The most prestigious law school admissions discussion board in the world.
|
 |
 
|
Crim appeals lawyer taking Qs
Poast new message in this thread
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:30 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534524) |
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:31 PM Author: nude chinaman For the state or the criminals? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534527) |
 |
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:32 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: For the criminals, but I get paid by the state. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534531) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:32 PM Author: nude chinaman How much do you get paid?
Have you ever gotten a full body sensual massage or gone to one of those Asian massage parlors? |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:36 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: $130/hr, except murders and sex crime are $140
No |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:36 PM Author: nude chinaman Ever get rock hard reviewing the record of sex crime stuff?
What’s your annual income? |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:42 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I can't say I haven't. Then when I start thinking about who the people involved are, it goes away quickly. The perps and victims are mostly blacks and latinos, neither of which are attractive to me.
$250-300K. |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:44 PM Author: nude chinaman That's not bad, do you just get assigned cases by the state and never have to have any client interaction? How'd you get into this line of work? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534579) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:52 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I get "offered" cases, and I can accept or decline them depending on how busy I already am. I can also ask them for a new case if I'm slow. There's always plenty of cases out there.
I have the same professional duties to my clients like any other lawyer, criminal or not, would. I interpret that to mean that I have to keep them informed and answer basic questions in writing. Nothing in the rules that I have to answer their phone calls and listen to them blab incoherently, or that I have to write lengthy letters in response to their annoying letters. I limit client interaction to the extent necessary to satisfy my professional duties and make 95% of them not so mad at me that they file a bar complaint.
I'm former biglaw. I did some criminal appellate stuff in biglaw, and realized that criminal is so much more interesting than the typical "complex commercial litigation" boring as fuck cases. |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:53 PM Author: nude chinaman where can i apply? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534605) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:59 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Are you a CA lawyer? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534620) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:05 PM Author: nude chinaman no but i could easily fly out and pass the bar. do i need to be based there? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534646) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:07 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: No, you don't. But it may be very hard to get on the panels if you're newly admitted, don't live there, don't have CA crim experience, and don't have appellate experience. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534659) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:11 PM Author: nude chinaman what if i say im homeless and/or transgender? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534674) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:32 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: It will probably help! (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534744) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:02 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) how much does the state scrutinize your billing? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534635) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:12 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: A ton. The billing is a total headache.
Any work needs to billed to one of 24 different categories of tasks -- client comms, reading the record, opening brief, reply brief, reading the gov's brief, etc. And each category has guidelines. And you have to write an explanation if you go above the guidelines. There's a 100 page "claims manual" setting forth all this crap.
They nickel and dime you like crazy, but after a while you learn how to justify your time and say the right things to get all or most of your claimed time approved. |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:16 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) so at this point for you is it essentially like biglaw where your experience enables you to do those tasks in a fraction of the time but you bill whatever you know will be considered reasonable? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534695) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:30 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: What I meant was that I know what to write to explain over-guideline time. For example, the guideline for client comms is 5.0, and you've got to justify anything above that. So if I spend more time, I know that if I claim 10 hours, I need to write out that I write the client x letters and he wrote me y letters and he was very actively involved in his case and the case had complex procedure to explain to him. I can't just make up the number of letters involved because there's a paper trail for that.
Padding is funny because the standard is how long a reasonably experienced attorney would spend. Would a reasonably experienced attorney be able to do shit in a fraction of the time of the guidelines? That's the beancounter's job to figure out, not mine. |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:49 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) well the standard is "how many hours you spent" and not "how long would a reasonable attorney have spent" like how mechanics bill for the job. unless things work differently here. i was just wondering how easy it is to get away with padding when the one paying the bills is the state rather than a client. seems like the answer is "even easier", which is 180. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534788) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:10 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Right, it's not an auto mechanic standard. More precisely, the standard is "how many hours you actually spent but we reserve the right to chop your actual hours down based on what we think a reasonably experienced atty would have spent."
