for him. He's just not an interesting or "real" person anymore, and people who are not interesting and have no character of their own are not people

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649251)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:14 PM
Author: boyish disturbing base dingle berry

Ive noticed the same thing. It's really weird and depressing.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649381)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 10:40 AM
Author: light histrionic heaven



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650379)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:16 PM
Author: Vibrant navy volcanic crater state

I don't really know anyone

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649384)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:41 PM
Author: Misanthropic obsidian kitty cat



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649423)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:45 PM
Author: Buck-toothed point skinny woman



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649430)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 12:36 AM
Author: elite purple location mexican



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649823)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 10:46 AM
Author: clear dashing resort boltzmann



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650387)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 3:56 PM
Author: Bisexual chrome alpha house



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47651334)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 14th, 2024 11:34 AM
Author: Internet-worthy aggressive macaca hospital



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47660452)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:22 PM
Author: fantasy-prone famous landscape painting

I've noticed this too. Frankly it's hard to be an independent thinker in 2024. Women control the dating market and men are subconsciously subservient if they find one willing to marry and have kids with them; work is a politically correct minefield and you always have to Say The Right Things Or Else; the Algorithms feed you exactly what they want you to see and vigorously remove content they deem Dangerous; and Successful Men are most often those who are rewarded for playing by these rules, not the ones that buck them. So there is a financial incentive to stay in line.

With this backdrop and the stresses of life as you reach 40 men just go into auto pilot at some point.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649397)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:23 PM
Author: boyish disturbing base dingle berry



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649400)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 9:25 PM
Author: Lemon chest-beating theatre

yeah, completely agreed

i think it's actually Rational of them to act this way. it's just depressing and gross

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649512)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 11:57 PM
Author: aromatic bright reading party hall



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649759)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 4:13 PM
Author: Dead amethyst double fault brunch



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47651392)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:32 PM
Author: violet cowardly indian lodge ratface

daniel tosh

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649411)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 3:57 PM
Author: Bisexual chrome alpha house

I hope that faggot dies

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47651336)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:42 PM
Author: khaki kitty

They were always lame and just pretending to get themselves a seat on the marriage throne so they can go on pretending that they have a self and a purpose. This is what all “normal” people do afaict.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649424)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:45 PM
Author: Buck-toothed point skinny woman



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649431)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:50 PM
Author: boyish disturbing base dingle berry

cr

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649442)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:46 PM
Author: Buck-toothed point skinny woman

he's pretty smart, and very successful in his professional field tp

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649435)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:51 PM
Author: fragrant senate

nigga got longhoused

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649443)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 9:25 PM
Author: Lemon chest-beating theatre



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649514)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 11:57 PM
Author: aromatic bright reading party hall



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649760)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 12:36 AM
Author: elite purple location mexican



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649824)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 3:56 PM
Author: Bisexual chrome alpha house



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47651335)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 9th, 2024 8:51 PM
Author: pearly lay partner

Is he purely a PC gamer? Any Consoles?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649444)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 12:56 AM
Author: Bearded Brass Cuckold Trailer Park



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649854)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 12:59 AM
Author: Jet-lagged rehab french chef

Not after having kids, but yes after having a dog and no kids

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649858)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 1:59 AM
Author: Passionate selfie forum



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649909)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 2:08 AM
Author: Mahogany talented parlor mediation

most american "men" esp birdshits are beta as shit, from day one they are under the control of jews and feminazis, its truly wild to see

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649914)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 2:14 AM
Author: Hyperactive ladyboy

I will arm wrestle you any day

I bet you have no grip strength and weak arms

Weak ass turdshit bitch

Fight me

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649916)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 5:15 AM
Author: Passionate selfie forum

Lol indian "men" are the most dominated cucks when they get married not even close

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649979)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 2:11 AM
Author: Hyperactive ladyboy

I red pilled all my bros and told them to keep their bitches in check

If you have cucky beta friends that says something about you

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47649915)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 7:28 AM
Author: Balding Area Potus

What do you do to keep bitches in check?

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650043)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 8:20 AM
Author: Passionate selfie forum

Cq

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650077)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 12:31 PM
Author: Chocolate bateful goyim new version

Make her make money for you on a webcam site - Andrew Tate has a good video series about this called "Hustler's University"

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650624)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 14th, 2024 11:34 AM
Author: Hyperactive ladyboy

Be alpha

It’s not a behavioral program, it’s a way of being

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47660450)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 7:27 AM
Author: Balding Area Potus

OP, how do you square this with voters becoming much more Republican on average after getting married? Not saying you're wrong.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650040)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 10:43 AM
Author: Lemon chest-beating theatre

1. i would guess that pattern doesn't hold true in our society anymore. that statistical trend is an artifact of the past. our society has changed in enormous ways in the past decade

2. this kind of change really isn't a partisan "politics" thing. i may not have explained it very well in my post, but for example, this individual in particular still strongly *sees himself* as a "conservative" guy and he lives in a very "conservative" area of the country. the change has been to his fundamental capital n Nature. this does line up with him (unconsciously?) beginning to toe the normielib party line on various things, but i believe that's downstream from the fundamental psychological and spiritual shift that's occurring first and separately

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650383)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 9:31 AM
Author: motley headpube antidepressant drug

honestly never seen this at all, of my friend group the unmarrieds are the milady reddit lib types - although I think there's a chicken/egg thing here.