The beancounters really scrutinize your claims because they themselves get scrutinized, but they want you to get paid for your time so you just have to know how to say the right things and explain yourself well. But they still end up screwing you over sometimes. Any padding you can do might get eliminated by getting dinged on some other line-item that they're strict about. |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:16 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) but if you wrote an appeal for issue X that took 8 hours of research and happened to get an appeal that essentially mirrored that, no beancounter is gonna be like "hey asshole i know that took you less than 8 hours since you just researched the same shit yesterday"? you can pretty safely bill the 8 hour auto mechanic rate per biglaw "bill what you think it should reasonably take" rather than "what it actually took." (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534898) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:35 PM Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, have you considered having AI go over your bills to make them look better? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534747) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:43 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I'm not sure how I'd use AI. I don't actually need to itemize my time by date. There's an online portal and each of the 24 categories requires the number of hours and you have an option to add a comment. The comment is supposed to a brief overall explanation of why you billed a lot, not that you worked 2.3 hours on 1/1 doing this, 0.8 hours on 1/2 doing that, etc. It's usually something simple like "Issue II in the opening brief was very complex because it required significant original legal research on [novel issue], and required multi-part issue drafting on the merits and a detailed prejudice analysis."
How do you think I'd be able to use AI in that respect? I'm not really sure. |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:46 PM Author: Historical American 180 ten dollar raise (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534777) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:52 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: The appellate defense bar lobbied hard for a $40 increase and the Legislature gave us $10. Since 2016, it's gone up $25, from 105/115 to 130/140. Totally pathetic. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534798) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:31 PM Author: bloody benchod bastard are you the same guy who's done these questions as before (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534529) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:32 PM Author: Gay Grandpa Don't ruin it (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534534) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:32 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534535) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 3:36 PM Author: Cum Bar King of Siliguri (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534551) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:05 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) crimlaw appeals seems very interesting as the cases seem to involve much more scholarship than crimlaw trial shit which seems mostly about herding retarded witnesses, cops, etc. what % of your time do you think involves pure research, writing, arguments, etc. versus all the administrative bullshit that comes with criminals? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534648) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:24 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: There's way more scholarship than criminal trial shit. It's always funny when I review a record and see the DA, defense attorney and judge -- all who are retards who went to mcgeorge or USD or whatever -- discussing some scholarly sweet that came their away.
I'd say 80% of my time is scholarship -- reading records, thinking about arguments, writing, etc. Though I'm not often raising the most complex scholarly issues of first impression. A lot of the issues I raise are routine ones I can kind of C&P, or fact-based issues that don't involve complex legal concepts and are purely judgment calls based on well known law. So it's not like I'm dealing with intense scholarship all the time.
The other 20% of the time is various administrative bullshit. Dealing with the claims process to get paid (see above) is a huge hassle. Then there's keeping track of deadlines, saving filings, filling out routine forms like extension requests and oral argument requests, etc. -- I don't have a secretary so I've got to do all this myself. And then there's client commns which as I said above I really try to keep to a minimum because they're annoying.
And then there is a plenty of annoying "business" time from running my own firm that wastes time and you need to be careful about bc the consequences are bad if you fuck up -- annual registration w the state for the S corp, renewing the CA law corp registration, paying myself on the payroll, keeping track of the books, etc. |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:51 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) sounds like a great gig. i'm jealous. i've always loved the scholarly side of crimlaw. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534793) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:00 PM Author: luis navidad (luis) Any tips for becoming a more scholarly and slightly less retarded trial lawyer ? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534833) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:26 PM Author: nude chinaman Ever come across the work of luis? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534726) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:32 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I'm looking forward to that day. I've had several cases from his county. I think he's just starting to get into the higher level cases, and I mostly do the higher level cases so maybe in the future I'll get one of his. He's also in a small county so there are relatively few appeals from that county so the odds aren't great. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534743) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:36 PM Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, On average out of 1,000 criminal appeals, how many new trials? outright reversals with dismissal? |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:50 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: By outright reversal with dismissal, I assume you mean EVERY count in the case. I've been doing this for 10+ years, and it's literally NEVER happened to me. I've got counts thrown out here and there that either make no or minimal impact on the sentence.
New trials, if we're talking about on every count in the case or on the most significant counts in the case, I think it's happened to me 2-3 times in 10+ years. Again, I get new trials here and there on insignificant counts -- that the prosecution probably won't even bother retrying.
I win resentencings for my clients quite a bit. The sentencing laws are very technical and the judges are idiots and often botch sentencing by not dotting their i's and crossing their t's correctly, and those are good issues from an appellate perspective since they're purely legal issues.
Though, in most cases, the guys probably go back for resentencing and end up with the same sentence. |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:21 PM Author: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, tyft (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534920) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:22 PM Author: Historical American (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534924) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:43 PM Author: Historical American Have you ever gotten someone off who was clearly extremely guilty but you found a loophole or a technicality that invalidated the conviction like in the movies?