also remember that what you're describing in OP is a totally subjective judgment which certain people are primed to believe is true and certain people are primed to believe is false so ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650175)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 10:35 AM
Author: Lemon chest-beating theatre

interesting. i have overwhelmingly seen the pattern fall the way i describe, even anecdotally from others i know

i mean, ok bro, lol. the complete change in demeanor, personality, speech and physiological patterns, etc is impossible to deny. i'm a smart guy i'm not imagining this. and from the looks of this thread i'm not alone

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650368)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 10:46 AM
Author: motley headpube antidepressant drug

yeah I believe your estimation of this individual guy, but extrapolating that out to a rule or pattern is where the subjectivity comes in

in other words, we as humans are very susceptible to tossing out inconvenient data points etc, when we make these kinds of informal estimations.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650388)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 1:13 PM
Author: Lemon chest-beating theatre

Hmmmm I don’t think you can trick me with this wishy washy faux scientific language friend

Actually I think guys like this are in fact going through a real transformation into cucked betatude and it’s as simple as that. Why and how is another question, but it’s definitely real

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650793)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 12:19 PM
Author: Hateful vengeful sanctuary

Yes good friend from HS was right wing and pretty based through college. Very high IQ engineer/math guy. He moved to lib city and met lib gf, now wife, and turned into an utter lib beta. He defers to his wife on everything and went vegan because she wanted to. She's the type who will lecture you on how bad meat is for the environment one minute and talk about her upcoming trip to Bali the next (20hr+ flight that probably offsets an entire lifetime of eating vegan). Even when we're alone together now he'll bring up lib talking points like colonialism and white privilege. It's brutal.

He's not the only one but def the worst

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650574)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 12:30 PM
Author: boyish disturbing base dingle berry



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650618)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 12:24 PM
Author: magenta spectacular parlour son of senegal

Divorced conservative friend married a leftist and became PW to the point that he underwent a conversion to super progressivism. She fucked and sucked his brains out.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650593)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 12:36 PM
Author: boyish disturbing base dingle berry



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650638)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 3:54 PM
Author: Garnet corner chad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSMM6z8_kxg

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47651325)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 5:44 PM
Author: magenta spectacular parlour son of senegal



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47651683)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 12:36 PM
Author: Garnet corner chad

yes, my older brother.

he's like not even sentient anymore -- literally no autonomy, agency or free will/volition

my sister-in-law turned him into a spineless cuck king that just bobbles his head like a cucked out bobblehead during seasonal family outings or thanksgiving (or rather, when my sister-in-law allows him because her "social life" is basically a black hole)

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650640)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 12:37 PM
Author: fantasy-prone famous landscape painting

"spineless cuck king that just bobbles his head"

nice of TDNW to introduce his younger brother to the site

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650648)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 12:37 PM
Author: scarlet bearded native dragon

you lose all your life force after marriage. also you said late 30s. lots of doods over that time period became lib for one reason or another even without getting married. it was painful to watch but it wasnt entirely marriage.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650646)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 1:11 PM
Author: Lemon chest-beating theatre

Yeah I think you’re right. I think guys who are naturally beta end up doubling down on that identity when they get older because their unconscious minds can no longer draw on the plausible deniability that they might actually be somewhat alpha due to the strength and vitality of youth

When you’re a feeble weak screencucked dork with a fugly wife, you enter turbo cope mode where your brain is desperately searching for a justification for why the way you are is actually good and desirable

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650779)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 1:25 PM
Author: scarlet bearded native dragon

getting into one of those last minute millennial marriages seems legitimately traumatizing. its better to be a frog boiled in water and have some control over the women's insanity over a long period of time. sort of like compound interest it adds up. i think a lot of those dudes are just in it for the kids and write themselves off as martyrs. well see what unfolds.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650836)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 1:37 PM
Author: Lemon chest-beating theatre

Completely agreed. I can’t believe I was still seriously considering marriage and kids as recently as a year ago

Actually insane

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650879)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 1:40 PM
Author: Bisexual chrome alpha house

The point of marriage is to have a family and kids

Your fixation on feelings and self image is obscenely gay and jewish

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47650903)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 14th, 2024 7:24 AM
Author: Passionate selfie forum



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47659876)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 14th, 2024 11:01 AM
Author: Chocolate bateful goyim new version



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47660359)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 3:50 PM
Author: Silver Soggy Shrine Deer Antler

None of my friends have become libfags. I can’t relate to any of this.

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47651312)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 10th, 2024 6:37 PM
Author: dark hairraiser patrolman

Instances like this are literally 100% due to testosterone levels and nothing else

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47651780)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 14th, 2024 10:54 AM
Author: Lemon chest-beating theatre

i'm not buying it

consensus is a mix of it's due to the wife and the guy was always intrinsically a beta loser but it took a while to come to the surface

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47660334)



Reply Favorite

Date: May 14th, 2024 10:53 AM
Author: Lemon chest-beating theatre

https://twitter.com/GoySuperstar/status/1790170042551922970

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47660330)



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Date: May 14th, 2024 11:00 AM
Author: Chocolate bateful goyim new version

Wow this chinese guy has a lot to say!

(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5526951&forum_id=2#47660357)