Ever gotten someone off due to a jury violation? |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:47 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) 99.9999999% people being tried and convicted are factually guilty. if OP has won a single appeal the answer to #1 is certainly yes. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534782) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:47 PM Author: VoteRepublican (A true Chad!! where's your gf/wifew?) does he get rated on his ability to win or it dont matter since hes public contractor (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534784) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:50 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) in my jx they certainly consider competency with contract lawyers a great deal, which doesn't necessarily boil down to wins and losses though. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534791) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:56 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: The panel administrators don't look at W's and L's. the best attorneys would all be batting .001 or so if that were the case.
They care more about scholarship than W's and L's. |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:54 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I've never got anyone off on a technicality, but I've won retrials in a few cases on technicalities. People don't just walk free in 99.9999% of the cases. The remedy is almost always a retrial. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534806) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:56 PM Author: Historical American So you blow up the original conviction, then go to retrial, and you've won on retrial due to some technicality, and let a murderer back on the streets? And did you pop champagne to celebrate when they let Darnell walk out that door? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534820) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 4:58 PM Author: nude gunner (gunneratttt) this is such a midwit conception of the way criminal justice works. i can't believe people come to a lawyer bort and spout shit like this. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534828) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:01 PM Author: Historical American Let me cook (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534838) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:00 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: You seem to have an agenda, but I'll answer you diplomatically. I wouldn't be handling any retrial. It would go back to the public defender. In the vast majority of retrials following reversal on appeal, the DA is going to win again.
You're watching too much TV/movies. Murderous Darnells aren't going free on technicalities. |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:03 PM Author: Historical American So let me get this straight, you don't even really deal in technicalities. You find errors in the material facts and evidence and/or argue your scholarly philosophical stuff before the judge. If you're persuasive Darnell gets a retrial and usually the DA slams it shut on him, but in some instances the defense is successful upon retrial. I think what you're saying is that anyone you would get retrial for who actually came back and won is materially innocent on the merits. Is that correct? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534845) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:13 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Every word of your post is loaded and I have no idea what you're even asking. Can you please rephase your questions. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534885) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:16 PM Author: Historical American Ok you said that when you "win" at what you do it triggers a retrial most of the time. Is that a fair statement? If so, on what merits or basis do you typically get a guy a chance to go to trial again? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534899) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:17 PM Author: nigger kike He said even when he wins retrials aren’t common at all (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534906) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:20 PM Author: Historical American He said winning at retrial isn't common too. So only a tiny percentage of doods are getting off. Original question was any of these doods who were released upon winning retrial we're they innocent or guilty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534917) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:19 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I've also said that in 10+ yrs, I've won a client a retrial on all or the most significant counts in like 2-3 cases TOTAL. It's really rare.
I don't want to give specifics because reversals of convictions are rare enough that some doobs could find it on westlaw if I say too much. |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:21 PM Author: Historical American Gotcha. So at most in 10 years you maybe got 2-3 people off ever? (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534921) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:00 PM Author: Historical American Was Rubin "The Hurricane" Carter guilty of the triple homicide and simply a victim of racist cops planting evidence or did some shitlib NJ judge simply toss the case to get famous and win liberal brownie points?
I go back and forth on this one. Could go either way. What's suspicious though besides the fact that Carter beat the shit out of one of his female lawyers is that the judge offered no detailed explanation of why the case was tossed. He just said a racism was performed, this is bunk. No retrial either they just let him out. |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:16 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: I saw the movie as a teenager and don't remember the details. My basic memory/instinct is that he did the murder, but I have no idea if I'm right. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534903) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:17 PM Author: Historical American Same. I've looked into it many times. There are a lot of clues though that he was guilty. (http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=5813512&forum_id=2.#49534905) |
|
Date: December 23rd, 2025 5:24 PM Author: .,:,;,..,;.,::,..,:,.,,,,;.,::,..,:,.,.: Times were different then. Cops don't need to cheat nowadays as much as they did back then. There's so much forensic evidence at the scene of the crime, DNA and fingerprints. Plus there are cell phone towers and surveillance cameras everywhere.
It's VERY hard to get away with murder nowadays, and the cops don't need to coerce witnesses and beat confessions out of people. |